Sarah Palin embodies a trait that many Americans possess... and I believe she might take power

[TwixVoy]

Sarah Palin embodies a trait that many Americans possess..... namely what I have noticed over the past 10-20 years a growing trend in hate for all things intellectual.

I have noticed that many Americans tend to despise people who are intelligent while respecting those who are complete morons. This is particularly a right wing characteristic, but I have also noticed it in some aspects of the left as well.

I believe this is why bush obtained so much support from the right wing. This is also why Palin is getting so much attention. The right wing loves the fact that she is an idiot.... because they can relate to that.

I see all these threads asking "Why is she getting attention? She's an idiot"..... Well it's *because* she's an idiot that she is getting this attention.

Americans don't want to think. They like to watch American Idol and 5 minute "news" clips to consider themselves informed. They don't want to hear anything too complex they would have to think about. Palin breaks thing down in to moron sound bites which is exactly what they have been conditioned to enjoy. They want simple sounding "ideas" that (even though break down rapidly when actually thought about) sound good on face.

This is why she is particularly dangerous. She feeds on the conditioning most Americans have experienced for the past 20 years.

My only advice is to NOT underestimate the anti-independent thought most Americans have been conditioned to enjoy. It is a powerful weapon of the right wing, and it is incredibly difficult to fight against.

[MineralMan]

1. More Palin Posts! We Demand More Palin Posts!

We won't rest until the entire first page of Latest Posts is all Palin.

[Bluebear]

5. This poster is bringing up an excellent discussion point.

[liberal N proud]

9. It's Sarah Palin day here on DU

This too will pass, just as all things that get blown out of proportion here. It is Palin's turn to be the DU Obsession.

Now, I do worry that the GOP will put her in the candidacy in 2012 and that the American voter is stupid enough to giver enough votes to win or at least for the GOP to steal.

We need to pay a little attention to this moron, besides her stupidity is a little entertaining in the fact that she demonstrates that there are people dumb enough to follow her.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

12. Ain't that the truth...

Progressives need her as their foil and she's an easy target. It's just that simple.

[Bluebear]

14. 'Progressives need her as their foil and she's an easy target.' - Whaaa?

[Justpat]

51. Say what?

That's a joke, right?



:shrug:

[PerpetuallyDazed]

110. Is that funny to you...?

We pick on her because she's an easy target. Rather than Progressives standing on their own ideals, we use her to make ourselves look better by calling attention to her ridiculousness. She should be irrelevant by now but we're just making her even more popular.

[peggygirl]

49. And they sure hate "intelligent" or "intellectual" blacks. nt

[HipChick]

2. As long as neither a Republican or Dem or M$M is refuting anything she's spouting..

The idiot will continue to reflect how shallow a nation we are..

[WildEyedLiberal]

3. You're describing teabaggers, not "Americans"

And what is with people equating American Idol with slobbering idiocy? God damn it, and I HATE American Idol, but I'm sick of the casual cliched shorthand that equates American Idol with all things brainless. You do realize American Idol is a Brit import, right, and not some uniquely American expression of opiate for the masses?

The first half of your OP is fine, and you make an astute point about Sarah Palin's popularity, but then your pointless stereotyping in the last half ruins the whole thing.

[Fumesucker]

11. You could substitute Facebook for American Idol..

Or the NFL or Desperate Housewives or Twitter or any number of current pop culture trends.

The only other person in my own family that isn't consumed with some pop culture trend or other is my brother and we are both in our late fifties. Trying to talk to the rest of them about anything remotely serious is worse than a waste of time, I can almost literally see their eyes glaze over.

It's frustrating and scary when people you know are intelligent act like brainwashed zombies.

[WildEyedLiberal]

31. I think the idea that anyone who engages in 'pop culture trends' is a zombie is garbage

Of course some people are as you describe, who only care about celebrity gossip in magazines like Us Weekly or whatever. But what I found grating about the OP is the idea that people who watch "American Idol" - or football, or Desperate Housewives, or who go to sites like Facebook or Twitter - are automatically incapable of anything deeper. Not everyone wants to spend their days reading Proust and discussing game theory. Not *exclusively*, anyway. I know several very intelligent people who follow politics and are capable of deep discussions who also like American Idol. What's wrong with that? I'm just tired of the "oh God, no one but lobotomized zombies watches/reads that" crap. It's condescending.

I actually hate most of the things you mentioned, too, but not because I think hating them makes me smarter or better than other people.

[Fumesucker]

45. Like I said, I try to engage on any number of serious subjects and not only do they know nothing..

They don't want to know and will get angry and defensive if you try to talk about where our culture is going, what our very real problems are and so on. I actually think a lot of them are scared and loath to admit it even to themselves.

And these are people that often have considerably more formal education than I have.

I'm terrified for my grandchildren's future and, other than one family member, the only place can vent and share my concerns is online. I find that really disturbing.

[trotsky]

96. No, there are plenty of liberals who embrace anti-intellectualism too.

The anti-vax movement, for instance.

[Fumesucker]

4. If you don't like thinking then people who do and are good at it are intensely threatening..

I see it in my own family, none of them are stupid but there is only one that I can communicate with on other than a superficial level and that is my brother, all the rest are into TV shows or facebook or NASCAR or some other form of popular culture that actively discourages any sort of deep thinking at all.

It's very discouraging.

[DeschutesRiver]

60. Mine too

Except some of them really are stupid. And mine were threatened by such things far more than I was willing to admit, even as I ignored stuff for years along this line.

My dh decided that he wanted to build a house for us. My blue collar dad had built a house while working as a fireman, so it didn't seem that wierd to me for us to try. DH has a construction/engineering bent, and had already built barns, outbuildings, and engineered quite a few designs for things to use on our ranch.

But dh is a lawyer by profession (as am I, dear old dad's only daughter). And when dh got about 3 months into building the house, dad called and asked dh how the house was going, if he needed any advice, etc. So dh asked him his question of the day, about whether it would be helpful to put some wiring in conduit in a partially outside area (the answer is yep, dh knew it, but wanted to make dad feel good about being asked).

And my dad just blew up. Told dh things that made me have a moment of clarity about education/smarts and those with less, even if they are family. Lost his temper and told dh that if he didn't know somthing as basic as that, he was a god damned idiot. Fancy pants Mr. Lawyer, thinks building homes are easy because hard working blue collar guys do it, but it is harder than you think - you will fail doing this and it serves you right. Ended with telling my dh in a shout that even though he thought he was smart because he had a law degree, he actually didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. If I told you all the ugly things said, I'd get upset to this day. To his everlasting credit, dh never even once raised his voice or said anything cutting in return, but he actually teared up afterwards, saying he never knew my dad felt that way about him.

And there were other fairly mean calls made subsequently - the basic drift was that people who "think" can't have other skills, or rather they better keep their noses out of such things and hire fellow blue collar folk to get them done. All this from my dad, who isn't the one known for having a temper or saying much at all. So it was deep - I knew my mom felt this way, because she is a talker. But I didn't see it coming from my dad. And all this, even though they have a daughter who thinks, went to law school, and never quit working with her back and her hands on her farms/ranches over the years, just like she did at home as a kid. Only place I didn't look like a muck bucket was in the courtroom:)

We'd been married over 25 years at that point, and I had inklings that even me being the first in my family to go to college (paid for myself with jobs) and then law school both made them very proud, but very uncomfortable. Dh finished the house so well that everyone thinks we hired a builder for the whole project (did do subs where we felt too unskilled).

It was a last straw that resulted in a permanent estrangement. Which is actually fine, as this wasn't the only issue I've ever had with these people, and my interests in life from a young age branded me as an outcast. The only thing I am envious of is people with parents that love them unconditionally, even if their interests are different or they are smarter than their folks (or dumber), or they pursue higher education - isn't that supposed to be what parents want for their kids?

So anyway, the threat they feel is real to people like this, and it is big, and deep enough to cause problems even in their families. I don't understand this at all. Bill Gates is so much smarter than me, but I don't hate him for it or resent it. Why? I think it is cool that a smart person invented something I can use. Heck, my vet is smarter than me about veterinary medicine; and my doctors are smarter than me about their specialities. Isn't this just a "well, duh?" kind of thing? I don't get the threat at all, not even having been on the receiving end for years of that message being delivered to me by people I once loved.

[Fumesucker]

65. Interesting story.. Thanks for sharing

It's sad that your family has had such a deep division over something that really shouldn't be that much of an issue.

:hug:

[DeschutesRiver]

76. Completely agree - and it is so very sad. nt

[Hannah Bell]

87. if bill gates were part of your immediate family, you might be more threatened by him.

especially if there was even a hint of condescension in his attitude toward you.

and i'd guess there would be, because bill gates is a rich asshole from an already privileged background, & he didn't get where he is on his smarts.

[mainer]

101. I love learning from the smart members of my family

I'd be thrilled if Bill Gates were a member of mine.

Whenever I'm at parties or gatherings, I want to be near people who have something interesting to share or teach. I can't imagine feeling threatened by it.

[DeschutesRiver]

113. Wish it was that simple

My parents never got past 8th grade, but they had a very good life, were responsible people. My dad used to be the kind of guy who didn't envy anyone anything, and I used to admire that. My mom has always had problems, and this education/smart thing is one of them. She is actually a smart woman (my dad not so much), and had she gone further in her education, she would have done well. That is probably behind part of this. I remember being told "oh you think you are so smart" and much much more in that vein, as an 8 year old, because I called her to pick me up from school one day and she was annoyed. It was because it was the last day and I had checked out dozens of books from the bookmobile on a summer loan basis, and I couldn't carry them. I am pretty sure that as a kid, I couldn't have been terribly condescending about trying to get my books home, but maybe it annoyed her more than I knew that I wanted to read something every evening.

My immediate family was working class, but we have other family members who have higher ed. In fact, my dad's favorite cousin from OK is an attorney, whom he just adored - she is a really cool lady. But I never met her until I left home, because my mom ended up isolating us from anyone in the family like that, including relatives of hers from Canada (school administrators, etc). Eventually, we never saw any relatives at all while I was growing up. My mom was jealous of/angry with anyone who was smart and had an education, and as the years progressed, my dad followed lockstep with her until he had pretty much the same attitude. They've been married over 60 years, and it is almost like a Stockholm Syndrome now - whatever she thinks, he agrees with. I've met some other family members now, and they are smart, educated and really nice people - haven't found an asshole yet. Just regrets that we never had a relationship sooner.

I used Gates (who I don't know) as an example, mostly because I am using a windows product at the moment so he came to mind, but I actually know a lot of people smarter than me who are nice and not condescending at all. When I practiced law, I also ran into smart assholes, some way smarter than me, but they weren't anything to be jealous of in the least. OTOH, had an aunt who didn't have a pot to piss in, but that woman was insufferably nasty because she'd finally gotten out of a trailer into an 800 sf home, and now was "rich" enough to have two sets of drapes from JC Pennys, one for summer, one for winter, and she honestly thought that made her better than the rest of the family. She lacked money and education and intelligence, but had the attitude of which you speak.

I think it depends solely on the quality of a person's character - you can find unpleasant people in all walks of life. I've lived in or around or done business with people from any social class you can imagine, and it is what I've found to be true.

[Shining Jack]

92. "he never knew my dad felt that way about him."

How sad.:(
I like having conversations with people smarter than me,heck I love to learn.

[DeschutesRiver]

114. Yeah, that really cut deep in me

He was really excited about talking to dad about how his house building adventure was coming along, but we were trying to be careful too. My dad was in his late 70s, still scary active - he'd put a new roof on his barn himself (retired firefighter and no fear of heights), then tried to patch the house roof, and slid off and down the ladder on his back, requiring surgeries. So we wanted him involved (because he does know a lot of stuff about building) but worried that he'd insist on physically doing things that might be beyond him right then. Dh was the one who thought maybe asking for advice over the phone would be a way to involve him but keep him safe. He had several things to ask about, but it never got that far. My man has a sensitive side that he isn't afraid of, but he is very good at rolling with the punches. Words were spoken that could never be taken back.

So while we knew my mom could be an issue, that was the first time my dad had done anything extreme like that to my dh, and while I was used to having a dysfunctional family, I'd kept some of it from him so long as everyone was getting along (in a walking on eggshells kind of way) - why rehash stuff that is old, you know? But I wish I'd prepared him better for just how mean it could get - I guess I had hoped that age had mellowed them.

I too love love to learn things, and have found that in every area of life, there are always people who know more than me or are more naturally skilled than me at doing X, and I cherish those conversations with them where a lightbulb goes off and I learn something I never knew before - still like that in my fifties. People who are willing to share their knowledge are a treasure.

[mainer]

100. That is a really sad story. I'm sorry for you and your dh.

I was lucky enough to have blue-collar parents who were thrilled that I went to college and couldn't stop praising me for what I managed to do.

I think it's also a cultural thing. I've noticed that Jewish and Asian parents always want their children to achieve more than they did, and they revel in their children's achievements. It has to do with a respect for education in those particular cultures.

[DeschutesRiver]

115. I've notice that with my asian/jewish friends and their families

it is a wonderful thing. Their accomplishments are celebrated and discussed with pride - I wonder why other cultures, like the one I grew up in, so easily fall into resentment of such things?

It is a poisonous, ruinous attitude, and every time I see those tea party people and Palin, all I know for sure is that it is a real attitude for some people. Even with their own families, as I know from my own experience. I actually know that in their own way, my folks do love me, but at least on mom's part, I wasn't one of them and it just made her crazy at times.

It will be a mystery to me for the ages of why this is so - I actually changed my under grad major from history to psych when I was in college, thinking partly it might help me better understand my parents and a lot of other attitudes they held (racism, for one)when I was kid. I had the foolish optimism of youth about how I could fix the past and change the world back then:) That might have been too ambitious a goal, as it turned out, but it was worth trying, and I learned much from the process.

[Lorien]

6. We have a well educated President. He should be taking the lead in promoting

education and intellectual curiosity. Of course, the media is doing their part to dumb us all down. Call them on it; write to stations and advertisers to condemn "lowest common denominator" programming and ask that they be inclusive of those who are well educated and intellectually curious.

[Tim01]

44. All of the intellectuals gushed about how awsome Obama was going to be.

Because he is so smart.

At this point, I would take a leader over an intellectual.

I guess pharmaceutical companies love intellectuals.

[marshall]

58. Obama represents intellectual thought over the past 30 or so years

The ideas he wants to implement have been developing in our universities since the late sixties. No one to this point has been in a position to bring them to fruition. After the debacle that was our last presidency, the voting public was finally willing to give it a try.

[Tim01]

61. Ah, so he's one of them.

So, this will be a little experiment on what kind of a leader they make. 30 years, huh?

[marshall]

120. I'd say he is one of us

Speaking for myself, I am glad to have somebody finally in a position to enact what up to this point has just been our dream.

[HughBeaumont]

85. Problem is, all the education in the world isn't going to matter . . . .

. . . if there's no job market to make use of it.

Corporate America's insane lust for profiteering is putting the kibosh on progress and rendering the college/university route useless. The upward wealth transfer shows no signs of stopping and a whole hell of a lot of people were sadly mistaken in thinking these losers would be more benevolent if we gave them more and more privilege and tax dollars. They're not creating jobs and are leaving it up to our non-capitalized selves to invent/start up our way out of this mess.

All that's going to lead to is a glut of overedcuated and vastly underemployed workers over here, a continuingly exploited workforce overseas performing the technologies and careers that are supposed to be saving us, and a solidification in the wealth-vs-90%er income gap.

The Reagan/Friedman way has to STOP. Someone needs to get the ear of our leaders and beat it into them that job creation has been a fat goose egg for ten years straight. That's on the private sector.

[AwakeAtLast]

7. On many occasions I have been given the backhanded compliment

that I use too many "big words". And I don't really think my vocabulary is all that high. All I know is that I have heard that phrase many times.

[Lorien]

13. Heheh, I was told to shrink my vocabulary to make my coworkers "more comfortable"

when I worked for a large corporation years ago. My boss told me that the "big words" that I used in daily conversation made me appear arrogant and standoffish, which caused resentment from my peers. Actually, I didn't think that my vocabulary was very broad to begin with either. And as for my peers? There were only two male freeper types that he could have been referring to, but like most Freepers those two were very vocal and would throw an almighty fit if they didn't get their way.

[MrMickeysMom]

72. I mean, how big could they have been to put off people? (!)

I don't understand it... can it really be?

I guess I understand that when speaking in public, "brevity is wit", and "if it can be said in more simple words, it will appeal to more people", but when it comes to every day conversation or dialog, what is an example of what you were saying?

(I know, can you tell, I just don't want to believe we're turning into the movie, "Idiocracy")

[Lorien]

79. Well, a word like "brevity" would be in that class I suspect

I remember saying in a meeting "I think the script gets a bit long on exposition during that sequence" at one time and they (the good ol' boys) just stared at me blankly and then looked pissed off because they didn't know whether to agree or disagree. Another time we were talking about a neighborhood that one of our coworkers had purchased a home in and I said "It seems like a good investment. The neighborhoods all around it are apparently going through quite a bit of gentrification." and one of the guys said ""gentrification"? What the fuck is that? Talk like a human being for Christ's sake." Another time I mentioned to one of them that I was looking for the incandescent bulbs but only found fluorescents, and he said "what's "incandescent"? It's just a lightbulb, ain't it?" That's just a few samples that come to mind.

[MrMickeysMom]

94. Oooohhhh-kayeeeee....

I think I get the picture now.

I used to get this kind of reaction at work, but instead of the crass answers you describe, I'd get a somewhat sheepish request to "put it in plain English".

What you describe is the obnoxious stuff I'd imagine coming from Palin's extended family... Comfortable in their own stupidity, over-confident in their illusion of wisdom and trying to beat up "nerdy" kids in school.

[Lorien]

116. Well, the guys in question are indeed Palin fans!

we no longer work together, but I did check their Facebook info pages. Yep; "Friends of Sarah Palin." . Proudly ignorant bullies. x(

[pipi_k]

108. Talk like a human being!!!!

yeah, I hear ground squirrels and woodpeckers using those damned big words all the time... :D


I actually like the word "gentrification", and it probably is truly the simplest way to describe what happens when the socio-cultural environment in a particular area changes because wealthier people buy housing property in a less prosperous community.

One word as opposed to almost 20...

works for me...

:)

[Lorien]

118. "one word as opposed to 20" exactly!

Those words don't exist just to make a handful of people feel erudite. It's all about brevity and accuracy.

[Mopar151]

105. Sometimes, I have to tell 'em

"Sorry, I ate a dictionary last week!" I'm a big guy, who looks kind of country, and it seems to disarm any resentment.

[Mopar151]

104. I was a foreman in a machine shop

And it was the HR manager - a college grad - who never got the big words or technical references when I wrote evaluations. The guys in the shop would occasionally ask a question about a fine point about the definition of a word, but we worked in learning trades - They were used to pickin' up things on the fly. It got really crazy when we were supposed to do our own job descriptions - the "templates" came from IPA, and had lots of high-sounding gibberish - which my boys saw right through - and HR PUT THE GIBBERISH BACK IN after we submitted the finished descriptions.
Anti- intellectualisim is everywhere - in this case, from someone trying to corral a bunch of eggheads from an inferior intellectual base.

[newspeak]

135. well, a person with curiosity

would've probably nodded their head, secretly written the word down and checked the old "Funk and Wagnalls." Because, that's what I have done when faced with a word I did not recognize or did not know the full meaning.

[leftstreet]

8. Inking themselves n/t

[Bluebear]

10. The "elites" have been demonized by the right wing as anyone with a brain.

The nation used to aspire towards education, now it's regarded with suspicion because of the right-wing manipulation. Your post is extremely important, anybody ignores Palin and her vapid ilk at their own peril.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

111. Respectfully, I think the mass of uninformed folks just don't care about politics...

Palinites are just a loud minority.

[Kablooie]

133. Sounds like Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution. Coming to a neighborhood near you!

[gateley]

15. Yes. Hate = Fear, and they whip up fear frenzies like bartenders

whip up Margaritas.

[cali]

16. there is absolutely nothing new about this. nothing at all

and anyone familiar with Adlai's runs knows it- not that the strong current of anti-intellectualism so pervasive in this country doesn't far pre-date that.

[MilesColtrane]

93. I find it weird that artists and intellectuals get it in the shorts from both sides.

Here, especially during the fifties, they were pinkos, and blacklisted.

Yet the Khmer Rouge, and Mao purged them for being capitalist sympathizers.

There's nothing so threatening to those in power as independent thought and expression.

[DeschutesRiver]

117. That is a good point.

Certain powers in our society right now doesn't seem to want people to use any independent thinking, and this "backlash" aims to silence or ostracize those who would think. Because thinkers tend to be question askers, don't they?

And on the other end of the spectrum, you have the Palin/TP types who believe everyone who knows how to think or is more educated or is intellectual is actually up to some kind of trick or is "just using big words that make no sense to pretend like they are smarter than us". They can't follow what is being said, and don't understand explanations that even given to them in plain English; yet the fault lies not with them but with the "others" who are saying the things they cannot understand. I remember reading some Freeper comments about how inarticulate and stupid Obama is when he gives a speech, ie "I couldn't understand a word that idiot was saying - he is just so stupid that he makes no sense."

I mean honestly, people are free to disagree with what Obama says, but how can they listen and call him an inarticulate, stupid man whose speeches can't be listened to because they make no sense?

[WeDidIt]

17. Idiocracy coming to a nation near you

Sad that a fucking comendy movie is proving to be prophetic.

[mainer]

18. Most Americans have never been out of the country.

That says it all. A lack of curiosity, a fear of the unknown, and a fear of the new.

[WildEyedLiberal]

41. It couldn't possibly be because international travel is expensive

What a perfect example of the kind of condescending elitist bullshit that engenders resentment against "intellectuals." It never occurs to you even ONCE that most working stiffs are living paycheck-to-paycheck and don't have a few thousand dollars lying around for a splurge trip to Europe. And then you wonder why the "average Joes" think "intellectuals" are out of touch - because you call them stupid and incurious for the audacity of being poor.

[mainer]

46. Mexico? Canada? All it takes is a drive.

Most Americans don't even have passports, a fact that astonishes every European I've ever met.

Almost EVERYONE in the UK, rich or poor, has at least been for a visit across the Channel.

[WildEyedLiberal]

78. "All it takes is a drive"

You really ARE that clueless, aren't you? For fuck's sake. Maybe you never drive, but in case you haven't noticed, gas got expensive. Motels? Not cheap either.

Gee, no fucking shit most people in the UK have "been across the Channel" - the UK is the size of Illinois. It's like me going to Indiana for the weekend. You really DON'T SEEM TO GRASP that America is 1/3 again as large as ALL of Europe COMBINED, and that travel COSTS MONEY. And then you wonder why people think you're an elitist. :eyes:

Me, I've traveled plenty, but I recognize that it was only possible because I come from a place of privilege relative to a good percentage of my fellow Americans. It cost me a lot of money and a lot of savings to do so.

[Political Heretic]

81. Thank you.

[Hannah Bell]

88. +1.

[HughBeaumont]

90. I had to save for 1.5 years to go to Toronto, a city I live 5 hours away from.

Europe or the U.K.? Yeah, that's not happening. When all is said and factored in, even if you get lucky and get the "great deals that you have to really comb travel sections for and hope for the best!", we're still talking several thousands of dollars here.

One aspect people aren't looking at is that often times, it wouldn't be just a single person going. Even so, the Euro and the Pound are killing us; for every dollar you spend here, it's going to be 1.40 to 2 over THERE. That shit adds up. Want to travel to the countryside? Count on additional car rental/hostel costs. Not everything is available by train over there.

It still amazes me that people don't seem to get that international travel is by and large a privilege reserved for the moneyed few or childless.

[proteus_lives]

91. Thank you!

I've known a lot of Europeans/Asians/Middle Easterners and they're always astonished by the size of this country!

Perfect example: My best friend mom's was dating a British fellow and they were talking about a tourist site she had seen in North Carolina a while back and he said, "Well let's pop over there this weekend and see it." He said this on a Thursday and they were in California!

You hit the perfect points with the state comparison and the money. Here's another, what don't we have in America? We have mountains, rivers, lakes, deserts, cities, plays, great cities, canyons, forests, etc, etc.

I've traveled outside the country too and it's a great experience but I still have a lot of America to see!


P.S.
This made me grab my iPod and listen to Johnny Cash's "I've Been Everywhere". ;-)

[mainer]

95. My dad was a cook. Yet we traveled.

Because we were a curious family. We'd drive long distances and camp. Mexico was cheap. It certainly didn't cost THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to drive across the border. We didn't spend it on Vegas on casinos. We drove our 20-year-old Chevy and chose to see what there was to see, both within our borders and outside it.

My observation is that many Americans lack the slightest curiosity about what it's like in another country. I'm not just talking about the lowest income rungs -- I'm talking about middle class. George Bush and Sarah Palin, for instance, had the means but they just didn't have the curiosity because America was THE BEST and they didn't need to see anything outside it.

That indicates total cultural insularity and lack of curiosity, or even fear of the "other." As Palin herself complained, even Hawaii, our 50th state, had too many furriners.

[mainer]

98. 70% of Americans don't have a passport.

Are you saying that those 70% of Americans can't afford to travel? Can't afford to pay for gas to drive to Canada or Mexico?

You are blaming the lack of travel on the fact that 70% of America is poverty-stricken?

[WildEyedLiberal]

126. Yes, I'm saying 70% of Americans cannot afford international travel

And if you really don't believe that, then you are even more blindly privileged than I thought.

You either don't understand that most people live more than a day's drive from Mexico or Canada, and don't have the money for ALL the 1) gas 2) hotels 3) food and 4) assorted other travel expenditures that would be required for such a trip, let alone the fact that most people simply CANNOT take the week or so it would require to devote to such a trip and use such time for pure leisure. Most people have to spend their vacations doing things that their work schedule precludes - home repairs, or visiting their families. IF they even have the standard "two weeks vacation" and haven't used it up piecemeal throughout the year on things like car trouble, doctor's appointments, kids' illnesses, etc etc. How ignorant and incurious of them to dare to spend their precious vacation time on things like family :eyes:

Oh, and passports aren't free, either. I know it must bowl you over to realize that most people don't have the hundred or so dollars (I don't remember how much they cost; I got mine 8 years ago) to spend on a document they'll be lucky if they EVER have a chance to use.

You really, really need to check your own privilege before you start throwing out ugly and condescending accusations about everyone who isn't as fortunate and financially secure as you are. It's a truly ugly characteristic that I don't expect to see coming from anyone who claims to be liberal.

[Hannah Bell]

89. lol. sure, that's it.

[LanternWaste]

138. Or it's simply a large country

Or it's simply a large country with lots of internals to explore before jumping into the externals...

[Political Heretic]

19. People don't despise all things intellectual, they despise condescending intellectual*s*

...that keep talking about ordinary people as though they are sub-human. Stupid, "sheeple," "rednecks" dumb hicks, mocking people for liking NASCAR or Wrestling, for choosing a vocational trade, for not giving a damn about what Plato thought...

I get so sick of these "I am smart and enlightened and all you people are ignorant and stupid and your choice in entertainment is laughable, your style is pitiful, or substance is pathetic." Or just shorted to - "I am so much better than you."

And then we fucking wonder where the disdain comes from. :crazy:

Hell, I know I wanted to tell you to go fuck yourself just reading your elitist screed myself, and I have a masters degree and a bachelors in philosophy - not exactly light on the "intellectual" components.

[cali]

22. baloney.

Adlai Stevenson who wasn't at all condescending was broadly mocked for being an "egghead". And that's just one example.

[Political Heretic]

24. Yeah yeah, imagine my shock that you disagree.

:eyes:

[cali]

26. and imagine mine that you have no real response.

[Political Heretic]

33. Real response to what?

The problem isn't national celebrity intellectuals being nice but getting mocked, the problem is people like you and everyone else posting in this forum that hate ordinary people - and look down your noses at people who dare to do things like watch football or American Idol, as exemplified upthread.

It's people like the ones writing in this thread that ordinary folks meet on the street, and they shape their attitudes toward "intellectuals."

I'm not surprised people "mocked" Stevenson as an egghead after being primed with anger by hordes of condescending pseudo-intellectual pricks deriding them and running them down at every turn.

There may be a nasty stream of anti-intellectualism in this country.... but its roughly proportionate to the nasty stream of condescending smug elitism that fuels it.

[TwixVoy]

27. Do you want someone to tell you it's OK for people to be idiots?

Because it's really not...

If people feel so threatened of actual thought then perhaps instead of generating an internal loathing of those who have a brain perhaps they should crack a book from time to time? But that may require a temporary shut off of the TV.....

[Odin2005]

67. Just because somebody isn't intellectual doesn't mean they are stupid.

[Mopar151]

125. Precisely

And intelligence comes in different forms. I have literally had to explain to a physicist how junkyards work.

[retread]

38. "Eggheads of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your yolks." - Adlai Stevenson

[Cant trust em]

29. Actually I think that you and the OP both make good points.

I've definitely seen condescending elitists who think that somehow people without a degree can't be smart.

On the other hand, I've also seen people who have traditional blue collar jobs seem to think that they are superior because they "work for a living".

I don't think that there is a broader conclusion to reach other than that some people are just assholes.

[Bluebear]

32. Can't argue with your conclusion lol

[Political Heretic]

35. That's a fair point. Thank you for raising it.

Well, don't know about your conclusion.

[Tim01]

40. Well said. nt

[wickerwoman]

53. Ditto.

For every actual snob who thinks hating football gives them intellectual cred, there's half a dozen people who lost an argument, got their feelings hurt and decided that the person who won the argument is an elitist, condescending snob.

What I see far more often than actual snobbery, is one group being simply wrong and rather than admitting that they are wrong, going on the attack claiming that the other side is "condescending". And there's frankly not much that liberals can do about that which is why the right loves going down that path as soon as they see they are losing on the issue itself.

[NuttyFluffers]

99. this is the correct answer... insular prejudice works from any social segment

if subcultures devolve into petty hierarchical games, what makes people think social classes, intellectual pursuits, and general hobbyists are immune?

and yes, assholes exist everywhere. there is an art to saying you don't like something without dehumanizing the other person. sadly, since the art of conversation is dying, we will have more of these dust ups in the future...

[Codeine]

37. FUCKING EXACTLY!

Were it up to me folks would be tombstoned for referring to the electorate as "sheeple" or "the masses."

[Political Heretic]

39. If it were up to me half the people in this thread would be tombstoned.

I have had it with upper-middle class white elitist pseduo-intellectual prickery.

And you can quote me.

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. + 1000

[Cant trust em]

50. Sheeple = people who don't agree with me. nt

[krabigirl]

57. Yes, I agree but this is no reason to elect a dufus to the Presidency.

[Political Heretic]

71. agreed.

[Lorien]

63. You complain about others suggesting that they are "so much better than you"

But take a look at your own profile. Why present us with a resume?

[Political Heretic]

74. How in the world is giving "about me" information acting condescending toward another person?

It isn't a "resume" - I'm single and have no children... what you see is my life, "me." For better or worse.

I'm sorry but I don't see how saying "former ACLU employee" is saying "I'm so much better than you" anymore than saying "I enjoy hiking and mountain biking" is saying "I'm so much better than you."

:shrug:

[Odin2005]

66. If I could I would rec your post!

:yourock:

[timeforpeace]

68. Well said, as usual.

[Fla_Democrat]

134. Notice how it's only 'their' idiots,

Notice how it's only 'their' idiots, that are a problem? Somehow, the poor dumb blue collar, trades worker is a fooking moron, however, the Union worker, in the same field, in a company across the street is the back bone of the party. The rural, 6th grade drop out, is a Jebus freak who will be led astray by those wascally wepublicans, but the inner city drop out, that still goes to church with his grand mother is A-OK? I guess if one was to look at the reading material of a long haul trucker, it would be the usual drivel, Playboy, Guns & Ammo, unless that trucker was a Teamster, then it would be the complete works of William Shakespeare.


I guess when one lives by the narrative of ..... They fall into two categories... evil or stupid, anything that doesn't fit that gets ignored. I would love to see some of the 'intellectuals', at least practice some intellectual honesty about the whole 'dumb people' topic. :smoke:

[Political Heretic]

20. [TAG] - this thread has been tagged as example of bourgeios underground in action.

tagged for future reference

[Cant trust em]

21. She'll have success as a RW base agitator, but I can't see her being politically viable

She doesn't have enough appeal to moderates.

I hope she does enter the 2012 race though. It will be a total melee.

[KonaKane]

23. Contempt for intellectualism has a long, nefarious history

It was a factor in the rampage of every tyranny in the last century, that comes to mind. It just took a little longer to get to our shores.

But, it's here. Welcome to the realization of "Idiocracy".

[retread]

25. Supporter: "Mr. Stevenson, you are sure to get the vote of every thinking American."

Adlai Stevenson: "Thank you, but I need a majority to win."

[Ardent15]

28. There's so much truth to that I want to cry.

nt

[Tim01]

30. That's because so many intellectuals are such pompous dickheads.

Not all, of course, but enough.

[Gregorian]

34. Laziness. Carelessness.

I'm dealing with it right now, with a crew of idiots working on my building. "There ain't no global warming". I guarantee these guys would vote for Palin.

And the work these guys do reflects their ATTITUDE.

We're talking about human nature, but also a phenomenon that has amplified it. The rate at which our society is moving. it's too fast for most people to digest and keep up with.

I don't know.

I lost a friend yesterday. The guy is brilliant. We both got mechanical engineering degrees together. That was back in the late 80's. He was a liberal. Or so I thought. I remember him spouting erroneous engineering facts when we were in school. It infuriated me that he had this amazing ability to get everyone to believe him. And his memory is nearly photographic. He has since turned into a "pro" on the economy. But again, he's wrong. Everything goes in convenient cycles that blame either Democrats, or both parties equally. And that's just not the case. Yesterday after a long discussion of OSHA, ESHA, sewage treatment facilities, real estate, and bicycling (we were great cycling buddies), he finally gave me the hint I needed. He didn't vote for Obama. It may be weak of me, but that was the end of our friendship. I guess that may be my problem. But I don't hang around people with poor judgment. Because any choice but Obama was an exhibit of poor judgment.

Oh well Forgive my blabbing. I'm ill today. And very unhappy. And trying to get 1000 pounds of roofing panels onto a building with a crane that is just about too small. Life...

[alfredo]

36. Here's her 2012 campaign song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nG3KvZDA&feature=related

[gulliver]

43. If you are going to be cruel, you have to make yourself dumb.

Republicans want dumb, because they want cruelty. Intelligence leads to sympathy, and it is hard to steel yourself for cruel and angry acts if you understand and sympathize with others. Republicans feel besieged, and they feel like doing evil. And they don't want anyone calling it what it is. They need lots of dumb.

[Political Heretic]

54. "Intelligence leads to sympathy." Hardly.

Some of the smartest people in history have contributed to our greatest atrocities.

Now, other of our smartest people in history have had deep sympathy and compassion, to be sure. So have simple, "poorly educated" persons.

But there's no clear rule that greater intelligence translates to greater sympathy.

[gulliver]

69. Maybe I should have used science or wisdom instead of intelligence.

Leaders are almost always of greater than average intelligence in every field. Nothing can be done about that. But anti-intellectualism is a demagogic technique to mislead followers. The clever lead the stupid that way. And stupidity in the people is dangerous. That is what I am referring to. The Republicans are clever in that they encourage stupidity.

[hfojvt]

47. I think you are wrong about people

what happens is that what goes around comes around.

Americans tend to despise people who seem to despise them. People who think they are smart. People who think their extra intelligence makes them better than other people.

Look, for example, at your own seeming contempt of the average American. They "don't want to think". They swallow a bunch of "moron sound bites".

It becomes hard to move people to your point of view when one major part of your point of view is that "you are an idiot".

[Political Heretic]

55. Exactly. It also makes it hard to then listen to even non-contemptuous smart people....

..because a climate of distrust has been created by pseudo-intellectual elitist snobs. People have had to wade through a sea of contemptuous condescending pricks so that by the time they get to someone who is not contemptuous but has greater knowledge and wants to share it - no one is interested in listening.

[hfojvt]

59. okay that sorta puts egg on my face

since I was a little condescending in our discussion of unemployment, when it became apparent with later reading of your discussion with DrToast that you are more conversant with these reports than I am.

However, I still disagree with a couple of your conclusions, even though I feel I should apologize.

[Political Heretic]

70. Think nothing of it, and thanks

:)

[Arugula Latte]

48. Ronald Reagan was the perfect embodiment of that. He was dumb as a rock

and liked to simplify and sentimentalize and distort every issue, and millions of stupid Americans ate it up with a spoon.

[upi402]

64. Bob Less Dan Quayle

Mr Potatoe head was #2 in line. What country is this? I blame the media.

[snagglepuss]

82. I heard that he only acted dumb to appeal to voters, that he was quite a

good writer.

[DCBob]

52. Its cool to be dumb..

especially for the teabaggerites.

[wickerwoman]

56. Palin has 2 out of 3 elements of the Reagan/Bush magic formula.

1.) She is not very bright and
2.) The Christian Right love her.

If she can nail aspect number 3 (the fiscal conservative establishment considers her easily controllable), then she will be a serious contender.

I think it's too early to dismiss her or to celebrate the prospect of running against her. Paired with a Cheney-esque puppetmaster who will clearly actually be in charge and if sentiment runs strongly against Democrats in the next election, it's not inconceivable that she could win.

[Canuckistanian]

73. She hasn't even TRIED to throw a bone to them

But we all know where her sympathies lie. She'd sell out to corporate interests in a heartbeat.

It would be "Standard Operating Procedure" - squared.

[stillwaiting]

62. Base conservatives seem to despise liberal intellectuals, but LOVE them their conservative ones

"Intellectuals" like Michelle Bachmann ya know!!

[IDemo]

75. This column sums it up nicely

I have struggled to understand why she's still in the nation's eye when there's so little to see. It can't be anything she's said, I tell myself, because everything she says is baloney. It can't be anything she's done, because other than flouncing from one stage to another, she hasn't done anything. It can't be because her ideas are so innovative or overpowering or appealing, because she has no ideas.

I admit, however, she's hard to ignore. For certain Americans, she is the soup du jour. This season's Tickle-Me-Elmo. The lite at the end of the tunnel. She is God speaking to them in an uneasy time, and they don't get that all He's trying to do is tell them a joke.

For the rest of us, she's like watching slapstick in slo-mo. Betty Boop barrels around a moose and bonks head first into Joe McCarthy. A Rockette slips on a banana peel and makes an absolute fool of herself on the way down.

more -> http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/palin-mania/Content?oid=1363390

[MonkeyMama]

77. I agree with everything you said.

People have become intellectually lazy - being informed requires work.

[Lorien]

80. Many here who disagree are making a fundamental mistake; you don't have to have

a higher education to be an "intellectual". You just have to have a healthy amount of intellectual curiosity and the willingness to accept new information that may change your viewpoint instead of rejecting anything out of hand that doesn't support your own ideology. I know quite a few people who either didn't attend college or who quit only a year or two in who are by anyone's standards intellectuals. They're critical thinkers who stay on top of current events, are self educated simply by having a voracious appetite for the written word or anything which advances their knowledge on just about any topic. One friend of mine had no education at all in physics, string theory, unified field theory or anything of the like five years ago. But, in order to write a science fiction series he read all he could get his hands on on those subjects. Recently he had a two hour conversation with a physicist friend of mine who was completely impressed with his knowledge and personal theories. Intellectualism has absolutely nothing to do with class, but everything to do with interest, diligence and an open mind.

[mainer]

97. That's the key: curiosity is what makes the intellectual.

Funny how I got lambasted up-thread for stating that too few Americans travel outside our borders. "Oh, but it's so expensive and it takes a gazillion dollars and Americans are too POOR to get in their car and drive!"

Wow. So those 70% of Americans who don't even have a passport must be living out on the streets begging because they're all too poor to pay for gas. 70% of us!

No, it's not that they don't get in their car and drive to Mexico and Canada. It's that they don't want to, because they don't really have any desire to see what they're unfamiliar with.

[Lorien]

123. It's not as expensive as a giant flat screen TV

and plenty of Americans have those. This guy took his first trip around the world on an entry level engineer's salary: http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/ . It's more a matter of priorities than wealth.

[WildEyedLiberal]

127. So someone has to be in the streets begging before you decide they're "poor enough"?

Wow, YOU get to be the arbiter of how "poor" people have to be before you have any sympathy for them? This thread gets more and more unbelievable.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're from Maine, given your SN. Gee, you have to drive an hour - two maybe? Three at most? - to get to Canada? And it just magically never occurs to you that not everyone lives so close to either border? Or that, even if they do have the money for a long-distance trip, they don't have family to visit? Or that, GOD forbid, they'd rather go to Yellowstone or Chicago than drive nine hours just so they can say they saw a border town in Canada or Mexico?

I do think it's cute that you apparently don't have any response for me upthread but come down here with further mockery of the working class and poor, because it makes you feel superior to imagine that they're all stupid neanderthals rather than people who don't have the disposable income to prioritize their travel the way YOU think they should.

[snagglepuss]

83. A must read is Anti-Intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter. Its an

excellent analysis of why Americans have always hated intellectuals. It was written in the 60's and won the Pulitzer Prize for History. A very interesting and enjoyable read. He was a terrific writer.

[Hannah Bell]

84. No, Sarah is getting attention because she has deep-pockets backers.

Same reason "New improved Tide" gets attention.


What you're saying is that blonde Stanford grad on FOX who pretends to be stupid gets attention because she pretends to be stupid.

No, she gets attention because she's on FOX, & FOX is labeled as the "conservative" channel. So people who think they're "conservatives" pay attention.

The rank & file isn't about anti-intellectualism, it's about a different flavor of anti-elitism.

[proteus_lives]

86. Can you even lift that brush?

:thumbsdown: for stereotypes.

[Echo In Light]

102. Official Culture - A Natural State of Psychopathy?

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

[mainer]

106. Interesting theory.

Thanks.

[Echo In Light]

109. My belief system entails the notion that most things people take as 'normal/good' are not so

... in actuality. Which explains why most of our social systems are as horribly skewed as they are with such little opposition, coupled with majority exaltation/perpetuation of un-reality as consensus "reality."

[Ganja Ninja]

103. Here's all I have to say to the Palin fear mongers out there.

That threat that if we don't unite we'll get her is a 2 way street. I'm going to resist the logic that says we need to move more to the right or all is lost and it's all the left's fault. To the contrary, if we don't move to the left then I blame the centrists and blue dogs for whatever happens. If you want my vote it's going to take more than the threat of the Fem-Fuhrer to get it.

[mainer]

107. Voters with passports much more likely to be Democrats

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000562.html

Again, supporting the view that those with the innate curiosity (dare we call it intellectualism?) to look outside their own borders, and wonder what's out there, are more likely to be progressive.

Percentage of Australians with passports is around 60-70%.
Percentage of Canadians with passports is around 50%.

Percentage of Americans with passports: 30%.

[newspeak]

112. In college (the 80's), I remember what my psychology professor

told the class one day--she said that we were the "advantaged", superior to those who had not extended their education. And, I remember thinking that it was such arrogance for one to believe it. Being an older student in college, I had seen my share of stupidity, laziness and ignorance, especially with some of the younger students. But, her words and perception also made me think of my down home genuine cowboy uncle. He spent most of his life on the range-was a quiet spoken man. When he spoke, you listened--regular Will Rogers. He was a compassionate, tolerant, common sense plain speaking man--and, he was a democrat. But, he never went to college-spent time overseas in the military during WWII-had seen horrible things. I guess being close to death sometimes makes one think.

You can be a very learned person without going to college. It just takes a curious mind.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

119. I am not worried about her at all n/t

[adigal]

121. My son goes to an "elite" college, and they are more and more in demand

Harder and harder to get into. So why is that, if we all hate excellent higher education? I ponder this quite a bit.

I think the middle class kids are giving the usual attendees at these schools a run for their money, since these schools have excellent endowments and can pay all or almost all of the bills for a middle class qualified kid. Maybe that is the reason.

[TwixVoy]

129. 95% of them don't go for "education"

They go for the college vacation experience and/or the belief getting through it entitles them to a "good job". They don't give a damn about education.... they care about the carrot in front of them.... MONEY and a "good job".

[Caliman73]

122. You are correct in all but the time line.

Anti-intellectualism is not a product of the last 20 years. American anti-intellectualism goes back in history as far as America does. There was anti-intellectual sentiment during the American Revolution and the Civil War. Remember the Scopes Trial? That was in the 1920's. Remember "I Like Ike"? A simple slogan for a simple electorate. Not that Eisenhower was not intelligent, but Adlai Stevenson II was an intellectual giant comparatively. The populace went with Eisenhower because, well, they "liked" him. It was an emotional vote not an intellectual one. Carter spoke to Americans like they were adults who needed to make tough decisions about life. Reagan came in and basically told Americans that it was okay to be greedy, uninformed, yet arrogant.

I know that my statement is simplistic, but it shows the vein of the tendency of Americans to be lead around by the emotions rather than by what is most intelligent or at least a balance.

[mwb970]

124. TV shows like "Numb3rs" give me hope that *some* Americans are still actually smart.

Numb3rs (I know, geeky name), is the most cerebral, nerd-friendly show I've seen on TV in a long time. For the unfamiliar, the show revolves around an FBI agent (Don) and his mathematics-genius brother (Charlie), with Charlie helping the feds track people down, estimate where the next attack will be, stuff like that, using advanced math techniques of various kinds.

Every show features one or two mini-lectures by Charlie on math topics like randomness, distributions, path analysis, all kinds of stuff. The math stuff is all real and true, at least as far as I can tell. One episode I saw recently invoked "soap-bubble theory" and "Steiner trees", and when I looked these things up on Wikipedia, they were exactly as described and used in the show! Wow.

As long as shows like this are popular (you have to reserve the DVDs at my local library because demand is so high), I will be comforted by the thought that some people (though evidently not the Gen-Yers discussed in this thread) still put a premium on learning and intelligence.

[WildEyedLiberal]

128. You're right; all Gen Yers are dumb as rocks

We all listen to brainless AutoTune music and watch reality TV and sit, drooling and inert, in front of our video games systems, all day long.

Christ on a cracker.

[TexasObserver]

130. The Populists of the early 20th century were often also batshit crazy.

While I do embrace some of the fervor of populists 100 years ago, they had a ton of bigotry and worshipped ignorance over science.

Populist fervor is often detached from reality. There has long been 10% of the population consumed by their ignorance and righteous indignation about things they don't understand. They loathe education beyond the 8th grade.

[DailyGrind51]

131. There has always been an anti-intellectualism in American politics.

[One_Life_To_Give]

132. No, people hate being talked down too.

And don't care for people who think anyone without an Ivy League degree is a moron, incapable of understanding anything.

[newspeak]

136. and yet, that's how * talked to his base

Simplicity speaking for (who the candidate thinks) are simpletons. Then the MSM eats it up, repeating how down-home, just a regular guy or gal the candidate is--just one of you. That other guy is too stiff, too intellectual, not like our guy-ya know, the one ya ll want to have a beer with.

Are people being talked down to, or is there a perception fed by media that there is condescension towards the people by intellectuals?

[One_Life_To_Give]

137. Maybe you don't understand his base?

As bad as he was. He still had an ability to resonate with his base. Put things in terms they understood. And I think he came across to them more like a neighbor than as some aloof person insulting their intelligence.

I don't think it's purely media driven. Though part of the problem we have enough blame to go around for it. The story in the OP is a prime example of how to win friends and influence people:sarcasm: