Nah, we aren't in a depression

[AllentownJake]

ROOSEVELT, N.Y. — Homelessness in rural and suburban America is straining shelters this winter as the economy founders and joblessness hovers near double digits – a "perfect storm of foreclosures, unemployment and a shortage of affordable housing," in one official's eyes.

"We are seeing many families that never before sought government help," said Greg Blass, commissioner of Social Services in Suffolk County on eastern Long Island.

"We see a spiral in food stamps, heating assistance applications; Medicaid is skyrocketing," Blass added. "It is truly reaching a stage of being alarming."

The federal government is again counting the nation's homeless and, by many accounts, the suburban numbers continue to rise, especially for families, women, children, Latinos and men seeking help for the first time. Some have to be turned away.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/16/suburban-homeless-rising-_n_464388.html

If it wasn't for the social safety net, this would be times 10.

[Mari333]

1. Im in Michigan, yes we are

I tried to tell someone this the other day, young guy, he basically said 'where are the bread lines?'

I told him how many people are on food stamps. those are the bread lines. food stamps didnt exist back in the 30s.


without those programs people would starve.

[Swede]

3. delete

replying to wrong DUer

[proudohioan]

22. I agree...

If not for our current social safety nets, this WOULD be a depression!

[laughingliberal]

2. It's a big hit for those living in states with very weak social safety nets

Here, in Nevada, our asshole governor is considering opting out of Medicaid altogether. No alternative he's proposing, just wants to dump the poor and sick.

[MineralMan]

4. Yup. Bus 'em to California. That's the plan.

Morons.

[proudohioan]

25. I am SO glad to be living in Ohio...

no sarcasm here! IMO, we have wonderful social safety nets!

Best of luck to you, laughingliberal!

t.

:)

[raccoon]

41. Can he do that? nt

[laughingliberal]

44. Yeah, he can

During our recent HCR debate Reid tried to get the public option in by having an opt out clause for states. It was mentioned then that states are allowed to opt out of Medicaid but none ever have. Why does my state only set bad trends?

[Swede]

5. Depression is a drop of GDP of 10% in a year. It was -2.4% last year.

So,not even close.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Thought There Is No Text Book Definition Of Depression

Like there is with recession which is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.


That being said there is a lot of pain in the land.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. I read that a Depression is 4 quarters of neg. GDP.

But...GDP figures are cooked, so what's the point?


"A recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
A Depression is when you lose your job".

[MannyGoldstein]

8. That's One Institution's Definition

By that definition, if one person had $100 Trillion, and the rest of us had zero and were starving to death, things would be OK.

[AllentownJake]

9. The GDP number is absolutely meaningless

A cooked government statistic that has been manipulated to a point since it's inception you can hardly get any good data from the number, the only worth it has is the components collected.

[annabanana]

16. +1.. This flew out the window when they stopped including

things like food and heat.

[DisgustedInMN]

10. 27%...

.. of "GDP" is banksters, sitting on their fat asses, producing absolutely nothing, and robbing us blind.

Sorry bud, we are in The Second Great Depression and shuffling the statistics doesn't change the realty. AND..

.. it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, IF it ever does.

Figures lie, and liars figure.

[area51]

42. +1

I just wish we weren't in the 2nd Great Depression; it really started in 2001 and shows no sign of ending. That's why it's important to create jobs, using what worked in the '30s with WPA and CCC, stop offshoring and inshoring jobs, end the two wars of choice and start funding our infrastructure, including beginning a transition to single-payer.

[cutlassmama]

43. Yup

[conscious evolution]

26. You beleive the goverments economic data?

Want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Timmy Geithner: "All Is Well" (Video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

[AllentownJake]

11. How the hell does this guy have a job nt.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. He's Been A Very Good Earner For His Patrons

Did you know that Geithner was a registered Republican until he joined the Clinton administration?

[flyarm]

15. His daddy worked with Obama's mommy...with the Ford Foundation in Indonesia..

You know the Ford Foundation that many have believed was a front for the CIA??

yeah ..that one..

and of course Timmy was mentored by Henry Kissinger..whose nick name was THE BUTCHER OF CAMBODIA..

its all a re-deux of the shadow government..but some just don't want to see what is slapping them in the face!

[laughingliberal]

18. Serves at the pleasure of the President. Guess that tells the story, huh?

I can not believe this man has not been fired. That, in and of itself, tells me the rightward march continues unabated.

[flyarm]

13. but but but..the Goldman guys at the WH say all is happy ..of course they run the place..but

but but ..be happy..they saved 2 million jobs..of course since the give away of our tax bundle called stimulus..4 million jobs have been LOSTTTTTTTTTT..now sitting at 15 MILLION LOST JOBS.. and over 200 million still not spent of the stimulus..and fuck if it should be spent on job creation..oh no..more will ha ve to go to the Goldamn boys or the BOA boys ...and dem poll numbers are dropping through the floor..but ..those Goldman boys want you to be happy!! Smile now..keep that Hopey changey shit going,..

After all, good ole Goldman will pump the money into Obama's re-election even more-so this next time....to make up for all the young folks (who wouldn't listen to the older folks the last time..) who have now or
" are facing " losing jobs..and are sitting home with their college degree's and not so hopey or changey feeling right about now!!

[AllentownJake]

17. The other 200 billion in not spent stimulus funds

Is for paying people who got jobs to keep them another year, the stimulus job creation has reached it's peak.

The meme about not spent stimulus money is bullshit.

If you give a state money for an infrastructure project and they keep construction workers or outsource it, once that project is completed, you need another project to keep them employed.

[conscious evolution]

30. I have discovered that a lot of stimulus funds

are not being spent because they require matching funds from the entity or persons applying for them.
Who the hell has matching funds available these days?

[AllentownJake]

31. If it is a State Government

Most of them barely have the resources to pay existing resources, with issuing new debt.

[asdjrocky]

19. I invite anyone that says things are getting better to come to my neighborhood

and meet some of the good people there.

Good people that would give anything for a job.

Good people that are hungry.

Good people that I registered to vote, most for the first time.

Come to my neighborhood and tell them there's no depression.

[elocs]

20. The old definition goes that it's a recession if your neighbor loses his job,

but a depression if you lose yours. I read once that the Great Depression was referred to as a "depression" because they didn't want to use the scare-word "recession". My how times have changed.

I am fortunate here in Wisconsin to have health care through BadgerCare Plus for people without children and I get enough food assistance to get me through the month. I work part time but it is enough to pay my bills, so I'm getting by.

[Mira]

21. Front Page of my paper today:

"Goodwill hampered by bad times" Donations down by 40 - 60 percent since January 1 at Goodwill - The Rescue Mission - The Salvation Army.

They say: "Need is the only thing increasing these days".
And the food pantry's shelves are empty as well.

[AllentownJake]

27. That is where Hoover got himself in trouble

He was busying touting the virtues of charities and churches in helping with the depression, not realizing they were just as broke as everyone else due to the downturn in giving.

[theophilus]

23. I agree with you. Thanks for the note of positivity! n/t

[HughMoran]

24. I was just thinking how me and my neighbor were out of work at the same time last year

For about 3 months, starting about now actually. We're both working now and hoping that the recent trends continue (keeps fingers crossed).

[laughingliberal]

28. Crossing fingers for the continued employment of you and your neighbor

Jobs are the best deficit reduction plan there is. More workers=more taxpayers=increased revenue.

[AllentownJake]

29. Anecdotal evidence is just that

Anecdotal and will you guys take that chart somewhere else, anyone with a brain knows it isn't something to be shilling around.

[HughMoran]

33. I'm actually representative of the unemployment picture in my area

Seems odd that you're using the word 'shilling' when:

1) that job loss chart is accurate - job losses have at least taken a hiatus - let's hope it lasts and goes positive for a while!

2) The unemployment rate in my state is not even as bad as the 1992 recession, so it's not 'anecdotal', it's 'representative' of my state.

[AllentownJake]

34. Well good for New Hampshire

Why did I think you were from North Carolina. The Fed data on your neighbors for the last quarter was not good so buckle up.

[Brickbat]

32. I remember learning in high school about how graphs can be laid out in such a way to soften the

information they are conveying. That one you posted, which as I understand was taken from www.barackobama.com, is a jewel of creative layout.

[AllentownJake]

35. Interesting way to convey 10 million job losses over two years

Eventually the patient stops bleeding, the answer to whether they survive is the blood transfusion afterwards.

[Brickbat]

38. Exactly.

Despite the lovely symmetrical "upward" movement, almost every bar on there represents job losses.

[HughMoran]

36. This trend started last May and has continued

If it was published by the NYT would it be more credible?

[Brickbat]

37. I don't disbelieve the information.

I object to the presentation, which makes a comforting blue color going upward in almost a mirror image of "Bush year" losses. They're all losses. They're losses on top of losses. Smaller losses don't necessarily mean good news, because once you've cut to the bone and into the bone, there isn't much left to cut.

[HughMoran]

39. You have to start somewhere - these things don't just jump from losses to gains overnight

...but I suspect that you realize this. And even though this is the fastest turnaround from a major downturn (Great Depression, 1980's), only miracles need apply for too many these days.

[Brickbat]

40. I don't see a turnaround, even though that's what the graph could be viewed as.

I see a slowing down of the downturn. Which certainly can be a sign of approaching good news. I don't expect miracles, but I'd like to see is a little more leadership and some sort of jobs plan, instead of nibbling around the edges with tax breaks and stimulus plans in very specific industries.