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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:01 PM
Original message
Our Corrupted and Failing Democracy
A recent article in The Nation by Lawrence Lessig, titled “How to Get our Democracy Back – There Will Be No Change Until we Change Congress”, puts the blame for our current state of affairs squarely on the U.S. Congress. Actually, it’s not Congress per se that is the problem, but our system for electing our Congresspersons – which of course has brought us our current Congress. Of course, our broken system is also used to elect our President and myriad lesser public officials.

Lessig begins “How to Get our Democracy Back” by talking about how presidential candidate Barack Obama emphasized our broken system during his presidential campaign but has thus far failed to carry through on the implied promises demanded by that rhetoric:

The passion that Obama inspired grew from the recognition that something fundamental had gone wrong in the way our government functions, and his commitment to reform it…. As he told us, both parties had allowed “lobbyists and campaign contributions to rig the system.” And “unless we’re willing to challenge that broken system…nothing else is going to change…”

This administration has not taken up that fight. Instead, it has stepped down from the high ground the president occupied on January 20, 2009, and played a political game no different from the one George W. Bush played, or Bill Clinton before him. Obama has accepted the power of the “defenders of the status quo” and simply negotiated with them.


Our Bankrupt Congress

Lessig then focuses on the U.S. Congress:

At the center of our government lies a bankrupt institution: Congress. Not financially bankrupt… politically bankrupt… Consistently and increasingly over the past decade, faith in Congress has collapsed. Today it is at a record low… just 25 percent approve of how Congress is handling its job. A higher percentage of Americans likely supported the British Crown at the time of the Revolution than support our Congress today…

And this is because most believe our Congress is a simple pretense: That rather than being, as our framers promised, an institution “dependent on the People,” the institution has developed a pathological dependence on campaign cash. The US Congress has become the Fundraising Congress. And it answers not to the People, and not even to the president, but increasingly to the relatively small mix of interests… This is corruption. Not the corruption of bribes or any other crime… Instead, it is a corruption of the faith Americans have in this core institution of our democracy.

I have to voice a slight disagreement with the part of the above excerpt that I put in italics. It is a disagreement of terminology, but I think it is important. Why say that this is not bribery? How can corporate donations to public officials, predictably followed by those public officials passing legislation that the corporate donors have made clear they favor (through highly paid lobbyists) not be bribery? What possible definition of bribery excludes that? I’ve discussed this issue in several previous posts, as here, here, and here.

Anyhow, Lessig goes on to discuss the views of American citizens on this issue, explain how it works, and how it has become worse in recent years:

The vast majority of Americans believe money buys results in Congress (88 percent in a recent California poll)… The democracy is feigned. A feigned democracy breeds cynicism. Cynicism leads to disengagement. Disengagement leaves the fox guarding the henhouse. This corruption is not hidden. On the contrary, it is in plain sight, with its practices simply more and more brazen.

Consider, for example… Max Baucus, who has gladly opened his campaign chest to $3.3 million in contributions from the healthcare and insurance industries since 2005, a time when he controlled healthcare in the Senate. Or Senators Lieberman, Bayh and Nelson, who took millions from insurance and healthcare interests and then opposed the popular public option for healthcare. Or any number of Blue Dog Democrats in the House who did the same… The list is endless; the practice open and notorious. Since the time of Rome, historians have taught that while corruption is a part of every society, the only truly dangerous corruption comes when the society has lost any sense of shame. Washington has lost its sense of shame… The money may have come in brown paper bags in earlier eras, but the politicians needed, and took, much less of it than they take through more formal channels today… And not surprisingly, as powerful interests from across the nation increasingly invest in purchasing public policy… wealth, and a certain class of people, shift to Washington.


How we should respond to Congress or anyone else who denies this obvious problem

Lessig notes that members of Congress pretend to be outraged by charges that they are susceptible to bribes… I mean, influenced to change their votes based on who gives them money. They acknowledge that the money buys “access”, but deny that this “access” helps to determine their actions in behalf of their public responsibilities.

Lessig proposes two responses to this denial of the obvious. First, he notes that even if it is true that the actions of Congress are not influenced by the corporate “campaign donations” they receive, accepting those campaign donation from corporations whose interests they support gives the appearance of corruption. Secondly, Lessig asks how else can we explain the current degree of Congressional dysfunction:

If money really doesn’t affect results in Washington, then what could possibly explain the fundamental policy failures of our government over the past decades? The choice (made by Democrats and Republicans alike) to leave unchecked a huge and crucially vulnerable segment of our economy, which threw the economy over a cliff when it tanked (as independent analysts again and again predicted it would). Or the choice to leave unchecked the spread of greenhouse gases… Or… you fill in the blank. From the perspective of what the People want, or even the perspective of what the political parties say they want, the Fundraising Congress is misfiring in every dimension. That is either because Congress is filled with idiots or because Congress has a dependency on something other than principle or public policy sense (i.e. corporate money). In my view, Congress is not filled with idiots…

I have a third suggested (though simpler and less tactful) response to those who deny the problem: How stupid do you have to be to believe that Congressional action isn’t influenced by the corporate money they use to run their campaigns?


Healthcare “reform” as an example

Since we are currently in the midst of a monumental Congressional effort to enact health care “reform”, it is worth while and instructive to consider how our broken system has affected this health care “reform”:

Healthcare reform is a perfect example. The bill the Fundraising Congress has produced is miles from the reform that Obama promised (“Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange…including a public option,” July 19, 2009). Like the stimulus package, like the bank bailouts, it is larded with gifts to the most powerful fundraising interests – including a promise to drug companies to pay retail prices for wholesale purchases and a promise to the insurance companies to leave their effectively collusive and extraordinarily inefficient system of insurance intact – and provides (relative to the promises) little to the supposed intended beneficiaries of the law: the uninsured… The first step, we are told, was to sit down with representatives from the insurance and pharmaceutical industries to work out a deal. But why, the student of Obama’s campaign might ask, were they the entities with whom to strike a deal? How many of the 69,498,516 votes received by Obama did they actually cast?

One might also ask how much money did the Obama campaign receive from them.


Incipient fascism

Thom Hartmann, in his book “Threshold – The Crisis of Western Culture”, is less cautious about the wording he uses to describe the problem. Noting the increasingly close collaboration between our elected government with wealthy and powerful corporations, he says:

We have reached the point in the United States where corporatism has nearly triumphed over democracy. If events continue on their current trajectory, the ability of our government to respond to the needs and desires of humans – things like fresh water, clean air, uncontaminated food, independent local media, secure retirement, and accessible medical care – may vanish forever, effectively ending the world’s second experiment with democracy. We will have gone too far down Mussolini’s road, and most likely will encounter similar consequences, elements of which we have already experienced: a militarized police state, a government unresponsive to its citizens and obsessed with secrecy, a ruling elite drawn from the senior ranks of the nation’s largest corporations, and war.

Americans should be reminded that we fought World War II largely in order to prevent Fascism from dominating the world.


Summarizing the problem

Referring to our failing democracy, Lessig says:

Its central player has been captured. Corrupted. Controlled by an economy of influence disconnected from the democracy, Congress has developed a dependency foreign to the framers’ design. Corporate campaign spending, now liberated by the Supreme Court, will only make that dependency worse – “A dependence” not, as the Federalist Papers celebrated it, “on the People”, but a dependency upon interests that have conspired to produce a world in which policy gets sold…

No one… should accept it. No president, Republican or Democratic, who doesn’t change this system could possibly hope for any substantive reform…There will be no change in fundamental aspects of the existing economy, however inefficient, from healthcare to energy to food production, until this political economy is changed… In a single line: there will be no change until we change Congress… As John Edwards used to say, there’s all the difference in the world between a lawyer making an argument to a jury and a lawyer handing out $100 bills to the jurors…

Our government is, as Paul Krugman put it, “ominously dysfunctional” just at a time when the world desperately needs at least competence. Global warming, pandemic disease, a crashing world economy: these are not problems we can leave to a litter of distracted souls. We are at one of those rare but critical moments when a nation must remake itself, to restore its government to its high ideals and to the potential of its people…


Solutions

Nobody thinks that any good solutions will come easy. Lessig recognizes in his article that we are unlikely to see reforms from our current Congress, notwithstanding the current huge Democratic majorities in Congress. He proposes three ideas:

First is citizen-funded elections, aimed at removing Congressional dependence on corporate money for their campaigns. Lessig points to legislation currently pending in Congress, the Fair Elections Now Act, as a good example of this. Secondly, he proposes banning members of Congress from becoming lobbyists or from having other close corporate ties for seven years after leaving Congress. But given the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in Citizens United v. FEC, Lessig believes that a Constitutional amendment may be required. Noting that neither our current Congress nor any other Congress in the near future is likely to move in that direction, he notes that “The framers left open a path to amendment that doesn’t require the approval of Congress – a convention, which must be convened if two-thirds of the states apply for it…”

I would add two things to that mix: 1) Making bribery of public officials… I mean, corporate campaign contributions to public officials illegal, and; 2) impeaching members of the U.S. Supreme Court (all 5 of them, including the three who elected George W. Bush President of the United States) whose actions are clearly and obviously designed not to uphold our Constitution, but rather to promote corporate interests.

David Swanson has an excellent discussion of this issue in his book, “Daybreak – Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union”, in a chapter titled “Spreading Democracy to Washington DC”, especially in a section titled “Clean Campaign Financing”. Here are some highlights:

If we could eliminate the media expenses, we could afford to provide public financing that candidates would accept. So, rather than just trying to eliminate dirty revenue, we need to focus as well on eliminating dirty expenditures… And there’s no reason we can’t do it, since we already own the airwaves and give them away to the media companies…

Any system in which campaigns are largely determined by the spending of money is going to forever find loopholes to squeeze more money through… We need free media and public financing, but ultimately we need something else as well. We need to ban private financing of public elections. The Supreme Court’s definition of money as speech in Buckley v. Valeo must ultimately be overturned (Swanson’s book was published before the more recent USSC outrage noted above).

Thom Hartmann focuses more generally on our incipient fascism:

Our government – elected by human citizen voters – can shake off the past thirty years of exploding corporatism and throw the corporate agents and buyers of influence out of the hallowed halls of Congress. We can restore the stolen human rights to humans, and keep corporate activity constrained… The path to doing this is straightforward, and being taken now across America… Once again in America, we must do what Jefferson always hoped we would: “the people being the only safe depository of power, should exercise in person every function which their qualifications enable them to exercise…” We must seize the moment to take back the power, for our children and our children’s children.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. "One might also ask how much money did the Obama campaign receive from them."
"Obama received $20 million from healthcare industry in 2008 campaign"

Why do people continue pushing this bogus statistic?



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why do you believe that's bogus?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's being cited to give the impression that Obama raised money from the health industry.
The fact is that he raised that money through individual contributions.

The article you linked to goes on to state that Obama raised "nearly three times the amount of his presidential rival John McCain."

Is this supposed to show that McCain would have been better at reforming the health care system? Bogus. The fact is that McCain took PAC money nearly $1.5 million.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. More specifically, from the Center for Responsive Politics
Currently, the Center's website shows that Obama received $19,462,986 from the health sector, which includes health professionals ($11.7m), health services/HMOs ($1.4m), hospitals/nursing homes ($3.3m) and pharmaceuticals/health products ($2.1m). Miscellaneous health donations (from which Obama received $860,411) are also factored into the current total health sector numbers but are not accessible on the site.

Health insurance industry contributions, however, are not included within the Center's current health sector totals. Rather, contributions from the health insurance industry are contained within the site's finance and insurance sector. Seeking a more complete total, the Center culled health and accident insurance donations from this sector (for which Obama received $712,317) and combined them with his existing health sector total ($19,462,986) to arrive at his healthcare industry total ($20,175,303).

The Center employed the same methodology in its analysis for John McCain and based all of its findings on the latest data released by the Federal Election Commission.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/01/12-9

Most of the categories noted above sound like they are definitely not from individuals. The only one that sounds like it came partly from individuals was the category "health care professionals", which was a combination of individual contributions of $200 or more and PACs.

I don't know where you get that the intention was to show that McCain would have been better at reforming health care. I don't believe that at all. McCain had no plan at all for health care reform, and I posted about that a number of times during the primary season. Obama's plan sounded much better, but he delivered much less than he promised.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. CREW is usually pretty reliable. I'd have to trust it. nt
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Where is the proof, one way or tuther? Should be easy to prove or disprove. Give us a link. nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Center for Responsive Politics
Our good friends at Raw Story published the information:



Obama received $20 million from healthcare industry in 2008 campaign

By Brad Jacobson
Tuesday, January 12th, 2010 -- 10:01 am
Raw Story

EXCERPT...

A new figure, based on an exclusive analysis created for Raw Story by the Center for Responsive Politics, shows that President Obama received a staggering $20,175,303 from the healthcare industry during the 2008 election cycle, nearly three times the amount of his presidential rival John McCain. McCain took in $7,758,289, the Center found.

SNIP...

The new figure, based on an exclusive analysis created for Raw Story by the Center for Responsive Politics, shows that President Obama received a staggering $20,175,303 from the healthcare industry during the 2008 election cycle, nearly three times the amount of his presidential rival John McCain. McCain took in $7,758,289, the Center found.

The new figure, obtained by Raw Story through an independent custom research request performed by the Center for Responsive Politics -- a nonprofit, nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics -- is the most comprehensive breakdown yet available of healthcare industry contributions to Obama during the 2008 election cycle.

Currently, the Center's website shows that Obama received $19,462,986 from the health sector, which includes health professionals ($11.7m), health services/HMOs ($1.4m), hospitals/nursing homes ($3.3m) and pharmaceuticals/health products ($2.1m). Miscellaneous health donations (from which Obama received $860,411) are also factored into the current total health sector numbers but are not accessible on the site.

CONTINUED... http://rawstory.com/2010/01/obama-received-20-million-healthcare-industry-money-2008/



BTW: CRP is non-partisan.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thank you. I am negligent in not seeing it in the OP. nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. The link is in the OP
I did not cite the figure in the OP, but I did include a link on it:
http://rawstory.com/2010/01/obama-received-20-million-healthcare-industry-money-2008/
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It is and i missed it. I beg your pardon. nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. It was confusing because the first poster quoted that figure as if I had quoted it in the OP
Whereas in fact, the figure that he quoted came from my the link in the OP -- which he nevertheless claimed was bogus.
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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. You got yours ProSense, you have bucks
You got yours.

We get it.
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bkozumplik Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. prosense..
I think you are single handedly about half of the status quo defense on this site.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. There is a simple solution.
Term Limits. Congress 6 years max. Senate 6 years. President 6 years.
Federal financing of all federal elections. No private funds. Period. Rather than being totally consumed with raising funds for their next election, perhaps they could actually do something constructive. No lobbying for ten years.

If you believe that Congress would enact these common sense rules then you are brain dead. Their sole purpose is to stay in power long enough to become rich. It could only be enacted if the citizens demanded it and I wouldn't hold my breath. I hate to be so cynical, but the people have got the government that they deserve. The way things are going, I wouldn't be too damn surprised to see Sara Palin running in 2012.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the post. But...and I havent read the article yet. On my desk now.
But...when recommending solutions, saying to have citizen's funded elections isnt helpful. That's no better than saying Congress-critters should have shame. Under solutions we need to know what can be done. Specifically. Some have tried for decades to get citizen's funded elections. It aint gona happen. The ones in charge of the laws wont allow it. So someone please tell me what our options are. Specifically. I love Hartmann, his solution is for citizens to get active. I have been "active" I have seen how the Democratic Machine works, and it is very hard for mere citizens to influence. Millions of us "got active" and we got Obama elected only to be rudely dismissed later. We thought we were a power, truth was we were used. I personally dont see a solution.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. As you know, this is a very complicated issue
Advocating citizen funded elections is similar to saying taxpayer funded elections. Election campaigns are an essential aspect of our democracy -- One could argue that they are as important as public education, health care, or a number of other essential services that a majority of Americans believe should be publicly funded.

As long as candidates for public office are dependent upon corporate money for their election campaigns they will be inclined to favor corporations and the wealthy over average citizens. So it is an extremely important issue.

It is not at all the same thing as saying that Congress critters should have shame -- which is not something that can be legislated. Citizen (taxpayer)-funded elections can be legislated.

People also said for decades that we would not have legislation that effectively required civil rights for all Americans irrespective of race or voting rights for black people in the South. Yet with intensive pushing we got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We still have a long way to go, but these were landmark legislative victories that made a huge difference. One might say that it took a hundred years for that legislation to come to fruition.

Maybe publicly funded elections "ain't gonna happen", as you say. Maybe it ain't gonna happen in our lifetime. But it certainly seems to me as one of the better ideas for taking the money out of politics, and one worth pursuing.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. Thank you for your patient response. I can see that I failed badly to make my point (lazy).
When someone says we need public funded elections, I agree. But just saying that over and over isn’t effective. We should have a lot of things, like Congress-critters capable of shame, and world peace.

We may be able to hound Congress into passing civil rights legislation, health care reform, and maybe even ending some wars, but getting Congress to fix Congress seems to me to be impossible. For example, we elect Congress-critters that promise to limit their own terms and they renege. We force Congress to pass laws that put limits on themselves only to turn around and find the laws are undone.

I agree that our democracy is broken. I have read many books and articles explaining in detail how it is broken. Some of these books give goals, but none that I have read, give a strategy or tactics. We know what we need fixed. Public funded elections as one example. But what we need now is a recipe on how to fix it.

I want to see someone working on a strategy with tactics for fixing our democracy. For example we desperately need a propaganda machine. If we cant get a good share of the public helping, we are lost from the start.

When I said that public funded elections “aint gona happen”, I was overreacting. But I do not see any way to get Congress to fix itself.

Looks to me like Democracy is its own worst enemy.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. I believe that when enough of the American people understand what is happening and are dissatisfied
enough with it, they will pressure Congress to fix itself. Most Congresspersons will not do it willingly, of course, but what chance will they have when the people demand it? There were many powerful interests that were threatened by Civil Rights reform, Social Security, Medicare, and much other landmark legislation.

The Voting Rights Act of 1965 can be seen as legislation that was a direct affront to much of Congress (and an effort to "fix" Congress) in that it opened the door to a new class of voters. Before that, voting rights were expanded over and over again, first going to propertyless white males, later to women, and then 18 year olds. These were all grassroots stimulated reforms.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Professor Bertram Gross was on to their gangster asses in 1980...
...when he published Friendly Fascism: The New Face of Power in America.

From the later, paperback edition Introduction:

"Ronald Reagan must be the nicest president who ever destroyed a union, tried to cut school lunch milk rations from six to four ounces, and compelled families in need of public help to first dispose of household goods in excess of $1,000...1f there is an authoritarian regime in the American future, Ronald Reagan is tailored to the image of a friendly fascist." -- economist Robert Lekachman

It is awful that so many people don't see what has -- and is -- happening.
The real shame is in those who do and, yet, refuse to do anything about it.

Thank you for another outstanding post, Time for change. KR&B.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thank you Octafish -- "Friendly Fascism"
I guess that sums up the Reagan administration pretty well. And our corporate media continues to treat him with great respect, despite all the evidence of how much harm his presidency did to our nation :(.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. Big K & R !!!
:kick:
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Time to start over and give socialism a try.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. just stop giving 10% minority 1000 uncontested radio stations- the biggest soapbox ever,
and democracy will fix the rest. maybe not easily or quickly but for the lef to keep wasting time analyzing and strategizing while the likes of limbaugh and hannity and teh treabaggers they misinformed to keep getting a free speech free ride without picketing those stations is the extreme stupidity of all of this.

much of what progressives complain is missing, the reforms the left has been working on for years, get trashed all day from 1000 UNCONTESTED radio stations. their candidates are swiftboated and no one gets their backs. the left collectively is incredibly stupid to keep allowing their local RW radio stations to keep attacking their causes and candidates and doing global warming denial and lying us into iraq and making single payer unacceptable without picketing those stations. they launder corporate talking points all day from stations using public airwaves licensed to operate in the public interest and NOTHING in response except an occasional calling out of the main blowhards for stretching a limit. they get a free speech free ride and no free speech response.

everything progressives want to do will be twice as possible if the left finallly stopped ignoring the talk radio monopoly that has been punking them and making bipartisanship and democracy impossible since reagan killed the fairness doctrine 20 yrs ago.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yes, media monopoly is a big part of the problem --
Not just radio, but TV and print news as well.

Not only do we need to bring back the Fairness Doctrine, but we need to reverse the Telecommunications Act of 1996 as well, in order to break up the monopolies that wealthy corporations have on the news.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. but i would say the radio monopoly is at the root of the media problem
no other medium can create like the RW talk radio can. no other medium has the coordinated repetition that is never challenged, or even noticed by those adversely effected, until it is already established and appears in the rest of the media. there is no bigger PC cop or censor-by-threat. no other medium has more say in what is and what isn't 'acceptable' in the mainstream.

print and tv still have some competition going and can't do the repetition possible with radio. the visible media can't pound the same talking points. instead, they reinforce the talking points after limbaugh and hannity and spawn have already done the heavy lifting. fox, for instance , is visual reinforcement of talk radio - a ot of their crap can't stand on its own. the teabaggers were educated first with years of talk radio, fox could not have turned kerry into a flip flopping coward and a deserter into a commander in chief, or turned the democratic party into the 'democrat' party.

without long term monitoring of talk radio to see the patterns most media analysis seems to happen in a talk radio vacuum, without consideration of that dominating invisible force.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
50. I will second that.
If the progressives were serious they could shut the bastards down within a month by a massive boycott of their sponsors. That is the only thing that the corps care about; MONEY.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. boycotts and picketing of RW radio will end 20 yrs of RW media domination nt
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. Sad, and true.
K&R
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
22. Late night K&R, and bookmarking for later reading. I know ...
... it will be good!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. Thank you
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. You have framed this well...a must read.
But we are so dispirited that this now all seems imposable to change....the ones that make the laws will not change the laws because it means big bucks to them and power.

And it is all about organizations...they have organized themselves around money...they reward the faithful with it and punish the doubters.
If you are an ambitious young person you know the path to wealth and power, they make it clear to you right from the start....you what to git along go along.
And so they provide a path for the greedy and ruthless to the top and from that point on they rule.

Our side is not organized on anything tangible. And it is so easy to divide us into separate groups fighting for a single interest.

And so I am doubtful that I will ever see meaningful change in my lifetime...I am 66 so that is not as long as it is for the younger ones....and it is on them that I place my hope.
The young folks must take up the task of changing this system...they need to come together, perhaps a leader like Thom Hartman or DK and take it back at the local level.
There are a few of us old fogies that would support them.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. I'm in much the same boat as you
I recently turned 60.

I guess it has always been true that the greedy and ruthless do whatever they can to retain their wealth and power. And they succeed up to a point -- the point at which the rest of the population recognizes what is going on and is dissatisfied enough with it that they have the will to take risks to change it.

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R. American style Weimar Republic
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. We are more of a Plutocracy than a Democracy nowadays.
I move that we abolish our current form of government and become a Grand Duchy instead.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. It is not in our leaderships benefit to change the status quo
I don't see change coming through them.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. It is rarely to the benefit of the leadership to change the status quo
That is why meaningful reform usually comes from the bottom. When people understand how they are getting screwed they rise up and demand change. It's happened throughout history.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. This I am still waiting for
Although not on the sidelines. I'm quite an active participant-
just not sure why it's taking so long for the rest of the people to
demand such change. Getting ready to partake in http://peaceoftheaction.org/
this March.

PS- my mother loves your writing (me too) so I just gave you a heart for mom


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Thank you --
And give my thanks to your mom.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
29. K&R . //nt
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
31. excellent post. Thank you. I'm ready to work for the people's convention, because
it's pretty clear that this Congress and probably future ones are corrupt.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R. nt
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
34. K & R
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. Somehow we need to re-think how we vote our politicians

We need to get the money out of the campaigns. Bring back government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Perhaps select our Representatives and Senators by jury-lottery. Everyone's social security number is in the lottery (similar to PowerBall). Balls are selected from each of 9 containers. The 1st ball is the 1st digit of the SS#...9th ball is the 9th digit of SS#. This will give a random pool of SS numbers to select the candidate. Specific criteria could be used to discard potential candidates, such as too young, too old, moved, sick, died, etc. Eventually, the candidate is chosen and serves for the position he/she was selected for.

This would be a long drawn out process. It wouldn't happen in my lifetime, maybe in my kids, hopefully during my little grandbabies lifetime.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Yes, get the money out of campaigns -- Make bribery of public officials illegal
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
36. Auto K&R.
I'm glad I caught this one, thank you.


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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. As for political leaders that talk about "broken systems" and reform
only to backtrack or half-step at best, maybe some cognitive dissonance is in play in addition to the financial rewards and powerful political pressures not to rock the boat.

It seems to me that if you run on the system being broken and then end up being elected to power, that would cause some emotional/psychological conflict.

I would give one warning to any candidate running on the broken system premise, if you do become elected and obtain power, it doesn't mean the system suddenly isn't broken.

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Time for change.:thumbsup:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Yeah, that's getting very tiresome -- and all too common
I'm hoping that someone like Feingold will run in 2012
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. Another spot-on post. Thank you, Time for change. Too late to rec. nt
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
47. K&R
great post!
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
48. We have a governmental system which relies on a majority being men of good will
What we actually have is a Congress populated by venal, self-serving individuals who must be fired. If we don't have the resolve to fire them, then we are getting what we deserve as a nation.

Just stop for a minute and reflect. Why must America have military bases in over a hundred more countries than the next most imperialistic country? Why must America spend more on military than the rest of the world combined? Are there any "American Principles" that are realized in today's America? Why have we accepted war crimes on the part of our leaders? Why can't our healthcare system be among the worlds 20 best? Why has the cost of Education so far outpaced wages? Why has the cost of Health Care so far outpaced wages? Why has the cost of CEO salaries so far outpaced the performance of corporations to the benefit of our country as a whole? Did our government come into existence for the greatest benefit to the smallest percentage in the history of humanity? It's our country, what do We the People want?

It's time we just look at what Congress has allowed us to become. If We the People are not as bad as America is acting, why don't We fire Congress. We have been debating bullshit, while our country has been nearly lost. Will we keep doing things the same way until America is unfixable, or will we use results based accounting for Congress and fire their unpatriotic asses, and replace them with public servants?
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