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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:16 PM
Original message
The next great depression is but one dollar away...
Edited on Fri Apr-27-07 02:37 PM by Javaman
The current popular thought is that most Americans don't save, borrow off there mortgages and are just one paycheck away from being homeless, while all that might be true, however there is something more worrisome out there that will eclipses those above.

We are being tested. No, not by God or some sort of supreme being per say, but by our gov't and the oil companies.

What is the test you ask? How far they can push us before we break.

The first test came right after Katrina, when oil prices spiked. Which in turn pushed the price up at the pump. That national average at that time was something on the order of $3.75 a gallon for regular and areas of the west cost were paying over $4.00 a gallon.

But what we also found out, not all that long later on, was that Exxon had recorded the largest profits ever recorded in one quarter in the history of the world.

How can they be making so much? we felt we had been had. The simple concept of supply and demand had been a sham. It appeared as if they were price gouging us. Want to know why?

Yes, peak oil exists and as much as Tillerman CEO of Exxon would like us to believe that he doesn't believe in it, he very much does. If he admits he does, the Exxon's stock plummets. And after a time, he's out of his chintzy job. Why admit something when you don't have to? Let marketing research do the dirty work for you.

So instead we as a nation are treated to a test.

With the conclusion of the last test, (Katrina) several things were discovered about our society.

1) as prices got higher, people drove less (no duh)

2) the sales of SUV's dropped

3) the sales of fuel efficient cars and hybrids went up.

but on the other hand, as prices went down;

1) people drove more

2) SUV sales went up

3) fuel efficient cars and hybrid sales went down.

Prior to Katrina, gas was at an average of, I believe, $1.50 nationwide. After-wards and after the spike then drop in gas prices, the average price was $2.20 nationwide.

People became accustomed to the new norm. 2+ dollars for a gallon of gas.

This whole reaction by the American population is what I like to call, "Whew, that was a close one", why? Because the belief that as high as the prices were when they finally settled, they were certainly lower than when they had spiked.

This is the equivalent of saying, "wow, although the bullet hit me, it only blew off my foot". Thanking ones lucky stars to still be alive.

The next time, this time, we might not be so lucky.

Like I said earlier, the oil companies and the gov't are completely aware of peak oil and are now conducting and elaborate experiment.

At what point does the price of oil/gas get so high that it becomes detrimental upon society.

We are currently riding a national average of $3.30 at the pump. Some areas are already nearing or above $4.00.

When the national average hits $4.00+, things become interesting.

The people who live out in the exurbs, both the middle class and the lower middle class will start experiencing hard choices that need to be made.

The poor of our society already lacking many skills to move up the food change will be hit first and the hardest. Unable to live near their jobs, and because of the overwhelming poor mass transit system in the U.S., they must drive to work. At some point as the price of gas goes up, it will be come a trip of diminishing returns.

On top of that, the price of food will go up, as will as clothing.

The next that will be hit will be the middle class. Most of which is occupied by people who could just about afford to buy a home, but one located way out in the middle of nowhere in the exurbs, will also have few choices in the way of getting to work and will have to tighten the belt to stretch what gas they can buy to make the daily commute.

And as always, the upper middle class and the rich will feel the pinch at the pump less but however feel it in a much different way.

The cost of services. The lower class that usually provides the labor for those services will have to charge more to cover their traveling cost. The upper middle class becomes the new middle class.

All of society takes a step down the rung.

As the effect of the rise in the price of gas begins to hit the economy, that's when you will see the price back off. It will drop down to a national average of roughly $3.00 a gallon and once again the U.S. population will groan and sigh with a resounding, "whew, that was close" once again.

However, this time while they are thanking their lucky stars, they will not have lost a foot, but one of their legs will be gone.

And this time they will remark, "well, I still have my other leg."

Up and up the price will go once again. Boiling the frog, cooking the goose, whatever you want to call it. It's still a death by a thousand cuts.

I choose to see it in a different way. I look at it as a way to ease us into a permanent depression. Where people muddle along, not complaining, not wanting, just grinning and bearing it. Unlike the crash of 29, where people demanded action, unions, standard work hours, good pay, social security, etc, and got it from a responsible government.

This time, the population, us, we, me, will just plod along, a portion of us will protest, but the economy, at least psychologically, is set up in such a way that people want more and more stuff and as long as the government can maintain that vail of normalcy, aka cheap crap at Wal-mart, nothing will change.

Perhaps this is the master plan to ease us off of fossil fuels, I would believe that if more fuel efficient cars were available or if an electric car was introduced or the rail system got a huge bump from the government, etc. But none of those things are happening, what is happening, as always through out the history of the world, the have mores are wanting even more at the expense of the have even-less.

Welcome to the future, where the race is not to win per say, but the last person to have the last tank of gas.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. interesting thoughts.
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. How do you think "peak oil" fits into this?
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. since the 70's they have stopped pumping and have been drilling and capping as fast as they can..
i worked for Shell Research Development and have family that work in drilling.

the plan is to use their's up them raise the price exponentially, but they didn't plan then on sending all the good paying jobs to mexico and china... they planned on people having the money to pay for the heavy prices... they F'd up.

we can become oil independent with hemp oil, that is why agricultural hemp is illegal, and the paper and cotton industry pay a lot to keep it off the market.

we could be oil independent simply using products like AMSOIL with 250,000 mile oil changes.. and extended engine wear up to and over 1,000,000 miles.

i had a neighbor who installed vapor carburetor units on V8's and the got over 30's per gallon, he had more than he could do and it was all word of mouth.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Vapor carburetor units? Where do I get this?
n/t
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. that was in Washington.. it is a very enlightened place in places.. i have been out of the loop, but
i think it was a heared micro stone, simular to aquarium aireators.. he had to adjust the fuel mixture using a sparkplug that had a little pyrex window in it, he adjusted the flame inside the combustion cylendar to a blue flame simular to what you see on a gas stove.. there are a lot of shams out there..tooo many , i dont remember the name of it.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Peak oil is happening...
and I think those in power know it. So rather than come out and say that and basically freak everyone out that has had their heads in the ground they are instead turning up the heat a little at time.

Which works in to ways, it gets the pop used to high prices and it makes the lots of money.
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Your last line explains Bush's Middle East policy so very succinctly.


Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Forget seperation of church and state, we need seperation of state and oil.
What I still have not been able to figure out - the oil industry is THE ONLY INDUSTRY IN AMERICA TO GET LARGE SUBSIDIES (read: free money) FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THE ONLY ONE. And they have recorded record breaking profits in the last four years.

None of this shit happened before Bush came to power. Sure, the oil industries still got subsidies, but they weren't making the record breaking profits they are. So why do they continue to get these large subsidies when, after $36 BILLION, they don't need them.

It's pretty clear that we're getting fucked by them on a daily basis, and they're laughing all the way to their untaxed overseas bank accounts. Something needs to be done.
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Reminds of of Mother Earth by Studs Terkel.
Ever read it?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I've read a bunch of stuff by him but not that one.
What's it about?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Mother Earth character and her bare existence.
It's worth a read.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. No place to go
At least the Okies could go to California. Where do they go now?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. We all head north...
there is still climate change to worry about as well.
Gonna get mighty hot here in the southern states soon enough.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Halliburton Homeland Security Detention Camp.
Where all thoughts are good and the Leader Knows All...
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. and bad thoughts send you to the microvave oven
first they put it on low to make you dance, then they cook your brains and eyeballs.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. And not one candidate mentioned Peak Oil in last night's debate.
I thought the best opportunity would have been when the question was raised about that disingenuous flat earther Thomas Friedman's Manhattan Project for energy. It would have been an opportunity to explain that the problem is not just our reliance on Middle East oil, but a GLOBAL problem that necessitates a global response in the same way climate change does. Not one peep from anyone about the real problem. No mention either of the Hirsch Report's clarification of just how much a REAL Manhattan Project to help us kick the oil habit would cost: $20 trillion. Too bad Kucinich didn't get a chance to answer.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No one will bring that up...
because much like Climate Change was the taboo topic relegated to the leftwing groups by the rightwing nuts, Peak Oil is now the new lexicon for the rightwing nuts to pounce on if mentioned by a candidate.

It's real, it's happening, yet, no one who's running for prez wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole because all the money people out there will pull all their support for said candidate.

corps control the U.S. the least of which is big oil.

We will be pulling our cars with mules before a candidate offers as much as a theory.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Noone has even whispered windfall profits tax
Not that I've heard anyway, this should be one of the primary jobs before confress right now, reclaiming the money that exxon and others stole. They made more in profits the last few years than most third world countries have in the treasury.
We ought to tax the living hell out of them and invest in renewable energy.
One more thing they haven't planned on, what happens when people say enough is fucking enough and come for them?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The windfall profit tax was floated for a while on the blogosphere...
but never went beyond the ironwall of the media.

There is always the possibility that people will say enough, but the reality is, just like with our revolutionary war, it took a good 15 years of BS from Britain before we did anything about it. I think the last straw was the quartering act. Allowing British soldiers to take residence in your home.

What needs to happen here is the guise of prosperity that moron* yells about needs to be revealed for the bull that it is. Until that point, people will continue to put medical bills on credit cards, continue to barrow off the equity in their homes and continue to buy useless crap because it's cheap and plentiful. If one or two of those things are kept from the masses then things will change.

But change will come slow, remember there are still 30% of the populations that still believes moron* is doing a great job all the while he's robbing the money straight out of their pockets.

Like most things in this nations history, we won't take action until forced to.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Dorgan was talking it up before '06 election.
In the majority now and bubkas.

:shrug:
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Peek oil is the best thing that can happen to oil companies
The way oil companies are able to make such huge profits have been shocks in the oil supply. Opec has been trying to do this for years. The demand for oil is very inelastic, so a small change in the supply will create a huge change in the price.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Exactly and they have figured out a great way of taking advantage of it...
Edited on Fri Apr-27-07 04:42 PM by Javaman
There have been various oil shocks, but so far many of them have been driven completely by fear, disinformation, or just out right lying.

They laugh at our ant like panic all the while checking the stove to see how high they can turn up the temp.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. Another aspect of the fallout: What happens to the price of real estate in
all these bedroom commuter communities when the price of gas skyrockets? I read something about that some time ago....when it becomes less desirable to live so far from work, the homes out there (especially the blue collar ones) fall in price. More people upside down...less furniture purchased...more bankruptcies.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Exactly. The only way for them to survive would be to start their own communities...
but the sad thing is, our society is such that very few people have that skill set any longer. To really build a town from scratch.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-27-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Interesting.
Much food for thought.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. I take exception with this one portion...
..."And as always, the upper middle class and the rich will feel the pinch at the pump less but however feel it in a much different way.

"The cost of services. The lower class that usually provides the labor for those services will have to charge more to cover their traveling cost. The upper middle class becomes the new middle class."

The upper classes will dictate what they will pay for said services and if the usual providers won't/can't provide those services at the prices they desire, the upper class will turn to someone desperate or exploitative enough to provide it at that price.

That is exactly what has driven the outsourcing of jobs and the exploitation of illegal immigrants.

Everyone won't just "step down a rung" but more accurately the lower classes will expand until the middle class is eradicated and all that's left are the two halves of "haves" and "have-nots." We'll turn back the clock to pre-20th Century America.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. that's a good point...
I need to give that part more thought, thanks for the input.
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. Gas was not 1.50 prior to Katrina, unless you are talking about wayyyyy before
like before Bush took office. Gas averaged 1.46 when Bush took office.
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