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Why are people calling this Stack guy a Teabagger?

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:23 PM
Original message
Why are people calling this Stack guy a Teabagger?
His suicide note had just as many left-wing anti-corporate statements as it does anti-tax statements.

http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4751

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

A Teabagger wouldn't say anything like this.
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Uh, teabaggers weren't for the bailouts. n/t
n/t
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Teabaggers also don't positively quote Marx
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Maybe it's sarcasm?
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:41 PM by W_HAMILTON
Like when he talks about politicans talking about the "terrible health care problem." I see the right talking about Marx more than I do actual liberals.

I don't know. I'd have to read the full excerpt of the Marx quote to see the context. Do you have a link?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Um... someone didn't read his remarks.
Regarding health care, he said, "...they see no crisis as long as the dead people don't get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."

Hard to pretend that's sarcasm.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I guess.
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. Um...yes I did.
And in that quote, the "they" he is referring to is our politicians.

He puts the term "terrible health care problem" in quotes, most likely mocking it, and he talks disparagingly about the spending "endless time...year after year" debating the "terrible health care problem."
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. +1
That is how I read it.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Not very well, apparently.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 11:29 PM by Political Heretic
"They" he is referring to politicians. Okay.

Then that means his quote would read:

"they see no crisis as long as the dead people don't get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in"

Further direct quote:

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.


You want to try to rationalize how that's all just sarcasm and mocking?

After putting "terrible health are problem" in quotes (after trashing politicians for ignoring the "joke we call the American medical system" - clearly showing he thought we had a health care problem - he goes on to say IT'S CLEAR THEY SEE NO CRISIS...

Sounds about right to me.

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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
84. One of the teabaggers biggest complaints about the current healthcare plan...
...is that it is a government-mandate to purchase insurance from a private entity.

I see many teabaggers claiming this guy as their own, but I don't see any liberals doing so.
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Darly314 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
57. Um...yes I did
He was a bagger. An extremist right wing killer bent on the destruction of our nation. His ACTIONS & writing make that clear:
*********************************************************************************
Sadly, starting at early ages we in this
country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our
dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We
are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this
place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble
principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these
was "no taxation without representation."
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. You mean like this writing?

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.


or this:


The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.


Or this:


I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can we just call him a greedy, selfish asshole
...and leave it at that?

I don't think the insane writings of a psychopath qualify as political theory.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. + 1
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Look at the track record.
Anti-tax.
Anti-bailout.
Ron Paul donor.
It screams "teabagger."
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. It suits some people's agenda to make things black and white.
They can avoid uncomfortable thinking that way.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. And because the PTB prefer to keep us obsessed with "politics as team sports".
It keeps people from realizing that both parties are owned by the Corporations.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. You nailed it. n-t
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:44 PM by Toucano
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. He burned his house down and flew a plane into a building

Sounds like a tea bagger to me.





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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:30 PM
Original message
He defined himself as an anti-capitalist and in support of communism
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:30 PM by Political Heretic
:shrug:

Perhaps this person's mental instability can't be neatly classified into black/white categories?
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well, let's state the obvious

He needed mental help.


Ya' think?



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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Where did he "support" communism?
Help me out, 'cause I ain't seein' it.
-----------------------------------------------



If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures. We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy.

Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse. While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in. And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed reevaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer. On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-theears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. (a) IN GENERAL – Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection: (d) EXCEPTION. – This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE. – The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

! “another person” is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

! “taxpayer” is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

! “individual”, “employee”, or “worker” is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients. After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect. Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle.

If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back. Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a {EXPLETIVE DELETED} about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around. I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy {EXPLETIVE DELETED} up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution. As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. No, just sounds like somebody whose completely insane to me
Politics had nothing to do with this one. He was all over the map. He was completely bonkers, period.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
67. How many tea baggers you know who did that?
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ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
80. I read that they were defusing a bomb...
...that he left in his car at the airport, as well.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Because his rage makes no sense
He is just over the edge about EVERYTHING --- like most teabaggers.

They rant about things both left and right - against wall street, against health reform etc. Just 'against" reality and what it will take for us to dig out of W's mess.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sometimes knees jerk on the Left as much as on the Right.
And it is human nature, unfortunately, to identify a wrongdoer with a group or ideology we don't like, because it reinforces our opinions. But I don't see anything in this guy's screed that identifies him specifically as a right-winger -- he's all over the place. I don't think a particular political ideology motivated his actions.
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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think this is like the Unabomber, Ft Hood Shooter, UAH Killer,
or any other nutjob gone violent. It's not so much about politics as it is about nuts!
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. actually, I've heard this kind of thing from teabaggers
the only reason a lot of them consider themselves conservatives is political confusion.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. But, but, I thought the other side is all demons are devils!!! *SARCASM*
:sarcasm:
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. because they only heard excerpts?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. seems many of them want to call him their own
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:33 PM by Mari333
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The tea baggers may want to claim him
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:39 PM by AsahinaKimi
But I don't think if he were alive today, he would call himself that. People are correct that he was "all over the board".. but one thing I am sure of.. People like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh will probably try to make him out as a Liberal or even a Democrat.. after all the Republican party loves tools.. for their agenda.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. How about the guy
was a fucking FREAK with no party affiliation?
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why are you taking up for the teabaggers?
You sound kinda strange to me. :wtf:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Huh? I'm not.
What's your problem?
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You taking up for the teabaggers
It's rather sickening. :puke:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. This guy wasn't a teabagger.
Read the damn suicide note!
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Post it
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. It's been all over the news and multiple other places
Your allegations that the OP is 'taking up for the teabaggers' is groundless. The guy complained about the IRS, which is the sort of thing many teabaggers might sympathize with. He also complains about a variety of other things which the teabaggers wouldn't, as evidenced in the OP.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. He also blame the 1986 Tax Reform Act....
on Patrick Moynihan. Forgetting that Ronnie Raygun was Pres., and Repubs held the Senate in '86.

He was an anti-tax fruit. Pretty damn close to teabaggin'.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. It's in the link in my OP
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Ok...Thanks
He sounds like a teabagger to me,though. Their main rants are always about taxes. TEA (Taxed Enough Already) is their motto.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. So it's okay to lie about someone's politics to score some points?
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Parsing the crazy for politics is a waste of time.
Sometimes,
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Lost Jaguar Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
87. That classic Gary Larson cartoon...
...had just occurred to me as I scrolled down to your posting. Says it all. I pray for his next incarnation and anyone suffering from his actions.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. The left..
... is busy trying to pin this on the wingnuts, the right is busy trying to pin this on the "Marxist left".

Me, I read a note that I frankly understood completely and while I condemn his actions vehemently, I totally understand his frustration.

The financial elites, aided by the government, are stripping the middle class of everything it has earned. Period, end of story and if you don't see it you are not too bright.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Or are too blinded by seeing politics as Blue Team vs. Red Team.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. +1 n/t
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. His note wasn't about left vs. right. It was about Top vs. Bottom.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 11:02 PM by Political Heretic
It's tragic that the guy suffered a mental/emotional break that would lead to such tragedy and pointless, unproductive violence.

But the bulk of his grievances are either very accurate or at least very understandable frustrations.

It doesn't somehow stop being Top vs. Bottom just because the guy was a software engineer. That doesn't make one "top." "Top" is the 10% that own the country and set the parameters of allowed/tolerated political disagreement ensuring that politics remains a for-show team sport of people arguing over the color of the drapes in s burning house...

...vs. EVERYONE else. Everyone.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. He was an anti-tax freak.
Screw him. Shoulda paid up instead of paying attention to stupid people.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Yea yea yea... which is why he spent so much time writing about how the tax system should be better
...not eliminated.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. you keep avoiding the fact in his bullshit manifesto he basically copped to
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 11:31 PM by dionysus
several tax evasion schemes over many years. three decades worth actually. he got busted repeatedly for it... he was a greedy selfish fool.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. I'm sure he was. Just not a teabagger.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
81. +1
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. He was an anti-tax dumbass...
who got caught up in one of those scams where he thought he could legally not pay taxes. Only a teabagger type would fall for such nonsense.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Illogical
If he were a teabagger type he would also have been railing against socialism, Obama, and what-all else. The fact that he apparently bought into fringe stupidity about taxation does not properly define his political beliefs, which seem to be outside the regular liberal-conservative dichotomy. Teabaggers are not in the habit of complaining about greedy health insurance execs, for example.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. He blames the 1986 Tax Reform Act....
on Patrick Moynihan in his screed! In '86 Reagan was Pres, and Repukes had the Senate. He was a teabagger type alright.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. Sorry, that does not make sense.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 11:19 PM by anigbrowl
There is more to being a teabagger than having a beef with the IRS, and there was more to his rambling screed than complaints about taxation. I think the guy's a crazy but you're trying to divine his political affiliation from only one aspect of his complaints and ignoring the parts that contradict your argument. A good many of his sentiments would have met approval on DU too, such as his condemnation of health insurance execs and drug companies - whereas my understanding of teabaggers is that such targets are part of the sacred free market and should be as unregulated as possible.

Frankly, he's not consistent enough that you can assign him a simple political classification. Much of his note seems mentally confused.

Your argument that he is disparaging health care reform (downthread) does not make sense either.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

Obviously, he thinks that drug and health insurance companies are murdering people (a similar sentiment is sometimes expressed on DU) and that politicians' words on health-care reform are unaccompanied by any serious intentions (again, a belief which has an audience here). Teabaggers, by contrast, express hostility to the idea of the government even trying to reform the healthcare industry and insist regular that American healthcare is 'the best in the world' and suchlike.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. The same reason Rush was calling the Harvard professor a liberal.
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Agreed. He wasn't a left-wing nut or a right-wing nut. He was completely Looney Tunes, period.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 10:52 PM by Kievan Rus
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. IBTL
My similar thread got locked, so IBTL!
lol
:fistbump:
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. The truth doesn't get censored just because it's inconvenient.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. luv ur sig line
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 11:09 PM by upi402
:rofl:
Truth can kick so much ass that it hurts it's own damn foot.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
92. Finally! Thanks, you've just made my fav DUer list. It's up to one now.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
47. Because some people can't help but want to politicize a disaster.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. He is disparaging health care reform....
that is why he put it in quotes.
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Darly314 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. He WAS a TEA BAGGER!
He spouted the same violent anti American rhetoric AS the baggers bleat; one recently called for the murder of a US senator---these enemies of the US must be defeated. This is the biggest internal threat to the US since the KKK/Neo Nazi groups of decades ago. The tea baggers should be registered as agents of a foreign entity.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. He just happened to stand in opposition to most everything teabaggers are for.
:shrug:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #62
68. Don't confuse him with facts.
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Darly314 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. He WAS a TEA BAGGER!
He spouted the same violent anti American rhetoric AS the baggers bleat; one recently called for the murder of a US senator---these enemies of the US must be defeated. This is the biggest internal threat to the US since the KKK/Neo Nazi groups of decades ago. The tea baggers should be registered as agents of a foreign entity.
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Darly314 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
59. Why are people calling this Stack guy a Teabagger?
Because he was an extremist right wing dirtbag advocating, and in his case, COMMITTING, violence against the US. One tea bagger recently called for the MURDER of a US senator. Our nation must be rid of these insane and violent TRAITORS.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. You obviously didn't read his suicide note.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
63. The acronym for "TEA" party is "Taxed Enough Already?"
They are all about hating taxes, and this guy's number one issue was not paying his taxes.

Plus he likes to kill people and that fits in with teabagger antics like bringing guns to Presidential rallies and calling for US Senators to be hung.

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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
65. It fits a DU template
and a lot of other templates.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
66. Well, let's make him DU's newest hero, then.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Too late.
He's already the new Che for the Armchair Revolutionary set here at DU.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. ....
:eyes:
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #69
82. Yup, defending his right to off himself and others to take a hit at the 'man'.
oh look a shiny......................


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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. You see no area between Teabagger and DU hero?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. I see some truly disturbing sympathy for a guy who spent
his entire adult life dodging taxes and blaming everyone else for everything bad that ever happened to him--and then murders people and burns his family out of their home and leaves his child fatherless. All because he threw in some left-wingy BS in along with the right-wingy BS. Say the right things, and you're not an asshole, just a poor misguided soul.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Exactly! A Professional Victim.
Every failure someone else's fault. Every action a slight to his pride. Everyone he encountered out to obstruct him.

Dude had money, comfort, talent, and racial privilege -- still not enough. Fuck him, filthy POS.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Yup. He had to have at least some sort of personality disorder--everyone
was just fucking out to get him, weren't they? He even thought the IRS worded the tax code to target him, specifically. I mean, really, is this the sort of guy DU wants to try to identify with?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #74
91. He sounds like a Narcissist, but that still doesn't mean he was a teabagger..
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Yet no one here has claimed he was a hero, have they?
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 01:46 AM by Forkboy
The Op certainly wasn't.

And I've seen little in the way of sympathy at all for him. I have seen people trying to understand him (something else you're upset at in another thread), but that's not sympathy, and it sure isn't implying he's a hero.

As for understanding why people do these things, I always want to know what went on in their minds leading up to this. Were there signs that were missed that could have prevented it getting this far? We'll never know if no one cares to make the attempt to understand, and each time something like this or an office shooting happens we act like it's the first time all over again. I'd rather we look at from as many angles as possible. Maybe there is nothing we're missing and nothing we can do, but if there is it's worth looking for, no?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. Actually, I see some people really trying to find common cause with this nut.
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 01:49 AM by TwilightGardener
Because he played just the right political/social notes in his screed. Sorry, the "we're just trying to UNDERSTAND him" is not ringing true for me. I've been here long enough to know what mitigates a bad deed.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. One of the best quotes about mental illness I've ever read came from the Unabomber.
That doesn't I mean I have common cause with him. If I posted that quote you and others would be the first accusing me of having sympathy for, or even making a hero of, the Unabomber. Do you not see how shallow that kind of thinking is?

Sorry, the "we're just trying to UNDERSTAND him" is not ringing true for me.

Do you think the battery of psychiatrists that work with serial killers see those killers as heroes? Do you see them as having sympathy for them? Or is it possible they ARE trying to understand what causes these kinds of things? Do you have no interest in what motivates the human brain to allow someone to do things like this? I do.



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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
75. Because his rhetoric is indistinguishable from Teabagger rhetoric.
He's anti-catholic. He's a repressed white male. He thinks the law shouldn't have to apply to him. He complains about paying taxes while complaining about cuts in spending. He's prone to kooky conspiracy theories. And he wants to start a revolution and overthrow the government now that there's a black democrat in charge.

Teabagger.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
77. Because some DU'ers think it makes liberals/progressives look good if he's from The Other Side.
It's a sad commentary on the state of politics in our nation, and an indication of how large the divide is between left and right.

Hoping beyond hope that he's "one of theirs".

The other side does it too, so I guess that makes it right for us to do it. It's schoolyard politics.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
83. Because he was an anti-taxation fanatic.
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 02:28 AM by coti
That was made clear by his actions.

The way I read his message, his leftist statements were red-herring, misdirecting distractions to deflect blame from the libertarians while maintaining his core, anti-tax message.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
85. We don't like the Teabaggers. This guy did a bad thing. Therefore we must connect them.
By any means possible>
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
86. Wanting our unionized auto companies to go under is exactly what teabaggers want
Bet this guy drove an imported car.

As for “terrible health care problem”, do you think this guy was for Medicare for all or something? Shit, he didn't want to pay his taxes that are paying for the Medicare we have now.

I think you may be confused here.

Don
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
88. The teabaggers are making him a martyr
That's part of the reason.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
89. If the teabaggers want to claim this guy, I suggest we keep quiet.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. ^^^THIS^^^
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
90. I don't think he was a teabagger.
His screed (which was chilling, by the way) had components of leftist and rightist ideologies. To boil him down to 'teabagger' status with what little we know of him is disingenuous.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
93. Probably the fact that he was well off and most concered about not paying taxes.
He didn't rant about the poor needing help, or the unjust wars... he sprinkled a few populist comments in his anti-tax rant, and then flew a plane into an IRS building.

TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
95. Maybe they think it's worth DU's credibility to say that? Immediate gratification talking point?
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