Can a poor kid medal in the Winter Games?

[Stinky The Clown]

We were discussing this in the abstract. Poor kids can run wherever they want. They can play basketball and jump. They can wrestle in high school and play Little League baseball. Not very many summer sports have a high bar to admission.

Skating is hugely expensive. So is skiing. There's not much in the way of winter sports that a poor kid can do. Yes, there are high bar summer sports, too, but not as many, as a percentage of the genre, than in winter sports.

I'm not saying they're bad people, but there are sure a lot of well off kids in the Winter Games.

[Taitertots]

1. Do the poor children live in Florida or Sweden?

Obviously a lot cheaper to ski if you have snow.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Lift tickets are not free anywhere

I'm not poor and there is no way I could ever afford to pay for my kids to ski all day, every day, while they're young and still hopeful of making an Olympic team.

A little kid playing club soccer can easily afford to do it as compared to a kid the same age wanting to ski well.

[cali]

13. not true. My son skied free through 8th grade through a program

out of his school. Burke Mountain- great little place and they provide equipment if the kids needed it and free lift tickets. Once a week from Jan through March. And there are lots of schools up here that have similar programs.

[handmade34]

14. your kids and my kids

but we are some of the few. I recognize that there are small corners of places different than others and it isn't always pretty.

(my kids still ski free - one works at Stowe and one is working out at Park City, UT - one is at UVM and gets his sister to get him in at Stowe...)

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Once a week skiing will never get a kid to the Olympic level.

Will it?

The discussion was about winning a medal, not participating in the sport.

Whether a kid wants to medal in soccer or skiing or javelin, s/he has to work at it every day of every week of every month .... or damned near that.

[cali]

81. you claimed lift tickets aren't free anywhere, dearie

that's what I responded to. In post 8 I answered your question. look, it's clear you know next to nothing about these sports and the kids who engage in them at the olympic level. I notice you ignored that information. Doesn't fit with your bias, huh?

[Taitertots]

20. Do you play soccer in the winter?

I'm sure some garage sale cross country skis can't be too expensive. Get a .22 cal rifle for $100 and you are in a biathlon.

Live near a frozen lake and you can speed skate, or figure skate.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. The question was about medalling, not participating in a sport.

[polly7]

28. Check out how many great NHL'ers are from tiny communities

Probably because the ice-time is so much cheaper and they skate day and night.

Sponsors, I imagine, are the biggest factor in being able to train for the Olympics.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. No argument

But to even get discovered at a very young age and get sponsorship requires ...... ice time or slope time or sled time or sliding course time or coaching or equipment that gets outgrown in months or .............

I'm not saying it can't happen. It can and it does. But it is much harder, it seems to me, for poor kids to medal in the winter than the summer.

[polly7]

33. Believe it or not ......... there are 'scouts' that come out to our

little league games, both boys and girls now. They must keep track of them if they really stand out .... I know a few who have been offered free coaching, housing, education the second they were old enough. Our equipment was passed on just like outgrown clothes. Skiing, I'm less familiar with. I imagine it would be harder to raise enough money to get the practice you'd need.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. My niece played club/travel team soccer from the time she was 8 ......

.... and by the time she was 12, Olympic scouts were watching her. My brother and sister-in-law spent many weekends traveling all over California (and elsewhere) on weekends for their matches.

My niece was a very high level player, but when she went to college turned down a scholarship in favor of serious study without the burden of playing. My brother gulped so loud I could hear him back east! But she'd had it.

It is very much as you described.

[polly7]

44. Yes, if the child has the talent and determination, here they'll

probably get noticed and offered sponsorship by someone. I think it's like anything, if you want it bad enough there is a way.

[Taitertots]

47. You seem to ignore that many people live in climates which favor winter games

Poor children from Florida have as much chance in the winter olympics as poor children from northern Canada have in the summer olympics.

[Stinky The Clown]

51. I'm ignoring nothing

I

asked

a

question

.

A

discussion

ensued

.

That

isn't

unusual

.

:eyes:

[Taitertots]

58. Here is what you posted

"But it is much harder, it seems to me, for poor kids to medal in the winter than the summer"
And I responded that you are ignoring all the people who live in regions that favor winter games. There are a lot of places where it is easier for a poor child to medal in the olympics.

[Stinky The Clown]

62. Here's a hint:

"I disagree with your premise because ...... "

See how that works? No attitude? No shutting down discussion in favor of one upsmanship. You might even have your essential point remembered by the person with whom you're discussing things. Instead, in this exchange, I think very little of your point and will recall with distaste the exchange.

Your replies in this thread have all been dripping with attitude and pugnaciousness.

[Taitertots]

68. Whatever, be a fickle little daisy all the way to ignore n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

74. Hahaha

How childish



See ...... an exchange that starts poorly ends poorly.

[Captain Hilts]

72. But there are coaches and school programs for ice hockey in the north. nt

[polly7]

80. Actually, parents are most often the coaches here, until the kids

get older. And no, there are no school programs for ice hockey that I know of. Twice a week they'll either curl, or skate, or play volleyball or whatever their gym or home room teacher wants to do. This is in my area, I don't know about the cities. I coached hockey for about 6 years, it's usually all volunteer. Where in the north are you talking about school programs with hockey?

[Captain Hilts]

93. I was referring to Northern US - such as Michigan. But I've seen the same in Toronto. nt

[polly7]

105. Ice hockey programs through Toronto's school system???

Could you provide a link for that please? We do have hockey camps / programs kids can attend privately, but not in school time. Being that ice time would be a whole lot more expensive in Toronto and in much more demand, I can't imagine it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Anyone who wants to succeed in soccer will be playing year round

Yeah, it's traditionally a winter sport, with a short summer break, but if you want to be the best you wouldn't stop.

[Taitertots]

41. Must take a lot of money to find indoor soccer in the winter n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. No, why would it?

It's just a sports hall. Most countries manage to stretch to local sports halls that you can play various sports in, do exercise classes and so on, and soccer is a typical one in winter. They're not very expensive to hire for an hour or two.

Professionally, some countries do have a break of a month or so in the middle of winter, if they are places that have regular snow lying in January. But the seasons last from late summer to the end of spring, basically, in Europe; they did historically in South America, but they changed to the months Europe uses a few years ago, because that fits in with the European clubs that can pay the most.

[Taitertots]

64. How many hours of practice to become world class?

I'd wager it gets fairly expensive if you want to practice regularly.

[muriel_volestrangler]

88. Lots of practice, but you don't need an indoor pitch for practice

just if you want a formal game out of the elements (and maybe in the evening with decent lighting). Significant snow on the ground is the only real problem; if kids really want to play where they do normally, they might clear the snow off and then use it. But the countries that do get significant snow are, on the whole, those that are developed enough that most towns in them have some kind of public sports facilities.

But football has always been a game open to everyone. It's not connected to universities, unlike many American sports, and while big clubs in the countries with rich leagues these days look at younger and younger children to start training them, it's to get hold of the raw talent, and to get them to be more likely to sign up with the club they trust when they can turn professional. In fact, the prospect of earning a good wage at 16 may even encourage more kids from poor backgrounds to look to football as a possible profession, rather than staying in school, and then going to a university and running up a big student debt.

[cali]

12. Yep. Where I live, most of the public schools take the kids skiing

every week in winter. And it's free. My son did that program through elementary school.

[dsc]

2. I think Hockey and maybe some of the skiing (like cross country)

are the only ones. I think the big difference is the lack of team sports where expense can be split much easier.

[Arctic Dave]

6. Hockey, not even close. Hockey is obscenely expensive.

Gear and "ice time" are crazy.

[fishwax]

16. But there are youth leagues in some communities that make it accessible

The small town I grew up in has youth hockey that isn't any more expensive to join than youth football is ...

[Arctic Dave]

25. Both are expensive. Hockey is more expensive up here because of ice time.

[dsc]

18. but don't school in places like upstate New York, New England,

and the upper Midwest have hockey teams just like having say football teams which otherwise are insanely expensive.

[Arctic Dave]

24. They do but the cost of equipment is even more expensive then football.

If the school doesn't have a hockey rink then they have to rent time from a rink and that gets expensive also.

[Captain Hilts]

73. Yes. nt

[Arctic Dave]

3. Curling?

All you need is rock and broom to start of with.

[Tesha]

15. Have you priced curling stones?

A decent set of sixteen stones will cost you $5,000. A good set
will cost you $10,000. And then there's the refrigerated track and
all the do-dads you need to maintain it.

http://www.canadacurlingstone.on.ca/

Tesha

[Arctic Dave]

21. I was referring to going to a curling club. Much like a bowling alley.

[TransitJohn]

23. Ice time is insanely expensive

here at our municipal rink.

[Arctic Dave]

27. We have a curling club here so its not too bad for price.

[polly7]

26. Yes, but each community provides these to be used by all.

We rent out our curling and skating rinks to anyone, it's just like providing a ball diamond, bleachers and dugouts for playing ball, or a gym for basketball.

[Blue_In_AK]

4. Nordic skiing is not all that expensive.

Nor is hockey and curling, as Arctic Dave points out.

[EFerrari]

87. I didn't do any kind of skiing until I was in my 20s

There's no way my mom could have afforded the equipment rental on top of the trip to the snow. My brother, who is 8 years younger than I am, did get to ski when he was about 12 and he was a maniac. LOL

[cali]

90. and my guess is you didn't grow up in a ski town

there are all kinds of opportunities for kids to ski and board where I live- from Jake Burton's Chill program to school programs. They cost the kid and his/her family exactly nothing. Lots of people on this thread who don't have a clue about programs like this because they don't live in an area where skiing is an everyday thing. We all used to joke that there's more duct tape on Burke Mountain then any other kind of fabric.

[panader0]

7. When my son played little league, and my daughters played ponytail,

it wasn't that cheap. Cleats and gloves and batting gloves and the ball bags etc. Plus, there would be 2 practices a week and 2 games and I live 12 miles away and then there were snacks for the team twice a season and several nights of eating out because of the late hour.
I agree with your premise about sports. Certain ones cost a lot. Little League and Ponytail ain't cheap either.

[cali]

8. Yes.

OK, maybe not poor, but definitely not wealthy or even close. Hannah Teter's dad is on the road crew in the town she grew up in. The Teter kids grew up in very modest circumstances. All but one of the five went on to be on the national boarding team. Kelly Clark also grew up in modest circumstances. So did Ross Powers. Hannah Kearney's dad is a carpenter. Bode Miller grew up in a cabin without running water and electricity.

I know two kids who have gone to Burke Mountain Academy on scholarships. It's a top racing high school. Both of them were from families that were lower middle class.

[freeplessinseattle]

48. don't forget Shaun White!

his family used to stay in a one bed room in a Motel 6 when taking him snowboarding-they'd put the mattress on the floor and his dad would get the boxspring. They eventually got a bigger van so they could just stay at campgrounds.

His dad worked (or still works) for the city, digging ditches, and his mom was a waitress. He gave his first big win $ ($65,000) at age 15 to the family, he's a good kid who sounds like he appreciates his parents' sacrifices.

[paulsby]

9. cross country skiing is not expensive

lots of places for a poor kid to practice, assuming he lives in a nice cold state, and apart from one set of skis, and some warm clothes, that's all you need.

it is true that many winter sports do require a lot of equipment/money, though. i agree

[Retrograde]

85. depends where you live

my nephews, in a rural part of upstate New York, could ski in their back yard. When I was little we used to skate on frozen fields. It's still a far cry from Olympic-quality facilities, though.

Talented youngsters headed for international competition don't train on neighborhood facilities, no matter what the sport. Once they get good enough to attract sponsors they tend to move to more expensive, year-round facilities.

What I want to know is why we don't see more cross-training:e.g., sprinters training for short track skating and vice versa.

[polly7]

10. Skating where I grew up cost 20.00 per family for the winter.

Now it's 75.00 I believe, and there are skate exchanges, donations all season long. Usually a huge bin by the door of skates dropped off to be picked through. We were actually quite poor compared to many, and I skated and played hockey all my life. Used equipment, car-pooling, raising money to host tournaments with bakesales and stuff ....... it didn't cost much at all. Same with curling, we went twice a week from school, played with our 4-H clubs or whatever, all you needed was a broom and could borrow one off any rack. Our schools took us for ski days and it wasn't overly expensive then, I believe we got deals on lift tickets the more of us there were.

Now if you want completely FREE snow sports - try skiing behind a horse - way fun, or just slap on your skates and head out to any dugout. Yes, you can certainly be poor and play winter sports.


Of course the more serious you are about it, just like any other sport - the better equipment you'll want.

[Captain Hilts]

71. To get the time and space to practice these moves is VERY expensive. I know

someone who did this and also know some figure skating judges.

[polly7]

79. Depends where you are, I guess.

The kids in figure and power skating here pay actually very little and included in their yearly skating fee can practice 24 hours a day if they like. The Rec Board hires the coaches, a child wanting extra coaching will often go on their own to hire someone they want more.

[Captain Hilts]

92. In Toronto it can be pricey. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Some winter sports are certainly expensive

Some could be fairly cheap, depending on the country you come from. You say skating is 'hugely expensive' - what sort? Speed skating needs a track, and then it's an athletic sport like many others (I can't imagine there's regular outlay on skates). Cross-country skiiing needs the skis, but after that it's another athletic sport, if you live in a place that gets plenty of snow.

Expense on coaching is probably far more important for baseball, in fact. It's skill that has to be taught from experience; and to get the best coaches in it, you have to pay a lot more than in something like cross-country skiiing. Baseball in the US may be equivalent to alpine skiing in Austria - there's so much community support that in each country it probably is equally open to everyone.

[TransitJohn]

17. I grew up on public assistance

with a single mother in a trailer house in the Rocky Mountains. To this day I don't ski, because it was always way too expensive. Gear and lift tickts means I don't go. I've cross countried a little bit through the years, but no alpine. Rock climbing is sort of the same, the gear is off the hook expensive.

[GoCubsGo]

29. Ask Shani Davis

I understand he wasn't exactly "rich" growing up.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. Sure

Who is he?

And why the attitude?

[MineralMan]

35. Go here:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Shani+Davis

[Stinky The Clown]

37. cute

When someone makes a comment, that person has the obligation to explain it or have the comment ignored.

Why are you being a smart-ass in a thread that stared with an honest question stated evenly?

[MineralMan]

45. Because the answer was a black guy from a poor neighborhood

who was a double medal winner. That's why. You could have discovered that for your self, even without my somewhat sarcastic help.

Actually, it's been on the news from the Olympics. The guy's a minor hero right now. You made an assumption. It was incorrect. While it's true that few poor black kids go in for winter sports, the reason may well not be that they're poor.

One kid did, and now has stood on the Olympic podium twice.

[Stinky The Clown]

56. When did this become about race?

And no, I have NO obligation to look up a sarcastically offered reply.

See, here's the thing ...... if this were about RACE, I would have known who this person was. The discussion was started and progressed, about bucks, not race.

But some people like to stir shit up.

[Stinky The Clown]

84. Did you miss my question?

When did this become about race?

[GoCubsGo]

38. Why the attitude?

I would ask you the same thing. I didn't have an "attitude." I just pointed out a double medal winner who grew up on the south side of Chicago.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Sure you did.

Yup. You did.

[GoCubsGo]

49. Glad you agree. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

57. I'm glad that you're glad

I'm aware that you're still copping an attitude, though.

[southernyankeebelle]

34. I don't think Johnny Weir came from a wealthy family. I do think they seem to be

treated differently. I can't remember the girl's name that her husband hit Nancy Kerrigan leg. She definately didn't come from wealth. I think that effected her. But that was no reason for her husband to hit Nancy. I couldn't stand her either.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. That was Tonya Harding ..... and she was decidedly poor

I'm not saying it is impossible for a poor person to medal, but I do believe it is far more difficult in winter sport than summer sport.

[begin_within]

83. At one point George Steinbrenner was sponsoring her,

and I believe that Philip Knight, the CEO of Nike, also contributed to her.

[alphafemale]

76. Nancy Kerrigan was intolerable but nobody deserves to be busted in the knee like that

Tanya Harding really blew it. But she did come from a working class background.

Of course she at that time and in the time since showed herself to be "low-class" as well.

[951-Riverside]

40. Oh I get it ...Winter Olympics = Mostly White athletes (and as we all know) White = Rich

:sarcasm: :eyes:

...I am so close to leaving this place.

[Stinky The Clown]

42. What's your problem?

Don't be sarcastic. Say what's on your mind. I'm thick as a post and don't understand what you're upset about. What seems to have happened is that you imputed some agenda or hidden meaning to the OP, formed an opinion of my motives, and then tried to put me down for asking the question.

That's close to a hat trick, Skippy.

[951-Riverside]

53. I've already said whats on my mind.

Your post implies that the poor can't medal in the winter Olympics and you likely think that because they're mostly white and thus... rich.

"Can a poor kid medal in the Winter Games?"

Let's not kid ourselves.

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Actually, you *are* wrong. But please don't let that stop your flaring nostrils.

How can you possibly have any idea what's on my mind in regards to race? No one here raised the issue until YOU did. There was lots of discussion about the cost of sports - or not - from place to place and sport to sport. But NO ONE raised race until YOU did.

That's really quite ugly.

By the way, these winter games are not racially pure, if you've been watching. Lots of non-whites. Lots of non-white countries, for that matter. Or is this about only ONE race, in your view?

Yup .... that was a pretty ugly accusation you made. Shame on you. Shame, shame, shame on you.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrs_p]

46. i think short track

could be attractive as an inner-city activity. i'm hoping for outreach to poorer communities.

[polly7]

54. Actually, now that I think about it ...... some of the hockey players

from my community that were scouted out for the bigger leagues never paid their yearly skating fees, they weren't wealthy at all .... the Rec board just sucked it up and not a word was said. You have to understand, there is nothing else to do! when it's 30-C and you have to dig your car out every morning. Hockey, skating, curling ..... they keep us sane:)

[onenote]

59. i'm surprised you can make the statement that "there sure a lot of well off kids"

in the winter games and yet not have a clue who Shani Davis is. If you know enough about the background of the athletes in the winter games to be able say a "lot" of them are "well off" how come you don't know anything about one of the best known US winter olympians?

Or are you just assuming that there are a 'lot of well off kids" in the winter games?

And it might help this discussion if you clarified what you considered "well off". IMO there is a fairly significant gap between "poor" and "well off" but you seem to have divided the world into those categories.

[Stinky The Clown]

65. Lots of things surprise people

I didn't know who he was.

The discussion was simple: It costs more, on average, to participate in winter sprts than summer sports. I didn't make any absolute statements, and I also started out by saying it was an abstract discussion.

[onenote]

67. actually, you did make an absolute statement:

"there sure are a lot of well off kids in the Winter Olympics"

not "it seems like" or "I think" or "I wonder if" Just "there are". BUt its pretty obvious you don't really know how "well off" (if at all) any particular athlete in the Winter Olympics is, let alone that a "lot" of them meet that standard.

[Stinky The Clown]

75. "Give this round to onenote on points"

Whatever ...... arguing the arcane instead of the issue.

But yup ...... you get this one on points.

See ya around campus.

[bullwinkle428]

60. Nearly all of the U.S. bobsled guys are from the military's

elite athlete program, so that seems like a clear example of a "non-silver spoon" route!

[Stinky The Clown]

63. Yup. It is

The OP did not posit any absolutes. Just that winter sports, on the whole, require more financial resources than do summer sports. Exceptions abound.

[fishwax]

61. Well, there are a lot of well off kids in the Summer Games, too, but generally speaking

you're right that summer games are a bit more accessible to kids from poor families. There are many places where skating isn't expensive at all, and there are also places with community or high school hockey and even skiing teams.

The geographic limitations to winter sports compound the situation--it may be true that a kid from a relatively poor family from Minnesota or Vermont can manage to ski or play hockey, but a poor kid from Kansas or West Virginia probably can't. But poor kids from Minnesota and Vermont also have access to summer sports like track, baseball, and basketball.

Truthfully, though, most summer sports aren't easily accessible to poor kids either, particularly when you factor in things like coaches and practice time. Look at swimming, for example--not an expensive pursuit, generally speaking, but I think it's relatively rare for a competitor on the national team to come from a working class background.

I'm sure there are more athletes from working class backgrounds in the summer games than in the winter games, but then again there are a lot more sports and more athletes overall in the summer games.

[Stinky The Clown]

66. The question we tossed around (before this post was made and alluded to in the OP) .....

.... was in getting a kid to the point where a serious coach or scout might "discover" them. That part of the ride is on one's own dime. Once discovered, a fair bit of the financial burden is off.

We weer talking about how hard it is for a poor kid to get to a point where they can be "discovered".

[fishwax]

77. I see your point, and I think that still holds with what I said

Poor kids will have a better chance at success in a sport where there are well-developed and extensive networks for recognizing and developing talent. That's the case with popular sports like baseball, basketball, track, and (in some regions) hockey. But access isn't as readily available to the networks through which one might be discovered in sports like, say, swimming or diving. A kid from a poor family might have a bike and might be able to ride it very, very fast, but unless he access to clubs (which will be more likely in more affluent communities) or competitions (which require some investment of time, energy, and money from the family) he's not likely to be discovered.

Generally speaking, as I said, I agree with the idea that working-class kids are more likely to break into the summer Olympics ... I just don't think the discrepancy is quite as big as it might initially appear, both because there are ways that poorer kids (in the right geographic location) can have access to winter sports and because the bar for many summer sports is bigger than it might seem.

[Stinky The Clown]

82. Thanks for a civil discussion. You gave me things to think about.

Seriously!

:hi:

[KingFlorez]

69. Yes, they can, with a lot of effort

Where there's a will, there is a way. I've heard stories of winter athletes that come from modest beginnings that have made it.

[Captain Hilts]

70. No, not much. Even ice hockey has more entry costs than most sports. nt

[polly7]

108. No, not in smaller communities it sure doesn't, it's very little and some

players end up never paying, because they can't. Our minor hockey program itself raises money through fundraising events, not the individual player. Parents coach, refs and linesmen are all volunteer and car-pooling makes sure any child without money can play out of town. I think you have the wrong impression of hockey up here. We just redid our whole skating rink, courtesy of a grant given out by retired NHL'ers. Artificial ice, new boards ...... it looks great.

[Ishoutandscream2]

78. Good post, Stinky

Not a big fan of the winter games myself because of some of the things you said. Gotta admit, I really got into the hockey myself.

[alarimer]

86. Not really.

All of these sports are hugely expensive to participate in, and most of them are sports that revolve largely around rural areas.

There are exceptions. Shani Davis I believe started (or participates in, I am not sure) a speed skating program for youth in Washington, DC.

Mostly it is the equipment and fees (and the time parents have to transport their kids to games, etc).

[cali]

89. hannah kearney's dad is a carpenter. hannah teter's is on the town road crew

kelly clark came from modest circumstances as did Ross Powers. Bode Miller grew up in a cabin with no running water and no electricity. Now these olympic medalists don't qualify as poor, but they sure as hell don't come from a privileged background.

I don't think you understand what opportunities there are for kids who grow up in places where skiing and boarding are all around them. Burton (the board manufacturer) runs a program for poor kids that not only provides lift tickets but equipment and clothing. It's called the Chill Program.
And it's not only here in Vermont, but all over the country.

http://www.redprotection.com/Home/chill,default,pg.html

[Obamanaut]

91. Yes

[Cali_Democrat]

94. You make an excellent point

A very thought provoking post.

K&R

[distantearlywarning]

95. My family was really poor growing up.

But we had second-hand cross-country skis and used them regularly, on the country road near our house and in the woods. I learned to ski almost as soon as I could walk. If I had wanted to, I could have gone skiing literally every day at least 4-5 months of the year and it wouldn't have cost a dime. I grew up in the mountains of Colorado.

Now, if I were serious about the sport, eventually we would have had to find some way to pay for coaches and better skis and the like. But that's true of any sport when the competitor wants to take it to higher levels.

But nevertheless I am a living, breathing example of someone who was very poor as a child and was still able to engage in a winter sport that is part of the winter olympics.

I also did figure-skating as an older child. We went down to the Goodwill and bought a second-hand pair of figure skates for ten or twenty bucks, and I took Saturday lessons at the local small-town rink. I don't think they were much more than the price of admission. I was no olympic contender, but I did learn to ice skate and I had fun.

[Wardoc]

96. True, but I think we shouldn't let economics divide us. Let us just enjoy it for what it is. (nt)

[Xithras]

97. Skiing really isn't that expensive if you live near a ski area.

I think my first set of ski equipment (skis, poles, boots) cost my parents about $50 at a secondhand ski swap. Those are a great way to pick up good condition single season rentals or demo skis cheap, and kid sizes tend to go for very low prices. Because of the nature of the sport, and the rate at which kids grow, kids skis can often be used by three or four different kids before they really start to wear. The gear only gets expensive when you want the newest high tech stuff, and most kids don't get into that until after they start picking up sponsorships. People routinely win local and regional ski competitions using lower quality or second hand equipment. Heck, there have been a few situations where people have won local competitions using rental equipment. At the lower levels, winning has more to do with the skill of the skier than with the equipment they're using.

Past that, most of the "non-elite" mountains have programs that provide discounted youth tickets, especially if they're being bought for the season. The resort closest to me offers season passes to youth for about $200 a season. That may sound like a lot of money, but many parents spend that kind of cash on league soccer play, youth baseball, and other "traditional" sports. It's also small enough that a really enterprising, dedicated kid could raise it over the summer raking leaves or mowing lawns.

Finally, when a kid actually does show potential, one of the first things they start doing is collecting sponsors, and the FIRST place they generally hit is the local ski resort. If the kid shows any real potential at all, it's very common for a resort to "sponsor" them for a season by giving them a free lift pass. It doesn't cost the resort anything, and it's great for marketing if the kid later goes on to become a famous skier. Even for the masses that don't, it gets their name out there on the competitors bibs as they travel for various events. It's dirt cheap advertising for the resort.

So the only REALLY large expense is transportation. This is why the vast majority of professional winter athletes were raised near venues for the sport they compete in. Rich or poor, there aren't many skiers from Texas. Rich or poor, most of the kids from Tahoe have skied at least once. The difference is the proximity to the resorts, and the availability of various transportation options to the skiers (in Tahoe, there are actually shuttles running out to the resorts...which can also be approached for sponsorships).

It can be done, and is HAS been done. They have a more difficult time of it, but that's the case when discussing rich vs. poor in almost any context.

[cali]

98. yep.

I never paid more than $50 for equipment for my kid when he was in elementary school and he had some damned good equipment. He skied free once a week through his school program and I bought us both bash badge's at smuggler's notch which made skiing quite affordable. He was on the racing team in high school and Jay Peak sponsored them- which meant free skiing there.

[DevonRex]

100. Well damn. While I was typing my reply you posted this. :)

All I can say is EXACTLY.

[Xithras]

104. Addendum: Also, remember that the U.S. is a bit of an anomaly.

Most Olympic teams from around the world are at least partially sponsored by their governments, which seriously reduces the costs associated with training and competing at the higher levels. The U.S. is one of only three nations that provide ZERO government funding for Olympic athletes, expecting them to instead rely entirely on sponsorships, fundraising, or private wealth. It's natural, then, to expect that the U.S. team is going to skew from a slightly wealthier demographic than, say, the Chinese team, which has government funded coaches scouring the countryside looking for potential new talent.

When you're watching on TV, remember that our networks tend to focus on the American's, but that there are 82 other nations competing and that MANY of those Olympians come from middle class and even lower class backgrounds.

[DevonRex]

99. Sure, as long as they live near a ski resort. My kids saved for season passes.

They skied every weekend from October through May. That was their main form of entertainment so they didn't spend money on other things. They took peanut butter & jelly sandwiches and thermoses of cocoa and coffee with them so they didn't have to pay for food. They carpooled with their friends up to the mountains, shared gas expenses. If you load a Blazer up with 5 kids it turns out to be a pretty cheap trip.

And they're damned good skiers, both of them. I'm talking skiing off cliffs good. So good that I told them I no longer wanted to hear EXACTLY what they were doing up there - just that it was exhiliarating and fun. Both played sports in college instead of pursuing skiing. But with all the time logged on the trails, if they had wanted to take it to the next level they could have.

Now, we aren't impoverished. But we never just "gave" our kids a lot of stuff. They earned money for their own season passes and equipment. And we replaced worn out equipment for them at birthdays and Christmas, too. If you live in ski country it's easy to get good deals. Really easy.

[Obamanaut]

101. Can a poor kid become president? nt

[fascisthunter]

102. I Think it Has to do with Wealth, Location and Social Crowds

in my local, which was poor, but not dirt poor, kids rarely went skiing, unless their parents had the money. On the other hand, a friend of mine who also grew up poor started skiing when he was a kid, because his father worked on a mountain that provided skiing.

Not many friends of mine with parents in the same tax bracket had the money to send their kids skiing, skating, nor any other winter sport, so I can see why you would ask the question. I think your implication that wealth is predominant in Olympic Sports is more true than untrue. That's my opinion.

[joeybee12]

103. Foolish...why do you think the skiers and skaters do so well now????

Not because they're rich, but because there's corporate sponsorsghips that pay their bills...before this, the US sucked in the winter games because these were poor kids trying to compete...for the most part, they aren't rich, but now they have the means to train and travel.

[tinrobot]

106. Speed skating is cheap

You need a nice pair of skates, but the rest is pretty straightforward - skate and lift weights until your legs are the size of tree stumps.

[dysfunctional press]

107. the main expense with snowboarding is the weed.

:hippie: