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What is so hard about making simple clear arguments, Democrats?

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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:54 PM
Original message
What is so hard about making simple clear arguments, Democrats?
On the Morning Shows--thank God there were Democrats Present.

However, they leave the Public thoroughly confused on Reconcilation.

The Senate Passed HCR before Christmas with 60 votes--this
is the super-majority the GOP demands.

The House has yet to vote on this bill. The House passes the
Senate Bill.

This means the Comprehensive HIR passed with all the technicalities
the GOP whine about removed.

There are some budgetary adjustments the House Requires (part of
their deal with the Senate.

Reconciliation is a vote on these Budgetary Adjustments not
a vote on the entire Bill. It has already been passed.

Never once did they clarify that the HCR has met
Super--Threshold. It passed with 60 votes

Instead they permit the GOP to continue to make it
look as if they are using some nefarious tactics
to ram a bill through.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. This will all become clear to voters when they hear the word 'Mandates'
K&R
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I kept hoping to hear someone call them out on passing Medicare part D under reconciliation
but that is tough when our current legislation leaves it pretty much intact.
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly, I know of what you speak.
If our party would adopt the premise of just STATING THE FUCKING FACTS, we would never lose an election at any level.
If we would learn to play some fucking OFFENSE, instead of always being on the defense, we would be so much better off.
I'm sick of standing in the back of the room, and I want a seat at the fucking table.
I'm a progressive for a reason, and it's simply because I want us to PROGRESS.

I don't want my fucking country back anymore.
I want a better, fairer, more peaceful and prosperous country, because the one we have now flat out SUCKS.

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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Very well said!!! I agree!!! n/t
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Because their tongue tripping all over themselves attempting
to sell this piece of shit corporate health care reform bill as something other than what it is.

First Off
Democrats are in complete control, Republicans are just window dressing

Secondly
Republicans didn't kill the Public Option with Single PAYER

Democrats did !

Stop shilling for what we KNOW is bullshit and hold them responsible BEFORE
they pull the trigger of the gun pointed at their heads which will KILL this Party

Do it now before its too late
Fuck the Republicans, They have NO say so whatsoever.

K & R
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Amen! Couldnt have said it better! NT
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. another amen (n/t)
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Clear simple arguments require one to both have the facts and to make a stand.
Facts are dangerous because, once out there, they tend to just sit there being all fact-like and hard to argue. Making a stand requires one to make a definitive statement, and that is anathema to Democratic politics because you never know when it is going to be advantageous to throw that stand under the bus.


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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. The arguments that needed to be out there
Are being stated beautifully in this thread.

So we know it can be done.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Simple, Clear arguments are the hallmarks of honest men.
On the Other Hand, For a "Bait & Switch Scam" to work properly, it is necessary to keep The Mark confused.
Obama and the Corporate Democrats are MASTERS of this technique.

"I did not campaign on a Public Option."
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. ooooh! Good Answer!!! nt
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Exactly! this is what frustrates me so much! We actually have .
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 03:17 PM by veganlush
..the winning argument, but don't want to affront the repugnants with it. The President and the Democrats in Congress have dropped the ball on the message piece, and it's going to be their single biggest failure and lost opportunity in all of this debate.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Because making a "simple clear argument" means taking a stand on something. The way
politics (or more to the point, politicians) works these days, every politician, and by extension every political party, tries to be all things to all people, all the time. When you spend all your time trying to make the largest number of people possible think you're their friend, you have to avoid specifics...because if you start to get into specifics, you're invariably going to alienate some people; by avoiding taking any kind of a clear position on anything, or making that "simple clear argument", you can hopefully maintain the façade of being everybody's best buddy for the longest amount of time.

This seems to be much more of a Democratic affliction than a Republican one. The only reason I can figure is, even though neither party really gives a shit about the People of this country, the Democrats still feel some need to pretend that they do, whereas the Republicans don't.
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