Good God People! A woman just died today! Can you save your "free the animals" agenda

[Touchdown]

for just one fucking day? At least wait until her body is cold?

[Lil Missy]

1. She was trying to circumcise the whale.

Nuff said.

[Barack_America]

2. Wait, what?

[Touchdown]

4. She might be harking back to an old thread.

We might have had a conversation about circ'ing. I can't remember everything I write though. :hi:

[Lil Missy]

LOL!

[Kievan Rus]

3. k & r

[flvegan]

5. My compassion for both human and other animals can work at the same time.

[Touchdown]

6. Well here's a news flash.

The whale is alive. No need to mourn him yet.

[flvegan]

8. How is that a news flash?

Yes, a woman is dead. That's a horrible shame. Yes, this whale has suffered in captivity for years. That's a horrible shame.

See, you can try giving a shit both ways now.

[Donnachaidh]

61. pretty damned talented to give a shit both ways

dontcha think?

[arcadian]

12. Okay non sequitur

[Touchdown]

17. Okay red star

Care to explain?

[Maru Kitteh]

13. No they can't.

I know, because I read DU every day and you cannot possibly care about animals and humans at the same time. I'm sorry you didn't get the memo. Please report to reeducation camp forthwith.

[flvegan]

18. Reeducation camp again?

Dammit. Why can't a good liberal be left to think for themselves.

[Maru Kitteh]

41. It's all good. Dr. Kitteh has some kick-ass seitan on the grill.

And we have your usual room ready.

[joeybee12]

7. She'd be alive if places like Sea World weren't in it for the money...n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. Yeah the whale was striking out against capitalism. nt

[Touchdown]

11. So I guess you can't wait until her body's cold then.

At least your honest.

[arcadian]

21. The morbidity of your posts lets me know that you are less than sincere.

[Touchdown]

24. red star

No words other than drive by pop psych evals. Yeah, your credible.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. I say we slaughter the orca to set an example to the others.

Fucking goddamn fish.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. Like the South Park episode.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polichick]

15. Why - it wouldn't have happened if the animal had been free. nt

[CountAllVotes]

16. no problem

my best friends in life are animals, both human and the ones deemed to be "animals". :+

[merh]

19. You can ignore the threads.

You can stay off line for a day.

You have options.

[Touchdown]

23. A DUer works at that very Sea World and is giving first hand accounts

of what's going on. I'd like to stay informed if that's alright with you.

That thread is also a forum for others to use the attack as an excuse to get sanctimonious. So what's your next brilliant suggestion?

[merh]

36. I don't know the woman, but it sure looks to me that she loved her

job and the animals.


File photo of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau, who was killed during an accident at the park Wednesday, February 24, 2010. (ORLANDO SENTINEL FILE / December 30, 2005)

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-seaworld-orlando-shamu-injury-20100224,0,942688.story


It would be a tragedy if they put the whale down because he was being a whale.

[iamjoy]

55. Yep, You Got It

I believe the trainers love their jobs and the animals with whom they interact. I also believe that not only would they not want the animal put down as the result of an incident like this, but they know and accept the risks involved in working with these creatures.

As for whether it's right for Sea World to keep these creatures, well, there's a lot worse things done to animals for various purposes. The efforts of companies like Sea World have helped us to learn about sea mammals and make a connection with them. The "bond" with animals is enhanced when we have a chance to see and relate to them. This leads humans to care a little more about the fate of those animals in the wild than they otherwise would have. I'm not naive, I know Sea World is in it for the money. I also know that whether the motive is profit, education or fun as long as we humans interact with "wild" animals there are going to be tragedies like this. The question is, is it worth it? For some it is.

[Shell Beau]

20. If this woman loved the animal as much as I imagine Iwould, she wouldn't

want the animal to be put down. I imagine she loved whales or she wouldn't be working with them. You can be saddened by this woman's death, sad for her friends and family, sad for those who witnessed the event, and still be concerned about the whale. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[KathieG]

29. Absolutely

[blueamy66]

43. Wonderful post.

Absolutely spot on!

[Tippy]

22. The crime here is that the Orca was being held hostage for monitary gain....

[Touchdown]

26. So your answer is no then.

You really can't wait a day. Ok, thanks!:hi:

[Tippy]

57. Sorry had to make some phone calls...Yep my answer is no...

Now I admit have been to Sea World, and I paid money, and I felt guilty after. I have always had a fasinaton with Orcas and Dolphins. But I still feel it is wrong to cage any wild thing. I really enjoyed whale watching off Plymouth. The last time we went it was almost as if the Whales were putting on their own show...And what they did to poor Willy was horrible....Well I'll take my leave again...have a good rest of the night.

[Initech]

25. Sorry I don't get to spend 24/7 on DU - did I miss something here?

[Emit]

27. lol, I hear ya. Here's the referenced link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7786602&mesg_id=7786602

[Touchdown]

28. An Orca mauled a trainer at Orlando Sea World.

Every thread with developing news is being hijacked by calls to liberate the animals. Where were they yesterday when she was still alive?

[Shell Beau]

30. Sometimes it takes tragedies to remind us.

I am very sorry for her. I really am. I am very sorry for those mourning her too. I have been there. I have mourned the loss of someone very very close to me.

I am sorry for the animals too. It is sad that it takes tragedies for us to realize that these animals are best left in the wild. I don't understand why you don't think we can be sad at the same time that we are worried about these animals. I would rather have her here than the whale, but now that isn't an option. A tragic shame.

[Touchdown]

31. Because it comes off as calloused.

Nobody is outright saying, but, based on the tone of some of the posts, I think some here are actually glad she was killed, because she was Anheuser Busch's enabler. Almost a "See what you get!" type of self congratulatory affirmation.

[Shell Beau]

33. I can't imagine anyone is glad she was killed, and if they are then they

are very sick minded.

[seeinfweggos]

42. +1 nt

[ThomCat]

34. Who the fuck are you to tell people what to talk about and what not to?

We aren't at her funeral, so save the decorum lessons.

:wtf:

Since when can someone dictate that for an entire day an entire topic is off limits for any reason. And since when are you the dictator who would get to decide?

That's just asinine.

Calm the fuck down.

[Touchdown]

35. I had 2 question marks in that OP

Don't accuse me of dictating anything.

[ThomCat]

38. Yeah, and all up and down this thread you're insulting people

and putting words in people's mouths because they didn't do what you want. :eyes:

You're like a crazy person at a funeral shouting "cry louder" to make sure people show respect.

[KonaKane]

40. Glad to see I'm not the only one to notice this.

A real piece of work, this guy.

[Touchdown]

44. That what you think I'm doing?

Would you rather I just did a drive by?

[KonaKane]

45. That's definitely what you are doing.

And its good to see others catching you in it.

[Touchdown]

46. I'm still not going to have sex with you

Trottle off!

Now ThomCat can get me for bossing somebody around.

[ThomCat]

48. I would rather you being so beligerant to everyone

and not post such flamebait to begin with.

[KonaKane]

49. Wait till you read some of his other little gems around the board.

Better yet, maybe not. Not without a motion sickness bag.

[Touchdown]

51. Alright, in all honesty here.

I know myself enough to admit that one button people push on me is knee jerk sanctimony, and I saw so much of it in the last three hours since the mauling story broke. So knowing that, I can admit that I reacted a bit too harshly to it and am a bit defensive (Okay, quite defensive) in my own thread, because I made the mistake of inviting that trigger of mine into my own thread.

We all have triggers, and that's not the only one I got, but that button was pushed. It still doesn't change my POV... that I think a woman dying is important to recognize without a "lesson learned", but I admit that I'm more combative than I need to be... Ok, much more.

[Cetacea]

54. It's a sad tragedy. Everyone gets it.

[pipi_k]

37. I'm sorry for her family, but...

I wonder what the trainer was thinking...."Hmmm...this whale has killed two other people. I know! I'll go into the tank with it!"


Human stupidity knows no bounds, it seems.



SHE had a choice. The whale didn't.

[Touchdown]

39. All accounts of it was that he jumped out of the pool and grabbed her.

So that would be an erroneous assumption that she jumped into the tank. She was a senior trainer at the park, so I assume she'd been working there for quite a few years, and knew what she was doing.

[pipi_k]

62. Yes I did finally hear on the news this AM...

that an onlooker said she saw the whale jump out of the pool and grab the trainer's pony tail and pull her in.

[liberal_at_heart]

47. This board is no different than any other

People are not allowed to have different opinions. If they do they are attacked for them. I made the mistake of saying I was a zoo advocate once and boy did I ever get it. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of this trainer. I want to be a wildlife conservationist someday and these kinds of worries do go through my head every now and then but when you work with wildlife it is a danger you have to accept. I admire those who take care of animals despite the risk and hope to have the privilege of working with wildlife someday.

[KonaKane]

50. I agree with you. It's not quite what you expect.

I came here a little while ago thinking I was on the premiere Democratic/Liberal forum in the nation, and have already seen more than my bellyful of hatred, close mindedness, and petty bigotries of all kinds - especially if you are religious. Whoo, they really hate you if you're that.

Stay frosty.

[emilyg]

58. You expressed what I

so often wanted to.

[Touchdown]

56. My hat is off to you for going into such a career.

Only a few of us have the drive to pursue what we really love as a job. I hope you succeed.

Aside from the trainer's death, another tragedy lost in this is that we have gotten the majority of our knowledge of nature and the animal kingdom by observing and interacting with other species in zoos, theme and marine parks. Trainers, zoo keepers, park rangers and others who work at these places all have a vast education, and we learn from not only them, but from observing the animals up close. We even learned why Sigfried was grabbed by his tiger... that she was startled by a noise from the audience, and she was trying to protect him from it by grabbing him on the back of the neck (like all cats do with their young) to move him to safety. She didn't know he would be hurt. Anheuser Busch, the owners of Sea World and Busch Gardens animal parks, are held in high esteem for the attention and humane treatment of the animals in their care. They have state of the art vet clinics on every site that can handle almost any kind of illness/injury to any animal they have, no matter how big. Municipal Zoos would kill to have the resources AB has.

Is it wrong to hold animals captive? I don't have the answer to that. But, if we decided long ago that it is, then we'd be less knowledgeable about the world around us because of it.

Marlon Perkins, from Wild Kingdom, was known to stage fights between animals, and even wrestle them himself for entertainment (and he should be rightly criticized for it), but he was on every week, and taught us about the world we live in. Jacques Cousteau may have been a much better example of a benign observer, but even he wasn't guilt free of doing some damage to an animal from time to time. Even the Crocodile Hunter taught us about animals. Every time a Discovery or Disney Nature film is being shot, humans are invading a natural habitat to catch the action, in an effort to bring us knowledge about our world in a way that engages us (film/entertainment or "trick shows"), so we learn easier.

I can see the argument for not holding animals captive, but I can also see

[elana i am]

52. it's called stating the obvious (which also happens to be the logical conclusion)

we people put captive animals in the position to hurt us.

it's sad for her family, but logic tells me that this woman who worked with these whales was aware of the potential hazards and would not want people feeling sorry for her for dying in the process of doing what she loved. nor would she want the whale destroyed.

in a situation like this the victim is never the human, but the captive animal.

[emilyg]

53. k/r

[PeaceNikki]

59. If my natural habitat was the entire ocean,

and some jackhole moved me into a little tank, I'd get a little pissy every few years, too.

[Touchdown]

60. Your natural habitat is a fertile savannah in central Africa

... as all humans are. But you live in Wisconsin. You get pissy often?

[pipi_k]

64. Ummmm...did the person just move to Wisconsin from the Savannah?

there's a bit of a difference here.

Our species evolved from creatures that lived on the savannah. I doubt many of us feel some sort of emotional connection to a "home" we left hundreds of thousands of years ago.

A whale's species lives in the ocean. Even if the whale was born in captivity, it probably still retains the species "memory" of the generation or two before it.

[Cleita]

63. I lived out in the woods many years and one thing you learn is that

wild animals are just that. No matter how docile and people friendly they might become when you feed them, there is always the potential that they will turn on you. People who are professional animal trainers know that and that the animal they feel has bonded with them could turn in an instance and revert to their wild nature. So she knew the risks and may she rest in peace.

The bigger questions is the ethics of using exotic animals in circuses for our entertainment by corporations who are in the business for the money. They are not really concerned about the welfare of the animals nor the humans who work with them.

[pipi_k]

65. I still live in the woods...have great love and respect for the wild animals

no matter what they are.

We do feed the deer in the winter, and when Mr P fills the feeder, they'll go just far enough to take cover, but not far enough to be invisible. I'm glad that they still retain their fear of humans.

They look beautiful, but we know they can also be dangerous under the right conditions.

[Cleita]

66. Yes, especially a doe with a fawn.

When they start pawing the ground and stamping their foot, it's best to move in the opposite direction. They also make a little hissing sound as part of their warning. I used to feed a buck who managed to become a six pointer. He always came right up to me for his carrots and apples, like a horse, but I have to admit I was wary especially during rutting season when his antlers were sharp and he had changed colors. Well he disappeared one year so I guess the hunters got him. I always wondered if it was my fault because he was people friendly. I never befriended any of the deer after that.