Anger toward UAW erupts at California auto workers meeting

[Hannah Bell]

Anger among workers at the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. (NUMMI) plant in Fremont, California, toward the United Auto Workers (UAW) exploded at a January 24 meeting discussing the imminent closure of the facility. Nearly 5,000 workers will lose their jobs when the plant, formerly a joint venture of General Motors and Toyota, closes on March 31. Four hundred or so workers were present at the meeting.

Several attendees captured the eruption on video, which began during comments by UAW Local 2244 Bargaining Chairman Javier Contreras. Contreras was booed, jeered, and interrupted as he attempted to present details of the severance package. At one point an outraged older worker demanded to know “where the hell” the union official had been for the last six months. Contreras burst out, “Shut the f— up, you motherf——!” At that point, furious workers rushed to the front of the room. Contreras and other local UAW personnel were defended by a few union officials. Local union leaders pleaded for calm and called in the police in a bid to control the workers.

Workers present say that the yelling began because union officials would not allow them to speak. Workers are angry that they have been kept in the dark over UAW negotiations with NUMMI...

General Motors ended its participation in NUMMI in June 2009 as part of its forced bankruptcy at the hands of the Obama administration. Toyota then announced it would no longer continue operations there as of March 2010, blaming GM’s unilateral withdrawal from the partnership...

The NUMMI closure will lead directly to 1,400 more layoffs in the local parts industry, and indirectly to thousands more. This is in California, where the unemployment rate is already at 12.4 percent and where vital social services have been scaled back due to the worst of the nation’s state budget crises.

NUMMI’s suppliers have in recent days announced their own major layoffs. Johnson Controls has said it will close its Livermore plant, resulting in 321 layoffs, with 240 of these coming in late March, timed to coincide with the closure of NUMMI. In addition to the 4,700 jobs lost at NUMMI, Fremont will see an additional 314 parts and supply jobs vanish. The city of Hayward will lose 387 jobs after the closure of Injex Industries. Modesto will lose 186 jobs with the shutdown of Trim Master, Inc. Stockton will suffer 154 job losses after Kyoho Manufacturing closes, and Merced will lose 53 jobs after Arvin Sango shuts its doors.


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/feb2010/numm-f06.shtml

Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nSBEZ1lAIY&NR=1

[Hannah Bell]

1. within 1 minute of posting, the secret unreccer strikes.

[thunder rising]

2. I recced. Maybe it's trying to hide the Union fight. People are frustrated and the union officials

are the only targets available since the corporations cede all the unpleasantness to the unions.

Just for that relief alone, I would think management would love unions. The workers are attacking their own, go figure.

[Hannah Bell]

3. reading the comments on the video, it seems some of the workers don't feel uaw represented

them, also lied to them & took nice vacations on their dime.

if you recced, it's more than one person who unrecced in the first couple of minutes, cause it's still negative.

[Raspberry]

7. Screwed by the union . . .

This is probably WAAAAAAAAAAY off topic, but it happened, and it's on my mind. A lot.

I live in Michigan, which as you know, has had serious unemployment problems for a long time. The town I live in is worse than most.

My husband is a salaried employee at our local paper mill. One of the perks of working there (for both salaried and union employees) has been summer jobs for college kids. The kids have always had the option of working summers, at the intro union wage ($17/hour this year) to do grass-cutting, painting, flower bed-tending, etc. Jobs that need to be done, but that there isn't time for the "regular" union guys to do. There were some people who have had three kids at a time working there. The money went a long way towards college expenses for the kids and their families.

Well, the last couple of years management has been trying to get a "call-in list" established. If they needed a maintenance person to come in after their shift, they were often spending a couple of HOURS making calls and being turned down before they would be able to find someone available and willing to come in. All the mill manageer wanted was to have a list of people who would sign up to say they were available. Different list every day. If you were willing to work, sign up. If you had something planned, or just didn't think you'd want to, then don't sign up. No big deal.

The guys didn't like the idea. Thought they'd be "dinged" if they didn't sign up. The manager held the summer jobs over their heads. They held a meeting to vote on it. The union leadership didn't tell the rank-and-file. (A couple of hundred people.) Twenty of the leadership people showed up for the meeting and voted it down.

No summer jobs for any of the kids. Including the salaried employee's kids, which included mine.

The manager is going to hold an "all-mill meeting" soon, and tell the people how they were screwed, but all that will happen will be that the leadership will be voted out in the next election. Does nothing to restore the $17/hour jobs for students.

[NNN0LHI]

9. So your husband is in management? And you don't like unions?

Thats all I need to know to check the veracity of your story.

In all my life the supervisory people I have known, or their spokespeople have never told the truth about anything. They were born liars. Thats why they were in management.

Don

[Raspberry]

11. Uh,

You can be "salaried" and not exactly be "management," you know.

I'm not lying, BTW. This happened, and everyone's kids got equally screwed.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Cry me a river! Your child can not get $17 an hour so you cry?

Unemployment here is over 10% and I know people with degrees making minimum wage. And your thing is that your kid can not get a plumb deal that management Dad is supposed to be able to hand out like candy corn at Halloween?
Welcome to the world. I'm in two Unions, they are both good and bad. But those who are not part of our decisions do not get to whine about how their children did not get good jobs. You and your husband are not in the Union. It is not, you see, any of your business at all. It is Union business. Your husband is the other side, the enemy, in fact. Your kid is just some kid. Only you care about your kid. Sounds to me like your kid will have all he needs, with or without that $17 an hour. Due to management Dad. Oh, sorry, 'salaried Dad'.
Your post is puke inducing.

[thunder rising]

38. I likey!! A little story about my awakening to the value of the unions.

In 1972/3 I was a union laborer at a nuclear power plant. Minimum wage was like $1.25 and my pay was $3.15 plus .15 for crane duty. I didn't like the dues and complained a bit.

One of my jobs was driving around with a Teamster truck driver and a carpenter. I think Jimmy Hoffa was still alive (maybe not) and I ask how the teamsters could put up with the corruption. The response was, you only get one side of the story from the news and Jimmy Hoffa made us a lot of money.

And that is what this is all about. Equal share of the money. Without unions we are picked off as easily as the tin ducks at a carnival.

[Raspberry]

43. Oh, bullshit.

1--A job is a job. My kid can't get ANY job, because there are no jobs to get here. I would be glad for him to get minimum wage. At the mill or anywhere.

2--Yeah. I've got a degree, and I just received a raise--to $9/hour, after a couple of years. I will never make $17/hour.

3--When "your" decisions affect other people those people have a right to have an opinion about "your" decisions.

4--"The enemy?" What makes any management guy your enemy? Maybe if union people could understand that everyone who works for a company is on the same team, there wouldn't be so many problems. I've watched the union leadership screw their membership six ways to Sunday for almost 20 years. They are the liars, not management.

5--And I certainly don't understand how you can conclude that my kid will have "all he needs." There is nothing I have posted to allow you to come to that conclusion. Lots of the union members make more than my family.

[thunder rising]

71. Sounds like you could use a union. And for the record, you're smoking crack to think management

is ever on the side of labor. The only time labor gets warm fuzzies is when the company needs them badly enough to recognize their value. The unions simply make that "moment of clarity" more concrete.

[thunder rising]

20. Agreed! Another side of the story is that management tried to bypass the union and the membership

stayed home so they wouldn't be identified and let the union do it's job. Does that sound like a decent "rest of the story"?

[Raspberry]

21. I highly doubt that

To begin with, the vote was secret.

Second, the rank & file WANT those summer jobs for their kids. The leadership knew that, and cut them out so they couldn't vote. Why would they vote against "their own best interests?"

That sounds like the real rest of the story.

[thunder rising]

24. I guess we'll have to take your word for that. But in the context of your other entries, I doubt

your integrity on the subject.

[Raspberry]

26. Excuse me?

You have no basis to question my integrity.

Unions aren't always in the right, and I thought that was the point of the original post I responded to.

[thunder rising]

30. I'll defend the unions. We need them and right now it's very easy to make them the scape goat

when it's the FUCKING management that is the real criminal. The shareholders and management take their slice and the unions make sure labor gets theirs. As I said, I have yet to see the price of anything drop after a union agrees to pay cuts.

[JNelson6563]

36. I have news for you

I am pro-union but my eyes are wide open. Here in MI the UAW still has a notable presence. They are quite far from perfect my friend. There are elitists in their ranks and, you got issues with management? Well you should have the opportunity to meet some high ranking union officials. I'll give you a clue, they don't care about you, your family or anything else. Getting your workplace to sign up means good things for them, like a trip to the tropics or maybe an upgraded sailboat.

I know enough of them to be a bit wary. Trust me on this, those who run the unions aren't what you seem to think. Once you get above a certain level/rank you can't hardly tell 'em apart from big shots on Wall St.

Julie

[thunder rising]

41. So let's give all the money to the elite. At least with the union you have certain protections.

I agree that after a union gets large enough they take a "big picture" view. But the choice is to stand alone against a very solidified "union" of money. What do you think an MBA is? Try looking at it as an apprenticeship into management where the first thing you are taught is that people are no longer brothers, sisters, friends, etc but "human resources"; hence every resource needs to create it's value and unions do that.

Without unions you end up being like IT ... outsourced and on-shored. Remember Bush's statement any willing worker for any willing employer? What do you think that was all about.

I'll keep the unions. Maybe educating the members might be helpful.

[Raspberry]

45. Most labor jobs can't be out-sourced

because you need someone on-site to do the physical labor--maintaining machines, etc. The MBAs have much more to worry about than union people, with downsizing off-shoring, etc.

As for the whole "brother/sister" thing--when the union went on strike about ten years ago, long-time friends told us they could no longer talk to us. It sucked.

[thunder rising]

53. But they can be on-shored. H1-B ring a bell?

And my little violin is all tuned up for the MBAs and their worries. After having sacrificed their integrity for a temporary piece of the pie, the ax is finally falling on them. Sucks doesn't it?

[Raspberry]

59. I don't know what H1-B is

and not every MBA has sacrificed their integrity, nor has everyone who sits at a desk. We're all just trying to get through.

And sometimes a small group of angry people with a huge chip on their shoulders screw everyone. And that's what happened here.

[thunder rising]

67. They are the indentured servants management imports to displace an American. Clueless?

[ingac70]

84. An H1-B is a work visa....

for foreign slave labor to come here.

And you are a complete dumbass.

[DainBramaged]

102. Thanks for taking this thread off the beaten path, you did good....

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[JNelson6563]

46. Nice job twisting what I said. 10 out of 10.

I didn't say we should eliminate unions. It's a good thing when workers can achieve collective bargaining.

My purpose in writing the post you replied to was that it is sad to see some who view unions as above reproach.

Julie

[thunder rising]

57. Then post on a management blog. I don't take unfounded attacks on unions lightly, ever.

[JNelson6563]

65. "Unfounded attacks" LOL

Everything I stated was fact. I ought to know, I recounted things I witnessed personally. I've sailed on the boats I referred to and taken care of pets and houses while trips to the tropics were taken. I've also enjoyed cocktails after the plastic surgery and witnessed those same procedures become virtually undone over a few years of over-eating rich foods and drinking too much premium vodka.

But go ahead and worship those in union management my friend, doesn't matter to me one wit. Believe me, those same folks I have told you about don't care what you think anyway. As I have been told time and again, "those people aren't politically sophisticated like us". When I first heard that I was aghast, as time goes by I can see how they feel secure enough to not only believe such, but to say these things rather openly.

Hell, if I had such defenders (factual recountings are "unfounded attacks") I reckon I'd laugh at the proles below too.

Labor needs to be cleaned up. It doesn't need a bunch of Palin-like worship (where any criticisms are viewed as "unfounded attacks") but a good, honest trim-the-fat effort. Especially since so many of the members have been left with nothing.

Julie

Edited to add bolded part

[Bluenorthwest]

86. Against their best interests?

Your interests and theirs are not the same.

[pipoman]

10. I have hired college kids for years

and it is RARE to find a college kid worth that kind of money...most are not committed, show up hung over or dead tired from spending all night out, attention to detail is lacking, text messaging at every opportunity, overall productivity is half that of a committed adult who actually appreciates having a job. This isn't to say that none are good workers, just not a high percentage in my experience. Why do you feel that students are entitled to $17 per/hr jobs when it sounds that family people in your area are suffering and could use that income?

[Raspberry]

12. I agree with you

The summer jobs are *NOT* worth that kind of $$$. That's more than I've ever made, for sure. But, that was in the contract years ago. The students (when hired) are union employees, and are entitled to the union pay. Whether they are hired or not is a management decision, based on whatever the manager feels like doing.

The jobs would not be available to others, even if there were no summer students. These are kind of make-work type jobs. Just, as I said, a perk for employees.

As for the summering families, it has been tough to find people here qualified for the labor pool. Many cannot pass the basic math and reading test, and many do not have the required work record (36 months of employment out of the last 48.) Maybe you could argue that they should lower their standards, but when you are dealing with an environment as dangerous as a papermill, you need people to be able to read at a basic level. Perhaps they will be forced to change the work record requirement (because of the economy,) but I think there is a *justified* feeling that you should have to prove your motivation in order to score one of the best-paying jobs in the area.

[pipoman]

13. This is the kind of shit

that has strongly contributed to exportation of US jobs. Pay not being paid based on merit, ability, or commitment, but awarded as a 'perk' to the undeserving. How can any US company be expected to compete on the world market while throwing away money on silly 'perks' on "make-work type jobs"? Every production dollar counts when it comes to production cost vs. sales price.

[thunder rising]

15. It's called revenue sharing. Sharing the wealth which now is being horded by the top.

I haven't seen the price of cars drop due to the decrease in union wages. So, where is the money going? Obviously not to college kids.

[thunder rising]

16. It's these kind of remarks that are meant to keep labor hated; capital is the only thing that counts

"silly perks" f*ck you.

[Raspberry]

28. No capital,

no jobs.

Just sayin'.

[thunder rising]

32. NO LABOR NO PRODUCT!! This is the reason unions were created. LABOR COUNTS TOO!

[Raspberry]

56. Labor counts, too

but is really only one part of the whole picture. Trouble is, labor often thinks it is way more important than it actually is. In most places, it wouldn't be too tough to replace the entire labor force. Engineers, accountants, and big $$ investors might be a totally different story.

[thunder rising]

61. Really? How does that apply to executive pay? Oh, I see, they are exempt from that judgement

What we are really missing is the national strike to to show just how valuable labor is. Shut down the nation for a few days.

[Raspberry]

66. Yeah. Good luck with that

When there are 200 applications for every Wal-Mart opening, I can just imagine what would happen. A bunch of stupid people would walk off highly paid jobs in an illegal strike, and they would be replaced within hours, by a bunch of people just as qualified, and way more motivated to work.

And I sure don't know what executive pay has to do with this. Some are overpaid, but some salaried people make much less (for many more hours of work) than the union people.

[thunder rising]

72. So your true management side shows up. Do you know what happens to scabs?

you are a true koolaid drinker.

[Raspberry]

79. Yup. I sure do know.

I know that they had a guy here that they had to put on waste-basket emptying duty in the office, for his own safety. He'd have been in real physical danger if he'd gone back into the mill.

I know there was a guy at a mill in Wisconsin who ended up in chipper because he turned in a union "brother" for STEALING.

And--people's loyalty is (and should be) to their own families, and not to a union. In a general strike, most people would do what was in their own best interests.

[NNN0LHI]

87. ... ended up in chipper ... I think you watch too many movies

Stay away from the Fargo.

Don

[Raspberry]

88. Oops! My bad. It was a pulp vat

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19921124&id=H6IaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pywEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6543,259473

[pipoman]

101. Get pissed off if you want to

but the great labor party, while tongue in mouth kissing the rethugs gave away your jobs with the stroke of a pen, while "fast tracking" "trade agreements" which took away barriers which protected your "perks". I have firmly;y opposed these agreements, which has taken away your bargaining power. Now for the reality. You are competing not with Arkansas but China, or Malaysia..and I can quite assure you that Malaysians children aren't being given jobs for $17US to mow the lawn. I am sorry you must compete with that, but it is reality....thank you Pres. Clinton, etal.

[NNN0LHI]

18. Let me tell you a quick story

I can remember when the first huge layoffs hit the US auto industry back in the 1970's. I was working at Ford at the time. The first list of layoffs came out on a Thursday with about 500 names on it. So the following Monday I expected to see a lot of people missing. But there was no one missing! They were all ghost employees that the bosses in the front offices had managed to put onto the payroll a few at a time over many years time. These were bosses kids and other friends or relatives who were technically employees. Golf buddies and such. They got a check every week. But they never stepped foot in the place.

The corruption is amazing isn't it? I bet the same thing happened at every auto plant across the US back then.

Don

[thunder rising]

27. But this is another issue. Now we're just in a circular arguement meant to demean unions

Union corruption is a fact; however, whatever happened to oversight. This "corruption" was allowed by management to spring on the union later. Apparently, management had no problem with the "ghost" employees.

[NNN0LHI]

29. The union had nothing to do with it

This was a scam that management had thought up. The union has nothing to do with hiring.

Don

[thunder rising]

31. "bosses in the front offices" were management? I thought you meant union bosses. oooops

sheepishly apologizes

[NNN0LHI]

34. Yea we didn't have any union people in the front offices at my plant

They pretty much stayed at the union hall unless they were called into the plant at a members request or if local negotiations were going on.

And don't worry about the sheepish stuff. I probably should have been clearer.

:hi:

Don

[laughingliberal]

47. I've never seen a company that gave raises based on 'merit' give anything but crap raises

I supervised an oncology floor in Houston for 4 years. I had the responsibility for doing the annual evaluations of the nurses who worked under me. I did fair and accurate evaluations of a staff who, generally, rated above average. Trust me, with the way the institution was short staffing, no one who was not above average would have survived.

As I did not have budget authority the VP over me had to approve the evaluations. They were on a point system. Raises were the outrageous amount of 2-4%, based on the points. I'm not sure how many points it would have taken to get 4% but not even my best nurses ever got there. Most fell in the range for a 3% raise (hey, don't spend that all in one place). Every time, I mean every time, I took a nurse's eval in for approval by the VP she sat with a calculator and kept shaving points off that evaluation until she got that number back down to where they only got a 2% raise. She did not work on the floor with my nurses and did not have any basis upon which to judge their work, at all.

Don't tell me about merit raises. It is and always has been a scam to avoid paying people adequately. If an employee is performing well enough to keep their job their should be a minimum raise guaranteed. If not they should be let go. There's not one damned thing to keep management from giving a merit raise on top of the minimum if their goal truly is to reward excellence. But we all know that is not the goal.

[pipoman]

107. You can work out the specifics

but far too often there is no incentive to excel. If you are working in health care and can't/don't see the complacency associated with seniority advancement with no further merit based incentive, it must be like no other health care institution I've ever seen.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. So you- management- are upset that your child could not get

a Union perk? I find it very hard to buy that the Union fought for those jobs so that the kids of management could have them.

[Raspberry]

48. Not a union perk

a perk of employment at the mill. Open to all employees' kids. The manager could now offer those summer jobs to the kids of salaried employees only. He won't, because it wouldn't be fair.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Ok, but I am trying to figure out how a kid not getting a gravy gig

compares to the subject of this thread, which is thousands of families losing their entire incomes. Hard for me to see how that subject leads you to this particular complaint. I just do not see how they compare at all. I think to see what you are saying, I'd have to care more about a temp teen summer gig than for thousands of working families.
I suggest your child look into working the salmon season in Alaska. Similar pay rates, but there is actual work, and no Union in sight, so he should be happy about that too. Easy for him to replace that money if he wants to work for it, rather than skim some gravy.
I'll provide links if the money is really your concern. Very hard, horrible work. Do you think he wants it? I don't.

[thunder rising]

69. Blue, it's because they are entitled to the gravy. And you're right about not taking that job.

[Raspberry]

70. I did say on the first post on this thread

that it's probably off-topic. But the OP mentioned somewhere in this thread that the membership was angry with UAW leadership, and it just reminded me of this situation. In which, a bunch of people were screwed by a few union leaders.

In this economy, I don't think union leaders should be acting like a bunch of spoiled little brats and denying FAMILIES $6000/year for their kids' education.

Personally, I think the manager should offer the jobs to everyone in town--at minimum wage, and show the union a thing or two. My kid would apply, and be willing to work for the minimum wage.

Send the links, please. Don't know if the kid would be interested, but he just might be.

[thunder rising]

22. Because it's a union shop ... there are advantages to being in a union. Also, management kids were

hired. So, what's your beef.

Another advantage of hiring kids is the tax break of spreading out the money. Would you feel better if it were given to the members as a bonus?

[Loki]

17. $17.00 an hour for college students?

You've got to be kidding right? I have a college student and she makes $2.50 an hour waiting tables and then tips. These jobs should go to people with families. Most jobs around here that have normally been college and high school student jobs are going to older people who have lost employment. $17.00 an hour for a college student is f&&*ing ridiculous.

[thunder rising]

23. No, your tunnel vision is ridiculous. It's a perk. It's like a bonus but spreads the money.

Get a clue.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. A perk goes to an employee

A perk would have to be handed out equally, or according to merit, of the employee, not the employee's child. And what of peer employees without children? What perk do they get to replace this hugely valuable payout to lucky young family members of management?
A bonus is paid for performance, to employees. Clue wise, kid, understand that what you are talking about is called tax evasion. If you pay my bonus to a lower earning family member to reward me, that is tax evasion. You can not give what I have earned to another to 'spread it around'. Handing cash payouts to relatives of employees as part of a compensation package is not legal.
What is the name of this company? IRS would love to hear this, that they give 'bonuses' by handing the bonus money not to management but to their children!

[thunder rising]

50. If it's in the contract that kids get summer jobs there is no tax evasion. Get a clue

You are forgetting that not so many years ago, families were given allowances for children. In such an arrangement as this, the families are given an allowance, the company gets some value, and the money is spread out.

[Raspberry]

52. Not in the contract

which is why the salaried employees' kids could get the jobs, too. Just a perk. A bundle of $$$$ that the manager was willing to give away to all their employees' kids.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. Sorry. If those jobs are 'bounuses' for the parents, handed out

as jobs for the kids, that is evasion. If another is paid to reward me, rather than simply paying me, that is evasion. You are saying they are bonuses to the parents who work there. Just given out as jobs to the kids. If that is the case, it is evasion.
Also, I wonder what equity was in place for those employees who had no kids to hire? Were they refused this bonus, due to that? Or were they given cash equal to the jobs?
Your problem is that you are defining this as a bonus to the employees, then as a family allowance, then as summer jobs 'for kids'. Each of those terms has an actual definition under the tax law. So this situation can not be a bonus, and an allowance, and also a job for kids. It is one of those things. It can not be all of them.
I'm not even sure it is legal to pay what you call a 'family allowance'. Never heard of such a thing in my life. Ever. No one I know has ever been paid any such thing, and if they were, their peers would sue. Or just leave. It is an outrageous concept. It is discriminatory. When you claim that was common 'not that long ago' do you mean during the reign of Queen Victoria?

[thunder rising]

78. Military for sure. Others industries have other ways of compensating, like last to be layed off.

First to get raises.

And your argument about evasion is ill founded. Fist there would have to be proof of the intent. I just came up with the "frame" because it fits. I think it's a great way to spread the wealth.

[pipoman]

108. You arethe one who needs to "get a clue"

You do realize that the US is currently nearing all time high unemployment? That US jobs have been irrevocably sold out to 3rd world countries by our elected officials? That like it or not you are competing with labor in other countries WHO DON"T FUCKING GET FUCKING PERKS? Wake up, your perks are gone for fucking EVER.

[Raspberry]

25. Yes

I agree that $17/hour is much too much for a kid. Personally, I would have much preferred that they would be paid minimum wage. But the union negotiated that. It's actually a benefit for -them- because they have to pay $6000.00 less for each kid's college costs.

As for the jobs going to "people with families," it wouldn't happen. If there are no summer students hired, no one is hired to do those jobs. That simple.

See my comment up-thread regarding that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Here where I live the kids are lucky to get minimum wage

Cry me a river.

[Raspberry]

39. Minimum wage would be great

If there were jobs. There aren't. This is a real hit, not only to the kids but to their parents as well.

(My personal feeling is that the kids _should_ get minimum wage, so that they would know why they are going to college.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. I really don't see how this is the union's fault

The union doesn't hire and fire employees - management does.

I am very active in my union and get sick of members complaining about how the union did this and the union did that when it is the employer who makes these decisions, not the union.

[Raspberry]

51. Management hires & fires

& negotiates with the union. In this case, the union leadership turned down the benefit, and everyone has to live with the consequences. I sign-up list would have been a minor concession, but their membership (& the salaried employees) took a $6000 per college kid hit.

Definitely the union's fault.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. No, management wanted a call in list and the union leadership disagreed

I'm sure they had a good reason. Bottom line - MANAGEMENT chose to discontinue the program, not the union.

[Raspberry]

63. Oh, absolutely

They MUST have had a good reason, and didn't just want to jerk management around because that's what they get off on.

After all, they are always right about everything, and always have their membership's best interest at heart.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Okay then explain what the union has to gain from discontinuing this jobs program

[Raspberry]

73. They think they showed management

who REALLY runs the mill.

Some of these guys are insane. Extremely militant. I was here through a strike about ten years ago. One guy bragged about ALWAYS voting no, on every contract, no matter what was in it, just on "principle." One guy stood on the picket line in a gorilla suit with a sign saying "They expect me to work for bananas." He was making $24/hour at the time (+ overtime.) Meanwhile, the people driving past the picket line were probably making about $6.00/hour and were glad to have it. The union people voted no on the first contract on the advice of their leadership, and when they found out what they had actually turned down, one guy beat up a union leader in a bar. They settled evnetually, for FAR less than they were originally offered. It took some of them YEARS to make up what they lost. The union did that to them, not management.

[thunder rising]

75. Being union has advantages. Card check will allow more people to organize and join.

You keep going back to these "crab pot" stories where your jealousy reeks. Join a union.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. That was non responsive as hell

Would you like to hear some stories of management firing on crowds of strikers as they have in our history? Want to play 'I heard this one' stories? Because we could start with a quick waltz down Pinkerton Road, past the riles, the bludgeons, the jail cells.
But more to the point, I can not get my other computer going this morning, but your son could, if he's in need, start by looking up the Alaskan companies Ocean Beauty Seafoods, or Unalaska area processors. They hire like mad, the work is hell, they recruit this time of year for June and the like. I'd love to offer links, but I can not get to them. If he looks at one, and does not puke, pm me and I will in fact find more names and such. I have a friend who does this. I could never in a million years, not even when I was a teen.
And I would send info, even though we have locked horns here. We all got to make a living!

[thunder rising]

74. Management discontinued the program as a punishment for not allowing the call list (that's what you

said before)

[Raspberry]

80. It was a negotiation

You WANT something, you have to give something up. Isn't that the way union negotiations are supposed to work?

[Bluenorthwest]

49. I just have to say, Unions exist because of management types

who look at a story about thousands of people losing their jobs, their entire incomes, and want to turn the discussion around to be about how their kid is not getting any gravy from the Union. This thread is about entire families losing their living. The loss your child has endured does not seem to compare well to the actual subject of this thread.

[thunder rising]

76. Yeah, this was felony hijacking.

[Raspberry]

81. You're right

My beefs about what happened here probably didn't belong on this thread, and for that I apologize.

[asdjrocky]

85. Wow.

I guess it takes all kinds.

[JVS]

91. I disagree.

There are kinds it can do without.

[asdjrocky]

93. It certainly can.

By the way, I'm totally using that.

[WhiteTara]

55. I have almost unrecced a few

just because of the placement and no longer is the question asked before you actually post your rec. But of course there are those who just like to say NO

[asdjrocky]

83. On the un-rec?

I'm convinced there is about half a dozen Duers who have a list of names, they unrec based on the poster, it has nothing to do with the substance of the post.

Good post by the way, you get a rec from me.

[Joanne98]

4. Why do GM and Toyota have a joint venture anyway?

[Hannah Bell]

5. all the car corps are linked by joint ventures, tech sharing, mutual investment, etc.

you'd almost think there was really only one giant car corp.

and it just moves production around the globe to arbitrage labor.

[pipoman]

8. Initally this plant produced

Toyota Corollas and GM's Geo Prizm, the Geo name plate was discontinued and the Prizm was produced with the Chevy name. These are common remnants of the early 1990's, US and Japanese joint ventures. Chrysler teamed with Mitsubishi, Ford teamed with Mazda, GM with Isuzu, Toyota, and someone else (Spectrum?).

[JVS]

60. Because in the 1980s GM realized that the Chevette was not competitive with Japanese subcompacts...

and made a deal to re-badge a Toyota model as the new Nova (later Geo Prizm)

[Blue_Tires]

94. several automakers do...

or have in the past...

[Hannah Bell]

95. almost all do or have.

[secondwind]

6. there go several thousand votes for Obama down the drain... Carlyfornia must be ecstatic!

[madrchsod]

14. the only thing that was accomplished was making themselves look like fools

[msedano]

19. Will Tacoma pickups cease production?

NUMMI manufactured a popular small pickup truck. With its closure those truck sales aren't going away. Instead, they're going to Texas.
http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2009/08/24/daily35.html

Lots of missing issues here. If the contractors and subs to them have Texas locations, or can relocate, the jobs lost in Califas transfer to Texas. If the contracts are good despite the closure of NUMMI--surely that wasn't in view when the contractors inked their deals--they can continue supplying the parts and charge more for transportation, or eat the difference.

"If it bleeds it leads" newspaper writing leaves too darn many gaps in stories to keep a public informed.

mvs

[SmileyRose]

40. 6400 will lose their jobs and only 500 showed up at the union meeting

the sad part is, that 500 is probably a record turnout for a union meeting. Forget the pitchforks at the government gates, we can't even show up at the meetings............

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. That was my first thought as well

I am a teacher active in my union. We recently hired a new superintendent and the first thing he did was lay teachers off for the first time in 20 years. He had many other fairly radical suggestions that the teachers didn't like at all. So our union president invited the superintendent to come talk to us and explain what he was doing. We have around 2000 members and less than 100 showed up to hear the superintendent. So now when anyone complains about something he does, I say "Gee I didn't notice YOU at the meeting where we all got to talk to him."

[newspeak]

98. well, my hubby was in management

and sat on the bargaining board--he was pro-union. He managed in a right-to-work state and everything was hunky dory for those anti-union workers until the union workers in another state got a better deal. It was the company's fault for screwing their anti-union crowd--they voted to unionize.

I know this book is out of print, but if you can find it, it's called "Confessions of a Union Buster." A guy who was hired by corporations to bust unions or keep unions from forming. He was on a radio interview, I believe Pacifica, years ago in California. I'll never forget the one thing he said--some union leaders historically have gotten a bad reputation-but incidents with union leaders is small compared with what corporations have gotten away with. He talked about intimidating union representatives, setting up fake scenarios for blackmail, "accidents." If you can find it, read it.

Oh, and capital over labor huh? What do you think about greedy goons using junk bonds (instead of their own capital) to take over companies in the black and basically gut them? Thus, leaving workers out in the cold.

[DainBramaged]

103. First what was the size of the meeting place, second how were they informed and

what time was the meeting?


I remember we could only fit about 200 people in the old union hall, so your assumption is at best, poor.

[HughMoran]

54. How's that socialist manifesto coming?

Do you still "despise liberals"?

:rofl:

[ingac70]

82. GM floated that plant financially...

No they are out of the picture. Toyota won't have any jobs in a state that can't offered subsidies.

[DainBramaged]

105. THAT is the bottom line, without GM support, Toyota will not keep the plant open

They are scumbags. They want the lowest cost and don't give a shit about quality. The details regarding the recalls proves that.

[Gold Metal Flake]

89. Who does Contreras think he is? Rahm Emanuel?

[B Calm]

90. Here's another example of blaming the union for a management decision!

[leftstreet]

96. K&R

[SeekerBlue]

97. Bad news for these workers, good news for humanity

Fuck 'em. We've ALL got to storm ALL the bastards giving speeches from the front of the room.

[readmoreoften]

99. UAW union officials screwed me over too. Workers need to take back their unions from

right-wing and centrist bureaucrats who make $150K a year and have never personally been on strike.

[upi402]

106. i get sick of hearing folks in a socialist organization spewing rightist sayings

I blame the media as much as them. People are cheap and easy to fool. I marched in support of union folks who were sold out by their union. I feel soooo useless anymore. Folks at DU fight me when I stand up for workers. So tiring and deflating when folks you try to help bite you.

[autorank]

100. Hannah, thanks for real news k*r n/t

[upi402]

104. we will fight our brothers and sister and give our cruel masters a pass

this will get worse

ty for the OP