The long, drawn out end of the American Empire

[Cyrano]

The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Spanish, the French, the British, the Germans: All had their empires. Most lasted for centuries and others for only a few decades.

It seems to me that we are falling into the “few decades” category. Our “Empire” has lasted since about the end of WWII when we became the world’s preeminent power. I guess our nuclear arsenal had something to do with it. And I would also venture that the creation of a true middle class made us an economic giant.

And now, it’s over. Our “Empire” has lasted a little more than 60 years. Our middle class is shrinking daily and our nuclear weapons are useless -- unless we use them, in which case, everyone loses.

So right now, we have a world teetering on the edge of economic disaster, and we are totally unable, and/or unwilling, to do anything about it. This has happened before in history. I guess the only question is, how long will this period of "economic dark ages" last?

Perhaps, just perhaps, human beings will start to grasp the concept that all of humanity is an interconnected species. And perhaps, just perhaps, we will start to cooperate in building a sane, civilized planet.

Then again, we might just destroy ourselves. This is not an unlikely outcome given human being's history of greed, cruelty, and lust for total power.

[liberal N proud]

1. We had two centuries

A little more than a few decades.

[jaysunb]

2. The OP is correct.

WWll was the beginning,prior to that we were like a teenager....

[HereSince1628]

21. Perhaps it depends on what you mean by empire.

We had pretty much two centuries of expansion that included crushing indigenous peoples, running off European powers and pushing back near-neighbors. That gave 'US' wide control of North America. That was an empire in a real continental sense.

Only in the past two hundred years have global empires been possible. The US achieved global military and economic hegemony during and, for a time, following WWII. That made us a global empire, with circumglobal economic and military interests.

Our economic hegemony, which motivates our need to expand, support and defend our interests globally (IOW imperialism), rose not so much because of nuclear weapons, but because of WWII. Much of the non-American industrialized world was in physical or economic ruin or both.

In the past 4 decades, as American corporate ideology demanded ever-growing profit share, industries have found relief from production overhead first by avoiding taxes by "going south" then moving to foreign headquarters and foreign shell subsidiaries and more recently to avoiding taxes, regulations, and labor costs by shipping entire industries overseas.

For a time this was seen as a harmless sort of pseudo-colonialism (think about the US controlled Pacific islands and their clothing sweatshops). But it also globalized industrial development. That has empowered a number of nations to become serious competitors first for selected industries and then for manufacturing in general.

Our empire is over because of global shifting (changing balance, probably not rebalancing) of national economies. Here, because we have been so advantaged for so long, the loss of our advantage comes at human costs of lower standards of living. The costs seem even worse because we are aculturated to growing personal opulence and growing opulence. Moreover, we took that to be a birth right, which now looks like lots of future broken promises.

[Marr]

3. I'll be happy to see our empire go, personally.

They're great scams for a few at the top, and very hard on everyone else. Britain is greatly diminished compared to it's days of empire, but the average Brit seems better off for it.

[Mari333]

4. knr well said

[Lindsay]

5. Just for the record,

I blame Reagan and his henchmen.

[RKP5637]

7. SAME HERE!!! n/t

[Ishoutandscream2]

15. Seconded

[RKP5637]

6. Quite correct, we had a good run of it since WWII and then destroyed our success. Very sad. I was

born then and watched/participated in the success, now I'm sadly watching it all decline IMO. This country has to get a grip or it will be another in the history of declines...

[Juche]

8. I welcome our Chinese overlords.

Well, not really. I hope they clean up their human rights record.

By around 2025 the Chinese economy will surpass ours in GDP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

Here are some other interesting factoids (lifted from wikipedia quoting a goldman sachs projection. The same Goldman Sachs that didn't have the foresight to not collapse the global economy. Sooooo)


In 2050:

Per capita income in Mexico will be as high as Japan, at about 63k

The economy of nations like Turkey, Indonesia, Nigeria & Vietnam will be roughly the size of Germany, the UK, France or Canada

Brazil's economy will be bigger than Germany and France combined

China's economy will be bigger than the US & EU-15 combined



http://www.amazon.com/Post-American-World-Fareed-Zakaria/dp/039306235X

[arcadian]

9. Most put the official start at 1898, the beginning of the Spanish-American War.

But I would say we have always had imperial aspirations.

[Cirque du So-What]

12. So would I

'Manifest destiny' was an expression of a desire for empire (with gawd's blessing, naturally) - conquering the entire continent from the gawdless savages and the Papist Romans from France & Spain.

[Dappleganger]

10. Jesus, this waxing poetic

crap about the demise of the US is really grating on my nerves.

[Cyrano]

11. So how do you think the rest of people on this planet feel?

Or don't they count?

[Dappleganger]

22. They count just as much as us...

no more and no less. I'm just tired of the swan songs from hurt idealists. We'll survive and adapt just like any other country has to in the evolution of their society.

[Cyrano]

27. Assuming we survive and don't blow up the world out of being pissed

at no longer being "NUMBER ONE," do you think that's a bad thing?

As others have pointed out here, the Europeans have had their empires and their moments of "glory." And it seems to me that Europeans are content to not be running the world and are far less arrogant than are we.

Would that most Americans got used to that idea. First, it's a responsibility that we can really do very well without. Second, it's just around the corner.

[Juche]

13. Howso

We do have tons of problems, and other nations are rising up pretty fast.

So what is the problem? We had a good run. And losing our status won't be horrible (life in France, Germany, Japan & the UK is really good, better than here IMO due to better policies).

But the future of global hegemony and economics seems to belong to China, India, Brazil and other developing nations.

Like I posted, by 2050 Vietnam may have an economy the size of Canada's (both around 3 trillion in 2050). That is going to affect geopolitics and economics.

[pampango]

19. Well said. I expect Americans to be fine even after the US is no longer #1. The British, French,

Greeks, Italians (ex-Romans) all have pretty decent societies where people live good lives. I wonder what those folks think when they see Americans moaning about the prospect of "life after empire". Americans represent about 1 in 20 of the world's population so it's not surprising that we will not be the preeminent world power for the rest of human history.

[Dappleganger]

20. Well that certainly makes sense.

Maybe it's because my expectations of America weren't all that great from the beginning, so it's not been as big of a disappointment to see how things are changing. I don't think that our society has ever been as world-changing or influential as Greek or Roman society in the long-run.

Life goes on...we have to adapt, and we WILL adapt and be fine. So we have smaller tv's and 10 year old cars (which has been standard in our home for years), big deal.

I'm just a little tired of the 'goodbye, America' threads because they weren't grounded in reality from the beginning.

[Marr]

28. The country and the empire are two different things.

I've no doubt the United States will go on just fine. Maybe the standard of living will even improve, who can say? But I do think our empire is declining, and likely to pick up speed in that direction. Our position on the world stage is diminishing and others are advancing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Please describe for me your view of what the "end of the American Empire" will look like

and how it will affect the citizens of the United States primarily, and how it will affect the WORLD as a consequence.

Humor me.

[Cyrano]

16. Surely you jest. I'm supposed to see the consequences of the

collapse of the American "Empire?" If I could do that, I'd go to Vegas.

There's a huge difference in believing that something will come about and predicting the consequences.

Nonetheless, hang on a moment while I get my crystal ball and my Nostradamus "How To" book.

[BeFree]

24. How about this...

...Our military spending goes way down.
We develop our own energy sources so we don't have to fight them over there.
Our taxes go down, but we spend more on education and health care.
The rest of the world sees the US as a good neighbor instead of one to be feared.
And on the way down we take all the world's nuclear weapons with us.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. That actually sounds like a goal more than a consequence.

I don't think the OP had such a rosy picture in mind. Self-destruction "is not an unlikely outcome" in his words.

[BeFree]

26. well...

...I guess the OP is a radical reactionary?
Things is, to a lot of USians, the end of empire would be an awful thing and they would feel destroyed.

[Cyrano]

30. You've caught onto the devious intent of my OP.

At present, I am roaming the country buying up all those giant "We're Number One" fingers that some people have the inexplicable need to wave at ballgames.

Once I've got them all, I intend to change the "One" to a "Two," or "Eight," or "Fifteen," wait for history to unfold, and then make a fortune selling them back to those same people with the inexplicable need to publicly identify their position in the scheme of things.

[BeFree]

31. I got a finger for ya...!!!

Well, two actually, it's a Peace sign.

[branders seine]

17. here is a "destroy" prediction

-sigh-

[NC_Nurse]

18. "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine."

Maybe a little humility would be a good thing for our country. I'm sick of our leaders throwing their weight around in my name.
Maybe we should mind our own business and work on our own glaring faults. Clearly our government is every bit as corrupt as
the others we so often criticize. We have lost our status through illegal wars, torture, and the obvious bigotry of many of our citizens.

Time to look in the mirror and see where it all went wrong.

[Dappleganger]

23. "See where it all went wrong.."

and then we need to move on. God help us if we don't learn from our mistakes or not try to move forward.

We're just itty-bitty ants on a small blue-green ball in the universe, but we still have a job to do.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

29. Why The U.S. Economy Will Collapse

posted with permission from: http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2010/02/why-us-economy-will-collapse.html

It is very simple.

1) A nation can't borrow and print its way out of a debt crisis. It destroys confidence in its currency and makes matters worse, regardless of how charismatic its president.

2) A nation's consumers can't shop their way to prosperity by buying goods they can't afford. It only compounds their debts.

3) A nation can't sell its government to the highest bidders. When that happens, not only is the treasury pillaged, so is the freedom of the people. The latter just takes a little longer.

4) A nation can't drain its resources on weapons and wars. It's the fastest way to the poor house, morally and financially, for beating people into submission doesn't work and extracts a heavy price on the souls of those who try it.

The financial collapse has already begun, but there is good news as well. The collapse will force the people to get involved with their government, rather than just casting a ballot and assuming the politician they voted for will fix the problems.

It is also a chance for the people to learn from their mistakes and build a better, more humble and compassionate nation, one that uses its resources to uplift itself and the rest of the world. For that is how one truly finds peace and prosperity.

[RKP5637]

32. Excellent!!! n/t

[lunatica]

33. The country will continue. It just won't be an Empire

And personally I can't wait.

[Cyrano]

34. Your bet.

Millions of Americans are clueless and wish we were in a position to stop progress. And they are clueless as to how better off the world could/would be.

There is no better example than modern day Europe or Japan of how much better off we would be if we were not the "Masters of the Universe."

Unfortunately, there are those who will never "get it." And hopefully, they don't include those who are in a position to launch our most deadly military power.