Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

delete ?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:03 PM
Original message
delete ?
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 05:26 PM by kpete
Conducting human mind control experiments are clearly illegal and unethical. They're more sophisticated than ever today, and claims that MK-ULTRA experiments were halted in the 1970s were false. Renamed they continue...
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2010/021610Lendman.shtml



MK-ULTRA: The CIA's Mind Control Program
By Stephen Lendman

MK-ULTRA was the code name for a secret CIA mind control program, begun in 1953, under Director Allen Dulles. Its purpose was multifold, including to perfect a truth drug for interrogating suspected Soviet spies during the Cold War. It followed earlier WW II hypnosis, primitive drugs research, and the US Navy's Project Chatter, explained by its Bureau of Medicine and Surgery in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request as follows:

It began "in the fall of 1947 focusing on the identification and testing of drugs (LSD and others) in interrogations and the recruitment of agents. The research included laboratory experiments on both animal and human subjects. The program ended shortly after the Korean War in 1953."

It was run under the direction of Dr. Charles Savage of the Naval Medical Research Institute, Bethesda, MD from 1947 - 1953, after which CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence continued it under the name Project Bluebird, its first mind control program to:

* learn how to condition subjects to withstand information from being extracted from them by known means;
* develop interrogation methods to exert control;
* develop memory enhancement techniques; and
* establish ways to prevent hostile control of Agency personnel.

In 1951, it was renamed Project Artichoke, then MK-ULTRA under Deputy CIA Director Richard Helms in 1953. It aimed to control human behavior through psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs, electroshock, radiation, graphology, paramilitary techniques, and psychological/sociological/anthropological methods, among others - a vast open-field of mind experimentation trying anything that might work, legal or otherwise on willing and unwitting subjects.

Ongoing at different times were 149 sub-projects in 80 US and Canadian universities, medical centers and three prisons, involving 185 researchers, 15 foundations and numerous drug companies. Everything was top secret, and most records later destroyed, yet FOIA suits salvaged thousands of pages with documented evidence of the horrific experiments and their effects on human subjects.

more, much, much more:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/50174

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. What is this? PrisonPlanet.com?
Sorry, kpete. Couldn't resist.

It is disturbing the things our own government is capable of doing to us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. so will you believe the Legal Statements of Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director, Central Intell. on
MK-ULTRA??

Legal Statements of

Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director, Central Intelligence Agency;

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/index.htm

Documents Referring to Discovery of
Additional MKULTRA Material






C O N T E N T S


Page

Cover Page ..................................................... (I)
Staff Page ..................................................... (II)

.............................................. <1>


Statements of:

Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director, Central Intelligence Agency;
accompanied by; Frank Laubinger, Office of Technical Services,
Central Intelligence Agency; Al Brody, Office of Inspector
General, Central Intelligence Agency; Ernest Mayerfield, Office
of General Counsel, Central Intelligence Agency, and George
Cary, Legislative Counsel, Central Intelligence Agency......... 8

Philip Goldman, former employee, Central Intelligence Agency..... 50
John Gittinger, former employee, Central Intelligence Agency..... 51

Appendix A.--XVII. Testing and Use of Chemical and
Biological Agents by the Intelligence Community................ 65

Appendix B.--Documents Referring to Discovery of
Additional MKULTRA Material...................................... 103

Appendix C.--Documents Referring to Subprojects................ 109


Materials Submitted for the Record:

Psychological Assessments.................................... 17
"Truth" Drugs in Interrogation............................... 25
Construction of Gorman Annex................................. 39
Subproject 54................................................ 41
Drug Testing in Foreign Countries............................ 43
MKSEARCH, OFTEN/CHICKWIT..................................... 169
Employees Terminated Because of Their Participation
in MKULTRA Subproject 3.................................... 170
QKHILLTOP Definition......................................... 171




http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/Hearing03.htm


Table of Contents

TESTIMONY OF ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER,
DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
Accompanied by Frank Laubinger, Office of Technical Services; Al Brody, Office of Inspector General; Ernest Mayerfield, Office of General Counsel; and George L. Cary, Legislative Counsel


Admiral TURNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to begin by thanking you and Senator Kennedy for having a joint hearing this morning. I hope this will expedite and facilitate our getting all the information that both of your committees need into the record quickly.

I would like also to thank you both for prefacing the remarks today by reminding us all that the events about which we are here to talk are 12- to 24-years old. They in no way represent the current activities or policies of the Central Intelligence Agency.

What we are here to do is to give you all the information that we now have and which we did not previously have on a subject known s Project MKULTRA, a project which took place from 1953 to 1964. It was an umbrella project under which there were numerous subprojects for research, among other things, on drugs and behavioral modification. What the new material that we offer today is a supplement to the considerable material that was made available in 1975, during the Church committee hearings, and also to the Senate Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research.

At that time, the CIA offered up all of the information and documents it believed it had available. The principal one available at that time that gave the greatest amount of information on this subject was a report of the CIA's Inspector General written in 1963, and which led directly to the termination of this activity in 1964, 13 years ago.

The information available in 1975 to the various investigating groups was indeed sparse, first because of the destruction of material that took place in 1973, as detailed by Senator Kennedy a minute ago, with the concurrence of the then Director of Central Intelligence and under the supervision of the Director of the Office of Technical Services that supervised Project MKULTRA.



-9-


The material in 1975 was also sparse because most of the CIA people who had been involved in 1953 to 1964 in this activity had retired from the Agency. I would further add that I think the material was sparse in part because it was the practice at that time not to keep detailed records in this category.

For instance, the 1963 report of the Inspector General notes:



Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.

In brief, there were few records to begin with and less after the destruction of 1973.

What I would like to do now, though, is to proceed and let you know what the new material adds to our knowledge of this topic, and I will start by describing how the material was discovered and why it was not previously discovered. The material in question, some seven boxes, had been sent to our Retired Records Center outside of the Washington area. It was discovered that as the result of an extensive search by an employee charged with the responsibility for maintaining our holdings on behavioral drugs and for responding to Freedom of Information Act requests on this subject.

During the Church committee investigation of 1975, searches for MKULTRA-related material were made by examining both the active and the retired records of all of the branches of CIA considered likely to have had an association with MKULTRA documents. The retired records of the Budget and Fiscal Section of the branch that was responsible for such work were not searched, however. This was because the financial paper associated with sensitive projects such as MKULTRA were normally maintained by the branch itself under the project title, MKULTRA, not by the Budget and Fiscal Section under the project title, MKULTRA, not by the Budget and Fiscal Section under a special budget file.

In the case at hand, however, this newly located material had been sent to the Retired Records Center in 1970 by the Budget and Fiscal Section of this branch as part of its own retired holdings. In short, what should have been filed by the branch itself was filed by the Budget and Fiscal Section, and what should have been filed under the project title, MKULTRA, was filed under budget and fiscal matters. The reason for this departure from the normal procedure of that time is simply not known, and as a result of it, however, the material escaped retrieval and destruction in 1973, as well as discovery in 1975.

The employee who located this material did so by leaving no stone unturned in his efforts to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request, or several of them, in fact. He reviewed all of the listings of material of this branch, stored at the Retired Records Center, including those of the Budget and Fiscal Section, and thus discovered the MKULTRA-related documents, which had been missed in the previous searches.

In sum, the agency failed to uncover these particular documents in 1973, in the process of attempting to destroy them. It similarly failed to locate them in 1975, in response to the Church committee hearings. I am personally persuaded that there is no evidence of any attempt to conceal this material during the earlier searches. Moreover, as we will discuss as we proceed, I do not believe the material itself is such that



-10-


there would be a motive on the part of the CIA to withhold this, having disclosed what it did in 1975.

Next, let me move to the nature of this recently located material. It is important to remember what I have just noted, that these folders that were discovered are finance folders. The bulk of the material in them consists of approvals for the advance of funds, vouchers, and accountings and such, most of which are not very informative as to the nature of the activities that they were supporting. Occasional project proposals or memoranda commenting on some aspect of a subproject are scattered throughout this material. In general, however, the recovered material does not include overall status reports or other documents relating to operational considerations, or to the progress on various subprojects, though some elaboration of the activities contemplated does appear from time to time.

There are roughly three categories of projects. First, there are 149 MKULTRA subprojects, many of which appear to have some connection with research into behavioral modification, drug acquisition and testing, or administering drugs surreptitiously. Second, there are two boxes of miscellaneous MKULTRA papers, including audit reports and financial statements from intermediary funding mechanisms used to conceal CIA sponsorship of various research projects.

Finally, there are 33 additional subprojects concerning certain intelligence activities previously funded under MKULTRA but which have nothing to do either with behavioral modifications, drugs or toxins, or any closely related matter.

We have attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under descriptive headings. In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files. The following 15 categories are the ones we have divided these into.

First, research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol. Within this, there are 17 projects probably not involving human testing. There are 14 subprojects definitely involving testing on human volunteers. There are 19 subprojects probably including tests on human volunteers and 6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting human beings.

Second, there is research on hypnosis, eight subprojects, including two involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.

Third, there are seven projects on the acquisition of chemicals or drugs.

Fourth, four subprojects on the aspects of the magician's art, useful in covert operations, for instance, the surreptitious delivery of drug-related materials.

Fifth, there are nine projects on studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral change during psychotherapy.

Sixth, there are projects on library searches and attendants at seminars and international conferences on behavioral modifications.

Seventh, there are 23 projects on motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessments of behavior and training techniques.

Eighth, there are three subprojects on polygraph research.

Ninth, there are three subprojects on funding mechanisms for MKULTRA's external research activities.



go to link to read the rest!!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Don Caballero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is that you Alex Jones?
Holy crap the conspiracy stuff infiltrating the DU forums is everywhere. Tinfoil time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. wake up and smell the grits.
Mk-Ultra is not tinfoil hat stuff.It did,and still does,occur.
Google Church Committee Hearings sometime.That was the US SENATEs investigation into the crimes of the CIA held back in the seventies.The Mk-Ultra program is just one of the programs brought to light by Senator Church and his Senate Committee.
If you still have doubts,read up on DUer Octafish and his research on the subject.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That's the same guy who posts UFO stuff.
FYI.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. A piece from Bill Moyers Journal on the Church Committee
with a link to some of the reports.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10262007/profile2.html

On January 27, 1975, the Senate, in the wake of the Watergate scandal and alarmed by recent allegations of intelligence service misdeeds, voted to establish an 11-member investigating body along the lines of the recently concluded Watergate Committee.
The resulting body was chaired by Senator Frank Church (D-Idaho). Additional members of the Church Committee, or more formally the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities included its Vice-Chairman, John Tower (R-TX), Walter Mondale (D-MN) and prominent conservative, Barry Goldwater (R-AZ). Over nine months, the committee interviewed over 800 officials, held 250 executive and 21 public hearings, probing widespread intelligence abuses by the CIA, FBI and NSA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. So you think this is tinfoil conspiracy stuff? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. So, if documents are linked directly from the CIA FOIA website
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. Ouch that must hurt...
All that tinfoil up your ass.:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. U-Tube /President Clinton Apologizes for MK Ultra program!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Now where's my Reynold's Wrap?
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is no CIA mind control program!
And Sarah Palin would make an awesome president.



Wait!

What?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tmyers09 Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't delete.
Because a few people are unwilling to believe certain things about their government?

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/50174

There is the link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. No.Do not delete.
Sometimes truth,no matter how bitter or unwanted,needs exposure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. t delete - this appears to be an update, i.e., progress. There is no drudging up here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Mind control is the only known source of magnetism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Please do not delete.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 06:39 PM by H2O Man
Thanks.

If anyone cares to engage in a serious debate on the merits of the OP/article, I would be glad to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Ok. Why is it ok to think our government would engage in mind control
experiments and not to think it could also either allow 9/11 to happen or actually orchestrate 9/11 in order to advance an ideological agenda?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Well, I can't think of
any reason. But I can think of a good reason not to try to make this a 9/11 discussion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Why not? This is, after all, a sub-thread. Is discussing 9/11 now a taboo? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I think that
you know the answer to that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes. I know the answer to that. Just making a point. Good to see you H2O Man. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Don't delete.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kyril Enko Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Must.....obey!
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. At one point it WAS a conspiracy theory.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 12:03 AM by Wilms
Then, the theory about a conspiracy was proven.

;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. yes, i remember those days when it was just a conspiracy theory & only nutters thought it was real.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 05:39 AM by Hannah Bell
kind of like:

1. us involvement in the overthrow of allende & other foreign leaders
2. experiments on unsuspecting citizens in hospitals & mental facilities
3. deliberate release of bacteria in subways & other public places
4. government provocateurs initiating violence at protest marches
5. government-funded operatives bombing, kidnapping or otherwise harming "their own people" & blaming it on leftists, foreigners, terrorists or other scapegoats:

Strategy of Tension

During the Italian strategy of tension in which several bombings in the 1970s, attributed to far-left organizations, were in fact carried out by far-right organizations cooperating with the Italian secret services (see Operation Gladio, 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing, 1972 Peteano attack by Vincenzo Vinciguerra, 1973 assassination attempt of former Interior Minister Mariano Rumor, 1980 Bologna massacre, etc. and various investigations, for example by Guido Salvini)


The “Steak Knife” affair and Britain’s dirty war in Northern Ireland

After months of claims, counterclaims, denials and fresh accusations, it now seems highly likely that the one-time second in command of the Provisional Irish Republican Army’s (IRA’s) internal security was for many years an agent of British intelligence.

The Steak Knife allegations directly implicate the British government and its intelligence services in torture and extra-judicial murder.



I remember dismissing some of these very items in the 70s. I was naive.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. KR+6, and PLEASE do NOT delete!!

Don't pay any attention to idiotic comments (I'm not mentioning any names, but they are obvious).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
Very interesting

Thanks for posting this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. well you just have to listen to Sarah Palin
neocon delight
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
26. Love to see the freaks pour out into the open -- the ANTI-conspiracy freaks
Or is that "Coincidence Theorists"?

Remember: There was no Watergate, BCCI, Enron, Worldcom, Iran-Contra, or any other historical U.S. conspiracy. That's just your imagination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Love the logic.
Watergate was a conspiracy.

Therefore: mind control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Watergate was a "conspiracy"? Tinfoil
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Wasn't it?
Some two-bit burglars conspired with the Nixon administration to commit burglary, and various other offenses.

The difference between that and "conspiracy theories" is that Watergate actually happened. It's not a theory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Such logic. Woodward & Bernstein never had a theory.
I get the feeling I'm conversing with a sixth grader.

Theories come first, then hypotheses are tested.

Conspiracy "fact" is preceeded by conspiracy "theory".

But we all know that's too complex for sixth grade minds.

That's why Enron has to crash unless there are Eliot Spitzers around to do the "theorizing".

But I'll bet you hate Eliot Spitzer. You're just the type.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. kpete, we go way back, and I love seeing your posts. It is up to you if your posts are over the top
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
34. Do Not Delete. This is too important. Recommended EOM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
35. The Napa Sentinal did an excellent series/expose on MK Ultra/Monarch.
The prison medical center in Vacaville, CA was/is involved.

Here's a link.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/mc1_current_situation.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. PLEASE!! do not delete!! too important for newbie dems! eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Wow, this is known, proven history and people are scoffing at it.
There are government records confirming this, freely available at the National Archives and other federal government libraries and repositories. You can find many books that that document this very subject.

Yet some folks here think it didn't happen.

That's sad, just sad.

People, get thee to a library, a bookstore, online. Look this sort of stuff up, it's real, it happened, it is part of our history. And you know what they say about those who forget their history? Yeah, we're headed that way real quick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Exactly. A "conspiracy" that's public record brings jeers.
:shrug:

Sad, indeed. And it helps explain a lot.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC