The Real Reason Obama's Plan Doesn't Include a Public Option

[kpete]

The Real Reason Obama's Plan Doesn't Include a Public Option

The reason Robert Gibbs gives for President Obama's health care plan not including a public option -- that despite majority voter support, it can't get 51 Democratic votes in the Senate -- doesn't hold up. The real reason is that Obama made a backroom deal last summer with the for-profit hospital industry that there would be no meaningful public option.

This is one of the great under-reported stories of the health reform saga. Much has been written about the Obama administration's deal with big Pharma to continue to block Medicare from negotiating for lower drug prices or to allow consumers to buy cheaper drugs from Canada, in exchange for Pharma running pro-Democratic ads and giving campaign contributions to Democratic candidates. That's the reason, under pressure from the White House, that Senate Democrats voted down an amendment that would have allowed consumers to buy cheaper drugs from overseas.

But Obama's deal with the for-profit hospital lobby to insure there would be no public option has, as best I can tell, only been reported in two articles in The New York Times. On August 13, The Times reported that while President Obama had presented himself as "aloof from the legislative fray," particularly in connection with the public option, "Behind the scenes, however, Mr. Obama and advisors have been...negotiating deals with a degree of cold-eyed political realism potentially at odds with the president's rhetoric." One of the deals reported in The Times article was the Pharma deal. The other was a deal with the for-profit hospital lobby to limit its cost reductions to $155 billion over 10 years in exchange for a White House promise that there would be no meaningful public option.

According to The Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html

"Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying-Medicare rates...or controlled by the secretary of health and human services. 'We have an agreement with the White House that I'm very confident will be seen all the way through conference', one of the industry lobbyists, Chip Kahn, director of the Federation of American Hospitals, told a Capitol Hill newsletter...Industry lobbyists say they are not worried (about a public option.) 'We trust the White House,' Mr. Kahn said."

more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-real-reason-obamas-pl_b_473924.html

[Oregone]

1. People will not be helped by the government unless private industry can profit at the same time

[mmonk]

65. Yep. The "Third Way".

[placton]

105. or perhaps "the Turd Way"? n/t

[mmonk]

108. Lol. I like your description better.

[misanthrope]

171. Third Way, Third Rail, either/or**nm

**

[mmonk]

192. Yep.

I'm pretty tired of it. I'd rather go back to regulated capitalism and progressive taxation. It's pretty clear it isn't working for ordinary Americans.

[Cherchez la Femme]

137. Business is NOT the purpose of the government

--was it Reagan who started that bullshit?--

at least the primary purpose.

The purpose of the U.S. government is it's people's welfare
Now, people are involved in business, but re: Maslow's Hierarchy,
food, shelter, basic needs to live are primary. For some (most) people, business helps take care of meeting those needs by enabling people to afford them;
but what about those in poverty or disabled,
those out of work, homeless, etc?

Of course with one of the latest pronunciations by our highest court, y'know, those activists;
this 'Business is government's purpose' is even more clarified to their skewed, Ayn Rand brand of thinking. I'm just waiting for the SCOTUS to give corporations the right to vote, as they seem to have every other right held by individual humans
...the real question is how many votes will each company be given?

It makes me sick to see our government, both parties, subscribe to the 'trickle-down theory' (which does NOT work) by putting business interests --benefiting only those who have the money to own or afford to invest in them-- first and in most cases, solely.


Lousy syntax, sorry, but this bullshit pisses me off beyond anything else in this country;
and all I can do right now is bang on the keyboard, say fuck the grammar and hope it can be understood...

[druidity33]

153. Have you read "A People's History of the US"?

By Howard Zinn? Because i think if you had, you would not be so naive. In truth the government of the US WAS set up to maintain the interests of a wealthy few. Remember, when they said "All men are created equal"... they didn't mean the women, the slaves, the indentured servants, the non-landowners, or really anyone who wasn't white, male and wealthy (possibly Anglo as well).

The way it was, the way it is, the way it always has been. If you haven't read A People's History of the US, i cannot recommend it enough. It has opened my eyes to so many injustices and unrewarded heros and martyrs... i just think it's an indelible portion of American History that too many people go without.

Beware however. If you have an outrage meter, you might want to take the book slow because every chapter brings to light people and events that are at turns brutal and devastating. For a book on History it's actually an engaging read.

Cheers...

[Joe Chi Minh]

165. Have you read Joe Bageant's latest article? He's seems extremely well-informed

and is extraordinarily insightful.

[druidity33]

173. I like Joe

he's a rollickin read... haven't visited his site in awhile. Will do so. Thanks for reminding me!

:)

[bjobotts]

174. The "real" need for a PO is that it opens the door for gov involvement in HC ins which can be expand

expanded later on. THAT is why it has so much opposition coming from ins and other lobbyists.

[bjobotts]

175. Seldom mentioned is the NEW DEAL is what stopped an armed revolution from occuring.

[bjobotts]

176. From Wall st. to Billionaire ins CEOs the message should be will U live long enough to spend it.

[shintao]

180. Capitalism raises its ugly.............

I notice socialist countries have solved that issue.

We need National Health Care for all Americans whole body. We don't need to be jacked around with BS, just do it. And if they can't do it, it is time to vote them all out (yes, your sweetie rep as well), and start government a new. The American people have been in the back of the bus too long. These guys spent over a billion tax dollars last year talking medical & want to do it again, on health care. Enough is enough.

[Hannah Bell]

2. Because Obama is a tool of Chicago capital. It was obvious from day one

when you looked at his funders, background & campaign staff.

Plus the two Mr. Gates,' Mr. Buffett, & sundry other notables from the "world's richest" list.

[dkf]

5. Gates and Buffet believe in the estate tax.

They are not normal rich guys.

[Hannah Bell]

10. uh, yes they are. they "believe" in the estate tax because they have billions socked

away in private foundations which are actually tax-free investment funds.

they believe in the estate tax for *you* - if you're a small businessperson.

don't delude yourself that either will *ever* pay any significant amount of estate tax.

gates & buffett are both the sons & grandsons of connected rich men & they used their inheritance to get even richer & more connected. their heirs will do the same.

http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Gates_Foundation_Critique

[dkf]

16. Huh? They are both self made.

[Hannah Bell]

31. Um, no, they're not. Warren's father was a well-connected investor (own firm), millionaire &

politician.

*His* father was a wholesale/retail grocer & local bigshot in nebraska settlement days.

Gates' maternal grandpa & great-granpa were bankers & national city bank (stillman/rockefeller i.e. citibank) men & politicos:

http://books.google.com/books?id=O-QDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA134&dq=james+willard+maxwell&cd=6#v=onepage&q=james%20willard%20maxwell&f=false

the banking money is what established mary & gates sr.'s social position. also helped establish the million-$ trust fund set up for gates at birth.

unless the rumors about gates sr being intelligence-connected are true, in which case he also had some connections of his own.

great-great grandpa worked as an advance man for railroad interests; he laid out lincoln nebraska, where buffett's ancestors also settled & made their fortune serving the railroad trade.

gates ancestor also married into this family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Brush

[Virginian]

94. Isn't the estate tax around a million now?

In other words, your net worth has to be over a million dollars before you pay any estate taxes.

For most people, their major asset is their home. The value of mine is nowhere close to a million, even before the nosedive the real estate market has taken. Assessment notice arrived yesterday, It dropped again this year, but not as much.

I am not worried about any estate tax - ever. I don't see what the big deal is, most Americans will not have an estate that qualifies and small businesses are supposed to now have an exemption to a certain level so that the corner store or the family farm can stay in the family.

I can't remember which super rich person it was, it could have been Warren Buffet who said he was leaving nothing to his children, They had all the advantages growing up, that they should be able to work for their own fortunes without an inheritance.

[rhett o rick]

102. Two things. The law governing the estate tax ran out leaving taxpayers in limbo.

"With Senate Democrats unable to persuade Republicans to extend the 2009 estate tax law for even a couple of months until a more permanent solution could be devised, there is currently no tax on the estates of those dying during 2010. Although Congress may reinstate the tax retroactively in 2010, perhaps as part of broader tax reform, this is by no means a certainty." http://www.elderlawanswers.com/Resources/Article.asp?ID=8017 This was a couple of weeks ago and I havent heard of anything since.

Second, I believe it was Buffet that said he would leave his children a business apiece and that was all. I also believe the Bill Gates is not leaving much to his children. Sorry no sources.

[RaleighNCDUer]

103. Huh? do you know what the estate tax IS?

Of COURSE they will never pay a penny of estate tax - THEY'LL BE FUCKING DEAD.

Their heirs, however, WILL pay taxes on inherited income whey they did not themselves earn. As they should.

BTW, Gates got started in a garage, and made every cent he earned the American way - by mass producing a crappy product and squeezing out the competition.

Buffett, IIRC, also was a self-starter who did not inherit squat when he was getting started.

If their heirs never have to work a day in their lives, that's fine with me. None of my business, so long as they pay their taxes.

[AlbertCat]

114. Huh? do you know what the estate tax IS?

Apparently it has something to do with Health Care Reform.... and people's personalities.




BTW, I paid my estate tax (about 1/3 or my inheritance) thank you very much. I'm "nuts". I don't mind taxes. I just wish my tax dollars were spent more wisely and more here at home.

[icee]

99. Yeah. This became obvious long ago, Hannah. Some of the

decisions this man has made defy logic. Obama was bought and paid for long ago, which is why he couldn't refute the deal he made with Healthcare and/or Pharma. He is not a free agent. He will retire mid-January 2013 a very rich man, who would will probably leave the country. Meanwhile, he is in the process of doing the impossible: making, by comparison, George W Bush look like Winston Churchill. I'm glad you're starting to understand. It has been very frustrating coming here and observing all the disgusting mistaken adulation. Bush was so bad the stage was set for "anything but Bush". We got what we more or less asked for.

Icee

[Mike K]

123. Well seen and well said!

I believe Obama isn't the least bit interested in a second term.

[icee]

125. Right. He was like hired for an assignment. The MIC had to find

someone easily malleable who would do as he was told. The MIC then pulled off another Hegelian Dialectic using Obama. Bush was so bad, the MIC knew they couldn't get a Republican in and get anything done. So they created Obama with his hope and change and instructed him what to do so that people would move away from him and the Party. If their plan has worked, the Democrats should lose heavily in November. And as long as the MIC don't Jump the Shark, their task becomes even easier.

[Enthusiast]

151. It looks that way to me.

I can't imagine it to be any other way.

It's not as if Teabaggers and Republicans are going to suddenly start supporting him. And people like me are certainly not going to vote for him after what he has done. Maybe he won't even seek a second term. I pray there will be a third party alternative.

My line in the sand - the public option and regulating the financial services industry.

[icee]

188. Add indictments for torture and I'm there too.

[Hannah Bell]

185. "will probably leave the country" -- wtf are you talking about? excuse me if i misjudge you, but

i catch the whiff of the kenya canard in your post.

[icee]

187. Kenya canard? Sorry, I thought I was talking to someone

rational. Am I a freeper next? I'll excuse your ambivalence and never bother you again. Too bad about your judgement. I certainly hope its not contagious.

[Hannah Bell]

190. on what basis did you decide obama would leave the country after his term?

[icee]

196. Huge deflationary depression which he will have to own up

to. I can already see it starting with last month's decline in core inflation. The first since 1982. Massive unemployment, which would have been attentuated had money not been given to the banksters. Do you somehow think I'm a Birther? I think it is virtually impossible for Obama to have not been born in the United States, although as the next decade goes by, that may not be such an ingratiating plus. Anyway, I think he will leave because he will be blamed for inadequate action post Bush. And the world may well be a much more dangerous place as fear gives way to anger. Adios.

[dkf]

3. This is Transparency? What a joke.

[change_notfinetuning]

4. The audacity of deceit. n/t

[truedelphi]

36. Ah your slogan says it all. So sad, but so true. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

6. For how much money? They didn't say for how much.

I'd just like to know the dollar figure he puts on us.

[ProSense]

7. So now that the alleged secret pharma deal didn't prevent further cuts

there is an alleged secret hospitals deal?

OK.

[rhett o rick]

11. So please tell us why you think the President doesnt support a PO? nt

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[rhett o rick]

72. I call it a hit-and-run. nt

[proudohioan]

106. I've had the same experience with her.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[Political Heretic]

95. It's pathetic.

[dkf]

18. U defending them?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

163. She defends everything and anything done by the administration.

I think we know why.

[Barack_America]

22. And where is this alleged support for the PO from the WH?

That's the only thing I've yet to see evidence of.

[slipslidingaway]

24. The alleged deal with Pharma included the provision that Medicare will not be allowed

to negotiate drug prices and that the bill would not allow the re-importation of drugs.

Did the President's new plan mention either of those items?

Just look at the Obama/Biden HC plan in which they detail both of these issues, but then they just seemed to disappear.

[laughingliberal]

37. No, but he did back out of some of his deal with them

He had agreed to limit the amount they would have to put back to $80 billion over 10 years. That part he has tanked in his bill. But you are correct. The rest of it stands, so far.

[slipslidingaway]

40. Thanks ...

:hi:

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

71. Please tell me you dont mean that post #7 includes a valid question?

Tell me I misunderstood you. Here is the question in post #7: "...there is an alleged secret hospitals deal?"

Either the poster didnt read the OP, or she is trying to start something here. And since she didnt respond to those that responded to her post, it appears she just bopped in to drop a turd and move on. IMO

[AlbertCat]

122. "...there is an alleged secret hospitals deal?"

Forgive me but I will play devil's advocate here.

If we know about it it's not secret.


And how does a PO re buying INSURANCE effect a hospital? A hospital is not an Insurance company you buy insurance from. I know it does effect them and it is probably complicated but it seems the hospital's main concern is reimbursement from a government plan. They already deal with Medicare and Medicaid. So in one highlighted section, why wasn't the words "paying-Medicare rates." in bold too? That seems to be an important qualifier.

"it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying-Medicare rates"

This does not exclude a PO but a PO paying-Medicare rates. It would seem to be more about the extension of Medicare than a new PO.


Don't get me wrong. This doesn't sound very up front and transparent. But it's also more complicated than people here seem to grasp and your conclusions are a bit speculative and selective in what you are considering. ALL the words in the article count and have meaning.

[rhett o rick]

130. Agree that if we know about it, it is NO LONGER secret. But there may have been secret

meetings (wouldnt surprise me) that may now be coming to light, therefor no longer secret.

Your question: "And how does a PO re buying INSURANCE effect a hospital?" should be directed to the hospital lobbyists.

A good PO would be charging Medicare rates. I think what I hear you saying is that they (the lobbyists) wouldnt object to a PO if it paid higher than Medicare rates. I agree with you. The lobbyists wouldnt at all object to a PO that was controlled by the health insurance industry.

I dont know why the Pres isnt pushing for decent HCR. Maybe secret meetings, maybe something else. I am just soundly disappointed in his failure to lead in this area.

[freddie mertz]

116. Where is your evidence to refute this?

I don't see any here.

Just the usual denial drive-by.

[JTFrog]

143. Well anonymous sources said it, so it must be true.

You know how it goes around here. Pounce now, verify later.

[rhett o rick]

149. He says as he "pounces". Do you have anything rational to add to the discussion? nt

[JTFrog]

154. You first. n/t

[rhett o rick]

189. What? You got nothing? LOL. nt

[JTFrog]

195. You fall for anonymous sources and then demand proof to refute them?

You just rock this joint with your LOL.

[rhett o rick]

197. I am interested in arguments from both sides. Just curious what your motivation is

for attacking posts w/o any arguments or discussion.

I apologize for the lol. Not only was it rude, it is so last year.

[JTFrog]

198. What is your definition of attacking? I agreed with the poster I responded to.

That was my motivation for posting.

It is rather curious that folks get mighty defensive when it's pointed out that these are allegations from anonymous sources. :shrug:

[midnight]

8. Too bad. Mr. President we can give people a better choice...

[Skittles]

9. yes, and it was so fucking OBVIOUS

it is SICKENING

[Political Heretic]

96. Ugg... stop saying how obvious it was.

It's like a slap in my face.

:P

[icee]

101. Agreed. He has actually made me vomit in front of the tv I've

been so mad.

[Unvanguard]

12. "paying Medicare rates" or "controlled by the secretary of health and human services"

Neither of those conditions, if I recall correctly, were met by the public option that was actually in the Senate or the House bill at the final stages.

[AlbertCat]

124. "paying Medicare rates" or "controlled by the secretary of health and human services"

Thank goodness someone else noticed these important qualifiers. "kpete" and a lot of others don't seem to think they are important.


Like I said up the page.... ALL the words in the articles count.



But those of us who noticed that will be called "blinded" and "Unreasonable". I'm just gonna have to work on my knee-jerk reactions I guess.

[Barack_America]

13. And now Obama is realizing how much that deal cost him.

And how much it cost the rest of the party.

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. "We trust the White House" say the crooks.

Sounds like something from The Godfather.

[Barack_America]

19. It's just so insulting to be deceived in such a fashion....

....by someone I worked so hard for.

Won't make that mistake again, that's for sure.

[mod mom]

64. I agree. Wait to they need folks to do the legwork of GOTV. Do they really think they can win

on big corporate contributions alone?

Disheartening! :mad:

[icee]

107. Really. First time ever, I actually campaigned for someone, went

door-to-door, cold called, borrowed money for the last person in my family to achieve the maximum contribtution. To then be betrayed on everything from A to Z... I'm done voting. Won't change my mind.

[ooglymoogly]

131. We cannot do that. All pugs need to steal an

election is get to within 10 points of an honest win. The machine they have built can easily handle that 10% with the committed help from the corporate "msm" Though I have come to feel revulsion every time I see O; If he is not primaried, I will hold my nose and vote a straight democratic ticket preferencing progressives where they are. We are trapped between a rock and a hard place. the rock is just a little better than the hard place we are pressed against because in numbers we can push back against the rock. The only hope we have in my opinion is the primaries where once again we need to get to work for true progressives pulling out all the stops. What money I have will go to progressives all over the country fighting an uphill battle against the "msm" and the DLC, who are trying to eliminate them (them meaning us).

[icee]

134. When HCR fails, it will be too difficult for me to pay for my medicines

and still have my wife live in financial dignity. I'll pull the plug on myself. Obama was the last hope, and he is approximately hopeless. But, having been a Democrat for all of my life, I understand what you are saying. It is simply to no avail. When was our last good Democrat President? One who made proud and worked for the common good? I say Kennedy. But that time is passed. Sure, if a Grayson got in, I believe he would work himself ragged and not give in. But that won't happen. However, even though I won't vote, I'll fight in other ways for Progressive principles. Keep the good fight, oogly.

[Enthusiast]

156. He doesn't care.

That is the point. Democrats are going to get crushed in November. This is exactly what corporate America wants.

Maybe then Republicans (MIC) will get that war in Iran they have so long wished for. Only one way to pay for that war - social programs will go on the chopping block.

You ain't seen nothing yet.

[fan of the arts]

17. Now let's move on to more important things, like whatever we're told

Forget human trust, dignity or loyalty, morals or integrity, just follow orders like a good propaganda follower who obeys the system that has made Obama president.

[liberal_at_heart]

20. This is why I can't support anything except single payer

The insurance industry was writing this legislation from the very beginning. I will not support it.

[pundaint]

141. Yes, all else is nothing but a sellout.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_In_AK]

23. I had so hoped that my doubts about candidate Obama's

sincerity would be laid to rest. Sadly, it really IS business as usual in DC.

Hope and change? Bah, humbug.

[Missy Vixen]

29. Thank you

I said so many times during the campaign that I did not find him even remotely sincere. Of course, the DU'er that bet me a beer I was wrong hasn't paid up to this day.

And NO, I was not a HRC supporter. Again.

:eyes:

[Blue_In_AK]

47. I hear ya.

I didn't want to rain on anyone's parade during the campaign, so I wasn't real adamant about it, but I did have a few minor disagreements with some of my friends here. I was not a strong Hillary supporter either. Those candidate match-up tests that we all took usually predicted Mike Gravel as the candidate whose views most closely aligned with mine. :rofl: Fat chance of Mike Gravel ever becoming president, but there you have it -- the story of my political life.

I really did feel somewhat hopeful at the inauguration, but I haven't seen much follow-through. It seems like the concessions we DO get are all window-dressing, feel-good things, so we can say, "Well, at lesat he's better than George Bush" (or McCain/Palin). And, certainly, he gives wonderful, inspiring speeches. There have been some good things, no doubt.

But the real basic things that I'm most disappointed about are that the administration is not dealing with the criminal actions of the previous administrations -- clear criminal war crimes and violations of our rights; that they're continuing many of those practices; that they're continuing to deal with law-breaking organizations such as Blackwater; that they're placing corporate interests over the interests of the people. I'm sorry, but I really believe that Obama could have pushed these things forward if he had really wanted to. This bipartisan stuff is a sure guarantee that nothing will be accomplished. We know the Republicans want him to fail; will he continue to buy into their game? Is it all just about collusion down there? Why isn't the president fighting harder for the things that he campaigned on?

I'd like to know whose interests are really being served.


If I had my way, I would make them investigate what's been going on in this country for the past 40 or 50 years. There's been some really shady stuff going on behind the scenes for a long time, and our government keeps letting the criminals get away. It's little wonder that many people working within the government are corrupt. Why wouldn't criminals be attracted to positions of authority? There's clearly no punishment for committing even the most heinous crimes -- torture, for instance --and you can get really rich and powerful in the process.

It's a damn shame.

[cliffordu]

25. Is there any real proof of a backroom deal??

Or is this story just another smear?

[Barack_America]

26. How 'bout the complete and utter lack of support for the PO coming from the WH?

:shrug:

[cliffordu]

30. I'm sure that's all the proof we need.

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

33. Oh don't worry, I wasn't expecting you to take the blinders off. nt

[cliffordu]

34. Here in the real world where humans actually live and work

we have no need for blinders.

But thanks for playing.

Still, no one has answered the simple question I asked. Typical.

[kpete]

70. an answer

I hope that we are wrong and that Obama pull's the rabbit out of the hat at the last minute...
kp

[cliffordu]

82. Me too, man, me too.

[rhett o rick]

109. If you disagree with the OP, please tell us your side. With real proof of course. nt

[JTFrog]

144. Why? Apparently no proof is required to side with anonymous sources.

:shrug:

[rhett o rick]

148. Let me get this straight. The OP isnt giving a good argument so therefor you wont either.

Did I get that right? I hope not, because that's playground behavior. Some of us are looking for reasonable arguments from either side.

[laughingliberal]

42. No, it's the same type of 'rebuttals' we heard about the PhRMA deal

denial and demands for proof to the bitter end. Then, Tauzin blew the whistle on it when someone mentioned possibly going for $100 billion in savings over 10 years. He forced the White House to admit to and defend their deal with him. It is my opinion this is why Tauzin is out and Obama is not honoring his deal with PhRMA completely, anymore.

But I'm sure there correct about this. Karen Igagni was quite confident she would not be having to worry about a public option back in August but I'm sure it was just wishful thinking on her part.

[slipslidingaway]

44. I'm thinking the WH knew they would have to give more which led

to Tauzin resigning, I asked at the time if the deal would still stand.

:shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

46. We knew about the phRMA deal as it was announced at the time.....

as was Tauzin being involved.....going all the way back to March.

What is interesting is how every one has known pretty much what was happening
as it was happening, cause we heard the bitchin' all along,
and now, folks act like they've discovered something.

Quite entertaining, but doesn't really get anymore at the truth as
calling Obama a Socialist.

[laughingliberal]

50. The only part announced at the time was that PhRMA had agreed to put $80 billion in saving

over 10 years.We did not find out about protecting them from allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices or the promise to block reimportation until much later.

And I have never called Obama a socialist. A little socialism would be nice at this point.

[FrenchieCat]

56. That deal fell through, last I checked.....

I'm saying that whether it is the Left or the Right looking for the nefarious,
at the end of the day, it's just a sky high pile-on which is not justified
in the way that you would suspect.

[laughingliberal]

76. The only part of the deal that has fallen through is the amount to close the donut hole has been

increased to close it completely by 2020. Originally, it was only to reduce the amount the beneficiary would pay from full price to 50% while in the donut hole. As it stands before HCR they pay full price for drugs while in the donut hole. Now, that will be reduced to paying the 25% that is the typical co-pay for drugs under Medicare part D by 2020. They are also stopping the practice of allowing brand name drug companies to pay generic companies to keep generics off the market has been addressed by the President's bill.

These are certainly improvements.

The other promises the White House made to PhRMA that still stand are: Medicare is not allowed to negotiate drug prices (which would save $300 billion and avoid the need for a good chunk of the cuts to Medicare). And the promise to avoid allowing reimportation still stands. Now, I heard the White House has said they support reimportation but they took an active hand in defeating Dorgan's amendment and I notice it is not in the President's bill.

So, you are partially correct. Part of the deal fell apart. Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices is still illegal and reimportation is still illegal.

I don't pull my statements out of thin air, Frenchie. I, actually, posted an OP about part of the deal falling apart on Tuesday and heralded it as a breakthrough. Was surprised to not see more responses to it supporting this important breakthrough. But, it does not constitute the deal falling apart. Part of the deal has fallen apart. Some very important parts of it still seem to be intact.

on edit: I, also, noted the parts of the deal which have fallen apart in post #39.

[hulka38]

177. I look forward to your posts laughingliberal.

[laughingliberal]

191. Why, thank you very much

:blush:

[cliffordu]

57. Right on the money again, Frenchie.

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

43. Welcome to the dark side :) and I mean that sincerely. n/t

[dem mba]

81. also the heath care industry has been shockingly agreeable

about the need for reform. That really surprised me when this whole reform movement was ramping up. I remember wondering what concessions they must have received just to present such an open mind to the public on this.

[Hardrada]

27. By their fruits ye shall know them.

[cliffordu]

32. 'Your mouth is your religion.'

(Love, FZ)

[readmoreoften]

132. Well, that's a crock of shit. If you believe what comes out of politicians' mouths

you're a damn fool.

[Hardrada]

167. Can one walk upon hot coals and his feet not be burned?

An American populace pissed off by Rahmbot duplicity will be a grave peril.

[winyanstaz]

53. That is true..regardless of your religion....

I always watch what people DO and not what they SAY.
It's good advice.

[Mithreal]

51. Check the visitor logs and follow the money.

[cliffordu]

83. LOL.

[olegramps]

75. Don't you believe that it is confirmed by Obama's lack of action to include PO?

[cliffordu]

84. What, that he cut a deal with the insuracnce companies over cigars and a brandy??

Fuck no, that's just stupid.

[grytpype]

28. "Paying Medicare rates" is the key phrase here.

A public option that paid Medicare rates could cost hospitals, doctors, etc. a lot of money if there were a lot of people enrolled.

So the House public option doesn't pay Medicare rates.

No, it is not a big meanie conspiracy by the Manchurian Meanie and his corporatist stooges.

[FrenchieCat]

38. That's ok. Don't expect DUers to have actually read the article.

That would be asking way too much.

[Political Heretic]

169. We can of course, expect you to skip parts

..as per usual.

[Political Heretic]

168. "Or controlled by HHS..." Pretty important phrase too that means, ANY public option.

[Nikki Stone1]

35. Matt Taibbi told us this was the case.

We were sold out before it began.

[FrenchieCat]

41. The story is dated August.......and there were stories prior to that

that spelled out much of what was going on as it was going on....
Which is why Matt Taibbi had his version.

We weren't sold out....we just had our own expectations,
and thus far, the PO still isn't dead.

[Political Heretic]

170. No my "expectations" came right out of the 2008 campaign platform document

[slipslidingaway]

39. The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: Pledges, Agendas, Tactics And Likely Rewards The ..

Insurance Industry

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/24/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-pledges-agendas-tactics-and-likely-rewards-the-insurance-industry/

Posted by John Geyman MD on Monday, Aug 24, 2009

"In May, 2009, President Obama held a high-profile event in the White House, convening leaders from the health care industry to a meeting to discuss reform of the U. S. health care system. Participants included representatives from the insurance, drug, medical device, and hospital industries as well as business, labor and organized medicine. This “alliance” for health care reform produced a voluntary, unenforceable “commitment” to reduce the costs of health care by 1.5 percent, which would amount to some $2 trillion over the next 10 years. Promises were vague, such as promising to “cut both overuse and underuse of health care by aligning quality and efficiency initiatives”. The White House was quick to call the meeting “an historic day, a watershed event, because these savings will help to achieve comprehensive health care reform.”

Subsequent weeks and months, however, soon showed the “charm offensive” by major stakeholders in our medical industrial complex to be a sham alliance as their real agendas and differences among each other became more obvious. In this and the following posts, we will revisit each major group’s pledges, agendas, tactics and likely rewards as the national debate over health care reform intensified in Congress and across the country..."


The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform – II. The Drug Industry
Posted by John Geyman MD on Monday, Aug 24, 2009

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/24/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-ii-the-drug-industry/


The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: III. The Hospital Industry
Posted by John Geyman MD on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/27/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-iii-the-hospital-industry/


Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: IV. Business
Posted by John Geyman MD on Tuesday, Sep 1, 2009

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/01/corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-ii-business/


The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: V – Organized Medicine
Posted by John Geyman MD on Tuesday, Sep 1, 2009

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/01/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-v-%e2%80%93-organized-medicine/


The Corporate “Alliance” For Health Care Reform: Serving Themselves Or The Public?
Posted by John Geyman MD on Friday, Sep 4, 2009

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/09/04/the-corporate-%e2%80%9calliance%e2%80%9d-for-health-care-reform-serving-themselves-or-the-public/

[ipaint]

45. +1. Can it get more obvious. nt

[slipslidingaway]

48. Not to some of us ...

:hi:

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[winyanstaz]

52. K & R...this is big news and needs to be spread far and wide....

Not to worry though.
We know this is just another "brilliant Chess move."

[ChicagoSuz219]

54. The REAL reason is that...

...they still don't have all the votes for it. If/when they hand him a BILL with the Public Option in it, he will sign it in a New York minute, gleefully.

[laughingliberal]

77. I have little doubt if the President had insisted on it in unwavering terms,

he and Reid could have rounded up the votes. And if this had not worked, he could have called out the obstructionists as being against the needs of the American people. This would have been good politics. All he would have had to say, had it not been passed, is "There are those who place the powerful above the people. I think this bill is a good start but I will still be working to see a public option created before I leave office." The fact that his CofS slammed the activists who were running ads to get support for the public option suggests they did not want the votes for it. Now, we're running ads again. Maybe we can put some heat on the obstructionists now. But it would have been more effective in August when they shut us out and it would be more effective with the President behind it.

[ChicagoSuz219]

183. Still needed the votes...

Is there a way they can add it as an Amendment thru reconciliation after the big bill passes? Anyone know?

Right now, I'm slightly freaked out about Stupak & the House votes! Keep a good thought...

[Frank Booth]

55. Strategery.

Rahm's not only an asshole, he's also an idiot.

[emsimon33]

58. Obama--What a scam! Just a puppet on a string.

[Jkid]

59. I simply can't beleive this.

He promised a public option, then quietly and slowly did not mention it in it's future talks about health care reform.

Now we get this, a classic backdoor deal, the same type of stunt that the Democratic Congress did to allow TARP to happen. Once again, "Change" my ass.

[tavalon]

61. They may trust the White House but I do not.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AzDar]

66. K & R

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Faryn Balyncd]

68. Anthony Weiner should amend his remarks to include at least 50% of those on his own side of the aisl

aisle....(and, unfortunately, the white House.)

Sometimes the hurtful truth must be told.

K&R




:hi:



:kick:



"If Barack Obama’s bill gets changed to exclude the public entities, it is not health insurance reform…it rises and falls on whether the public is allowed to choose Medicare if they’re under 65 or not. If they are allowed to choose Medicare as an option, this bill will be real health care reform...."

- Howard Dean

[slipslidingaway]

79. Dems need to be honest about who is keeping a national HC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7788052&mesg_id=7790472

off the table.

As much as we would like to blame the Republicans, we must acknowledge that Our Party has silenced what the majority of citizens want ... a national HC system financed by taxes.

We are constantly told that our party is fighting those nasty corporations who deny people HC and raise premiums year after year.

What we hear from the Dem leaders and what we witness happening are two totally different things.

As long as we play their game of the Republicans obstructing what the Dems really want, we will continue to be at the mercy of the private investors who profit denying care to those in need.

Obama has done this and so did Clinton before him, nothing really has changed.

[Dr.Phool]

139. Exactly what went through my mind when I heard it.

[Vinnie From Indy]

69. That Obama had cut a deal with Big Insurance was OBVIOUS last summer

The only explanantion for the trajectory of HCR since Obama's inauguration was that a deal had been struck. The deal was that Obama would PUBLICLY campaign for a PO knowing that he would NEVER see an HCR bill with one hit his desk for signature.

It also seems that Obama's choice to promise Big Insurance that there would be no public option in private while campaigning on a PO turns out to have been a mistake. Obama is learning that in these times, it is next to impossible to serve two masters - the American public AND Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Energy, Wall Street and the rest. Obama needs to take to heart that he is only getting one shot at history and his cynical, backroom dealings, business as usual politics in Washington insures he has a failed Presidency.

[Faryn Balyncd]

74. . . . ? . . . ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7791903#7792012

[olegramps]

78. Remember how "shocked" we were concerning Cheney's secret energy meetings?

The sell out to the pharmaceutical, hospital and heath insurance industries appears to be as significant as Cheney's backroom deals. The fact is that at least Cheney's actions, whether you agree with them or not, were driven by the Project for the New American Century, PNAC, neo-con philosophy that control of the Middle East would assure the well being of the United States for the next century. Its similarity to the PNAC philosophy is that it assures the wellbeing of the health care industry for years to come at the expensive of the working class.

I don't in the least minimize the cost of the war and casualties there nitwit concepts resulted in, but this is a rip off of staggering proportions that doesn't serve the interest of the working class. Obama's deal assures that the richest will be allowed to rip off the citizens for only God knows how long.

It appears that Obama is too damn naive and got us screwed big time. These guys have to be laughing their heads off how they took this sucker for a ride. Oh yeah we will cut prices, wink, wink. Hell they no sooner cut this deal then the jacked up the prices to more than compensate for their concessions that will never materialize because there aren't any guarantees. Its just like the deal with he banks. The administration is all over itself celebrating how they passed credit card reform that was delayed long enough for the banks to raise the interest rates to usury levels. Yes, the administration has had some successes, but only in minor areas where the opposition was minimal. Obama's program of bipartisanship is an absolute disaster of the first order.

[DisgustedInMN]

85. I agree with most ..

.. of what you said, with this one rather significant exception:

Barack Obama is far from being "too damn naive" and as to the screwing we're getting, it's coming just as much from his administration, as anyone else. This corporatist shill knows EXACTLY what he is doing and just like the POS he replaced, will do anything necessary to achieve his ends. The biggest problem is, that what the Obama Administration is doing and what would be good for We the People, are two VERY different things. We have been suckered.

[Lorien]

87. Spot on. nt

[olegramps]

88. I agree, but don't you think that he is too committed to bipartisanship?

This was a major theme throughout his book, Audacity of Hope. This "go along to get along" is a prescription for maintaining the status quo.

[DisgustedInMN]

112. He may well be..

.. but it seems much more likely, after watching him bend over backwards to AVOID talking to the very people who worked their asses off for his campaign for their ideas as to what needs done. There have been people ARRESTED for trying just get a "seat at the table" he claims will be open to any and all ideas. That isn't "bipartisan," that's out and out fraud. As a result, he has lost credibility with a large percentage of those of us that used to be his strongest advocates. I, to put it quite simply, don't trust a thing he says any more. And that, is nobody's fault but his own.

[olegramps]

145. Yes, the situation is distressing.

[1776Forever]

80. 'We trust the White House,' Mr. Kahn said." says it all.

And how much was this in the works before this summit? How much did the President's advisers have to do with this? All questions I would like to have answered!

[uponit7771]

86. ***********THIS STORY HAS NO PROOF OF ALIGATIONS!!!!*********

[cliffordu]

91. That's right.

[Ikonoklast]

129. Slow day at the PIgsty.

No facts, just like Faux, but these 'progressives' swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

Obama is also a Mooslim, doncha know.

[Dr.Phool]

140. **********ALIGATORS EITHER!!!!!!!**********

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Echo In Light]

90. Profits over people = the american way

[JanForFairness]

186. It is time the corporations serve America

It is time that the wealthy and the elitists give back and save lives, instead of compromise for greed.

Give us our healthcare, too many other nations are quickly surpassing us in lifespan!

[on point]

92. Obama chooses sides now, People vs Corps, This decides election 2012

I wonder if Obama realizes that this IS his Waterloo. Ho chooses which side he is on, that of the corporations and special interests or that of the people. He chooses now, and this will determine his re-election. Because I suspect a lot of people are like me. They are deciding here and now if they will support him in the next election based on what he does now.

I'm afraid he is not looking good and will be a one term president.

[Echo In Light]

97. It won't matter. ANY candidate vested interests deem "electable" will simply be another phony

And our dim bulb populace will fall for it again, and again, and again, and again ...

[cameozalaznick]

93. Yep... well let them

pay for his re-election campaign, because as it stands now, I'm not giving another dime.

[Freddie Stubbs]

98. I Congress had actually passed a bill, there would not have needed to a WH plan

[Hardrada]

166. What are you trying to say here? Or is this just typical blue dog

blue balled obscurantism?

[leeroysphitz]

100. The scumbag lobbyists can "trust the Whitehouse" too bad we can not.

I am SO not voting for Obama again.

[Cleita]

104. This is the reason that makes most sense.

The real reason is that Obama made a backroom deal last summer with the for-profit hospital industry that there would be no meaningful public option.

This and the back room deal with the big PhRMA companies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html

Real health care was DOA because of these deals.

[newspeak]

110. I just wanted to add a story to our health care dilemma

My hubby's cousin married a Canadian about two years ago. He comes and visits about twice a year. Now, he's a very conservative sort of fella, and always defended *'s actions. We'd have "discussions" over the years about the wars and * policies. He's an EMT and worked in a "right to work" state. Well, this Christmas he came for a visit and said some things that made my jaw drop. He was telling us that he actually gets paid more working in Canada than he did in the states, and he does pay more taxes. But then he said, that he doesn't mind paying the taxes because he can go to the doctor when he wants. He said "you don't know what a relief it is not having to worry about doctor bills-and I'm getting older, I feel more comfortable knowing I don't have to worry about drug, medical expenses. :wow:

He absolutely floored me. This man is no liberal, but it did take him two years of living there to admit that he doesn't mind paying taxes and loves the health care he gets.

[Enthusiast]

160. Thanks for sharing that.

This piecemeal attempt(?)at heath care reform we are witnessing is a joke. There is only one solution and that solution is a not for profit single payer socialized heath care system.

Imagine how one manufacturing industry after another in the U.S. has been decimated by outsourcing. Yet, we have an insurance industry that collects massive profits for only administering claims and denying care. If ever there was an industry deserving of obsolescence it is the insurance industry. We should see them as vermin because that is what they are. They are no better than the thieving wall street criminals.

[tpsbmam]

111. Just another liar & smarmy politician.

Sorry, folks, but I get lots of shit around here when I've occasionally criticized Obama. I've been a diehard supporter of his and, long past the time when many around here were lambasting him, I was trying to separate out his actions so that I could balance what I viewed as the good and the bad, overall still pretty strongly supporting him. I had hope when he (and a majority of Democrats) were elected. That hope isn't entirely gone, but it's substantially dimmed. As for President Obama, lately, between the actions of his Justice Dept; his despicable secretive deals with Pharma, the for-profit hospitals industry and others; continuing Bush's state secrets policy; his DOJ vociferously arguing in favor of warrantless spying on Americans, with what many consider a more extreme position than the Bush admin; the administrations refusal to confront & deal with the Bush administrations national & international criminal activities and so much more. I'm just plain disgusted. To be sure, I still see things he's done that I view as commendable. But overall, yes, I'm starting to see him as just another lying, smarmy politician. He's just one who I'm sure I'd personally like and who talks an eloquent good game but then goes behind ordinary American's backs and stabs them in the back all in favor the rich & powerful in this country.

Here is another important quote from the NY Times article noted in the OP:

Not to worry, Jim Messina, the deputy White House chief of staff, told the hospital lobbyists, according to White House officials and lobbyists briefed on the call. The White House was standing behind the deal, Mr. Messina told them, capping the industry’s costs at a maximum of $155 billion over 10 years in exchange for its political support.

:thumbsdown: :grr:

[WinkyDink]

113. Why did he want the power, then, if not to exercise it the way he promised?

[alfredo]

115. Don't you think the exchanges are a form of public option? They work like

the Federal Employee Health Benefit plan. I'm using that and I like it.

[Raine]

117. Sad that we were sold out that way

I knew there had to be dirty deal somewhere. x(

[freddie mertz]

118. K & R. This is beginning to make more sense now.

I always more or less knew we were being lied to at least by August, when the PO began to suddenly shrink in size and importance.

The question now is: what to do next?

Clearly we have been lied to and betrayed by this White House.

Is this end of the Democratic Party for the next ten, twenty, fifty years?

[uponit7771]

119. *****THIS STORY IS MAKING SHIT UP!!!!!!*********

[DisgustedInMN]

128. It is?

Perhaps then you can provide a reasoned explanation for the actions of the Administration in deep sixing Single Payer right off the bat and steadfastly refusing to stand up for what VAST MAJORITY of Americans have said they want in poll after poll?

[uponit7771]

150. No votes for it, now again *******THIS ARTICLE IS A BUNCH OF HE SAID SHE SAID!!!!!*******

[DisgustedInMN]

157. Your reply makes absolutely no sense.

And in no way, shape or form address the very straight forward question I asked you. I take it then, that you either don't have or don't know the answer. 'Nuff said.

[nashville_brook]

178. ah, but the allcaps and asterisks are oh so convincing.

[Enthusiast]

161. I wish it was.

I fought with beloved family members during the primary when they said they would vote for Hillary. I sent candidate Obama money before the election. And I cried during the inauguration.

But I will not vote for Barack Obama next election.

[Christa]

120. K & R nt

[asdjrocky]

121. People continue to die, at a rate of 120 a day, while the money rolls in.

Tell me, how much is your life worth?

What do you think it is worth to corporations?

What do you think it is worth to our elected officials?

[Blackhatjack]

126. Deals made with organized crime are also illegal and therefore unenforceable...n/t

[howmad1]

184. Who ever said "Crime does not pay".....

.....is an idiot! Just ask any politician.

[awnobles]

127. The Democratic party is a wholly owned.....

A big part of it anyway. Realistically enough of the Democrats are that the party functions as such.

[BrklynLiberal]

133. K&R

[demwing]

135. Nice spin

Here's the actgual quopte from the Times

"Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates — or controlled by the secretary of health and human services."

No misleading emphasis.

There is a difference between "not include a government-run health plan" and "not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates"

Don't you think?

[t0dd]

138. Yeah, let's make sure we get the details straight

Doesn't matter that he made a deal with the for-profit hospital lobby, since he negotiated away only a robust public option, and not a meaningless one..

:sarcasm:

[demwing]

159. I've already lost faith

so I'm not going to argue, but I DO believe it important to not smurf on the truth, especially when the truth is on your side.

[democracy1st]

136. K & R

[colsohlibgal]

142. Talked The Talk - But The Walk Was Selling Us Out

Obama said a lot of good things when he was running then got right to kissing up the corporate behind once elected. He has, in so many ways, been a bitter disappointment to me and many others

[Demoiselle]

146. Please explain ...

"The other was a deal with the for-profit hospital lobby to limit its cost reductions to $155 billion over 10 years in exchange for a White House promise that there would be no meaningful public option."

This phrase about "limiting cost reductions to 155 billion over ten years" appears in both the August NYTimes article and the Huffington Post posting.
What does it mean? To limit cost reductions seems to me to mean they'll allow costs to RISE. So does that mean, the the White House agrees that for-profit hospitals are allowed to charge 155 billion more in the next ten years, and without this deal, they'd be raising their charges by much more?
I need education in this.
Thanks.

[alp227]

147. The people need some good lobbyists. K&R.

Why can't someones stand up for the millions of uninsured Americans if there are plenty who can stand up for those greedy, multimillionational health insurance industry pigs?

[LiberalEsto]

152. I'll be hornswoggled

And in fact, I was.

I am REALLY sorry now that Hillary didn't win the nomination and get elected.


K&R, kpete!

[Enthusiast]

164. She would have done the very same.

Sorry but look at her husband. He sold out to the free traders and the deregulationists.

These politicians are more actors than anything else.

[asdjrocky]

181. Hillary would have been no different.

Just look back at the first Clinton that was President.

[DisgustedInMN]

194. Absolutely correct.

Both Clintons are complete and total Corpracrats. Owned by the corporate fatcats and nothing more than Republican Lite.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cjbgreen]

158. Will he ever take a stand?

Deals with Insurance companies!
Deals with Pharma!
Deals with Banks!
Deals with Blackwater!
War crimes not prosecuted!
Public Schools dismantled!
War escalated!
and nuclear power plants!
Grand words and disastrous compromises!
Never has a President had more support for policies that can change the course of this country and protect shift the advantage away from greed and capricious disregard for humanity!

I am finding it impossible to distinguish between Republicans and the Democrats. Democrats pretend to care. I used to think Ralph Nader was passionate but cynical and wrong. I was wrong. I will no longer make any donations to the democratic party. I will support individual candidates. I do not think our President recognizes how difficult it is becoming to support him and believe in him and how every day life gets harder for middle class Americans. We have become a corrupt and amoral country.

Just one, one policy that protects the people,

[elehhhhna]

162. Welcome to DU. Now expect to have your ass flamed for

the Nader reference.

Duck & cover!

[Cali_Democrat]

172. Unrec'd

I have yet to see any REAL evidence of a backroom deal. :thumbsdown:

[merkins]

179. K&R!

How many people are going to die because of this?

[SlingBlade]

182. Lack of Principles ?

[Imagevision]

193. Big biz founded the country they will always run it, Repug or Demo makes NO difference - you'll see.