Are organ procurement agencies getting away with murder?

[mia]

I can't stop thinking about a young Miami woman who was declared dead by a representative of the organ donor program at the University of Miami recently.
Her name was Caroline Francois.

As a teacher here in Miami, I've had a number of students with the last name of Francois and all have been Haitian immigrants. I can't help thinking that cases like may happen more frequently in public hospitals.

Here's the story of Gregory Jacobs. The defendant is The Center for Organ Recovery & Education. After reading it and today's news, I don't think I will be able to leave a loved one alone in the hospital again.

[WCGreen]

1. For someone who is facing a lung transplant in the not too distant

future, I hope that doesn't play into my situation.

Although, Law & Order has done some shows about this very situation...

[mia]

2. I hope you don't have to worry about that either.

I haven't seen any of these shows, but remember reading "Coma" over 30 years ago - and seeing the movie. It seemed like Science Fiction then.

I wish you the best.

[WCGreen]

4. Thanks...

I'm a little apprehensive about the whole thing and am not looking forward to taking the gas before the operation...

[liberalhistorian]

5. If it helps, a longtime friend of hubby's had a full

lung transplant last year and is doing fine so far. She was in the hospital for a month and then in their "halfway-recovery" house for a couple more months, since there are stringent care regimens that must be followed during that time. But she got through it fine and is doing so much better now, better than she's been in many years. She looks a lot better physically, too. Hopefully, that'll be true for you!!!!

[NYC_SKP]

12. Best wishes in advance for a successful procedure and speedy recovery, WCGreen.

:thumbsup:

[WCGreen]

15. I'm going in on March 9th to get tested to see if I am sick enough yet....

[upi402]

16. My mom's best friend survived that, years of healthy and happy

life! best of the best to you! You will be fine, better than ever.:pals:

[liberalhistorian]

3. Frankly, one of the reasons why the book and movie

"Coma" was so chilling was precisely because it was a very plausible scenario and people had and have little trouble believing it could happen. I've thought for years that this either could happen or was already happening under the radar, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit.

As much as I recognize the need for organs and sympathize with those who need them and their families, I've always been very bothered by a lot of the medical and social attitude regarding it, particularly medical. It's as if the near-dead or comotose person isn't even taken into consideration, the focus is all on the person needing the organ. The intense pressure to be an organ donor and the guilt trips and tactics employed are also very annoying. I'm happy to have on my license that I'm a donor and have made sure my family understands my wishes since they can still override it if the situation ever arises, but I don't like being forced or "guilted" into it and I know for a fact that it turns people off, people who would otherwise be glad to do it.

I'm from Cleveland and I remember a case several years ago where something like this almost happened. The county prosecutor made clear to the hospital that it would consider murder charges if it actually happened and if they took someone off life support when there was any question as to whether or not it was medically necessary, because they wanted an organ or organs. My fear is that too many hospitals are starting to not do what they can for such people and are removing them too early from life support if they want organs. It really isn't all that far-fetched, frankly. The writer of Coma was, after all, a physician himself who said he saw that potential. And that was thirty years ago.

[mia]

9. Well said. Also troublesome is the idea of "presumed consent".

I see the potential for lots of abuse here.

http://www.presumedconsent.org/solutions.htm
Here's how the system would work under Presumed Consent:
An individual who does not want to be an Organ Donor would have to "opt-out" by entering their name on a National Registry maintained by OPTN - the same organization that now keeps the National Waiting List of transplant candidates. When a person died under circumstances that would permit Organ Donation, a search would be made of the Registry. If their name did not appear in the Registry, it would be presumed they had consented to be a Donor. While the family would be advised of this information, their consent would not be required, and no one would be allowed to override the donation.

[vadawg]

18. yup theproblem i have with presumes consent is the possiblilty of mix up

there are a lot of reasons why people wouldnt want to have their organs used and i can forsee mistakes happening...

[midnight]

6. When you enter a hospital with family, and are denied the right to stay with

family call patient liaison... This story is right out of what you expect from a third world country.....

[Warpy]

7. The Jacobs case is tragic, but it will rest on one thing only

and that's whether or not an EEG was done prior to harvesting and whether or not it showed any brain activity.

The family has misread and misinterpreted standard medical treatment all the way through it, otherwise, and really don't have a case because it looks like heroics were attempted to save him.

However, if they didn't do that EEG, hang them out to dry.

[mia]

10. The lawsuit states that there was brain activity.

"At the time that Nurse Anderson approached Mr. Jacobs, Gregory still
demonstrated both cardiac activity and brain activity. In fact, cardiac activity and
brain activity continued until he was wheeled into an operating room for organ
harvesting procedures."

[Warpy]

11. Nurse Anderson knew no such thing

The EEG was necessary.

Trust me, nobody wakes up in recovery right after a partial frontal and parietal lobectomy.

[mia]

13. I trust you, but the way I read it was that there was hope for recovery

After the lobectomy it states:

32. Despite the delay, Gregory was making progress and there was still hope
for a recovery.
33. In the recovery room, Gregory responded to stimuli from his parents.
When he heard his mother’s voice, he moved his arm toward an injury and grimaced.
34. On March 9, 2007, Gregory’s CT scan showed improvement from his
initial admission to the hospital.

I guess I'm imagining my own son when I think of this young man and would also have thought as his mother did, that Gregory's reaction indicated brain functioning.

[Warpy]

14. 32, yes, there's hope for a miracle. We can't count on them, though,

that's why we call them miracles.
33. NOBODY wakes up immediately from a partial lobectomy. Multiply that x2 for this kid. That was wishful thinking on Mom's part. Remember Schiavo's parents? That was false hope and wishful thinking in action and it's extremely common in neurology units.
34. CT scans will show gross structures but they won't show brain activity. Only an EEG will, which is why one is so critical here.

This case is tragic and if you've got a kid, it's impossible not to think of it hitting home. However, it all hinges on whether that EEG was done and what it showed.

Other than that, it was a long series of people who either didn't explain things to the parents or explained them very poorly.

[Zoigal]

8. Personally, i think it is wise to have a family member or friend always

in the hospital room with the patient. And never hesitate to question procedures.....z

[mia]

17. Yes. This can't be stated strongly enough. n/t