Today I figured out why we still have our Dean signs and other memorabilia.

[madfloridian]

I was clearing out a little-used room this week, one that is so easy to keep piling stuff in because there is nowhere else to put it. It is the hardest kind of room to clean.

It really hit me as to why we keep all the stuff from when we were so active in 2003, both locally and in a national way.

It is because we thought we were making a difference. We really did believe that. We felt like it was a turning point in the way politics was done. It is true in the internet aspect...that was new and it is still going on.

Trouble is we did not really make a difference or bring any change to the way politics works. And there is the problem of the party in a nutshell.

It is like all the activism now that goes on is ignored or treated as being too partisan. I believe in my heart that the Conservadems who are "retiring" are retiring because we annoy the hell of them with our demands that our party stand for something. Evan Byah has openly shown contempt for us "partisans."

We both still greatly admire Howard Dean as one of the most powerful spokesmen for what is real and what our party should address. I don't think he will run again, so saving the signs and stickers and such has nothing to do with the future.

It has to do with the past about 7 years ago. It was when my hubby and I thought we mattered and could bring about a turning in the party and country.

That should still be considered Dean's contribution, that he stood up and said what people were feeling in their heart. But the Democrat party has no use for him now, he did not toe the line.

We keep the Dean campaign stuff for what it meant to us, and to our fellow Deaniacs locally. There were a lot of us really. There were Greens, Republicans, Democrats who worked together because he spoke things no one else dared say. We did the on the ground work for the party, and the usual leaders let us do it. After that they were begging for people to "get things done."

I put everything back in the drawer in that room, just can't throw it away. Hubby still gets tears when he sees Dean on TV. He probably always will.

He doesn't go to the local Democratic meetings anymore, neither do I. In our area unless you go to meetings, you can't get their email updates because they might not have a quorum.

We really did not fit well with the local party because we questioned the choice of candidates, we questioned the way they took down a handsome intelligent guy, a great debater and speaker...and put a dull not very bright fundamentalist Christian in his place. When he spoke he sounded just like the Republicans. He was anti-choice, anti-gay, and against stem cell research. They dried up our candidate's funding, they are quite good at that. We worked for his campaign, we donated and fundraised for him.

Did I mention it was because he was openly gay? The party could not let that happen in this area of Florida, though he was admired by many.

That's how things are here still. Same ones in control, never questioning.

So scoff if you wish, but we are saving the signs and stickers because they represent what we don't seem to have right now....the feeling that we matter as activists.

[Grand Taurean]

1. Dean/Clark! That would have been a great ticket.

.

[dkf]

2. Yeah. That would have rocked.

Still love that Howard Dean. He will alway be my political ideal.

[cliffordu]

4. Dean/Clark would have been magnificent.

[liberalmike27]

18. Yep, I've got a plastic Dean Yard Sign

Still hanging on the wall, in front of me, over the top of my monitor, and some buttons I ordered all pinned to an old sock, hanging on the wall.

His campaign was the only one I worked for before or after, and the only one I've contributed to. It was sad it all ended, not really because of the scream, but because of the comment about breaking up the media on the Chris Mathews College tour. They turned on him with a vengeance after that night.

It just goes to show you what happens to anyone who takes on the obfuscated media points, the ignored, like media concentration, or the Pentagon budget. They will cut you to pieces.

[madfloridian]

3. Sometimes I think he did us no favor in trying to empower us.

Because in politics things have been the same forever.

[Dr.Phool]

5. I still have my Dean sign!

Dammit! What was the Congressional candidates name again? We met at a Camp Wellstone, and we spoke at a few events together when I was running. Mostly I-4 corridor meetings.

It's hell when you start getting old and lose your mind- er memory. I wish I was still as sharp as Fred Williams, who ran those meetings.

[madfloridian]

7. The one the party put in was Hagenmeier....or something like that.

He sounded just like Adam Putnam. Jeff Siemer was our choice...super guy.

[Dr.Phool]

9. Jeff Siemer! That's the guy.

He was sharp. I liked him.

[madfloridian]

11. He was a real friend, bright and well-spoken.

He would visit us and I would be even more impressed.

[madfloridian]

49. Many of us believe his support of Dean made the local Dems turn on him.

We wondered which was the most powerful factor...being a Dean supporter or being openly gay.

Guess we won't ever know. They moved from here, and I have not heard from them in ages.

[Yurovsky]

6. I think getting the DINOs out of the party will actually help...

once we get the dead wood out, perhaps the progressive, activist base of the party will actually be reflected in the leadership.

Or maybe not...:(

[Dr.Phool]

10. Unfortunately, I fear that's not dead wood.

It's a fungus that's going to kill the whole tree.

[madfloridian]

15. Good point.

[1776Forever]

8. Don't know if you saw this video with Gov. Dean on Mourning Joe today - Awesome!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7732997

[madfloridian]

13. He said the GOP is not doing good...we are doing badly..can't deliver health care.

Thanks for the video, I missed that. Great segment.

:hi:

[ashling]

12. I've got stuff from my first campaign

LBJ for the USA - 1964, then there is my McGovern/Eagleton button, Jimmy Carter, Mondale, even William Winter for Gov. of Miss.

[Forkboy]

14. He wasn't my first choice, but I sure loved what he brought to the table.

He's a good man, and we need far more like him...and quickly.

[lpbk2713]

16. When The Ledger endorsed Smirky for the second time I realized how far into the Dark Ages we were.

Just watching some of the city and county meetings on Bright House makes me realize
all too painfully it will take a lot to get this area back in to the civilzed world.

[madfloridian]

47. Many Ledger employees and reporters were upset over the endorsement.

They were not exactly quiet about it either.

It was a very bad day when that happened.

[upi402]

17. CNN sunk Dean replaying the "Dean Scream" on tape loop

And my neighbors stopped waving back after I put up a Dean yard sign and Dean stickers on my vehicles.

I just recently tossed the stuff. I never gave so much money to a politician after that.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

20. I Was A Hardcore Deaniac And Still Am, But This Isn't True

CNN didn't sink Howard Dean's ship, although it may have helped ensure that it would never resurface. If you remember, "The Scream" happened AFTER Dean finished third in Iowa. I'm still, to this day, not sure why voters who had all but anointed Dean the nominee only a few months before, suddenly did a 180 and decided they didn't like him anymore. The best I can figure, it's because they thought the only way to counter the typical Republican "our guy is better at war than the wimpy Democrat" card was to nominate a war hero. Boy, did they ever underestimate the hypocrisy of the Republican Party.

I don't know if Howard would have defeated Bush in 2004. My gut tells me that the dumb public would resent him for telling them the truth. Deep down, most voters WANT to be lied to. They DEMAND to be told that everything is great and they can have everything they want and it won't cost them a dime. They bemoan the fact that politicians lie, then they summarily reject politicians who tell them the truth. One thing they NEVER would have gotten Dean on, though, is the whole "flip-flop" thing. But hear me now and believe me later, a Party that can turn a war hero into a coward, all while singing the praises of a deserter, would have found SOMETHING on Howard. And if not, the voter fraud would have taken care of all the rest.

[depakid]

21. There isn't any question in my mind that Dean would have beaten Bush

I don't even think it would have been all that close. Unlike Kerry, Dean rarely pulled punches- talked straight- without "nuancing you to death" and most importantly, he hit back.

In short- Dean got it- and still does.

[karynnj]

57. Uhm, I remeber Dean saying that he didn't like being a pin cushion

when he got the normal frontrunner attacks from everyone.

The fact is that Kerry thought they had the facts out on the SBVT - and the media did have his entire Navy record that backed him 100% and they spoke of the Nixon tapes that spoke of investigating Kerry in 1971 and finding he was a clean cut war hero. This was FAR MORE than Clinton's war room had for anything. In addition, they gave the media a 36 page memo of things that were lies in the book. They also proofed that they shared a lawyer and donors with B/C.

When you have solid proof behind you, that was how you always dealt with lies in the past. The fact was it was a media character assassination - far beyond what hit Dean in late December. Did you ever wonder why the media never asked the SBVT for any proof given that it was the official Navy record they disputed.

[upi402]

23. This is the piece of crap who would NOT let up on Dean

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/schneider.bill.html
CNN's very own Bill Schneider. CNN replayed that clip over and over and over - for weeks!
People are easy to fool. This simplistic crap works. It's bas, dirty, and low. And it also works. Why can't us smart Democrats get that?
If you think that mudslinging doesn't makes a difference by now I don't know what I can say to convince.

The scream was a former wrestler's testosterone laden way to rally the troops. He didn't win there but he was on a roll and all was not lost at that point.
I'm still pissed at Schneider and haven't watched CNN since.

"a Party that can turn a war hero into a coward, all while singing the praises of a deserter" needed a fighter like Dean, not a wimp, to counterpuch them in the brains.

[Voltaire]

33. Thing is most of the media was in the room

I know, because I was there. I wasn't more than 8 feet away from Dean when he made his speech. And every goddamned one of the media whores in that room KNEW what was going on. And they went on the air and talked about Howard like he was a madman. I really got a bad taste in my mouth for the media and for the Democratic Party apparatus that night that has never really gone away. I supported Obama, but I didn't work it hard like I worked for Dean and I know it is because of the bitterness I have from that night in Iowa. Still.

[upi402]

45. Thanks for sharing that, and

:patriot: for your service

[karynnj]

58. Kerry was not a wimp and stood up to far more than Dean did -

without whining about being a "pincushion"

[Jax]

25. "I was a hardcore Deaniac"

bullshit.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

41. Doubt Me If You Want........

............but you didn't see my car in 2003, OR my check register. You didn't see the way I stumped for Howard, and then stood in line in the snow just to meet him and get him sign his book for me. I COULD try to convince you just how much I was in love with Howard Dean (in a very manly, heterosexual way, of course), and how devastated I was the day he dropped out of the race, and how proud of him I was when he engineered the huge, nationwide Democratic victories in 2006 and 2008. I COULD even direct you to all the various posts on this message board where I've loudly sung the praises of Howard Dean, and called him the person I admire most in all of American politics. I COULD try to do all that, but I'm guessing my effort would be wasted on someone who posts snide, hateful, one-word replies.

[upi402]

48. I'm hearing you

And thanks for your efforts. No worries on the man-crush either eh? :wow: lol

If that Cowboys' star indicates where you live, then you need much support from us here. Seems the folks I know from Texas are very conservative. I feel lost in space in my Republican neighborhood... and I'm in a "liberal" county in a liberal state.

Didn't Dean say he would undo the corporate media and THEN all the character assassination started?

[eridani]

28. Kerry won Iowa because he hired a caucus specialist who did intensive

--outreach to local Dems. Dean pioneered the use of the internet in national campaigns, but did not connect this to traditional person to person contact. Obama melded the old with the new, and laid out a model for how national campaigns should be organized.

The good news is that now we know, and progressives should adapt their campaigns accordingly.

[upi402]

46. Very good point

But do you also think Obama was part of the machine, whereas Dean threatened to change the media and buck the system?

[eridani]

51. Obama got his stake from the financial community sociopaths

As did Clinton. Clinton spent her stash on useless parasites like Mark Penn, and Obama spent his on organizers and sophisticated computer programming. Dean, of course, didn't have that kind of backing, and his use of the internet was essentially a beta test.

The thing about effective campaign techniques, however, is that they work for anyone regardless of how progressive they are. Just like light switches work the same way for good citizens and sociopaths.

[nikto]

61. ChoppinBroccoli, well said!

I hear you now and BELIEVE you NOW.:-)

[peanut]

64. I'll tell you what sunk Howard in Iowa

John Kerry and John Edwards made a deal and Kerry especially sunk Howard with a huge influx of cash in Iowa at the last minute. Money buys everything. Kerry / Edwards, oh wait, weren't they a lousy ticket?

Howard Dean's campaign broke my heart. Not HoHo, i still think he's the best presidential possible we've had in a long time (note i do not say "presidential candidate"). BUT the course of that campaign proved to me once and for all that MONEY wins over everything. Kerry and Edwards joined forces to take Dean out in Iowa, end of story. MSM was only to happy to help.

[Forkboy]

22. And a lot of Dems joined right in.

Even for a cynical prick like myself it was an eye opener.

[upi402]

24. I remember shaking my head over that

That kneecapping from his own party cemented it for me, that corporatism was in control of the Democratic Party. Enter Kerry (who I foolishly debated in support of on MOR boards post Dean).

[JCMach1]

19. Are you serious? They ran off the party Chair ca. 2002-2004?

If I remember correctly, he was a great and dedicated guy in a very difficult part of Florida.

The same sorts of things caused many progressives in our part of Florida to just work outside the party all together. As you know, the Florida party is a right mess.

[Dr.Phool]

34. A right mess?

Brother, is that an understatement.

[JCMach1]

40. When I ran for the Legislature in 2002, I got to see the mess way too up close

and personal...

[DFW]

26. About comments here about Bill Schneider and Howard Dean

I know both of them, although Schneider far less well.

I concur with all assessments of both of them made here. Some of Schneider's CNN colleagues hold him in
less than the highest of esteem, too, but don't ask for a link--some people are interested in keeping their jobs.

Howard freely admits that the phenomenon of his 2003 campaign sped right past any ability he had to
capitalize on it, but he isn't looking back. He told me two years ago that he was talking on the phone
to Al Gore in 2004 after his own campaign was collapsing, and Gore reminded him that "this thing was
far bigger than any one of us." Howard never forgot that, and as DNC Chairman turned it into the very
successful 50 state strategy. Rahm Emanuel, who disagreed, never forgave Howard for sticking to it,
and, probably for being so successful with it. I don't know where Tim Kaine was during the Massachusetts
senatorial campaign, but it's a sure bet Howard would not have let it happen, no matter how weak a
candidate Coakley was.

Hoawrd says he isn't interested in leading the party as a candidate any more because he feels that younger
blood is needed. The first time I heard him say this was about two weeks after Obama's inauguration. He
may be right, but some hotter blood would seem needed as well, and Howard doesn't appear to have lost any.

He once declared he respresented the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party." As far as I am concerned, he still does.

[Jackpine Radical]

43. "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

Just for the sake of completeness, Howard properly credited this line to Paul Wellstone, and used it in tribute to Paul.

I remember Howard Dean saying this, and it still brings me nearly to tears when I think of what might have been.

Incidentally, Howard Dean's old political structure morphed locally into something called the "Chippewa Valley Progressives," and it is still going strong.

[cap]

27. democracy for america is still kickin'

they are behind the latest move for single payer.... maybe put your time and effort there. That's where I'm going.

[DFW]

31. They certainly are

They get contributions from me on a regular basis (as well as occasional care packages
of some of the best dark chocolate Europe has to offer--got to keep the troops happy!).

[crazyjoe]

29. too bad Dean couldn't win one primary.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

42. Point Of Order...........

...........Howard DID win one primary. I'm pretty sure he won Vermont. It was several months after he had already dropped out of the race, so it was meaningless, but still...........he DID win one. Goes to show you how much he is loved in his home State, as well, that people were willing to vote for him symbolically even after he'd dropped out.

[JNelson6563]

30. I've still got mine too!

:toast:

[Voltaire]

32. I have kept most of my stuff too

I am now and always have been a Deaniac. No, a Dean Democrat is what I am. We started something and the DLCers can't stand us to this day, so I know we did something right. Howard Dean is my Captain With A Mighty Heart, he speaks for me and I will always stand with him.

[Vinca]

35. I recently sold a few pieces of political memorabilia and ran

across a Dean button I had. Couldn't sell it.

[JVS]

36. If you're annoying conservadems out of the party. you're doing good work

[madfloridian]

37. Now that just might be true.

:hi:

[JVS]

39. You know that they're just the kind of assholes who would drop a turd on their way out the door.

So while things are shitty now, we'll be better when they're gone.

[tblue37]

38. Conservadems are retiring to rake in big bucks as lobbyists. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

44. They only LOOK like they're switching sides.

They've been building their corporate resumes for years.

[crispini]

50. I am sorry your local party has not been a home to you.

I guess I am fortunate -- I still have my Dean signs and my Dean shirt, but most of us Deaniacs here have gotten nicely "absorbed" into the local party structure -- there are good people and bad people here, but mostly they are just people.

[Sebastian Doyle]

52. God damn the DLC for sabotaging him the way they did

Just think where this country could be right now if we were in year 6 of the Dean administration. :evilfrown:

[Jim Sagle]

53. It was a time when the illusion of self-government was still widespread.

That illusion has now been taken from us by brute force.

A president can sneer right in our collective face and tell us he does not "begrudge" the billions in tax money he helped force us to give his bankster friends - and no one in our government even voices our outrage.

The same president can then form a commission designed and intended to gut Social Security, and is lauded all over Washington for his "realism."

This is the open humiliation we've all been dreading - the time described by Frank Zappa as the time when they show the back wall of the theater.

Serfdom awaits, like it or not.

[madfloridian]

54. Obama's Social Security gambit will hurt seniors so much.

It is a terrible thing to do.

[KoKo]

55. And...I'm still remembering how we Championed Al Gore..and thought he'd run in '08.

We have to hope...but "cleaning out that old room"....well sadly...it's starting to look like what it is.. "Cleaning out the Old Room."

Time to donate to "Goodwill?"

[Kat45]

56. I still have my signs and stuff from the Clark campaign.

Similar reasons.

[midnight]

59. I wish this administration would reach out to this amazing man.

[nikto]

60. A beautiful, sad and very-resonant post

I identify with all the sentiments expressed in madfloridian's post.

The image of her husband with tears in his eyes when he sees Dean on TV, reminds me of ME.

But alas, our political system has run away from us like
a severely-spooked horse tearing-off from the barn, out into
a blizzard where it will find only a lonely, cold death.

Maybe we never HAD a system that was OURS in the 1st place?

[hulka38]

62. Dean's was the one voice saying that Dem Senators need to use reconciliation

and that HCR was not reform unless it included a PO those many weeks ago when HCR began to unravel at the seems. I didn't hear anyone else saying that at the time and I was listening carefully. Dean identifies the problem and the solutions so clearly, iow the diagnosis and remedy, and he's always correct on the big issues. When he's critical of Dem leadership, it's because it is necessary. His motives are pure and he's incorruptible. Dean should be a heroic figure in the Democratic Party. If the PO passes and the Senate begins to use reconciliation to push through Dean should receive a large part of the credit.

[ejbr]

63. k & r n/t