Just heard a replay of Bayh saying that the liberal minority of the Democratic Party was seeking

[Atticus]

to "impose its will on the American people".

SH-H-H-H! Don't dare mention the *%#@&$^ right-wing CRAZIES who HAVE imposed their will on the American people for the eight years of the last administration!

THIS is not a "moderate" politician. This is political whore with his finger in the wind. We lose NOTHING if we lose this seat. At least we will be spared the embarrassment of trying to ignore that "one of ours" is "one of them".

[marmar]

1. Don't let the doorknob hit ya, Senator....

Tired corporate sellout.

[aquart]

3. There it is. I'M GLAD HE'S GONE!

Is he gone yet? Is he doing a Sarah Palin? Do we have to wait? I'll wave my hankie and fake shedding a tear. Is he gone yet?

[icnorth]

5. To tell the God's honest truth senator...

my sentiments are a tad harsher...

[progressoid]

66. ...

Agreed :thumbsup:

[rateyes]

67. Better yet, DO let the doorknob hit you,

fucking asshole. Buh Bayh, POS.

[polichick]

2. Disturbing to know that Obama considered the veep choice a toss-up...

...between Bayh and Biden (according to Plouffe's book).

[sandnsea]

7. So did Hillary

Which is probably the reason Bayh was even considered to begin with.

[polichick]

9. Yep - two peas in a centrist pod. nt

[EFerrari]

54. I wonder if that's a bit of PR on Plouffe's part.

Biden is about the most liberal choice Obama made.

[DefenseLawyer]

4. You are right, unless we lose our majority.

Then we lose plenty. If the Republicans control the committees again it is all over. I'm not saying our majority hasn't squandered it's opportunity thus far, but please. A Republican controlled Senate will be a disaster greater than any Blue Dog could conjure up.

[Atticus]

13. While I appreciate your point, I mostly disagree.

We had a majority and it got us----what? Yes, I know some things were accomplished and, yes, I know that a Republican Senate would be terrible, BUT----

I am not alone in saying "to hell with this"! We are tired of kissing Blue Dog ass and then being treated like fire hydrants!

[DefenseLawyer]

15. You seem to assume that the alternative is a progressive majority

I'm all for it, I just don't see it. In the real world the only result of "to hell with this" is a Republican majority. I'd rather have leadership that could keep these jerks in line (which is very possible if the leadership has the will to do it) than to "kick them all out" and lose our majority. Believe me, I share your frustration, but a liberal isn't going to be among the choices in Indiana.

[Atticus]

17. That is not what I assume. But, I'm coming around to the "long view" of things.

Eventually, people get the quality of government they deserve.

The voters of this country elected Reagan and W TWICE! While its true they more recently elected Obama, they also elected Lieberman and Baucus and Bachman and Schmidt and McConnell and Boehner.

Maybe there's a price demanded for such wrong-headedness.

You have a valid point and I appreciate your response. I'm just tired of being told that we liberals just need to "keep our powder----yada, yada, yada".

[Atticus]

41. Nichols also shares my frustration, but sees things differently. See link:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/530319/bye_bayh

[peacebird]

14. Our "majority" has been completely freaking useless. In fact - worse than useless

Our "majority" in both houses has been all over the news - as if we had the power to do anything. HA. That's rich. It would be better for the dems NOT to have control of all, because between LIEberman & Rahms blue asshats we truly do NOT have a majority. Yet the media keeps saying "the democratic majority"...... I am not convinced that repub control of the Senate would be any worse than what we have now.

[DefenseLawyer]

16. That's crazy talk.

Yes the majority has failed miserably on some high profile issues (mostly just healthcare actually) but the every day stuff is still getting done. A Republic Senate passes NOTHING. Holds up every nomination for EVERYTHING, every bill, everything. If you're not convinced a Republican controlled Senate would be worse you are just being silly.

[peacebird]

18. health care reform was bastardized by the dems trying for Snowes buy in.

Let's not even talk about the whole saving banks from their own greed by declaring they are "Too big to fail" and then FAILING to change the rules to PREVENT corps from becoming too big to fail. Or forcing them to break into smaller pieces so their greed could not threaten the economy of our country.

Silly is defending Obama and the Dems in power.

[DefenseLawyer]

20. Sounds like you are looking for another party

Best of luck.

[peacebird]

21. I am a progressive hoping that Dems will remember they are the party for the PEOPLE

NOT the party of the Corporate interests (DLC).

Do I believe that we the people can regain the soul of the Democratic party, no. I think the DLC is too happy with corporate money to let a little thing like the best interests of the people drive the agenda.

I fought hard for Obama, and I am very disappointed so far. Not all his fault, but the DLC does NOT have my vote.

[bvar22]

25. I'm a member of THIS "Democratic Party".

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.--FDR

If THESE values are are no longer upheld by today's"Democratic Party",
then I will be doing as the previous poster suggested.

[Tesha]

28. Hear, hear! (NT)

[femrap]

57. I bet Bayh would consider these

'quaint.'

[Scruffy1]

58. I think the train is leaving soon

I love your post and think its sad that FDR's economic rights of 1944 are not even close to being recognized today. I think the Evan Bayhs of this world should go to hell. With his wifes five board memberships paying him enough to not care he's just looking after number 1 and likes his ego fed with office. Ig the democratic party wishes to survive it must finally stand on some core principles. When you get beaten by John Boehner and Mitch McConnell you suck big time.

[FBaggins]

70. Sonya Sotomayor

And likely two others before this Fall.

That's far from "useless"

[Tesha]

27. Why? What will be different? What initiatives that we've utterly failed to pass now will...

...obtain any different fate in a Republican-controlled Senate?

Tesha

[rhett o rick]

36. The Democrats have to learn to fight, whether in the majority or minority. Not willing to

give up one single ounce of principle to have a majority.

[Contrary1]

6. On the local Indy news tonight, it was reported

That Bayh waited this late on purpose, so the Dems would not have a gaggle of no-names up for nomination, splitting the votes.

At least that explanation makes a bit of sense.

[Sebastian Doyle]

12. Ah, so the old Rahm Emanuel strategery again?

"No you don't get to pick your own Senate candidate. The DLC will give you a corporate funded whore and you fucking retards will like it" :grr:

[undeterred]

8. I would like to see their will imposed on me and the rest of the American people,

most of whom will be delighted by it.

[BrklynLiberal]

49. Ditto.... +1000

[yourout]

10. Lets see Dems get elected without the "Liberal Minority"

[bvar22]

11. Through the Looking Glass.

It is the Moderate/Centrists "Democrats" working WITH their ideological allies, The Republicans, who ARE imposing THEIR will on America.

Less than 35% of ALL Americans support Mandates without a Public Option,
and yet, THIS is what the "Centrist" Democratic Senators will FORCE upon America.

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

Who could have predicted that letting Joe Lieberman write the Health Care "Reform" Bill would have pissed off so many Democrats? :shrug:

[DefenseLawyer]

19. The thing about Evan Bayh is, I don't think he has an ideological bone in his body

His father was a helluva liberal in a different era. I think Evan say his father lose to an empty suit like Danforth Quayle and decided that empty suit was the way to go. His positions and allegiances were political not ideological. Safe as safe could be.

[peacebird]

22. kind of like Obama, unfortunately....

[DefenseLawyer]

23. Don't you have a Green Party potluck to go to tonight?

You can bash the President with the rest of the true believers.

[peacebird]

24. I have been a devout supporter and activist for the Dems since 1970

I have worked the polls for years, I have walked and posted literature and talked to voters, I have worked phone banks, I have donated time and the max $$$ I can in elections to Dems. I do NOT have to take shit from a smartass bullshitter like YOU.

How many elections have YOU worked for Dems? How many hours have YOU clocked working for Dems?

You and your smarmy sarcastic comments are likely to move more progressives like me AWAY from the party. Regardless of what Rahm believes - Dems NEED progressives and unions ON THE GROUND.

Abuse us at your peril. At some point we WILL look to another party.

F YOU .

[bvar22]

29. "Centrists" have no issues.

There is no line they will not cross.
There is NO issue for which they will STAND.

For a "Centrist/Moderate", everything is For Sale.

"Centrism"....because it is so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING,
and get to insult those who do!!!
:party:

It is useless to attempt to explain Values, Integrity, Issue Advocacy, and Passion to a "Centrist/Moderate".
They can't understand.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[peacebird]

31. thank you - I find it hard to understand/believe people are that unprincipled....

[Atticus]

32. “There’s nothing in the middle of the road except

yellow stripes and dead armadillos" Jim Hightower

Southern Illinois version: substitute "possums" for "armadillos".

[bvar22]

35. ! LOL. I just happen to have one handy!

"The only thing in the Middle of the Road
are Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos."--Jim Hightower

[BrklynLiberal]

50. John Hightower... a great man who is not quoted often enough!!!

:thumbsup:

[rhett o rick]

38. There are two types of centrists. One is a republican in Demo clothing.

The second has the same values as the left but is too afraid to be associated with the "radicals", so they call themselves centrists.

[DonCoquixote]

51. Wrong

Evan Bayh was too far to the right for me, but frankly, some people see people like Nader and Kucinich spout off pretty ideas, knowing they will never be called upon to actually act on them, to put them in practice. They also think that the folks who helped get Bush elected by demonizing both Gore and Kerry did not actually help people, nor did they help the left. Of course, we get branded sellouts by folks like you.

[bvar22]

59. Yeah. Spouting off pretty ideas, like these:

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."---FDR

Too bad the "New" Democratic Party has moved beyond these "pretty ideas".
I STILL stand for these "pretty ideas".
These WERE the "pretty ideas" of the Democratic Party I joined 42 years ago.
If the Democratic Party has moved beyond thes "pretty ideas",
then they have left ME behind.
I will continue to STAND with those who still embrace these "pretty ideas".


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[DonCoquixote]

61. Changing your focus

It is not the aims I object to, but the one thing neither Kucinich nor Nader can do, the HOW! All your good intentions do not feed a child, or heal the economy, whereas for all his faults, Clinton did! If Dennis or Ralph were in office, we would not be one inch closer, and you know it. It is one thing to fight for ideas, but another to do so knowing that you never have to do the hard work of actually getting results.

[bvar22]

63. Clinton sold the Working Class into Corporate slavery.

I haven't changed MY political goals.
The "NEW" Centrist Democratic Party has changed THEIRS.
If nobody in the Democratic Party is fighting for those quaint, old Working Class Values, then the Democratic Party is no longer fighting for those Quaint, Old Working Class Values.

You should be on your knees thanking Dennis Kucinich, and praying he keeps his seat, AND his voice.
He is one of the FEW "Democrats" still carrying the banner that keeps me and many like me IN the Democratic Party.
Forcing another vacuum on The Left WILL create another Nader, and a replay of 2000.
Then we will all get to hear the Centrist "Party over Policy" whiners wail and moan about how it is ALL somebody else's fault.
Vacuums WILL be filled.
It is a law of Physics.


So many of the "Centrists" are working so hard to to marginalize one of the few remaining voices that have the integrity to tell the truth.
If not for DK, who would be telling these truths:

*that Single Payer Universal HealthCare is not only possible, but cheaper.

*that "For Profit" HealthCare is obscene

*that Mandatory Health Insurance is NOT REALLY Universal HealthCare

*that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs.

*that the USA SHOULD give the Imperial Palace (Green Zone) back to the Iraqis, close the permanent bases, expel all Corporate Consultants, withdraw ALL US Troops, and begin paying reparations NOW.

*that redeploying some troops at some future date is a PRO-WAR position.

*that the "Oil Law Benchmark" supported by the Democratic Party is a War Crime

*That we can have election accountability with "Paper Ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct".

*that we CAN cut $Billions$ from the Defense Budget

*that the RICHEST Corporations in history do NOT need $Billions$ in welfare subsidies

*that NAFTA (Free Trade) has not been a good thing for Americans who have to work for a living

*that Impeachment is not optional, our reps are SWORN to protect The Constitution

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in banning Land Mines

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in the International Criminal Court.

Your attempts to marginalize Dennis Kucinich is an attempt to silence MY voice in the Democratic Party.
I won't go quietly.

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

”Unlike the other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich

[DonCoquixote]

71. Silence your voice

Far from it, because if i really wanted to silence you, I would ignore you, because the main energy you get is arguing with people.

What angers me is that while Dennis K does a service, he preaches to trained choirs, NOT the Independent voters whose votes we need to win, people, who, sadly are culturally trained to lean right. No, it is not enough for Dennis to speak the truth to trained choirs, but to actually convince people that they are right, and why. I do pray Dennis keeps his seat, but i pray harder for Sherrod Brown, a senator who is as liberal as Dennis, and who has to deal with the Taft political machine, unless Dennis who only was to worry about Cleveland.

[DefenseLawyer]

33. I'm not abusing you.

I don't think the party is perfect. Far from it. However, I do believe that probably for the remainder of my lifetime the only alternative to my party is their party- not your imaginary party. When you take shots at Evan Bayh, I say those are well deserved and I'm willing to overlook the fact the the cold hard result of your idealism is to elect republicans. However, when you start lumping in the President and speak nothing but derision about "the Dems" don't try to tell me what a good Democrat you are. Hell, in this very thread you made the outrageous statement that you wouldn't mind having a republican majority in the Senate since "the Dems" are just as bad as republicans. Spare me. You are not a Democrat. You are an idealist who will support the party when it does exactly what you want and shit on it when it doesn't, even to the point of wishing for a Republican majority. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just be honest about it. We have a two party system whether you accept it or not. It's either us or them. I choose to work from within. You can stand outside and throw rocks.

[peacebird]

37. How many years have you worked for the Dems? How much time and effort have you given?

Just curious.
I told you my years, tell me yours.

It is NOT us or them. It is also Dems deciding between DLC (Corporate first) and DNC (people first).

So while you find it easy to smear me as not a Dem, I find it easy to see YOU as a DLC corporatist slamming me.

So to quote you - "Spare me"

Our "two party system" is more complicated than "2 parties" - it includes the battle for the SOUL of the Democratic party - are we for the corporations (DLC) or for the People?

[rhett o rick]

40. How do you differ from the left? What issues do you disagree with the left? nt

[peacebird]

44. ? I am a leftie Rhett, a progressive. What I am complaining about it is the conservadems

and the fact that there are some here on DU that routinely slam or smear anyone who dares to complain about the inaction of the Dems in congress or the Obama administration.

I was just told I must have "a potluck for the greens" I should be attending because I feel like Rahm's DLC corporatist leanings have steered the Dem party way too far to the right - they have passed "center" a ways back.

I want our party to remember that it is the party of the people. Apparently to some here that means I am not a loyal Democrat. So amusingly enough the person who tells me that then pulls on his flag and declares HE is going to work from within the party, while he assumes *I* am doing nothing but "standing outside throwing rocks".

What a freaking imbecile.

[rhett o rick]

46. Sorry, I realized my mistake after i posted. I accept imbecile, freaking might be a little

strong. I will be more careful jumping into an argument already started.

[peacebird]

72. :-)

of course - to be clear - the freaking imbecile comment was definitely NOT directed at you...

:-)

[rhett o rick]

74. I didnt think it was, but would understand. nt

[peacebird]

26. SO? Tell us YOUR history supporting Dem candidates? How many years have YOU volunteered your time?

[Atticus]

30. You seem like someone who doesn't need to resort to snarky, divisive bullshit like that.

Why do you?

[DefenseLawyer]

34. And lumping in the President with Evan Bayh isn't divisive?

Saying the President stands for nothing simply because we don't live in Utopia quite yet? That's not divisive? I'm sorry, that Ralph Nader "they're all the same" bullshit doesn't fly with me.

[bvar22]

42. Obama has lumped himself in with Evan Bayh.

”I am a New Democrat!”---Barack Obama
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254931&kaid=85&subid=900184


The DLC New Team
Republican Lite Only

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)


"I did not campaign on a Public Option."

If Obama spent 1/10th the time with the Progressive Caucus that he spends romancing Republicans and dancing to their tunes, those of us on the Left wouldn't feel so betrayed.

Who could have predicted that letting Joe Lieberman and Olympia Snow write the Health Care "Reform" Bill would have pissed off so many Democrats? :shrug:

[Atticus]

43. Lumping the President with Bayh was silly---and everyone you might hope to influence

with reasoned discussion, of which you are demonstrably capable, instantly knew that. The comment would have "died on the vine" had it been ignored.

Instead, it was amplified and repeated, in substance, four more times.

[defendandprotect]

39. Did he connect that belief in any way to his departure???

[madokie]

45. He is not one of us thats for sure

And the press is not free and honest either.

[robinlynne]

47. ahh. we are the people.

[BrklynLiberal]

48. What are the odds he will "re-emerge" as a repuke somehwere on some ticket??

[FBaggins]

69. Zero

There's a massive world of difference between "not progressive enough for DU's preferences" and "Republican"...

...though you won't see it shouted as loudly.

[Uncle Joe]

52. Bye Bayh.

:hi:

[lsewpershad]

53. Good riddance troll

[Bluebear]

65. +1

[Individualist]

55. The DLC asshole had no complaints when the republican majority was running roughshod

over Democrats.

[femrap]

56. He'll return as a

Repugnant after making shitloads of $$$ as a Lobbyist or Hedge Fund turd.

[Vinca]

60. Wow - we're such evil demons what with wanting health care for all,

jobs brought back to our shores, banking regulations and a life raft sent out to rescue the middle class.

[Marr]

62. The party has a small liberal contingent, but the country has a much larger one.

So I'd say it's more like 'the corporate wing of the Democratic Party is seeking to impose it's will on the American people'.

[ddeclue]

64. fuck Senator Bye!

[jgraz]

68. I'm surprised he didn't call it the "Democrat" Party

Fuck him and the Repuke horse he rode in on.

[upi402]

73. Agreed, best thing that can happen

Get actual Republicans to kick Democrat ass instead of false-Democrats. We need to get tough. Get Rethugs OUT of the party, whichever letter follows their name. And fight hard, ceaselessly, and never give up fighting corporatism.

That or grab ankles...

[yurbud]

75. he doesn't have his finger in the wind, he has his snout in the corporate ass