D.C. hospital fires 11 nurses, 5 staffers for snowstorm absences

[HipChick]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/27/AR2010022703793.html

I don't get it with employers..

I was forced to take a vacation days for not being able to make it into work during back to back snowstorms(there was no real need for me to actually be there, I can work remotely if need be)...when I did try to make it into work, I ended up getting into a wreck, sustained about 8K damage to my car, and still suffering from the effects of the impact to my shoulder,arm and wrist..

[Captain Hilts]

1. I read that this morning. Stunning. nt

[Warpy]

3. I remember being told to call the cops if the snow was that bad

and they'd send a garbage truck or gravel truck over to give me a ride in to work.

It's odd that they'd fire someone who reported to work remotely, though.

[havocmom]

48. weren't officials on the radio telling hospital employees NOT to come to work

Seem to recall that in the past blizzard. If you were at work, you stayed at work. If you were at home, they announced that you should stay.

Sorta puts people in a lose/lose situation when police and city officials say stay in and employers fire you for doing that.

[Warpy]

57. We were told to call the cops

and that we'd have to come in to spell staff that had been working nonstop as soon as transportation could get us there.

It was never an issue for me because I lived in the city. If the T was down, I just slogged on in on foot. I do know nurses who lived in the burbs who did arrive via garbage truck, though.

[havocmom]

69. No, I mean just recently in D.C. Heard that on the news, they told people to stay home

even hospital personnel.

[Odin2005]

2. We are not people in the minds of the elites, just "human resources" to be exploited.

"Human Resources" is one word I would love to see purged from the language.

[MindPilot]

70. The more recent term is "human capital"

even worse.

[Joe the Revelator]

4. Thats part of the deal nurses take when they take that job....

My mom is an ER nurse and has been for 27 years. While there isn't much snow where she lives, she has had to make herself available during hurricanes. Same thing for my father who was a firefighter. During times of natural disaster, it is imperative to not let the medical system breakdown.

[laughingliberal]

8. Really? We agree to superhuman feats?

Yes, all hospitals have disaster preparedness with instructions on where to report and when during natural disasters but I was never of the opinion I was considered to get there if it was impossible. The city I started out in fully expects to be leveled by an earthquake at some point. I'm pretty sure I would not have been fired if I was under the rubble in my home.

I worked during many snow storms where I was one of the few who showed up. I don't recall my colleagues who were unable to make it in being fired.

[Joe the Revelator]

9. If you're alpha team, your job is to be there

If that means coming in before the storm, then that is what you do. If that means arraigning to be driven in by your neighbors 4x4 then that is what you do. What you don't do is skirt your duties because it snowed in the Northeast.

[laughingliberal]

12. Interesting that the article notes that no other hospitals in the area fired workers who did not

make it in. I, especially, find the mention of the long term RN who is 57 being fired interesting. Nope! I worked in the hospital hell holes long enough to know they found a way to weed out some staff to increase the work load of others and decrease their labor costs on the backs of those who are left.

I never saw one RN fired due to not being able to make it during a life threatening storm. As evil as the people I worked for were they still did say we were not expected to risk our lives to get there.

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Before you start seeing boogymen in the closet...

Was that 57 year old suppose to be staffing the hospital during this "life threatening storm"? Did S/he make it into work? If the answers to those questions are "yes" and "no" respectively, then this is less about evil hospital management, and more about a worker not capable of doing his/her job.

[laughingliberal]

16. It sounds to me as if they fired some who could not make it in for regular shifts

Sorry. There is no day when some nurses are not off for various reasons. I was glad to see they are unionized and the union is looking into it for them.

On edit: noted later in the article-

"Washington Hospital Center's "Declared Weather (Or Other) Emergency" policy, does not mention termination as a consequence for failing to get to work. It does state: "Unscheduled absences and late arrivals occurring during a declared weather emergency are not counted when addressing attendance issues, nor are authorized early departures."

Pak said the hospital provided transportation for employees during the storm, but union representatives said it was not available at all times. In any case, they said, the vehicles could not reach every street. Stephen Frum, chief shop steward for Nurses United, said some nurses have photos that show their streets were impassable."

Not even part of their policy, it seems. Elsewhere, it notes the 57 year old missed one day due to impassable roads and reported the next day when she then stayed for some days afterwards so as to not miss work again. Then she reports on Tuesday and is notified she is terminated. It's total BS. She worked there 35 years and it is noted had no other disciplinary issues. They do like to get rid of the long termers whose salaries are a little higher. They can then replace them with new, cheaper nurses or just work another existing nurse a little harder and avoid the salary expense altogether. It's not boogey men in the closet. I worked middle management in enough of these hell holes to know for a fact they do this purposely to long term employees.

[laughingliberal]

17. I saw no mention of 'alpha team.' Sounds like regular staff nurses who could not get there

I always made it to work in the storms but I never saw those who did not fired for it.

[HelenWheels]

28. Before the storm?

How many times have big snow storms been for-casted and never occurred? I live in Wisconsin and that happens a lot. I was a nurse for 42 years and was I supposed to go to the hospital every time there was a big storm fore-casted? Was I supposed to sit around and wait for the storm? Would I get payed for that--no way. I drove to work many times in deep snow but I could understand if a nurse lived out in the country and couldn't get to work until the plow went through. I wonder if Joe the Revelator ever got caught in the middle of a really big snow storm or tried to drive through huge snow drifts or drove on icy roads?

[vadawg]

30. hate to break this to you but this was a storm that all emergency personnel were informed off

people were told that they had to make plans to get to work or stay, it wasnt a big secret that the area was going to grind to a halt. All the hospitals were working up plans with the local law enforcement and DOT in order to get essential people and rescue to incidents and to the hospitals. This event was planned for and forseen, i could understand complaining if it was a surprise but people were prepping for it for days...

[malaise]

36. And what if you have kids and the sitter could not come because

of snow - do you leave your children and then have them taken from you for child neglect? If a state of emergency was declared in DC then it is unreasonable that people were fired for not reaching their workplace.

[vadawg]

37. nope its not, thats part of the job when you are essential personnel

you do realise that every other emergency worker had similar problems but they still made it to work, thats the point of being essential, imagine that you have an accident in the snow and your trapped, but im at home so there is no police, the fire guys are at home, and theres no one at the hospital so your screwed anyway. Thats why we need to be at work regardless...

[laughingliberal]

54. There is a difference between emergency personnel and staff nurses at a hospital

The article notes LE and DOT were not able to get to all of them. There was no policy anywhere I ever worked that required me to come in ahead of a predicted weather emergency. I have been called and asked if I could make it in when a lot of nurses could not get in after a storm had hit. They sure as hell aren't gonna pay you for showing up the day before. And, as I note in several replies, 250 nurses missed a shift over the course of the storm and they only fired 11. They are not dealing honestly.

[Lindsay]

5. It's simple.

Below the top level, you are a replaceable cog. Firing a few cogs will remind the rest and keep them fearful.

The last place I worked was like that. The partners could work at home if the weather was bad. Below partner level, you were expected to be at your desk - even though it was possible to plan ahead and take days' worth of work home.

They were generally glad when experienced employees quit, because they could be replaced with people just out of college for less pay.

The game is rigged.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. A desk job is a lot different then being a nurse...

[2Design]

6. I hope this is their opportunity to find better places to work n/t

[vadawg]

10. sorry but they are essential personnel, they have to come to work

if you cant make it yourself the city had people going around collecting them, i spent time collecting nurses for the inova hospitals to make sure they were staffed and many nurses stayed at work for the duration.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. Exactly. NT

[laughingliberal]

13. I always stayed for the duration during storms to cover for those who did not make it in

but I never saw RN's fired if they could not get in. We could, sometimes, call and get those who lived closer to fill in but I never saw anyone fired. It's just another case of cutting staff to decrease their labor costs.

[vadawg]

20. dosent matter if other hospitals didnt do it, if the hospital has rules governing it and its in the

contract then thats the rules you work to, i to had to make it to work and was stuck for 6 days and i did a lot of those runs collecting doctors and nurses for the hospitals, if you are essential personnel then you need to be at work and different orgs have different rules when it comes to how they treat those absences. For us its an official write up and can be dismissal as we pretty much got good warnings the storm was coming...

[laughingliberal]

24. Well, here's the part of the article about their policy:

"Washington Hospital Center's "Declared Weather (Or Other) Emergency" policy, does not mention termination as a consequence for failing to get to work. It does state: "Unscheduled absences and late arrivals occurring during a declared weather emergency are not counted when addressing attendance issues, nor are authorized early departures."

Pak said the hospital provided transportation for employees during the storm, but union representatives said it was not available at all times. In any case, they said, the vehicles could not reach every street. Stephen Frum, chief shop steward for Nurses United, said some nurses have photos that show their streets were impassable."

Not part of the policy. YMMV but this is the policy at this hospital does not mention termination as a consequence. I hope the union kicks their butt.

[vadawg]

25. we will see what happens in court, but the impassable thing wont fly

people knew before hand it was going to be bad, one of the reasons i didnt even try to go home was i knew i would never get back even with chains and 4wd, there was plenty of warning.

[laughingliberal]

42. 250 nurse missed a shift over the course of the storm and 11 were fired?

Two mentioned in the article were able to make it the next day and stayed over to avoid missing any more shifts. Both singled out in the article were over 50 and all seemed to be longer term employees. Their own policy states unscheduled absences and late arrivals occuring during a declared weather emergency are not counted when addressing attendance issues...

Sorry, this does not pass the smell test. It is also mentioned in the article that vehicles they sometimes send out to get employees were not able to get through to some of the areas. I see nothing to indicate, in the policy, that workers are required to come in ahead of a storm to make sure they are there. It is perfectly obvious the hospital is choosing to try this to weed out some of the higher paid nurses. Absolutely typical in my experience working in management for the hospital industry. Thank goodness they have a union. This isn't going to fly. If they'd fired all 250, perhaps. But it is in direct opposition to what their policy states and they have, obviously, singled out some to serve another agenda.

[vadawg]

47. mayby so but we are definetly not getting the whole story, and yes emergency personnel were staying

over in order to be at work for the storm, as someone who helped co ordinate getting nurses and doctors to and fro i know that happened all over the region, its not uncommon for emergency personnel to stay in situ during an emergency situation like this in fact its pretty standard..

[Raineyb]

39. Only if you'd bother to read you'd note that weather related absences are NOT

taken into consideration when dealing with discipline due to absenteeism.

But then why bother with small things like facts when you can take the knee jerk position of sucking up to power.

[vadawg]

40. and as i said, all emergency personnel in the area are essential personnel that means you have to

work, thats the reason that the local popo and dot were collecting nurses and doctors and cops and fire who couldnt make it, talk to any emergency personnel and they will tell you that we have to work regardless of the weather, no matter if its snow, rain, tornadoes, hurricanes etc etc... and as i said in my agency if you didnt appear then you were disciplined as im sure other agencies and depts were as well...

[Raineyb]

41. In other words forget actual policy do whatever the hell you want because you can.

Gee what a surprise to find that attitude from you. Not.

[vadawg]

45. and why am i not surprised that you take this at face value, i think we will find that there is more

to this than she is telling us,

[Raineyb]

64. Funny how you're only inclined to wait for more info when to do so benefits those in power

otherwise you're quick to jump to conclusions.

Your biases are obvious.

[vadawg]

65. no i work in evidence, cold hard facts, you may let feelings rule you

but i want to see what the facts are, not what someone who mayby fucked up and lost their job says, but both sides...

[laughingliberal]

43. Doesn't say that in their policy and the unequal treatment smells

250 nurses missed a shift over the course of the storm and they fire 11? Doesn't pass muster. I've been an RN since 1982 and never known of an RN to be fired over absence due to this type of weather. The article mentions the vehicles that were picking up personnel were not able to get to all of them. It's not gonna fly.

[vadawg]

44. well we will wait and see what the court case shows us in evidence

i get the feeling that shes not telling the whole story, i think we will find that there was more to this than what we are originally seeing..

[laughingliberal]

49. And I'm more inclined to believe the hospital is not telling the whole story

It is completely consistent with crap I've seen hospital management pull in my years. There is more to it than you are seeing. But I don't think it's the employees who are being dishonest. The union said they've reviewed half the files of the employees and found no problems with their employment prior to this. Two of the nurse are over 50 and been there a long time. Another one mentioned is a employee of 8 years. Nah, they're trying to weed out those who are topping out in salary. Trust me, I've been privy to these kinds of decisions before. If it were about missing during the storm, they have about 240 more to fire.

[vadawg]

52. unless those 240 made contact and these ones never

i got no idea what happened here, all im doing is giving the perspective of an emergency worker in the region, who knows the effort that was put into getting emergency personnel to work, for me there is something else in this, i personnally dont think they made to much of an effort to get to work as i saw people come from further away and with more trying circumstances..

[spotbird]

58. Most of those mentioned in the article

were older, expensive, employees. The hospital could also cut their pensions this way as well. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[laughingliberal]

55. the article noted they were not able to collect some of them

I'm sure the nurses who missed would have been at work if a vehicle had reached them to get them there.

[vadawg]

56. depends if the staff made reasonable attempts to get there

as i said i was on the streets at this time getting people, so i know what it was like and i know people who made it in in worse conditions...

[laughingliberal]

59. It sounds as if they did

At least the 57 year old, according to the article. She missed work on the 9th but was able to get in on the 10th. She then stayed over to assure she would be there for her shift on the 11th. Then there's this:

"Pak said the hospital provided transportation for employees during the storm, but union representatives said it was not available at all times. In any case, they said, the vehicles could not reach every street. Stephen Frum, chief shop steward for Nurses United, said some nurses have photos that show their streets were impassable."

It does not sound as if they had transportation available to retrieve all those who could not make it. And it does not sound as if even the vehicles that were retrieving personnel were able to make it into all areas.

But the point that tells the story for me is that 239 nurses who missed a shift during the storm were not fired. I understand your position but I've seen this crap out of too many hospital administrations to believe their story when they fire 11 nurses for something that 250 did.

[vadawg]

61. im not disputing your points just respectively having a different viewpoint

you may be correct but i got a feeling that there is more to the story, and as i said every worker we went to get we could get, we did not find any situation that we couldnt get by, now if it was out were i live then i could understand but this was not oon dirt roads and in the mountains....

[laughingliberal]

62. Well, it is suspicious that 239 other nurses missed work and were not fired

The ages of 2 nurses in the article jumped out at me immediately. Couple that with the fact that firing employees for this is in direct violation of their own policy. Perhaps I'm mistaken but I have seen older and longer term nurses targeted too many time for that suspicion to not be there when I see this.

[vadawg]

63. as i said we dont know all the facts, you may be right, i may be right

buts its fun to discuss and get first hand knowledge of situations like this, you from the seeing it happen to older nurses in the past and me from thinking they didnt try hard enough to get in.... :)

[laughingliberal]

66. Yep

;-)

[vadawg]

67. well im going off shift now, see you in 3 days

no internet where i live out in gods country, though i still have to walk to my house due to three feet of snow on the ground, have a great couple of days...

[laughingliberal]

68. Stay safe. nt

[Tippy]

14. It is a horribly unfair pratice...

Recently my Hubby couldn't get in to work due to road conditions...He has a hour 15 minute drive...He works PRN not by choice..He takes call, third shift every other week..one time since he first started there he called out...and he had found someone who lived a block away who agreed to cover for him...his supervisor complained....The rest of that week for all intents and purposes he stayed at the hospital. The reason was condiitons were still bad and he felt more secure driving in daylight...not one word of thanks for going this extra mile..

[Catshrink]

18. Good thing this wasn't a school

they'd blame them for the snow and fire all of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. LOL!

Beat me to it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. What is this "associates" crap?

"Sadly, we did experience some issue with associates . . ."

They are EMPLOYEES. The WalMatization of the work place is total crap.

[Bitwit1234]

22. Way back in the late 80's Maryland had a bad snow storm

people were told to stay home. Business were closed and employees told not to come in to work. But the Maryland Motor Vehicles reprimanded employees because they did not come to work. All those people who were off because of the storm showed up at MVA to take DRIVING TESTS. which were canceled because the driving course was snowed in. But the complained anyway and the head of MVA told Managers to write the people up who didn't come in to work.

Now the people who had off because of the weather came in to MVA and expected THOSE people to be there.

[vadawg]

23. rofl, yeah but you do agree that hospitals, fire and rescue and the cops are different

we are kinda essential especially during snowmaggeddon and the snowpocalypse... but the MVA thing did make me chuckle..

[laughingliberal]

51. They are if their policy says they are

Their policy does not say that. Their policy says the opposite. They may want to take a look at that policy and change it but they can't change it retroactively and fire people.

[virginia mountainman]

26. My wife, is a RN supervisor in the ER, or ICU at a local hospital..

They are very insistent on her being their, and with good reason, lives are on the line! The will come and get her, put her, me, the kids, and our PETS, up in a local motel close to the hospital in case of an emergency.

They even provide money for various expenses and food.

That being said, what happened in Washington, was a bit on the extreme, it sounds like they where looking for a reason to fire those people. All the Nurses my wife works with, make great efforts to be their, the vast majority do, a couple don't. But they are their for the next storm, and a different one will be out. They make do. But no one gets fired or wrote up over it.

All make genuine efforts to be their, but trees down, and snow drifts can keep even the most dedicated at home sometimes.

Since my wife became LPN (many years, ago) we have kept a 4x4 vehicle with nice rough tread tires, at ALL times, this is part of the cost associated with her line of work. We never owned one before.

But when lives are on the line, and we live in the Appalachians, we must keep one now. It's been used allot this season, we have had almost 60 inches of snowfall here where we live.

She spent 5 days at the hospital back in January. Due to weather.

[vadawg]

27. dude i havent been able to get to my house since the storm in december

there was a couple of days when the snow melted but i was working and when it was time to go home it had snowed again, my wife is so over the snow and im so over having to park and walk through the woods dragging groceries. Bring on the spring...

[virginia mountainman]

29. We are sick of it too...

Luckily I have access to a farm tractor, so I have been able to keep the driveway open, but it has been rough as hell this winter. Even with the 4x4 Explorers, it has been rough. In a way we was lucky, I had just bought a much newer Ford Explorer to retire the old 1991 Explorer we have had for almost 2 decades, so at the moment, we have two 4x4's, I was going to put a "For Sale" sign up in the old one, but that will wait till summer they both have been getting lots of use.

LOL the car, at one time, sat for 4 weeks.

All the scraping has destroyed, what just a few months ago, was a fine gravel driveway.

What part of Virginia do you hail from if you don't mind me asking?

We are in Carroll County, and live nestled up against the Blue Ridge.

[vadawg]

31. im up north on the blueridge, 4 miles of dirt road and a couple of thousand feet up

so we have had it really bad up at the national park but im hoping it wont be long until we get a thaw. i got a toyota fj that is mountanized but even with ice cutter chains ive given up trying to get to the house.. my driveway is more just two ruts going down the mountain, i think im going to have to start new ones come the spring...

[virginia mountainman]

32. Yea..

I had a sinkhole form in mine, it was a 6 foot round "hole" in the middle.. It is muddy all over, the stone has been scraped away..it is in my yard now...

One day, before the February storm, and the snow had melted enough, I borrowed a dump trailer and a F250, and filled it in with 3 TONS of #2 crusher run stone...it was BARELY enough!!

It is holding, I hope it holds till the winter breaks, so I can make my drive way "right" again.

[vadawg]

33. im just hoping that my kids dont have an accident, i dont want rescue having to climb down to my

house on foot, it was hard enough on them when they had to drive when my wife broke her leg in our meadow.. im actually laughing my ass off at my friend who is bitching about the small amount of snow he had to shovel, we got well over three feet in both the big storms and then three more storms with 8 to 10 inches each and drifting, it has been brutal this year..

[AnneD]

35. When the hospital helps take care of your loved one...

then I will make the extra effort to be there. But I have a Nurse friend that endured in a hell hole after Katrina. She will never do it again. If the hospital administration really cared-THEY WOULD EVACUATE (in the case of hurricanes), or make provisions like your hospital for all their staff. I was able to bring my daughter in with me because it was Christmas Eve and as a single mom I couldn't find a sitter. We were both snowed in and they gave us an unoccupied room. My sweetie loved it and we gave her work to do-reading to our elderly patients (she was 4th grade), helping with food trays while I caught some shut eye. I will only come in if my family is provided for.

I don't mind helping in an emergency but I refuse to sacrifice myself and my family on the alter of service-esp when these CEO's are safe in their homes and get those bonuses on top of it all. The only thing most of them care about is their bottom line.

I have been in Nursing for almost 20 years. If folks can come in they can, if they can't they can't. I would not want people killed trying to come in and I refuse to judge folks-it's not my place.

[laughingliberal]

46. Would agree with you but for the fact that this hospital's own policy states

absenteeism due to weather emergencies does not count against the employee. And, as I've mentioned upthread, there were 250 nurse who missed shifts over the course of the storm and they fired 11. Not a good idea. I, also, have spent days at a hospital with a few of us taking turns covering the patients but I never saw any of the nurses who could not make it in fired. They can change their policy if they wish but it was not their policy at the time. The article reads as if most who were fired were long time employees. This is part of another agenda and they saw this excuse as convenient.

[Greyhound]

34. We have few labor laws here and they are largely unenforced.

Work Camp America; spending our lives to achieve the dreams of parasites.

[eilen]

38. We got hit with some snow-- about 18 inches

last week. I left for the hospital an hour early but the roads were pretty clear once I got out of my neighborhood however, the visibility was poor. I ended up at work early and punched in and immediatly checked in with the supervisors so I could help out the floors and got bitched at for punching in more than 10 minutes before my shift.

These fuckers are never satisfied.

[laylah]

50. I got fired for eating

a french fry that fell off a guest's plate back in the kitchen. NOTHING surprises me anymore. (I can provide the unemployment denial letter to prove this statement if anyone doubts me).

[vadawg]

53. was it considered theft, or embezzlement......

technically you did take something that you shouldnt have...

[coyote]

60. And you wonder why Americans don't take to the street

like Europeans. Because your employer will shitcan you for the most pathetic of reasons. This would never happen in Europe.

The only thing that matters is the almighty buck. People are disposable.

[Odin2005]

71. Corporate Serfdom

Marx was wrong, socially capitalism was NOT an advance over feudalism except that land was replaced by capital, beyond that the many things that Marx thought distinguished Capitalism from Feudalism are in reality a side effect of centralized state power. Now the Multinational Corporations are truly becoming the equivalent of the Great Landowners of Medieval France, ruling over their own fiefdoms with impunity.