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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:11 AM
Original message
"No We Can't" is lame BS.
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 12:14 AM by ProSense
Or maybe this is another ridiculous article. They're all about some alternate reality used to justify why a bunch of people who do nothing but complain are demoralized. Here's how the article ends:

The good news is, OFA's last-minute blitz in Massachusetts underscored what it's still capable of. In just 10 days, the group generated more than twice as many calls on Coakley's behalf as they did in support of health care last year — an effort credited with helping to cut Republican Scott Brown's final margin of victory in half. Yet asked if the lesson from Massachusetts is that OFA should recommit itself to being a Democratic turnout machine this fall, Stewart is noncommittal. "We're still figuring it out," he says.

Privately, some party leaders complain that OFA isn't doing enough to campaign for vulnerable Democrats. The only true accomplishment from OFA's first year, they say, is the work it's done to build a national infrastructure for the president's 2012 re-election campaign. To reproduce the organizational structure developed by Obama for America in 2008, OFA has quietly deployed paid staff to all 50 states, building a network from state directors all the way down to a corps of supervolunteers, trained in organizing, who recruit an army of neighborhood team leaders. "There's a skeleton of a re-election campaign already set up — beyond a skeleton," says Figueroa, the campaign's former field director. "There's already meat to the bone in every state in the union. Three years away from the next election, that army is already being continually fed. If you're Barack Obama and his political operation, revving the engine, how is that not a good thing?"

The failures of the past year, however, have left a strong sense of betrayal among many who once were Obama's fiercest advocates. "After all the sweat and tears of the campaign," says the creator of a popular pro-Obama website, "we were owed the opportunity to fight for something." Adds another, "We thought we had earned an ownership stake in the future of our country through this campaign, but that ownership stake has been revoked."

Had Obama let his activists lead the charge and gone to the mat for health care reform, would the outcome have been any different? "I can't say that we would have health care reform," says Moulitsas. "But people wouldn't be so demoralized. We'd have an engaged base still willing to fight for that change. And I tell you what: We would not have lost Ted Kennedy's seat."

link

Never mind health care, at least people wouldn't have been demoralized? Oh brother.

Ignore the fact that OFA was out there making calls on most issues from day one. Ignore that the President spoke to thousand of these activists on several occasions. Ignore that many of the critics were lashing out at OFA and criticizing them for supporting the President.

Just make up an alternate reality to justify criticism and characterize the President's first year as a failure.

Utter BS.

What change: Grab a damn mop.


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I still can't divide by zero.
So much for "yes, we can," Mr. Obama.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Everyone knew what to do before Obama arrive in the WH. In fact,
they had all the answers, why didn't they get it done?

Why all the effort to spin everything he's doing as complete failure? It's bullshit, and if he is not the President in 2013, the OP article is still lame bullshit.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. HCAN Feb 17 Take It To The Streets!
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 12:32 AM by sandnsea
healthcareforamericanow.org

And OFA is still organizing calls to congress, lttes, and local events to educate people and get this legislation passed.

And, forgot, Democracy For America is joining the calls to congress this month too, on the 24th and 25th.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/8/835056/-Organizing-1,000,000-HCR-calls-to-Capitol-Hill-on-February-2425-

Just because the Naderites didn't join in doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Nobody's taking it to the streets for that shitty bill.
Give me a bill worth fighting for, and I'll fight for it. I'm not begging to be in debt to insurance criminals for the rest of my life.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Then sit back and complain about it.
It's still going to pass, thanks to the efforts of OFA and others.

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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. It's not worth passing
It's a giveaway to the health insurance companies

just like the $Billions given away to the bankers that stole $Billions. (that Obama helped push through congress)

and after all that stealing they took home $150 Billion in bonuses last year, under Obama's watch.

And Obama appointed Gietner and Bernanke (REPUBLICANS) to positions of banking oversite

and because of that all the same weak rules that allowed the bank heist in the first place are still there. And the phony derivatives are alive and well.

It's the ObamaRahma "Hope and Change" TV show, brought to you by... the corporations. Funny how a bunch of people on DU are still thinking a fictional TV show is real.

Goldman Sachs, at the center of the bank heist, Obama's second largest campaign contributor at $975,000, and it's paid off in the $BILLIONS for the fat cat criminals at Goldman Sachs, THANK YOU OBAMA!!!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. What are you doing to get your health care bill passed? n/t
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Which bill?
The Senate bill, nothing, I will not support it. The House bill, slightly better.

Now when you want to come up with a real reform bill and not a private insurance and pharma hand out come and talk to me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. HR676 is the only bill worth supporting.
20 pages vs. the 2,074 page Senate Private Insurance Profit Protection Act. Single Payer - Everybody In. Nobody Out.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. How many votes do you have for it? n/t
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Compromising principles in the interest of political convenience
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 01:55 AM by t0dd
is not a view I share.

Single payer is the only solution, and until that reality is embraced, we'll never achieve meaningful reform. Even if its politically infeasible right now, we keep pushing until we get the votes to make it happen. That's how movements work. As long as the Senate giveaway doesn't pass, single payer will be an option for states to pursue; and California, with Jerry Brown as governor, may be the first state to make that happen.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
53. And how many votes do you have in Congress?
That's what we're talking about, working to get legislation passed. How many votes do you have for yours? What's your strategy to get more?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. YOUR bill
If you don't like these, what are you doing to get some other bill passed?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #30
55. These bills don't solve the problem
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:18 AM by AllentownJake
So I don't call them Health Care Reform, just as I don't really buy the Patriot act would be that supported by patriots.

The issue in Health Care is it costs too much and is too high a proportion of GDP. This bill ensures it will cost more and be a higher portion.

The most wasteful thing you can do is take public money and hand it to private corporations, that on top of the mandatory customers ensure that the health care costs in this country are going to soar to new heights, and less people will get adequate care in the long run. We'll all have insurance and less care, no thank you.

Insurance is the most inefficient way you can pay for Health Care. High amount of guaranteed claims.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. I didn't ask any of that
I asked what your strategy is to get the bill you approve of passed. What states do you need to target to move Senate votes? What House districts are close enough to move a few votes? How are you going to make sure your proposal isn't fillibustered?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. It was the wrong time to be talking about Health Care
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:39 AM by AllentownJake
People are afraid of losing their jobs and homes

Healthcare is a secondary concern.

It wasn't 1993, it was 1933, and the party dropped the ball.

Roosevelt didn't start off with Social Security after a financial sector collapse, he fixed the financial sector, built trust and got social security.

You aren't going to get Health Care reform till you rebuild trust in the government on other matters.

Sorry the populace doesn't trust the government after 30 years of bad government policy.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #65
75. lol, cute
I don't know what your game is, but you've sure got a lot of people buffaloed. Bye.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Funny
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 03:30 AM by AllentownJake
I point out that people are more interested in job creation and financial regulatory reform in the worst economic conditions since the 1930s and you accuse me of something, both are popular and easy wins that would build support for the administration and you accuse me of having ill intentions.

I guess he could have gone after cap and trade in August, I'm guessing that is the only policy that would have cost more political capital and electoral losses.


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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. OFA prevented Coakley from losing in a landslide
But ultimately the blame for losing lies with Coakley--a babbling, simpering, nincompoop--herself.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Coakley wasn't paying attention. In fact she went on vacation. Kennedy's seat kept it
from being a landslide.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. OFA has been an absolute failure
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 12:40 AM by AllentownJake
They have no electoral victories and they have no legislative victories.

Tell the President to grab a mop and stop making a bigger mess. There was a very effective operation in the DNC created by the last chairman, who he stole his campaign structure from, and he'd be wise to go back to that and abandon his self indulgent OFA model.

More calls were made to congress in opposition to TARP than were made in support, it still passed.

Calling congress gets nothing done, getting people elected and organizing for it in the offseason is the only way to secure political victories.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks for proving the point. n/t.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Oh I see
People are demoralized because we all won't run to the OFA hotline and call Arlen Specter and Bob Casey for the 15th time.

Here is the deal, organize locally, build your bench and your party in your area, and than things will fall in place.

Take all your parties volunteers and have them calling people who are already voting for a bill or people who will never vote for a bill and you go down in flames.

A victory in New Jersey, Virginia, or Mass would have done more for HCR than phone calls.

A party's strength isn't when it's all stars get elected it, it's when the 80% of their candidates that are some shade of not exciting get pulled over the finish line.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. No you don't see.
Stop complaining about OFA if you "do see." They organize and do their thing in support of the President and Democrats. Nothing, not OFA or anyone, is stopping you from doing your thing.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I am doing my "thing"
I'm going to work my ass off to get Dan Onorato elected Governor and OFA can kiss my ass because they will be offering no help in that task.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. " OFA can kiss my ass "
You're actually jealous of them.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes because they've been so succesful
Pro, I was in OFA originally and leadership, I left because it was a waste of time.

I work to get people elected. If I want to lobby on issues, I call Moveon.org.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm neither
they have no electoral victories and no legislative victories.

There were no organizers in place when the stimulus bill was passed.

There were organizers in place for HCR and for the VA, NJ, and Mass races. All were losses.

What has OFA been successful at actually getting done.

Who have they elected and what legislation can they claim part of the credit for?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes. You. Are. n/t
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. You never said what they were succeful at
because you have nothing you can point to.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Let's see,
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 01:07 AM by ProSense
you spent the year complaining about health care reform. They spent the year calling in support of reform. The bill made it through seven of eight votes.

OFA 7, You 0

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. The Mayor of Allentown was elected by over 70%
Which is where I spent most of my time from July of 2009 to November of 2009 and the vote total in Allentown pulled the County Exec over the finish line in a bad year.

OFA 0 AllentownJake 1
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
82. LOLZ
you didn't answer any of his questions at all
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
61. What are you?
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:31 AM by Marr
I hear you talk all kinds of crap about volunteers. What do you doing, besides posting on the interweb?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. +1
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
42. Obama's operation was superior to anything Dean did in every way.
Dean was organizing 101. Obama schooled him.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #42
81. Whatever, Chad.
How's your dad doing, now that he finally got rid of From and took over the DLC?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Proudly K & U
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Thanks, but I don't care about recs.
They never got anyone elected.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. and neither has OFA
:rofl:
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. +1 nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. Wrong,
They helped to snatch away seat that the Republicans held for 140 years.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Not many races
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 01:34 AM by AllentownJake
Where the moderate official GOP candidate endorses the Democrat after dropping out.

:rofl:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. You were and still are wrong? n/t
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. PUBLIC OPTION
Is all I have to say to you.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Diversion to cover for being wrong.
That is all I have to say.

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
77. Fuckin' A.
:thumbsup:
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. "They never got anyone elected."
and neither will a sh*t health care bill

Unless Americans are dumbed down further than I think

they are waking up to the big screwing they've been getting all this year.

Obama disapproval from 20% to 48% in one year

http://charts.realclearpolitics.com/1044.epoll.html

hopefully he won't get re-elected.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. It's amusing he is still as popular as he is
It has a lot to do with his celebrity persona, and that people are very unaware of his policies. You tell someone you are against Obama, and they recoil in terror: "You are a Republican?!" They don't realize he is a corporatist; it's that he has a nice smile, a cute dog, and gives rousing speeches. Gay people last year were saying this and were kicked to the curb.

I echo that last sentiment. I know I won't vote for him.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
32. We did grab a mop. And we got called, "fucking retards," for doing it
"Never mind, health care, at least people wouldn't have been demoralized."

I don't think the point here was that health care was not important. I think the point was that if the grass roots on our side had been unleashed on the Senators who were holding health care reform hostage and on the town halls in August to oppose the teabaggers, we very likely would have gotten some real reform. Instead, they muzzled us and we wound up with a corporate blow job bill that inspires very few. I believe the point was a fight for real reform probably would have succeeded and would not have demoralized those who thought they were supporting Obama's agenda. Remember, this happened in August when Obama was still claiming he wanted a public option. So, the left wing grass roots goes out, raises the money to run the ads to call out those who were opposing it and the CofS calls them, "fucking retards." Brilliant!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Oh brother.
Give up then, but realize that when you give up, your complaints will ring hollow.

The response you just gave is the typical nonsensical spin that has come to characterize a lot of the silly criticisms that linger long after the facts are known.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #35
54. You said "grab a mop"
I replied that we grabbed a mop in August by raising one hell of a lot of money to target the obstructionists and it was hitting home. Nelson was on Ed's show right before the August recess whining about it. He was feeling the heat and we had ads planned for all of the ObstructoDems in the Senate. Rahm called us "fucking retards" for it. Apparently, it was fine if we wanted to shill for the corporate blow job bill that the Blue Dogs forced on us. But standing up for the public option that President Obama, at that time, still claimed to believe in was, "fucking retarded."

The "facts" were known, then. The "facts" were we had a few corporate shills among the Democrats in the Senate who intended to give the insurance companies everything they wanted in the "reform" bill. The "fact" is that a grassroots organization of 13 million people who were ready to give their time and money (I scraped some up out of the extremely meager amount my husband and I have now) to go to the wall fighting for what the President said he wanted. And it would have put those fucking teabaggers to shame in the town halls and on the airwaves. We were mobilized, energized, and ready to fight. The Conservadems would not have been able to keep opposing. But, you can believe what you want. If healthcare is going down in flames, it's not cause the left was not ready to do their part. But we were not ready to do our part shilling for health care corporations.

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paulflorez Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. if the grass roots on our side had been unleashed on the Senators...and on the town halls...
"I think the point was that if the grass roots on our side had been unleashed on the Senators who were holding health care reform hostage and on the town halls in August to oppose the teabaggers, we very likely would have gotten some real reform."

DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!

I went to the townhalls, and there were almost twice as many people protesting against "socialism" as there were people protesting for healthcare reform. WTH? Inside it was even worse. The people against healthcare reform yelled, screamed and threw a tantrum against "socialism" and it was all over the media.

Liberals/Progressive groups AND INDIVIDUALS let the opposition frame the debate. It's as if they rolled over and went to sleep after the 2008 election! WHERE WAS EVERYONE???

When I hear people say now "Obama failed" I wonder, where the heck were these people during the town halls? If all of these Liberals/Progressives who have been complaining on the internet had bothered to go to the halls or done SOMETHING to get the media's attention, they would have gained the power to frame the debate and they would still be in charge.

My only question is, who "muzzled" the groups and individuals? I don't recall being muzzled, I saw the townhalls in the media and I went. Perhaps the groups were just too lazy or ineffective at getting people to go, given that I was not being hounded to go to the townhalls as I should have been. I went anyways, and the sheer lack of progressive/liberal/democratic individuals was demoralizing.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. Forget about the secret deals Obama made with Big PhRMA,
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:06 AM by t0dd
his constant courting of Olympia Snowe, and his absolute silence on the public option. Hell, even Harry Reid stood up for the PO at one point, and how did the WH respond?

"We sure hope you know what you're doing".. instead of, oh, you know, having his back and fighting for something a huge majority of the people wanted. No, no.. the "public option is only a sliver of reform"..

Yep, it's all progressives' fault. :sarcasm:
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
56. Did you read the entire article? It's quite clear who muzzled the left.
I gave money to run the ads against the Conservadems and Rahm called us, "fucking retarded." We were more and more getting the message that the public option was to be downplayed. We had a huge conference call with President Obama and we were all just waiting to hear how he needed us to fight for the public option. But he did not. We were called on to rally for some kind of ill defined plan and, during this same time frame, he was out praising the work of the gang of six thugs led by Baucus. I was not inclined to be out on the front lines shilling for the corporate blow job the Senate was writing and the President was supporting.
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paulflorez Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
79. Ok, I understand now.
The quote gave me a different impression. I read the full article and I found the answer:
"In addition, with Plouffe providing less input in his inner circle, Obama began to pursue a more traditional, backroom approach to enacting his agenda. Rather than using OFA to engage millions of voters to turn up the heat on Congress, the president yoked his political fortunes to the unabashedly transactional style of politics advocated by his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel. Health care reform — the centerpiece of his agenda — was no longer about mobilizing supporters to convince their friends, families and neighbors in all 50 states. It was about convincing 60 senators in Washington. It became about deals."

If it's true that OFA was shoved into the DNC, this makes sense to me. The OFA should have always been an independent organization, that's what gave it power.

I don't think we could have achieved single-payer, because when I looked back at what it took to get Medicare, the environment, economy, etc, I feel that you're not going to get more Medicare right now, but I DO think we could have had a public option if those of us itching to fight had actually be lead to the charge.

My only question is now WTF do we do? Is it too late to rip the OFA from the DNC? Should we start a new grassroots effort? I don't want to just give up!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. I don't know what we can do to get those 13 million engaged, again.
Can they be ripped from the DNC? Probably, if there was a will to do so. But, I don't see that there is. I'm hoping President Obama will wake up in time. At this point, it just looks as if OFA is gearing up for their 2012 ground efforts and I don't see much else.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. +1
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
38. Never mind health care
"Never mind health care"

is apparently what Obama thought

because he arm twisted and rammed through the defense spending bill, $BILLIONS for the never ending oil war of oppression

but he just couldn't seem to manage a meaningful health care bill with a super majority, even though he was trying just as hard as the defense appropriations. :sarcasm:
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paulflorez Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. which included the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
46. Because the truth is, "We don't really want to, we just said we did to get your votes."
So yeah, I'm not quite as cynical as those who really believed in Obama. I saw through his fake progressive act right away. I just didn't think he'd be this willing to let the Blue Dogs and the corporatists take the lead and so willing to cave in to the Republicans.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. So that's why he gave two speeches to Congress and is still pushing for it?
Maybe you just want to believe you were right all along and enjoy the chance to tell others so. Obama has been in the public eye pushing health care nonstop. I've never seen a President make a public push like this for anything. Did Bush or Clinton go on Letterman and all the other talk shows to fight for a single issue? No!
If it isn't passing, maybe its because the Democratic base is spending more time finding reason to complain about Obama than we spend pressuring the Senate.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Yes, he's given several speeches trying to garner support for the HCR bill since the Senate wrote
their corporate blow job bill. He was MIA in August when we were looking for direction to go out and fight the Senate obstructionists to get a public option. We still believed the President wanted a public option. I'm not sure how else to interpret it when the liberal grass roots organizations raised the money to run the ads to turn the heat up on the corporate shills and the President's CofS called us, "fucking retards." How smart would we have had to be to see that they weren't working on the agenda we, previously, thought?

"It" isn't passing cause "it" isn't reform any more. I'm not going out to shill for this corporate giveaway.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #58
84. Exactly--where was Obama's "advocacy" when
the Blue Dogs were having temper tantrums or when members of the Progressive Caucus were trying to get a public option or expansion of Medicare included?

In an alternative fantasy land where Ronald Reagan wanted universal health care, he would have gotten it. I hated everything he did, but I have to admit that he and his team knew how to use pressure from voters to get what they wanted.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
49. When did Obama back down on health care?
This is a meme meant to demoralize and demobilize the left. Why does the press keep telling us that Obama is backing down? Because that's what they want and they believe they can make it a self-fulfilling prophecy by saying it often enough. So why the fuck should we help them by repeating their propaganda?!?!

I've seen him campaign hard for it constantly in a way that I've seen no President push for anything before. Bill Clinton didn't go on this many TV shows and give this many speeches for his health care bill. Clinton had already given up on universal health care at this point in his Presidency but Obama is still pushing!

And before people spout off your griping points about Obama failing us in the Senate or whatever, try reading the Constitution. We have a system based on compromise. Obama has to live within that system. Working a compromise to get the best bill possible is not giving up or betrayal. Take a 7th grade constitution course and deal with it.

Negativity and defeatism are the movement's worst enemies. It doesn't make people vote 3rd party. It doesn't make people put more pressure on Obama or take direct action. It makes people lose hope and give up, just like the irrelevant non-voting public.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Please explain what part of compromise involves having secret
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:17 AM by t0dd
negotiations with the pharmaceutical industry guaranteeing certain reforms won't be in the final bill? Drug reimportation and direct drug price negotiation by Medicare would have saved Americans billions of dollars, but as part of the deal, Obama promised PhRMA they wouldn't appear in the final legislation. And low and behold, they didn't... I'm sorry, but, to me, that is the epiphany of betrayal.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. ZOMG NOT SECRET MEETINGS?!?!111?!
Are you really naive enough to think that compromise deals on ANY bill in Congress are done in open committee hearings? No, it's discussed in private. That's how Congress works. It may not be good, but suddenly complaining about it like it's some kind of unusual scandal is stupid.

And the meaning of compromise is that you have to give up something good that you like in order to get a bill passed. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a compromise. When you point out that Obama let something good go out of the bill then you have successfully identified what most people would call a compromise.
Letting health care die because you wouldn't back down on one issue that could be fixed at a later date would be a betrayal.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. It isn't health care reform, and I don't believe the American
people should have to compromise with greedy corporations that put profits ahead of actual human life. But I see you use that quote in your signature just for show. The type of injustice is negligible as long as your favorite politician gets his 'W'.

And I'm not talking about Congress, this is the WH alone that did this as part of their sweetheart deal.

There's a myriad of things wrong with the bill, that would in the long run be more harmful than good if signed into law, but keep spewing your misinformation.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. You wrote
"I don't believe the American people should have to compromise with greedy corporations that put profits ahead of actual human life."
Neither do I but we don't live in a dictatorship. We live in a republic heavily dominated by corporate special interests. Neither of those are things Obama can change in the next month while he pushes for some kind of step forward.

How does working against Obama's efforts help achieve health care reform?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. These were not compromises. They were total capitulation to an industry who has been at war with the
American people for decades. And we were to be ordered to give them our money to continue their war with. Starting negotiations from the weakest position is not a good negotiating style and I don't think the people at the White House were stupid enough to think it is.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Starting?
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:39 AM by Radical Activist
But the compromise mentioned wasn't part of Obama's original bill, was it? It was something changed later on to get things moving. You're exaggerating.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. The deals cut with Karen Ignagni and Billy Tauzin were part of the Senate Finance Committee bill
which the President kept touting in his speeches. While the gang of six thugs worked to gut real reform the President kept praising their work and calling for bipartisanship. At that point we had 4 other bills which had been passed out of committee which were all far better bills. He never once mentioned a one of them or thanked those committees for their work. It was obvious Max and his gang were writing the bill the President wanted. And they did not want us rallying in August to get a better bill.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #70
80. GOOD INFO
In other words...

the ObamaRahma ding-dong "health care reform"

IS A FUC*ING FARCE!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
60. We can't know exactly when he backed down on reform for the people and
began working on the giveaway to the insurance industry. But we can surmise that it had happened by August when we got called, "fucking retards," by his CofS for raising money to run ads to target Senators who were opposing the public option.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. aaww did you get your feelings hurt by big bad Rahm? Poor thing.
:nopity:

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. It's not about my feelings. I've been an RN working with terminally ill people for
25 years. I have broad shoulders. What I saw was they were not interested in passing any real health care reform. You can believe what you want. This White House abandoned any thoughts of real reform in hopes of big campaign contributions from the health insurance industry. And I'm not gonna shill for that corporate blow job they've been calling, "reform."
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. Oh yeah! Well...
That's hard work and I'm glad there are people out there who do it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. +1000 nt
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #69
74. I only give to individual candidates.
What does that have to do with it? If you're unhappy with Rahm than make enough noise that the Senate will be afraid to pass anything more watered down that the House version. That's how you make Rahm eat his words.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Nothing is being passed unless the filibuster goes
and I mean totally goes, not modified to 55 votes.

The Mass election cost you about 6 votes in the Senate not the 1 that was lost with the loss of Teddy's seat.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-11-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #49
67. *edit*
Edited on Thu Feb-11-10 02:41 AM by Marr
Because I don't actually want to get into this.
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