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New credit card rules go into effect on 22 FEB 2010. Here is what you NEED to know.

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:39 AM
Original message
New credit card rules go into effect on 22 FEB 2010. Here is what you NEED to know.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 12:31 PM by Statistical
The CC reform bill passed by Congress wasn't as good as some hoped, no limits on APR for example. This lead to a lot of talk about it being "worthless", however it is not all bad. The bill bans some of the worst CC practices. It also makes CC simpler to understand and work the way most consumers will "assume" they do. The reforms go into effect on 22 FEB 2010 however many companies have already at least partially adopted them to avoid having to update systems at last minute.

Here is what you need to know:

Over-limit fees require consumer’s consent.
Wording on this is somewhat vague. It is my understanding that all cards go to “no over-limit ability” (card will be declined if purchase would put it over limit) and if consumer wants the “privilege of going over limit” they will need to specifically request it. Expect banks to market this as a feature (“oops card declined how embarrassing”). However due to the vague wording (might only apply to new accounts, or “acceptance of terms” might be sufficient to be consumer agreement) if you don’t want to ever get an over-limit fee (card declined instead) then you may want to contact CC issuer to verify you are opted-out.

“Extra” payments apply towards higher interest rate balances.
This affects card that have balances under two different rates (example $1000 in cash advance at 24.9% and $5000 in purchases at 17.8%) or promotional balances ($5000 at 0.99% APR for 1 year, all new purchases at 15.9% APR). Currently most credit providers apply payments to lowest interest rate balance thus maximizing the amount of interest paid. Of course Congress had to make it difficult. The whole payment doesn’t apply to highest interest rate. New rules will apply “extra” payments to higher balances first. Minimum payment can still be applied at CC discretion (which likely means lowest apr) however any “extra” payment must go to highest balance. For example: $5000 at 0.99% and $5000 at 15.9% APR. Minimum payment is $120. You make a $500 payment = $380 extra. The CC company will likely apply the $120 to the 0.99% balance however at a minimum the $380 must go to highest APR (15.9% in this case). CC companies CAN apply whole payment to highest balance (my USAA cc terms this) but at a minimum "extra" payment must go to highest APR.

Your due date must now be on the same calendar date every month (example: Jan 12th, Feb 12th, Mar 12th).
This means you can schedule payments each month knowing exactly when your bill needs to be paid. Bills cannot be made to run every 28 or 30 days (which result in varying due dates because of changing number of days in that month). If due date falls on weekends or holidays banks can still require payment on last business day prior to due date.

Interest rate must stay at opening rate for 12 months. No more 0% for 3 months “deals”.
Even if a consumer’s rates are raised after 12 months, the increased rate only applies to new purchases – not the balance accrued in the first 12 months. There are a few exceptions that allow a rate increase such as a 60-day delinquency on the account, a variable rate, the completion of a workout plan or temporary hardship arrangement, or an expiration of a specified period of time. Even variable rates must follow a schedule such as prime not arbitrary changes by CC company. For example if your card is 5% + prime your card rate will only change (up or down) when prime rate changes.

Statements must be mailed at least 21 days ahead of when they are due.
Currently there is no statute requirement and some banks send statements as little as 13 days before due date (even less time when you consider shipping time). This provides you with more time between when you receive your statement and when your bill is due. I would still recommend online bills & billpay so you get earlier notification.

Changes to the terms of your credit card must be given 45 days prior to the change taking affect.
Currently credit card companies are only required to give 15 days notice prior to making certain term changes.

You can “opt-out” of any card within 30 days if you don’t like the change in terms made by your credit card company
If credit card company changes terms (rate increase, limit decrease, annual fee, etc) you opt-out and your card will be closed however bank must provide options for paying off balance under terms in effect prior to opting out. Minimum repayment time is 5 years. For example: you have a 9.99% card with hefty balance on it ($10,000) bank ups interest rate to 24.99% and adds $199 annual fee. You can opt out. You will no longer be able to use card however bank must honor the 9.99% and arrange payment plans (min payment) that will result in repayment in 5 years (or your current min payment if more). Bank has the option of using a min payment amount (say 3% of balance) that decreases as balance decreases or amortize the amount (equal payments over 5 years). Amortized results in lower payments on balance but the payment doesn't decrease like min payment method. Wording of bill if vague on if CC will be required to provide both options.

Bans “universal defaults”.
Other accounts can’t be used as the basis for declaring account “delinquent”. Missing payment on another account, utility, medical bill etc cannot put your account into default. Each account is to be treated separately. As long as you meet terms of your credit card agreement that account can't be put into default. Obviously missing payments on other accounts will affect the account where payments are missed however there is no longer a "roll over" effect.

The original APR must be restored after 6 consecutive on time payments after APR is increased due to delinquency.
Under new statutes the interest rate can be increased if you are delinquent on account for 60 days however after 6 consecutive on time payments account must be restored to original APR. “on time payments” requires that you meet all terms of card account (due date, min payment, not going over limit, etc).

Want the original source? Here is the bill's text:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-627


Disclaimer:
All of this is based on my own reading of publicly available information (including bill text). It is correct to the best of my knowledge however there is no guarantee expressed or implied on the accuracy of the information. I am human and can and do make mistake. Always double (or triple) check information before you make a significant financial decision based on it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommend. I'd like to see Debt Consolidation much more highly regulated.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks. All good to know. nt
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow - - Nice Summary

Thanks for all of the hard work.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. Your credit card company should have mailed you a modified customer agreement
That incorporated these changes.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good point.
However some people's eyes glaze over when reading the tiny print of legalese.

They also make it difficult by not pointing out changes. My USAA card agreement is 12 pages of tiny print and 99% is exactly the same. Kinda hard to find the changes.

In any dispute the CC customer agreement obviously supersede my summary so people *should* look them over.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. yes, this is a very valuable post... bookmarking!
credit cards are still a rip-off, but at least this takes some of the sneaky shit out of having one.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. I use prepaid only. That's not going to change.
Had enough of those crooks.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Sadly I have found the CC to be less crooked than the banks (although that is not saying much).
Use CC for every daily purchase I can.

Never need to worry about overdraft fees, banks playing games with putting charges in "worst order" for me, them delaying my paycheck just long enough to rack up $100 in fees, $39 overdraft fee for going -$1.28, etc.

Put everything on the card.
Make a single payment each month paying it in full.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. If you have the self-discipline to do that, go for it. :-)
I've just changed entirely how I approach my finances, and feel that the prepaid works for all purposes for which I need it.

Additionally, I found that when I purchased items at retailers which took credit cards, prices were often higher, padded to accommodate the charges which the credit card companies assess retailers who accept the card as payment.

But if it works for you, I'm glad. :)
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Exactly to each his(or her) own.
Some people like prepaids, some people like debit cards, some people like credit cards.

I just have found the banks to play too many games with debit cards.
Also I had a gas station place a $100 hold when I filled up on my debit card and it took 8 days before the hold lifted. Even worse my card didn't swipe first time so I swiped it twice and got 2x $100 hold. That was fun being "broke" because someone put a hold on your card.

Still as long as people find a system that works for them and minimizes the fees paid to bank well that is good in my book.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
64. I've gotta ask
Was that the bank's fault (for the $100 hold) or the fault of the place where you bought the gas? Has this $100 hold thing ever happened when you bought gas (or anything else) anywhere else?

I suspect you might be blaming the wrong party for the wrong that was done to you. If I'm right, I sure know where I wouldn't be buying gas!
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
91. The hold varies.
When you swipe a card to buy gas... the gas station doesn't know how much you are going to buy so they put a hold.

Some simply put a hold for $1.00 however if they do that someone could use a debit card (and no overdraft protection) and $1.00 in the bank and buy $50 in gas and then they can only collect $1 on the $50 in gas they let go.

So the amount of the hold varies. Most of the time hold is an "average purchase" like $30 or $40 however once it was $100. It is up to the merchant. I remember the $100 hold happened when there was record gas prices. The merchant blamed the bank. The bank blamed the merchant but neither got my money back until the hold expired a week later.


Personally I have never looked at hold amount since then since with a credit card all it does is reduce my available credit and then goes away in a couple days.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #91
102. Thanks
I figured it was the merchant who did that. I just would stop shopping anywhere that did that kind of thing. Although, your use of a credit card, rather than a debit card is a way around the problem.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
81. I thought that was the whole point of debit cards...
so that businesses don't have to wait for checks to clear.

Putting holds on debit cards is just bullshit.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. I do just about the same thing in order to get coupons or points toward
something I want, such as credit for purchases with LL Bean or discount on gas with my Rewards card. I pay NO interest on either of these two cards since I pay off the balance each month and don't charge what I can't afford. But I do a pretty thorough budget each year and make adjustments for any increases in my expenses. Writing out a detailed budget is an illuminating experience and it is ultimately one of the most liberating actions you can take with regard to your finances. You know exactly where you stand with fixed costs and where you have some discretion. I tell my grown kids to do this, only to call it a "spending plan" instead of a "budget." I think that helps!
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. I agree a couple years ago I wrote out a personal and family budget.
Tracking expenses (especially "small" cash expenses like coffee, or sodas, or impulse buys) is also very important.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Right. Every. damn. thing. It works! But people are afraid of budgeting.
I know I was until I actually did it and it made me a happier person. I try and try to tell people that and they just don't listen...it's frustrating...
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. For me, over 20 years and ZERO problems with local MA community bank BUT...
my daughter had every one of the problems you list and more from Bank of America. Also, many "errors" ALWAYS favored B of A in her long saga, leading me to believe that there are DELIBERATE "mistakes" in charges and statements to further bloat their profits. Statistically speaking, with many of these "mistakes" ALWAYS favoring B of A, it gets to be more and more unlikely that its a random, accidental glitch.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Oh it isn't BofA settle a class action lawsuit for their payment "games".
Banks collected $38 billion in overdraft fees in 2009.

http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/08/americans_pay_38_billion_of_bank_overdraft_fees_a_year.php

That works out to about $300 per account.
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I had similar problem with BoA which is why I dumped them.
I also did not care to be hounded every time I went to the bank. BoA's tellers/rep's/managers constantly HARASSED me to invest in this or that, to get another credit card, a second ATM card :wtf:, and do you have more people to bring here! :wtf: Why would I recommend someone to BoA seeing their predatory policies?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. The problem as I see it is the compensation structure, which in many banks
is designed to incentivize higher revenues with bonuses essentially without regard to how that revenue was realized.
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for this post & can anyone tell me...
why freakin' Bank of America is calling me several times a day for over a week (even before 9am which I thought was illegal)? They never leave a message & I won't answer the call (thank God for caller id) but I canceled my credit card with them at least a year ago. Just venting. Thanks again. :rant:
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. If you aren't already you need to be on Do Not Call list.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 12:44 PM by Statistical
If you aren't sure you can also check/verify.

https://www.donotcall.gov/

Even with the DNC list BofA can call you because they are exempt due to "previous business relationship".

You can request BofA place you on their internal DNC list (which they must honor)
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs5-tmkt.htm#part3

If they call you after that and you want to collect some money from them you can sue them. So it might be worth it to answer once, cut them off, and calmly explain that you wish to be placed on there internal DNC list and that if they continue to call you then you will seek legal damages.
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Thank you kindly:) n/t
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Valuable information.
Thanks for keeping us informed. :kick: & R!
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. kick & rec
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Holy Cow!
All of those sound like significant, sensible, pro-consumer regulations. I have gotten caught on a number of those.

It's nice to see that Congress can actually come up with something worthwhile that isn't completely defanged by special interests.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. Delaying the implementation
was the defanging. They should have made it effective ten days after the President's signature.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. No Organzation Can Do Something
that far-reaching in ten days. The programming alone will take months. It's certainly doable, but things like this take awhile to implement. I don't particuarly care about the delays.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Like they couldn't see this coming
When a new virus or other exploit comes out, Microsoft releases patches in a few days. You're telling me the big banks can't do the same? We're just talking about simple arithmetic here, not trying to outsmart some Eastern-bloc hacker.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. No, That is Not Comparable
These are complex billing and contractual changes for millions of customers. It requires planning, budget, logistics, scheduling, training, and implementation. It has nothing to do with releasing a software patch.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. k/r -- thanks for the great summary, Statistical
:kick:
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you, that summary is helpful!
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. A correction about due dates
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 12:55 PM by Statistical
Regarding due dates:
1) if due dates falls on weekend, holiday, or any day the payment center is closed for any reason then CC issuer can't NOT charge a late fee is received on next business day.

2) Credit issuer must include all payments received as of 5pm as received that day (no 11am cutoffs on due date).

3) Even if payment is not received on time CC provider is prohibited from charging late fee is consumer presents proof payment was mailed 7 days prior to due date.

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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. thank you for doing the hard work!
i don't have credit cards but still found it a worthy read.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. Those are very good changes.
I wonder how Lieberman voted on this...
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Here is vote breakdown (was surprisingly bipartisan) Lieberman actually voted YEA
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Perhaps A Silly Question... There Are Times When I Don't Pay Balance Off , But May
come during the month and add extra payments to lower the balance as much as possible. Is this something I need to be concerned about? My credit card is a Visa Platinum with my Credit Union. Do these "rules" apply to Credit Unions or only with non-Credit Unions.

Forgive me if I'm not following this correctly. I've also heard that if you don't charge at least $2400.00 a year that you will be penalized. I'm not sure that I charge all that much, but suppose I could and pay the payment within days after charging. Any guidance will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The rules apply to all credit cards (technically "open ended consumer accounts").
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 01:42 PM by Statistical
So banks, cu, and even credit card only providers are all subject to the rules.

Credit cards use "average daily balance" so while paying card off when due is best if you can't the earlier and more you pay down the balance the quicker you reduce the average daily balance and thus amount of interest for that month.

Any rule like $2400 to avoid annual fee is not something in the bill and is simply a policy by your CU. The bill still allows annual fees and some cards offer to waive the fee under certain conditions. Citi offered a "deal" like that to my wife($60 annual fee but it can be refunded if she put $2400 in purchases on the card per year). She promptly closed the account.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. So I Need To Check With My Credit Union, Correct? We Don't Have An
annual fee and they haven't sent me a notice that we have to charge "x" amount of dollars. The account is through Verizon, which has a Union. I don't think the Union requires this rule, but I think I had better check.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. If they were to implement a fee they would to notify you in writing (45 days in advance)
You could then cancel the card to avoid the fee (and payoff any balances under old terms).

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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Stats Is Right
Our CU offers a credit card too, but it's just doing the frontend work. The credit card is still provided by one of the big card issuers. (I've been on the board there for more than 20 years, so i know the ins and outs.)

So, the rules apply to the people with the network and to any bank or CU. Now, it's true that NCUA guidelines have discouraged the abuses of many of the cards that were fronted by the big banks. So, the impact on your card might be less than those issued by the abusers. Not a guarantee, but at least a pretty safe bet.
GAC
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
59. Thanks So Much To Both Of You... While I Only Have The One Card...
I like to know what's going on. Our interest rate is still at 8.49% so we've decided to keep it open "just in case," but don't like being forced to charge at least $2400.00 a year when we most likely wouldn't!

Recently we did have to use the card because of an unexpected expense, but RARELY would we ever make a charge of the amount that came up. Had a B.J.'s I got as a "promo" offer that would pay for our membership fee, but never used it and canceled the card after two years! We still have an active Sears card, but we NEVER use it. I forgot we had it, but need to cancel it too, even though they've never sent anything about raising rate or anything else!

I appreciate your information and thank you.

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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
85. Membership Fee?
Sorry i don't get it. A membership fee for the card, or for the CU? Either way, you need to find a different CU. My wife and i, who only use the card as a convenience (balance always paid to zero each month, but use it to buy mail order medicine, my cigars by mail, etc.), have a $25k limit on a 7.9% card with no strings attached.

Maybe our CU offers a better deal or something, but the fee thing seems weird to me.
GAC
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #59
104. never cancel a card
I found out that canceling cards hurts your credit rating. Just quit using it.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks, there are some good changes. n/t
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. I agree, there are other good changes as well. If people take a few minutes
to know some of these rules one has many tools in place now to keep your CC company from screwing you.

They will still try, so you better know the rules.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. Good Post
K&R
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Wow, that's a great deal better than I assumed.
Thanks for posting. :hi:
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. I completely agree!eth
The clause which reinstates original APR after 6 consecutive payments is something I was unaware of and THIS is something I can actually use to lobby friends and family with to support Democrats.

Of course, they need to pass quite a bit more legislation that has tangible effects so that I can help garner more support for Democrats.


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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
77. I particularly like the provisions
About having a static payment date and mailing your bill 21 days in advance. The every changing date was a pain in the ass.
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SandWalker1984 Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
31. Anyone have with a Citibank credit card get notice of $60 annual fee?
I wouldn't seek out a Citi card, but one of my previous bank cards was taken over by Citibank.

I just received a letter from them stating they would now charge an annual fee of $60 to "maintain the quality of our service amid the rising cost of doing business."

Anyone else here get one of these friendly letters?

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. My wife did and she canceled it. We were only keeping it open to improve credit score.
They offered to refund the fee is she made $2400 in purchases per year. How nice of them.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Same here and the Bill is still a piece of crap
They can now bill you for a "non usage" charge also. Don't use the card, they will charge you anyway. There are still no caps, sky is the limit. Like the banks, there are all sorts of new hidden fees being added.

The OP states it is according to their "reading" of the bill. Indeed. There is so much this "reform" bill could have done to help the consumer, but didn't, it is truly a piece of worthless crap.

Unless you can get excited over the addition of concealed weapons in National Parks which was added to the "The Credit Card Reform Bill". What a scam put over on the consumer.

The best form of protection from beng shafted by banks that issue these credit cards, is "Move your money" from the too big to fail banks to local & credit unions..and this movement was started by Arianna Huffington, not the people we worked hard to get elected. At least someone is looking out for us.

Score one for Loan Sharking & Usury....And Concealed Weapons.

Credit Card "Reform"...what a joke.

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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. I didn't get such a notice
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 08:55 PM by customerserviceguy
I have a dormant Citi credit card, and if they pull that shit, I will cancel it, credit rating damage be damned.

Edited to add: Thanks for the tip, I went to Citi, and put an alert on my account, if the balance ever goes above zero, I'll get a message to my cell phone, and I will have time to dump the card without a fee, as long as I do so within the 30 days allowed. They try to pull that $2400 in charges bullshit on me, they can stuff the shards of the cut-up card up their asses.
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susanwy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
69. Yup
rat bastards
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
95. Sure did. Dropped them like it's hot. nt
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
33. K & R, thanks for this. n/t
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. Thanks for taking the time
to break this down, it is well worth the read.

K&R :kick:


:thumbsup:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. k&r with much thanks
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
And bookmarked. My husband and I seldom use credit cards anymore, except when ordering something on line and PayPal isn't offered. Thanks for the info.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thankfully we don't own even one
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thank you for all the information. n/t
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 02:59 PM by truedelphi
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you, Statistical!

This is very valuable information to have.

K&R.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R - suggest debt consolidation, we did a few yrs ago and
now we are moving to our Credit Union bank (getting out of B of A)
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. It is a respectable bill.
I would have liked to see usury rates capped at 20% (pre-Reagan) though.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. I agree.
If you can't make money at 20% then likely you shouldn't be loaning the money to someone anyways.
Personally I would prefer 12% or something like 6% + prime to index it to the "cost" of money.

Maybe next year.
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meeshrox Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thanks for the info...
I received notices (all within the same week) last month from all of my cc companies...they all jacked up the rate to 29.99% in anticipation.

I also read the part in my statement about the opt out: I can opt out but then I cannot ever charge to the account again...is that legal according to the new rules? Not that I use these cards...just trying to pay them off so I can get out from under them...
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Yes that is legal.
You can accept new terms or you can opt-out.

When opting-out:
1) balances are subject to "old" interest rate
2) account will be closed.
3) bank has to accept payments over 5 years for you to pay down any existing balances.

Really the "opt out" option is only useful for someone with huge balance they can't pay off. They have option to pay off balance slowly over time under old (lower) terms.
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berttheturk Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. Thanks for putting this toghether. It is very helpful! n/t
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. That first one is HUGE!! I'd rather be embarassed for 10 minutes at the store...
then to be stuck with a higher APR because I accidently went over.

Of course there is the rare situation where going over is something I could use - like I'm on vacation and my flight is cancelled and I'm stuck finding a new flight. But rarely am I in that situation (or go on a vacation when my cards are near max.)
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
58. Very useful -- thanks! Bookmarked. nt
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pollo poco Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. Thank You! n/t
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
61. K&R
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
62. We all need to know what the fook is going on.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 07:06 PM by ooglymoogly
Credit card co's have been calling me asking me to sign new documents. I have refused, trusting th proven fact that credit card co's have only their own interest be considered. Thanx for the analysis; It will help a lot of folks like me wade through the swamp of propaganda.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
67. Thank you! I don't have any CC's but I've passed this along to everyone I know! nt
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thank you!!!
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
72. Good stuff
K&R
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
74. k & R & B
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
75. Short of re-outlawing usury, this is pretty good
Reading all this reminds me why I pay off my credit cards *every* month. Fortunately, I'm able to now. When I was younger I got into credit card debt, and it's a bad feeling.

At this point, I would start selling stuff if I couldn't afford to pay off my card(s) every month.

The credit card business is just one step above pawn shops and car title loan companies. Predatory lending personified.
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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
76. And none of this will affect ones credit score?
You can't even ask for a quote from a car insurance company without it possibly affecting your credit score.
Hopefully, when all of this takes effect and does so positively, someone with some clout can look into that scam called the credit score.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. "..scam called the credit score"? Ain't THAT the truth!
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
78. Thank you!
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
79. Gee, what a terrible bill.
I wish Congress would stop supporting the evil financial firms.

:sarcasm:

Seriously - it's brilliant!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
80. Does Biden still want them to take my home away?
My family homeless cuz these vampires didn't get to feed forever? Is that a Democrat? What is that, tell me?
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. That is a thief whatever he calls himself .......
I didn't hear what he said. Could you please tell me?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
83. On Mar. 15, 2010 all 3 of my credit cards will be PAID OFF
And I'm canceling the two that have an annual fee attached to them.

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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
86. Thanks. nt
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
87. Doesn't it ban changing the rate on existing balances, too?
I thought I read somewhere where they have to apply whatever rate was in effect at the time of purchase, and they couldn't just raise the rate on your entire balance whenever they wanted. No?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
88. Thank you for the info.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
89. Thanks!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
90. I paid my balance off two weeks ago, and will never carry one again
:nuke:
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
92. "Your welcome" to all the thank-you and one final shameless kick in case anyone missed it. n/t
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
93. This post has created an odd, pleasant feeling
Something I've never felt before...
The Congress did something that will benefit our family rather than Wall Street.

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. Its strange I know. I wish I could say expect more where that one came from but...
Magic 8ball says "outlook hazy try again later".
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
94. A lot of CC companies which used to be free are also now charging
a yearly fee. The days of free use of credit cards for those who pay in full are probably going to be over. We used to do this exclusively for the rewards but completely dropped this practice due to the increased fees, sudden lowering of CL's for no reason, etc. One cc is enough for us and just for emergencies, renting cars, etc.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
96. Isn't it true that if you decline over-limit fees, the CC can deny you a card?
I thought that, while you had to agree to the terms, if you didn't accept over-limit "features" the CC company was free to simply cancel your card or deny you a card?

So you're still basically forced to the terms....

Am I wrong on that?
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. I don't believe that is correct but I am no lawyer.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 07:04 PM by Statistical
A lot of this will likely take some time to shake out.

CC companies will try something, an attorney general will sue, FTC will provide updated guidance on meaning of a section of the bill.

You can count of some CC companies trying to sleaze their way through the spirit of the law looking for flaws in the letter of the law.

Maybe your legalese to English translator is better than mine:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:6:./temp/~c111RcBNNa:e1245:

(k) Opt-in Required for Over-the-Limit Transactions if Fees Are Imposed-

`(1) IN GENERAL- In the case of any credit card account under an open end consumer credit plan under which an over-the-limit fee may be imposed by the creditor for any extension of credit in excess of the amount of credit authorized to be extended under such account, no such fee shall be charged, unless the consumer has expressly elected to permit the creditor, with respect to such account, to complete transactions involving the extension of credit under such account in excess of the amount of credit authorized.

`(2) DISCLOSURE BY CREDITOR- No election by a consumer under paragraph (1) shall take effect unless the consumer, before making such election, received a notice from the creditor of any over-the-limit fee in the form and manner, and at the time, determined by the Board. If the consumer makes the election referred to in paragraph (1), the creditor shall provide notice to the consumer of the right to revoke the election, in the form prescribed by the Board, in any periodic statement that includes notice of the imposition of an over-the-limit fee during the period covered by the statement.

`(3) FORM OF ELECTION- A consumer may make or revoke the election referred to in paragraph (1) orally, electronically, or in writing, pursuant to regulations prescribed by the Board. The Board shall prescribe regulations to ensure that the same options are available for both making and revoking such election.

`(4) TIME OF ELECTION- A consumer may make the election referred to in paragraph (1) at any time, and such election shall be effective until the election is revoked in the manner prescribed under paragraph (3).

`(5) REGULATIONS- The Board shall prescribe regulations--

`(A) governing disclosures under this subsection; and

`(B) that prevent unfair or deceptive acts or practices in connection with the manipulation of credit limits designed to increase over-the-limit fees or other penalty fees.

`(6) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a creditor from completing an over-the-limit transaction, provided that a consumer who has not made a valid election under paragraph (1) is not charged an over-the-limit fee for such transaction.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. There's nothing there that prevents CC from rejecting your app if you don't choose overlimit
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 07:12 PM by Political Heretic
coverage.

Which means, that's what CC companies will do.

Which means, it doesn't really make much difference for consumers who feel they need a credit card. The same basic terms will be applicable.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. However consumers can opt-out at any time.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 07:27 PM by Statistical
So even in CC companies tried to play those games what is to prevent consumer from signing up and then opting out as soon as they get the card?

Looks like some companies to avoid the complexity of handling account differently depending on if consumer is "in" or "out" on overdraft fees are simply eliminating the fees.

http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/174_152/law_hits_home_as_cards_opt_out_of_overlimit_fees-1000795-1.html

All AMEX and Discover cards have already dropped all overlimit fees.

Looks like AMEX and Discover may allow you to go overlimit but wont charge a fee (which is what the law allows).
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. I think a lot of people don't feel like credit cards are optional
Even though it should be that way.

The reason I haven't made an OP talking about all the possible risks or loopholes in the legislation is that is simply unclear to me exactly how it will all shake out.

Hopefully the law will facilitate a change in the basic culture around credit, but I remain cautiously skeptical. Six months from now will be an excellent time to evaluate the effectiveness of the law changes.

Hopefully, it does some good. I certainly don't want it to be a bust.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
103. Despite this, I would still recommend that you pay off your balance and cut up the cards
Go to a cash/check/debit card basis. The overall impact of this move on your life is positive. You don't have another bill to pay, you're not allowing a corporation to control part of your life, your budget doesn't have unexpected bumps and you personally screw these credit card bloodsuckers out of a livelihood.

I've lived all my life without a CC and nothing but good has followed.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. A rare Adam Smith quote:
"What can be added to the happiness of a man who is in health, out of debt, and has a clear conscience? "
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
106. Hola.
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