Your Cell Phone Is A Tracking Device

[lib2DaBone]

I am not engaged in any activities I have to be fearful about. But.. FWIW.. if you ever talk to your attorney or (want to keep something confidential..) turn off your cell phone and TAKE THE BATTERY OUT.

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http://www.newsweek.com/id/233916

Law enforcement is tracking Americans' cell phones in real time—without the benefit of a warrant.

[Don Caballero]

1. More unfounded paranoia

Even if this is so, if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

[niyad]

5. "if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"? what part of the sheer

cluelessness of that comment do you fail to understand? it isn't about what the PEOPLE are doing, it is about a government gone amouk, violating the constitution, and turning this country into a freaking police state.

and don't bother telling me about conspiracy theories or whatever notion you comfort yourself with. this is serious, and the oblivious truly need to start paying attention.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beevul]

56. Keep in mind...has an authoritarian bent miles wide, and just as deep.

This is the same poster that espouses that all guns should be banned, and suggests the bring in of the Mexican and Canadian military to get the job done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x293831#293938

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x293831#293946

This poster also suggests that one can not take pictures in public, of people in general, and of law enforcement:

"You really shouldn't be taking pictures of law enforcement...Did they give you permission to record this?"

"So anyone can go on the street and film anything and everyone they want?"

Another poster asks "Would you want to make taking photographs of law enforcement personnel illegal?"

And he replies "Yes, if you are not given implicit permission by those you are taking photos of."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7759237#7759591



As another poster observed, this poster has an authoritarian bent miles wide, and just as deep.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[tonysam]

14. Many murder cases have been solved because

murderers don't realize their cell phones can be tracked. The same is true with murder victims having had cell phones with them when they died.

It's a GOOD thing they can be.

[closeupready]

16. We could probably solve more murders if the gov't. took everyone's DNA sample.

And kept it in a central database. Even children. Tourists, too.

Would you be okay with that?

[Don Caballero]

20. England has been doing this for years with great success

DNA databases are a progressive idea.

[ThomCat]

23. It is an EFFECTIVE idea. But definitely Not a progressive idea.

Progressives are rarely in favor of massive government warehousing of data about individuals. :(

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[closeupready]

29. Amen.

n/t

[closeupready]

28. To the contrary, sir. It is not a progressive idea. Progressives favor empowering the individual.

You have it backwards.

[Don Caballero]

33. Progressives believe in progression

Not only for the individual but for the state as well. DNA databases have the ability to solve any violent crime including rape and murder. If a friend or family member of mine was raped or murdered, I would want every available tool utilized in the search for the offender.

[ThomCat]

37. Your version of progress sounds like it would

look favorably upon totalitarianism. After all, if a government knows everything about everyone, and has total control, then it would really have the knowledge and authority needed to really take care of you. The fact that it would controls your entire life, and everyone else's too, might be a mere unpleasant side effect. :eyes:

[closeupready]

39. So I presume you are fine with waterboarding detainees?

What about wiretapping phone calls to your wife - if authorities were doing that, you'd be fine with that?

[Don Caballero]

40. I, like my President, am against torture

All torture, no exception.

[closeupready]

41. But if it saves lives, you said you were in favor of any effective tool to achieve that.

If the state says waterboarding 1) isn't torture; and 2) will save lives, then you have to agree that it should be done. Since if the state says waterboarding isn't torture, it isn't torture.

[Don Caballero]

43. Nope. Torture is never acceptable.

Those "24" scenarios are so far fetched and vile.

[closeupready]

44. When you sacrifice enforcement of the 4th Amendment, then all other civil liberties are at risk.

That's my problem with this story. You disagree, and that's fine, you seem reasonable.

Cheers. :hi:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. He also wants to have foreign soldiers confiscate all firearms from Americans.

[beevul]

57. And wants it to be illegal to film law enforcement without permission, N/T

[TheWraith]

49. Damn, you really DO want to live in a police state, don't you?

Seriously, what you advocate as "progressive ideas" are not progressive in the least. You have a strongly authoritarian bent to your thinking.

[Echo In Light]

22. Unless you haven't noticed, the US govt has repeatedly demonstrated its true Big Bro intentions

So, of course vested interests try to further police state infrastructure as 'good' even though there's clearly a true, ulterior agenda driving it.

[closeupready]

15. Has nothing to do with it.

This is about illegal search and seizure in violation of the 4th Amendment.

(Is it just me, or is DU really getting dumber?)

[ThomCat]

25. Some people, not everyone.

I wouldn't generalize to DU as a whole. DU isn't a homogeneous group.

[closeupready]

30. Sorry, you're right.

:hi:

[Gormy Cuss]

17. It's naive to think that this affects only those doing something wrong.

For example, is a union protest an illegal activity?

From the article:

But there is also plenty of reason to worry. Some abuse has already occurred at the local level, according to telecom lawyer Gidari. One of his clients, he says, was aghast a few years ago when an agitated Alabama sheriff called the company's employees. After shouting that his daughter had been kidnapped, the sheriff demanded they ping her cell phone every few minutes to identify her location. In fact, there was no kidnapping: the daughter had been out on the town all night. A potentially more sinister request came from some Michigan cops who, purportedly concerned about a possible "riot," pressed another telecom for information on all the cell phones that were congregating in an area where a labor-union protest was expected. "We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of abuse on this," says Gidari.

[ThomCat]

35. So without any warrants they have the names, phone numbers

call histories, and other information for every person participating in that union protest.

And, if they can identify key people from that information, they know know who to target even if nobody has done anything wrong. They know who to arrest or abuse.

And because they knew who the key people were, without those key people the movement falls apart.

That is definitely illegal search and seizure, and it is a hell of a lot of very useful, very powerful information. :(

[ixion]

32. "if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about"

there is so much wrong with that phrase that I don't even know where to begin. This is how Police States are enabled, by mindless statements like this.

[agent46]

47. More kneejerk dismissals n/t

[we can do it]

48. Don't Forget To Put Your Head Back In Sand

[Cetacea]

53. Never let a chance to diss conspiracy theory go undone, right?

Paleeze. Not to mention that there is no conspiracy theory here.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[randr]

2. Cell phones have the option to turn off the tracking function

You will still leave a footprint when calls are made.

[sui generis]

12. nope

GPS location can be turned off, it's true, but that's merely the easiest method of tracking you.

An interested party can triangulate any modern phone by its proximity to tower, station and repeater as long as it can receive a call signal and that's old-school tech.

You can also do other nasty tricks with phones that use digital roaming and always-on WiFi - with accuracy to within a half-mile radius in most urban and suburban locales, even with everything else turned off.

[randr]

21. As with any evidence the case must be made as to who is in possession of the tool

This also opens up some interesting scenarios regarding establishing phony alibis.
Could make for an interesting plot line.

[sui generis]

31. ohhhh I like that literary angle!

very good observation.

Also, it implies that one has explicit knowledge of their acquaintances' backgrounds and other interests, and criminalizes people for not knowing.

Kind of like criminalizing you for not I9-ing your domestic help . . .

[951-Riverside]

36. "GPS location can be turned off, it's true"

No, this is not true that only prevents consumer software like Mapquest Find Me from tracking your location. When you call 911 your location/coordinates are displayed even if that feature is off.

There are 2 methods of tracking 1. is triangulation where your location is determined based on the cellphone towers your phone connects to 2. is GPS where your phone is equipped with a GPS receiver and reports your location over a network.

Either way you're not getting around location tracking without removing all power to the phone (this includes batteries). OTOH none of this prevents anyone from sticking a GPS tracker on your car and good luck finding a 2-3 inch box tucked away on your car.

[sui generis]

50. it is true, depends on the phone

911 locatability is both a hardware and software setting -

[ThomCat]

18. That is not entirely true.

If your cellphone has any data features on it at all, the carrier can always tell which tower you are nearest. Your phone is always passively in contact with the tower, and they can tell where you are within a hundred feet or so.

If your cellphone is only a cellphone then they could only find you when you make a call. But these days, who has a cellphone that only makes phone calls?

:shrug:

[Gormy Cuss]

46. I recall that when I set up my phone the instructions stated that GPS can't be shut off from 911.

IOW, turning off the GPS function didn't disable it completely.

[niyad]

3. it doesn't matter about the activities in which you are engaged, what matters is the police state

that has been created, almost unremarked by the msm and the majority of the populace.

[Echo In Light]

4. Exactly. Not surprising, however, that many are frightfully unwary

By design, of course

[sui generis]

6. You want to fight it?

We need to get enough Sprint customers together to demand that any 3rd party access to our records triggers a notification to us that our records have been accessed, or we all walk our contracts.

The people who are going to go to the legislature to fight that bill, which doesn't change law enforcement's access but merely tells us, in real time, when we're being monitored, will be almost nobody since it's a private matter between service subscribers and our companies.

Seriously - we need to introduce a new FCC regulation that requires private customer be notified of third access to our phone records, without exception, and in real time if records are being accessed in real time.

We're not asking to know WHO is doing it, just that it's being done. . . .

[lib2DaBone]

11. +1 Great idea. That is a pro-active way to approach it...

...as you said.. that wont stop them from spying on Americans.. but it will let us know.

[lib2DaBone]

7. I did not know there was a way to turn off the tracking function...

Sounds like a good idea...

The only reason I mentioned it is in light of school laptops being sent home with the camera secretly activated. I keep hearing the drip-drip sound of our privacy being eroded.

I can't wait until the TSA Bodyscans show up on the Playboy Channel or Girls Gone Wild.

[Jim__]

8. Don't you realize that the government needs this information to fight the war on drugs.

And, also, the war on TERROR!!!

Surely you're not in favor of children using drugs or Al Queda attacking our country. Then, you can't be opposed to the government having access to this vital information.


And, if it's necessary ... :sarcasm:

[Echo In Light]

10. Two phony "war$" that go worse together!

[pipi_k]

13. Oh shit...they're probably monitoring our online purchases too...

so much for the Preparation H from Canada I was going to buy....


:cry:

[Echo In Light]

24. Yes, that's part of the corporate/state nexus: creating profiles based on all monitored actions

The techno police state is lucrative in many ways for vested interests.

[snagglepuss]

34. LOL nt

[pipi_k]

9. Does this also apply

to the rather basic cellphones?

Mine doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles.


In fact, it's an LG-vx5400. And I don't have web access or anything...


Just the basics...

[ManiacJoe]

59. It applies to all cell phones.

The basic functionality is what keeps the phone in contact with the system. The phone sends periodic pings to the towers to find the tower with the best reception. This is required of the system.

The catch is that the software running the system can use these pings to triangulate where you are given two or more near by towers. In just a single tower area, the system will know when you move away from one tower to the next.

This is how the phone knows how many "bars" it is getting from the system.

[woodsprite]

27. So the fact that 90% of the time mine is uncharged is a "good" thing!

I keep it turned off unless I need it to make an outgoing call.

[jpljr77]

38. And if your car has OnStar, your location can be tracked as well. So what?

It's a classic case of caveat emptor. These devices are specifically made to track locations (in the case of cell phones with GPS). Consumers should be aware of the fact that authorities may have access to the data from phone companies, which is why stories like this are good.

But ultimately, if you don't want to be tracked, then don't buy the device, or get rid of it when you don't want to be found.

[NightWatcher]

42. ah, I do miss those crazy days of rotating, disposable cells and g-phones

I dont worry about too much of this gub'ment booga booga. They are drowning in too much info. Every GM car now has an Onstar, every cell has gps trackability (and how many people carry two or more phones), and every byte of web activity is tracked.....

There is too much info to normally be sifted through. Remember how they have missed criminals whose activity should have raised red flags? I think we are pretty safe in oblivion.

[lib2DaBone]

45. Agent Mike monitors this board.. don't kid yourself....

Threaten the IRS or mention something over-the-top... even in jest... and see how fast Secret Service shows up at your door.

I don't want to find out.. that's for sure.

Bill Maher, in his latest HBO "But I'm Not Wrong", does a funny bit about telephone conversations back in the 80's... "remember when you were talking and you would say.. ya, send over two more 'shirts'.. and remember.. no seeds this time".

[sui generis]

52. nah

I'm over the top all the time and the Secret Service has yet to put in an appearance. whatever you do, do NOT fly any falafels into any icescrapers.

:P

On the other hand if one DOES threaten violence against an agency or group or individual that clearly goes beyond hot air and hyperbole, one SHOULD be investigated. and medicated.

[Jennicut]

51. My Dad works at the local phone company, now AT&T. As a child I could listen in on people's phone

calls. My Dad showed me how when I went to work with him on occasion, when he had late night problems at the analog switch office. It was done to "test" the line. This was circa 1985, when I was 10. But don't kid yourselves, nothing is private unless you are somewhere with no recording devices or bugs. Phones and the internet are not really private.