Papua New Guinea orders alcohol ban

[ensho]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/02/20102166368742195.html


-snip video-


Papua New Guinea has ordered a ban on alcohol in its Southern Highlands province, in an effort to curb deadly feuding between rival clans.

Local people have been told they have until May 11 to drink or sell their alcohol.

Police say liquor contributes to most of the law and order problems in the region.

Al Jazeera's Laura Kyle reports from the town of Tari.
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[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Prohibitions and Bans never work.

Especially for things that can be made at home or purchased elsewhere.

[Fumesucker]

2. You might try conveying that idea to our own government...

They don't seem to have gotten the message yet, it's only been seventy years.. ;)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Preachin to the choir.

firearms bans - fail.
Prohibition - fail.
War on Drugs - fail.

prohibition = fail because banning the item is not the solution.

[sharesunited]

4. UK and Australia working hard to prove you wrong about guns and ammo.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. Effort expended and results returned are very different.

Tell me, has violent crime subsided in those countries since those government have disarmed their people?
What does it matter if there are less gun incidents and more overall violent crime incidents?
Why do you value gun deaths/murders more significantly than other types of deaths/murders? Dead is dead.

[sharesunited]

9. Rampage stabbings are easier to escape. You can't outrun a bullet.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

11. So you would settle for more assaults and higher crime-rate overall...

so long as the victim gets a chance to run for it?
How sporting of you. :eyes:

I'm not a very quick runner. I'll choose option B.
When a stabber on a rampage enters my vicinity... I'll shoot him until he stops trying to stab me.

[sharesunited]

14. You're overlooking the possibility that he or she is a shooter.

That's always the flaw in the I Need My Guns lens filter.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. If he or she is a shooter... then we are on equal grounds (in terms of force).

No matter how youdice it, I am better able to defend myself with a concealed firearm.
Excercising situatinoal awareness and good judgement - I should stand a pretty good chance if cornered and forced to defend myself.

[sharesunited]

18. You are shot from behind. Once again, you are assuming some kind of romantic scenario.

Movies are entertaining, but they can fool you into thinking real life unfolds that way.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. It does not matter if they "shoot me from behind".

Like we've been saying (all the time) to you. A firearm guarantees no safety... it's another option should we need it.
Regardless of whether one is armed or not, if shot in the back or ambushed they stood no chance anyhow.
Where having a concealed gun might help is anytime the assault can be reacted to.
There are many stories of people with CCWs and firearms defending themselves in the gungeon...
Surely this is evidence that not all attacks happen ambush style like you are describing.
CCW = another option to defend yourself. I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and be faced with no options.

The Real World:
4 cops not paying attention to their surroundings (working on laptops) were ambushed by an attacker and killed.
They stood no chance. This real life incident is NOT evidence that cops' carrying of firearms is useless - agree?
Are you stating the possible ambush scenario involving a citizen with a CCW is evidence that their carrying firearms is useless?

PS: Movies are movies. Some of the worst realism in hollywood is on the topic of guns. Of course life is not like that.
My biggest peeve is the silencers that sound like some kind of laser gun or something. That and infinite capacity magazines.

[sharesunited]

22. You're right that the Seattle shooter was not supposed to have any gun whatsoever.

But obviously the vast abundance of guns made it possible for him to get one.

Turn that abundance around, into scarcity.

I would not lay any blame on those officers. I mean, ambushed was ambushed. Seems like completely unprovoked surprise involving a criminal who was just set off by seeing uniforms and badges.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

24. Intellectually dishonest.

His desire for guns made it possible to acquire one. When the laws/punishments aren't enough to persuade someone frmo committing crime... little stands in thier way until they are caught. Even if he was in Japan, the UK, or Austrailia... he could of got a handgun.

Turning guns into scarcity... pipe dream. There too many. :P
You would need to repeal at least 2 if not 3 ammendments in the constitution.

[sharesunited]

25. Yes, there ARE too many. Let's savor this moment of agreement.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Yes, violent crime has dropped in England and Wales since the gun ban

(handgun ban was in 1997)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/12/do_politicians_affect_the_murd.html

And the England and Wales murder rate is now the lowest in 20 years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/21/murders-drop-home-office-figures

Whether the gun ban was responsible for the drops is another matter. But there aren't "more overall violent crime incidents", and there are less murders.

[beevul]

19. Theyre also working hard at being model surveilance/monitoring states.

Think its worth it?

[depakid]

13. Applying libertarian standards to problems in nations one knows nothing about..

is pretty arrogant, don't you think?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Says the Aussie... n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

27. What Depakid said was spot on....

And while in the years leading up to the gun laws being introduced here there'd been far too many massacres and shootings, since the laws came in there's been no more Port Arthur, Strathfield or Hoddle Street massacres. Most everyone seems to think that's a really good thing and my opinion is if any American gun-touting twits have a problem with it, they can mind their own business and concentrate on trying to destroy their own society instead of mine...

[Taitertots]

6. Why don't you go buy some ludes or mescaline?

They don't work 100% but who ever expected that. If supported they can be very effective.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. Ludes and mescaline are an exception.

Methaqualone are laboratory synthesized drugs. If you restrict the drug and pull the drug precursors from circulation it cannot be made. One would have to synthesize precursors and then synthesizing the drug is too roundabout. It's a business... too much effort makes it too expensive. So yes, Ludes were actually effectively banned and eliminated but only because people could no longer practically make it at home. Bet your ass if lude's precursors could be found @ home depot & Walgreens it would still be around.

"Meth" shares this with ludes. If the government pulled pseudoephedrine (common cold medication) off the shelfs US made meth would all but dissappear as well. People would have to synthesize thier own ephedrine derivatives to then synthesize the amphetamines - too much effort. This is seen in several european nations where simple cold medication is limited and sold only at pharmacies. Unfortunately, there's too much money in the common cold medication for uor corporate congress to restrict it.

Mescaline is a naturally occurring substance found in plants. While powerful, one builds tolerence quickly. This is one reason LSD has all but replaced mescaline. Even a SMALL amount restricted LSD precursors can produce hundreds of thousands of doses. Mescaline wasn't snuffed out by bans, it was replaced by another banned drug.

Which all brings me back to my qualifying statement in my OP...
If it can be made at home or a neighboring nation America can't eliminate it.

[Taitertots]

26. That means prohibitions can work

Increased restrictions on meth precursor chemicals would dramatically decrease meth use.

Prohibitions work when they make drug production not worth doing. It requires restriction of precursor chemicals for meth and ludes. The restrictions on precursor chemicals in other drugs (MDMA and LSD) have had the same effects, albeit not as dramatic.


Prohibition of Cocaine and Heroin needs a different approach. We can't just claim it is not possible and give up without trying. We need to target the international groups orchestrating the distribution. Offer farmers heroin level per acre returns for regular crops.

[Desertrose]

5. My uncle's plane went down over Papua New Guinea in '44.

Never found. Rough rough place........

[KittyWampus]

10. In anthropology we learned about drunken comportment. Native peoples, when first introduced to

alcohol would model their drunker behavior on those who introduced the spirits.

Social and Cultural Aspects of Drinking:

http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking_contents.html

[lunatica]

12. Hello Prohibition bootlegging...

Hell, it might help the local economy. Or everyone will go blind

[upi402]

21. It'll lower use a bit, not eliminate it

Troubled from booze will likely be lowered. But it hasn't ever eliminated alcohol use or abuse. This stuff is even tried in SE Asia party towns. Smokes too.

[JVS]

23. Oh great, so now they'll have feuding clans making moonshine

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Did you watch the video? They're too busy raping women and attacking kids to make moonshine...

The violence that was mentioned in the OP includes many instances of women being raped and abused. What happened to the woman in the video was appalling and I don't care if it takes a ban on alcohol or anything else to get things changed so women like her can live a violence-free life.

btw, has anyone in this thread who's voicing any opposition to an alcohol ban ever been to PNG and seen what things are like there? Also, it's pretty clear from the video that a bunch of steps needs to be taken to stop the violence, one of which is the ban on alcohol. Others include education, support, and law enforcement to be improved.

[Withywindle]

28. How about a fucking ban on VIOLENT CRIME?!

Commit assault while sober - go to jail.

Commit assault while drunk - go to jail.

Why would anyone think there is a meaningful difference? There totally isn't. The important thing to to enforce the law, either way.

[SoCalDem]

30. won;t work.. people will make their own or set up a black market.. n/t