SPYCAM: "Unusual" that the US Atty. CONFIRMS Criminal Probe,; ...... ACLU supports suit

[PCIntern]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100223_Lawyer__L__Merion_is_mum_on_number_of_webcam_pictures.html

the article is worth reading...

Tell you one thing: the Federal Judge involved, Jan DuBois, is a no-nonsense extremely reputable, above-the-fray jurist. His reputation here is stellar.

[hobbit709]

1. How long before the defenders of authoritarianism squawk?

Recd.

[Wizard777]

2. There is also another sideline issue. Hacking the school system to activate the cams.

It probably hasn't happened yet. But that's only because the target wasn't known. But it is now. So it's only a matter of time before it's hacked.

[JoeyT]

12. That's what I keep repeating to people.

Even if the school acted in good faith and only installed the software to locate stolen laptops like they claim, it's still an insane thing to do simply because anything can be compromised.

Even if we assume the computers have cutting edge security (Which high schools never have.) enough people in the administration would have access to the passwords to compromise the system. Even if we assume they're all saints (And they never are) at least one of them is going to have written down their password. Even if we assume they have the sense to write it down somewhere their kids can't get it, there's still the kids that may be waiting in their office and the janitors to worry about. It pretty much goes on and on.

I'm not assuming they acted in good faith, though. I'm guessing they're probably just authoritarian control freaks. School administrators usually are.

[pokerfan]

16. Students were so concerned that the green light was randomly lighting up

that they reported it to the school's IT department and were told that it was just "a glitch" and nothing to worry about. Hence they resorted to taping over the camera (which does nothing about the speaker BTW).

I'm skeptical about the school's "only 42 times and only in case of theft or lost laptops" story.

[depakid]

3. Egregious act, easy target

Nothing to lose and takes some heat off broader and more serious matters that have been ignored.

[MicaelS]

18. Disagree, privacy is still important, no matter what

The fact is these were kids, in their own home, and it was government doing it makes it just that much more egregious.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PCIntern]

5. AFAIC,

Her comments were not incisive enough, nor were they fact-based enough, to warrant upset on my part. I was and am gratified to see that most DUers understand my 'take' on the issue.

[druidity33]

6. i doubt we'll see

any word-eating if the plaintiff wins the suit. Just not her style...

:shrug:

[dgibby]

10. I've been following your posts since day one.

You and your family have every right to be outraged by this, and I personally hope someone is held accountable for this outrageous breech of your privacy.

I suspect that those here who have willfully chosen to ignore your distress and concern would be outraged if they found themselves in your situation. I commend you for your constraint in responding to them.

The potential for abuse of a stealth "bug" in someone's home cannot be understated. Child porn, blackmail, political payback-the list is endless.
Take for example the political ramifications: suppose you were caught on tape criticizing BUSHCO during the last admin. We all know how that admin. felt about their opponents. Next thing you know, you find yourself on a no-fly list and would never know how your got there.

When I was in the Navy, the hospital installed computer terminals throughout the entire building. Everything was tied into the the hospital's main servers, and although we didn't have Mic's or cameras, it was possible for It to remotely access and track all activity. This was not covertly done. We were all told we were being monitored, but the system was not without problems.

One of the chiefs was called away to an emergency and forgot to log off. Another individual, who was not mentally stable, posted some very inflammatory religious and political screeds and sent them to everyone in the command, including the CO. The chief who left his terminal open was accused of posting the "propaganda" and almost had his career ruined until someone figured out what had really happened. Needless to say, it was a huge wakeup call for the rest of us to be more vigilant about leaving our terminals open and unguarded.

Technology is wonderful, and I can't imagine life without my computer (even though I was dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming); however, technology in the wrong hands has the potential to be quite dangerous.

I sincerely hope you and the rest of the families involved are vindicated. I can only imagine what this has done to the children's' ability to trust, but I'd guess the sense of betrayal must be overwhelming. I hope the school system will provide counseling for those who need it. Good luck, and please keep us updated as the case unfolds.

[Hekate]

24. What you said. I appreciate PCIntern's updates very much. KnR.

[Lugnut]

33. I do as well.

I would be beyond outraged had this happend to my family.

[pokerfan]

21. I'm with PCIntern

[Lerkfish]

7. this paragraph makes me highly dubious

""We're trying to figure out what happened here," Henry Hockeimer, a former federal prosecutor retained by Lower Merion, told Judge DuBois. He said the district has hired computer forensic experts and promised the judge that "nothing would be destroyed" that is relevant to the webcam scandal."


Why no third party disinterested forensic experts, hmmmm?


this smacks of coverup to me.

[izzybeans]

14. It could also indicate that the district has reason to believe that

an employee used these cameras illegally without consent for unknown purposes. It would be against the districts interests to destroy evidence, they aren't the federal government or a big three accounting firm.

I read some weird stuff about an odd IT guy bragging about the panopticon he had access to. They could be building a case against him or whomever spied on the kids. It would still by a CYA move, but a move to clear the district if in fact the policy was not to spy.

In my day snooping principals stalked students trying to catch them partying. today's technology makes it easier for power hungry people like that and for perverts to go against policy and abuse their power.

My money is on the weird IT guy being a creepy voyeur.

[pokerfan]

19. I assume you've seen this video

from the recent PBS documentary Digital Nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vza_bMuy42M">Teachers spying on students through laptop webcams

Watch the Assistant Principal demonstrate the spycam tech: "They don't even realize that we're watching. I always like to mess with them and take their picture."

[izzybeans]

20. Nope, thanks for sending that though

I'll check it out when I get the chance. :)

[dmr]

29. Damn! I've got Digital Nation DVR'd

I will definitely watch it tomorrow.

I wouldn't want for me, or my son, or anyone to be monitored like this. It's too creepy, and I'd be forever paranoid.

Whatever happened to trust?

Thanks for posting the link.

[pokerfan]

31. I watched it when it aired

but had forgotten about that segment on spying until someone reminded me.

It's very similar to the spyware in the Lower Merion school case except in this case the student had to have opened the camera software themselves. In the Pennsylvania case, the school has admitted to installing spyware that allows them direct access to the camera whether the student has Photo Booth open or not.

It's uber-creepy and the assistant principle thinks it's funny. Probably more from a control-freak persepctive than a pedophiliac one, I would hope. In any case, a huge violation of privacy.

[Incitatus]

30. "My money is on the weird IT guy being a creepy voyeur."

Then how did the administrator get the picture of a student taken from his webcam? Did the weird IT guy give it to him because he was so concerned? I find that unlikely.

[pokerfan]

17. You know who's good at computer forensics?

[BR_Parkway]

8. Often you hear people say that kids today aren't taught critical thinking

skills and don't take responsibility for their actions.

This decision to include the spy cam on the laptops was approved by some group of adults - who obviously failed to do any critical thinking about what could happen and the potential for abuse even if they were convinced that there were beneficial reasons for having this technology (quite possible given the difference in knowledge of technology between generations)

So far, no one has been fired that I've seen. Yet, these people are entrusted to care for and protect students while educating them. Amazing

[PCIntern]

9. I have my own beliefs which I'm keeping private...

we'll see what happens here...

[Lerkfish]

11. my conjecture is

that the administrator either demanded or obtained access from the IT department on what she considered "problem" student's laptops.
Then, in a classic case of arrogant reasoning, felt that she could confront the child and the child would cow to her "authority" and confess to other incidents.
I definitely think that is what actually happened here, HOWEVER...

The point is that if this secret surveillance system could be activated like that, it could, and in my opinion WOULD be improperly used by someone in the IT staff either for themselves or for another administrator. Its a slippery slope. Once its "ok" to root out problem students, then its just a small step to monitoring all students, and then its a small step to watching minors get dressed and undressed.
Psychological research has shown that we as humans, in a situation where there are no consequences, cannot be trusted to remain virtuous in all cases.

[ikri]

22. From what I've read

The laptops have an anti-theft mechanism, the ability to view the laptop's surroundings via the webcam. Now, there's no way to know ahead of time what IP address a stolen laptop is going to be on, it isn't like you can whistle and wait for it to come running like a missing pet, so the only way to know where the laptop is when it is reported missing is to have the laptop "phone home" whenever there's an internet connection available.

I'd surmise that all of the laptops have been phoning home to the school whenever they're not on the school's LAN, possibly sending back images every few minutes in the event that the laptop is reported missing. For example, if the laptop goes missing on a Friday evening does the pupil wait until Monday morning to report it missing? What happens in the meantime, wouldn't you want the images that were transmitted back to the school over the weekend available for any investigation?

What the school does with the images that aren't later required is anybody's guess, but in this case it would appear that someone has been checking the images otherwise they'd have never seen the Mike and Ikes they've then presumed to be drugs.

[RainDog]

23. the images aren't required

they don't need to take pictures to track a computer.

they simply have it phone home. there is no reason for these webcams to be active when a student is not in a classroom which utilizes them.

they have crossed a HUGE boundary and they will be smacked for doing so, and rightly so.

[ikri]

25. I agree

But it does sound like a default behaviour that's never been disabled, after all there is some potential benefit to having those images later (if, as I wrote there's a time lag between the laptop going missing & it being reported as missing).

However, if it does have that capability it should have been disclosed up front and even then there's no way that a laptop given to a minor should have had that capability even if it was to keep the school safe from lawsuits.

What the school is alleged to have done in this case is sheer stupidity and whoever is responsible for setting up the programme will be lucky to avoid jail.

[RainDog]

27. no. there is no right to have the capacity to spy on students in their homes.

none.

they'll be lucky if they don't face charges of pedophilia.

but the big issues are invasion of privacy, overstepping authority and abuse of power and tech.

as it stands they may be looking at federal wiretapping charges.

this is not about tracking a computer. this is about violation of the 4th amendment.

[Iggo]

15. I'm with you.

Spycam. Laptop. High School girls.

What could possibly go wrong?

[PCIntern]

28. It's" funny"

your joke IS funny, and I laughed out loud...

but when it's your HS girl, it's just a bit less so.

but your quip was well-conceived...a DUzy (of sorts)...

[Iggo]

32. I've got one in HS and another in College.

I'm surprised (and glad) nobody's head has been torn off yet over this.

I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out how this meeting went when a group of adults agreed that this was a good idea. As soon as I read the very first headline from the very first article I ever saw about this story, my mind went through the progression in my previous post: spycam, laptop, high school girls. It didn't take me 5 seconds to realize what a bad idea that was. How it got beyond its first being suggested is beyond me.

[RainDog]

13. I read some blogs about this yesterday.

I included links them in this thread

it seems that some people who live in the district are speculating that the school district may have been trying to identify "student doe" in a lawsuit brought against the district over a question of redistricting... based upon race?

the stryde hax blog has some really interesting computer information.

[Edweird]

26. Good to hear.