Lost my house today

[GiveMeFreedom]

Yep, Bank of America said I do not qualify for the making homes affordable loan program. It seems I make enough money, that my wife's and my income is $11.098.89 a month gross or $133,000 dollars a year.

WHAT THE FUCK???!!!!????

I am a construction worker, I admit I made great money when the housing market was building like crazy, yea it was easy to make $80k plus a year working 2200 hours or more a year. And my wife is a teacher who makes an easy $50K a year, so yea, $130,000 a year was good, damn good. That was right up to 2007. I knew before most that something was terribly wrong, as the big home builders where building less and buying less. I watched as my job went from 40+ hours a week to maybe 2 weeks a month of less than 40 hours. But the damage was done.

We had all ready bought our dream home in 2004

Sure we got caught up in the easy money, but we could afford it. We lived real right and happy. Making that house payment was too easy. So we took out a second.

Huge fucking mistake!@@!@#$

Looking back that was the straw that broke me.

My income has been severed by more than half and jobs for a 52 year old heavy equipment operator are so far and few between, that I have quit even trying. I really have no other marketable skill that pays as well as that job does and at my age employers are not really willing to train me for a well paying job.

Since mid 2008 right up to today right here in 2010, we tried to keep our home. At first we could not make payments or just quit paying all together. We hired one of those "we'll help you keep your house" agencies, that in a nutshell, did not work obviously, but they got theirs.

Then B of A (bank of assholes) offered us one of those making homes affordable trial programs. My wife and I where ecstatic, we would be able to keep our home. So in late 2009 we started sending in the trial payments hoping that we would finally get a break. We paid all three of the trial payments and have kept paying since, no lates and on time.

BUT NO!!!

I received a letter today that says we make to much money and should be able to afford the original payment, so no break for us. Of course at the end of the letter they acknowledge that we must be going through difficult times and wish us well?

WHAT the FUCK???!!!

In the letter, B of A said that after careful review of our financial statements (bank records, pay stubs, unemployment stubs, etc. over a years worth) they have computed that our gross monthly income is $11,000 a month or $130k a year.

Where the fuck did they get that fucking number from??? huh???!#@

As I look at my official U.S. government documents or W-2's for 2009, I notice that my total income for 2009 was $36k, $13k of it unemployment. My wife is at her $50K. Adding it all up, well you do the math. It is not no way in heaven, hell, congress, or B of A's little computer adding up to $133k a year.

I called B of A immediately and told them exactly what I made last year, as reported by my employers on my W-2's. Guess what?

It doesn't make a fucking difference to them what my W-2's say?????@#!@!!!@%$#

Are you kidding me?

I guess what B of A really wants is my dream crushed and my family to rent a home. They want us out plain and simple. So they come up with these imaginary numbers from only the Devil knows where and stand back knowing that I will capitulate and say..

Hey, Bank of America, FUCK YOU!!! I QUIT, YOU WIN MOTHER FUCKERS!

All in all it's probably a good thing. The house is so upside down in debt that I can see China outside my window. Rent in my area is around $1000 to $1500 a month, so we will be able to actually save money. The stress of being a "Moral Hazard" will be complete and I can own that, a relief really.

There is a lot of blame to go around about this financial meltdown and the shenanigans behind it. You can blame me for being greedy maybe, even stupid more likely as I did my small part to fuck up my American dream. But you have to admit I was not a big player in all of this, just another of the 13 million Americans who are finding out the hard way...

The Financial Institutions don't give a fuck!!! The government doesn't give a fuck!!! My Senators don't give a fuck!!!, My Congressman doesn't give fuck!!!

And I am starting to believe the President doesn't really care about main street to much either. Geez!!! imagine that!

So condemn me if you wish, call me what you will and have your way with my small intellect, I will just refuse to fix the potholes in your highways and hope they grow and grow!!

Now I need to figure out how long I can stay here and how much I can save before they come. Fuckers.

Rant over,I feel a little better, cya on the front lines of the revolution.

[scheming daemons]

1. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

I feel for you, brother.

[progressoid]

11. Yeah, me too. n/t

[tkmorris]

14. There, but for the luck of the draw, go ALL of us.

[mochajava666]

94. Those were the exact words that I thought, too.

[CLANG]

140. yup...

[Lorien]

178. Add me to that growing list

I bought a $155,000 home back in 1996 when I had a six figure income. I never would have imagined that I'd lose my life savings to medical debt, be living below the poverty line and wondering how I can continue to afford payments that were one 1/3 of what I could have comfortably afforded. We're all in a very large club that keeps on growing...and no, no one in charge seems to care in the least. :-(

[RedCloud]

198. I figure home = annual salary times 3 for max loan. You fit in easily.

You did nothing wrong. Sounds like the health crooks went to work on you.

[Lorien]

255. Insurance crooks, actually

They refused to pay a dime toward two ER visits and life saving surgery.

[stopbush]

193. So, what? There by the grace of god went Give Me Freedom?

[Maru Kitteh]

264. Really? If it bugs you substitute the word luck, providence, fate - whatever makes you feel better.

But if you're questioning SD's sentiments I respectfully say: Frack off.

[rpannier]

268. -100000

[abelenkpe2]

200. Indeed.

I wish more would realize this. It is so frustrationg talking to those who think they are somehow untouchable, perfect, have it all figured out...

Good luck to all.

[robertpaulsen]

248. The OP put a lump in my throat. Seeing your first post made my eyes water.

That is the fear I face, it could happen to me. It could happen to any of us. It fills me with sadness to see it happen to someone here. Take care, GiveMeFreedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjRPugJ8CA

[Maru Kitteh]

261. We too. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. How horrifying.

What bastards they are.

To take your dreams and throw them away...

I hope you can find a way out of this nightmare.

:hug:

[Vickers]

3. I have two colleagues going through the same thing, friend.

I actually advised someone to walk away from their mortgage today, something I couldn't imagine telling someone to do, say, 3 years ago.

Things are different now, and if renting for a few years will allow you to get back on your feet, then fuck the bank...they won't be able to sell it for what you have it mortgaged for.

BTW, one of them has the additional problem of "cancer clusters" being found in his area due to possible groundwater contamination (go to Google news and do a search on "acreage cancer cluster"), so he probably couldn't sell his house even if he wanted to.

Peace.

[FourScore]

110. TELL THEM TO SHOW YOU THE NOTE!!!!!

It ain't over till it's over.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6612557

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

How much you wanna bet they will renegotiate?

(I'm posting this twice so that it doesn't get lost at the bottom of the thread. Important info here.)

[nahant]

190. BoFA

I have my own issues with BOFA after 30+ years being a customer they cut my credit limit mid month, raised my interest rate from 9% to 24% and charged me for going over the new limit in the same month they cut my limit charged me for going over!! Fucking asshole and after calling and written I have gotten no where!!
I am in the process of moving all our money out of their grip and going to a local credit union but it sure takes a lot of work to make those changes.
All the Bankers are just greedy pricks and must be reined in with heave regulation and 90% tax on all gross profit!

[Uben]

199. My CU sent me a Mastercard app today

They guarantee the 9% APR will not change. I'm getting it and I'll quit using the cards (2) I have been using because they upped my rate to 21%. I pay off my credit cards in full monthly and work diligently to NEVER PAY FEES OR ADDITIONAL CHARGES. I have been a member of this CU for 40 years and have used it as my bank for the last 25 yrs or so. All of my loans have been thru them as well.

Right now, I am changing insurance companies, too. When I got my statement for the 2010 charges, I called them and placed a claim to replace my hail damaged roof. Adjuster came out and verified the loss. I have already shopped insurance and found coverage for half of what The HArtford is charging me. I called my local agent, whom I've been doing business with for 25 yrs, and told them I was disgusted with the service I have received over the years, and I was taking ALL my insurance needs elsewhere! They are supposed to look out for my interests, but they have been looking out for their interests first! So, fuck em! Sure, I got all the requisite "I'm so sorry you are dissatisfied" phone calls, but I just told them they had the chance to keep my business, but instead of trying to save me money, they were more interested in making themselves richer. SInce I started shopping arouond, I have found out just how badly they have screwed me over.
I'm not nice to people who try to screw me over. I get belligerent. I tell em like it is! If you want a persons business, you better do your job and get them the best deal you can instead of piling on expensive additional coverages and fees.They offered to switch me to SAFECO. I told them that is the one company I would never use. When I last had an auto accident claim, 13 yrs ago, I wound up having to call a CEOs assistant in Seattle to get anything done. And, I might add, she was really pissed that she was the only person I could make contact with (it was the week between Xmas and New years). I had waited six weeks for a damned adjuster to come out! She over-nighted me a check, and I cancelled coverage when i got the check.
We have to make these companies work for our business. They are not extending us a priviledge by taking our money, they have to do their damned job! I really think they think they are doing us a favor by giving us coverage. I want an agent that will shop the best prices for my interests. That's what I pay them for!

Damn, that wound up being a long rant.

[wolfgangmo]

202. I own a company

And I agree. Although 90% might be a little high for us small company owners who have higher cost to profit ratios.

Having said that I think that 90% as a top bracket would be fine. And I support a tax on gross profit - I can think of no better way to get companies to invest in personel and infrastructure than to force then to invest the money or lose it to the commons. I can tell you that a tax like that would motivate me.

[sandyj999]

237. B of A

I am in the process of moving my all my money from crappy B of A to a community credit union. I do know it can be a drawn out process having money in one bank and wanting to get it to another. I am just moving slow and sure having made two transfers the past six days. I guess when my cash begins to dwindle down at B of A will they wonder where it went? If they ask I have a ready answer for them. :grr:

[emsimon33]

243. This what we all need to do. Just stop using their banks, credit cards, loans, etc.

If we did that, if we had the courage and the nerve, then they would crash and burn and in the meantime we would be using local banks and credit unions who have a vested interest in their localities.

[willing dwarf]

273. You hit the nail on the head

There is something we can do. An organized effort to stop using credit cards would send shock waves through the economy. It would take planning though. Perhaps start with on day, or one eek where a large group used no credit cards at all. (My husband and I abandoned credit cards a couple of years ago. Once you get the cash flow straightened out, it is no problem).

[FriendlyReminder]

304. I will only use a local credit union and I pay off my credit card in full every month

I will NEVER use BOA or Wells Fartgo. Many years ago I had the worst customer service experience EVER with Wells Fartgo. I wanted to deposit some money in my account but did not have the account number or deposit slip. I showed my ID and told them the name on the account and the teller told me I needed to go across the lobby and pickup the white phone and call to get my account number. I told her that perhaps SHE could go across the lobby and pickup the white phone and get my account number. I told her it was HORRIBLE customer service and I was going to take that check I was trying to deposit and open a brand new account at the local Credit Union...GOOD RIDDANCE!

[superconnected]

119. cancer clusters - never heard of it, thank you VERY much for bringing it up.

I want to learn about it now.

[Lorien]

204. They have them in Marysville, Ohio, too-near the Scottslawn plant

America needs an army of Erin Brockovitchs these days. :-(

[rucky]

292. More irony about that:

Scotts screens all their employees for tobacco use and fires them if they test positive.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Terra Alta]

5. I'm so sorry...

I am not going to condemn you... you did what anyone would do... just trying to live out the American dream... and I second your "FUCK YOU" to Bank of America for ruining that for you. They are just set out to make as much money as possible, and screw the little people whose lives they ruin in the process!:grr:

I just wish I had some words of encouragement for you... I just hope your situation improves and you find a stable, good-paying job soon! :hug:

[wolfgangmo]

203. And wouldn't it be horrible if after you moved out....

That someone just happened to drop by and remove all the copper from the house and sell it for scrap?

Just sayin.

[eridani]

271. I would definitely not recommend that you revisit to remove the copper

--because that would be WRONG. :evilgrin:

[peacetalksforall]

6. Serious question / suggestion. I'm left with the feeling that it is B of A - I have a hard

time with any company involved with sub-primes and bailouts so I'm already slanted against them. But, do you think you could hook up with someone who has the same ratio of costs and incomes, but who has their mortgage with a credit union and figure out if anything so drastically distorted is happening to them? I don't remember anyone telling a credit union horror story.

I hope that you find a treasure place to live the first time or second time - one that will please you so that the day to day living will be comfortable and with much less anxiety. I hope all will be well in the end.

[louis-t]

91. I have a second with a local credit union.

They have been easy to work with. I asked about a loan mod. They said they would cut my payment in half, but it would have to be a 3-year balloon. I didn't like that idea, so I said no. They did let me skip 2 payments and it only cost me $35. It's 15-year, so the payment is high, but I paid off 9k in 4 years.

[northofdenali]

7. We're there, too.

:hug:

I am terrified.

[vanboggie]

8. Ditto to 'but for the grace of God' comment above

Our jobs can go at any moment and then we're just months away from being in your shoes. I hear your anger and frustration and wish you the best.
To hell with the evil SOB's - get out from under, hug your family, throw away that stress and start enjoying life again. BoA just totally sucks.

[notadmblnd]

9. if you're not behind, you've got at least a year.

Stop paying them anything now and stop paying your second mortgage too, then save that money. My mortgage company refused to work with me too. After three attempts at sending in documentation and them telling me that they didn't get it, they finally told me that they didn't think I would be able to make the payments if they did modify it for me, I gave up and stopped paying. I took my life savings, gave it to my sister and she put it down on another house for me. We closed in early Jan and I have spent the last few weeks moving. In April we will sit down and have a land contract drawn up to get it in my name. I now have a 50k mortgage instead of of 160k and HSBC isn't going to get a damn dime from me EVER!

[cutlassmama]

30. That was a really smart thing to do. Thanks for the tip.

[wolfgangmo]

205. One caveat.

Check with a real estate lawyer but ... don't have the house put in just your name. That way they will not be able to put a lien against it or a judgement against it.

You might want to look at a real estate trust that would leave your sister the owner but you in control of the property and responsible for the expenses.

[Jefferson23]

244. Good for you, bravo!

[PufPuf23]

10. I gave up and went through what was essentially a bankruptcy

self-managed as a reorganization in 2007 by selling assets and building tax credits by gifts of Indian sacred sites to the Tribe until I had no debt and a rural home of multiple blessings.

What starteded my financial meltdown was a long term major business bank calling a line of credit.

B of A was my long term (since late 1960s) personal bank and followed suit as my credit collapsed.

I stabilized and lost $ but built human relations and decided to not take risks and to be very skeptical of those that wanted my unusual skills.

[Doremus]

241. Sounds like you handled that extremely well. What is your unusual skill if you don't mind me asking

[EmeraldCityGrl]

12. Your getting off the economic grid...

and things will be much less stressful. Rent a house with a big yard
and build a wonderful vegetable garden. You'll save money and get
healthy while you're at it.

Wishing you and your wife the very best and like you said FUCK BofA TO HELL!

[paulflorez]

13. What about those of us who avoided debt and actually sacrificed to save up?

1) B of A was wrong to claim the wrong income for you. You should be able to get help if its available. I support offering people some help to attempt to assist them to keep their homes.

2) I did not make anywhere near what you made during the boom years. Even though I made less, I saved like crazy to try to scrounge up a modest down payment on a house. Today, I'm still struggling to try to get a home as bidding wars are occurring, amongst other things. I don't have an HD TV or even a flat screen, it's an old CRT television. I don't have cable television. Most of my furniture was bought used on Craigslist. I pay off my credit card balances every month. I used unemployment and my savings when I got laid off in 2007 and started saving immediately once I got a new job. I am frugal because I want to keep growing my down payment.

You should not have spent all that cash you had earned. You should have saved it, knowing you would need it in the future in case you lost your incomes. Either that or I'm an idiot for saving up all my money, and instead should have max out my credit in every way possible so that I could enjoy life in the short term and in the long term just walk away from my debts. Pardon me if I'm a little upset, but I haven't even been able to afford a dream home, let alone take out a loan against my dream home.

You should have planned for the long term, not the short term, just as the banks should have planned for the long term, not the short term and the government should have planned for the long term, not the short term. If everyone did that, we'd all be a lot better off.

Rant over. Now let's leave the horrible Naughties behind us, regulate the banks, keep corporations out of elections, support all our troops (including the gays), bring the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to an end, start rebuilding the middle class and work towards a real economic boom. Hopefully we can agree on most of those things.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shireen]

27. you should have, you should not have, ....

self-righteous lecturing. just couldn't help yourself, eh? :eyes:

[MUAD_DIB]

111. Some people step right into it. +1 for you.

There are stories like this all over.

I have a friend and a nephew whose houses are undervalued, and all it takes is one fucker at the bank to screw them over.


My heart goes out to the original poster, but why some others want to wave the finger at them is truly unbelievable.

[county worker]

159. I think the finger waving is just a way for them to get some kind of recognition that they otherwise

would never get.

All of us make poor decisions that cost us in the future. That finger waver just doesn't want to talk about his. He isn't frugal, he's broke most of the time that's why he doesn't have things. He should have learned by now that he can never save up for a down payment.

A lot of jobs like the OP had most likely did not have any type of retirement plan and chances are if they did he would never get vested.

Making house payments is a way to save provided the values go up. It is like any investment, you take a chance. The finger waver most likely throws money away each month on rent never getting any kind of return on the money. The economy was gamed by the powerful and most of us did not see it coming. The finger waver was forced by his situation to live like he does and should not get on a high horse.

[xiamiam]

can't rebuild the middle class unless this issue is addressed

millions more will lose their homes this year..or short sale because they still believe in the illusion..their confidence, pride, hard work, security ripped from underneath them as some sit by in judgment..middle class eroded and no end in sight.

the banks would rather foreclose or short sale and displace a family instead of reducing their principle to reflect the current market...some here still think thats for the best..it is not...i am sure the banks get more money for foreclosing than to work it out with the homeowner..its a joke..and a crime..and the individual is punished for the crime which made billions for the banks..

[Fire1]

73. From what I've read the banks are even having a hard time

selling foreclosed properties because they're asking for the original appraised price RATHER than the balance of what's owed on the previous loan (short sale.) I've only read about ONE actual "deal" that a buyer got in my area. He got a 557K house for 169K. Sales like this are far, few and in between.

[county worker]

162. I am looking at a bank owned home that is for sale. The bank wants

more than the market value or appraised value. You would have to be stupid to pay what the bank wants.

[Fire1]

172. Oh, for sure! But NOW, since they can't sell all this inventory,

deficiency judgments are on the rise, making the previous lender/owner of the foreclosed property pay the deficiency or balance of the loan! If someone can do a short sale PRIOR to foreclosure, it's better for the previous owner. Consequently, bankruptsy is going to be on the rise, too!

[county worker]

180. I am fortunate for now that I don't have those kinds of problems.

I did have them in the past. I lost a job and house and everything. I had a lot of depression, still do but it took years to get back. I really feel for all those who are being hurt by this economy and the financial crisis and the hosing bubble and unemployment.

I keep wandering what everyone is doing to survive. I'm sure some will never make it back, some will die and that maybe is figured in the lack of the government doing anything like a jobs program or a halt on foreclosures.

We could force the banks to let people stay in the homes and turn the loan into a lease option which reverts back to a mortgage at a future date. That way the bank still owns the property and if it doesn't become a new loan they get to keep the option payments.

[Fire1]

183. What you're suggesting has too much compassion involved.

:sarcasm: People ARE surviving because they know how to be poor. Many don't and sadly, they will fall through the cracks.

[truedelphi]

270. Your last ideas seem stellar to me, but the banks

Seem to really want to have the foreclosures happen.

Even though they end up selling the foreclosed home for about half of what the original owners were paying.

[Tansy_Gold]

229. There are short sales going on around my neighborhood all the time

Houses that sold for $350K four years ago are selling for $150K now. "Bank-Owned Short Sale" on zillow.

[notadmblnd]

309. yes, you would.

I bought a recent short sale. The original asking price was 125k. when I looked at the home It was listed for 94k. I offered 85k. It took 6 months but the bank finally accepted. when the home was appraised, it was only for 91k. I took what was left of my life savings and now I have a nice home with a 50k mortgage and a payment that is less than 1/3 of what I was paying. My other house, I gave it back.

[wolfgangmo]

207. If a bank short sells or forecloses then they get to write the loss off.

Which is how many of them don't have to pay taxes. Imagine if you could deduct your operating expenses such as groceries, cars, rent, health care etc from your gross.

And in the case of a short sale they are even able to transfer the tax burden to you, the poor schlub who just lost his house.

[county worker]

295. And now they get to spend unlimited money electing their cronies!

[Hello_Kitty]

70. Whoop de frigging do for you.

You know you are one job loss, illness, or other emergency away from being in the same position as those you so disdain for their "irresponsibility" don't you?

Oh and BTW, you do realize we live in a consumer based economy don't you? It's 70% of our GDP. The people buying flat screens and running up their credit have been keeping us afloat all these years since we don't really make anything here anymore. Chances are whatever it is you do for a living depends if not all, at least in part, on people spending money.

[NashVegas]

98. They Aren't Buying Flat Screens

They're charging them on their credit cards.

Debt = slavery

They're not keeping us afloat, they're keeping us in the hole and owned.

[Hello_Kitty]

100. Okay whatever, blame the little people.

Not the people responsible for suppressing wages for years and then wrecking the economy with their flagrant irresponsibility.

[laughingliberal]

256. +1000

And we laugh at working class Republicans who vote against their own interests. What's the deal? Are we just too many generations past Reagan for people to remember it wasn't always like this?

[cap]

282. nobody's buying flat screens anymore...

I poked my nose in at Best Buy at XMAS .... no shopping carts were overloaded with electronics... People were walking out empty handed or with very small bags, ie DVDs or small accessories.

Too bad, people weren't buying flat screens... There's lots of jobs associated with that.

[Lorien]

195. +1 nt

[bvar22]

97. You ARE one catastrophic illness,

or one serious accident that exceeds your insurance cap,
or one "act of god",
or one "frivolous" lawsuit,
or one "undisclosed pre-existing condition" (real or imagined),
away from the SAME situation,

no matter HOW safe you believe yourself to be.

[Lorien]

196. I sure learned that the hard way

I don't even have so much as a credit card, but I'm still deeply in debt from medical issues and job loss.

[Jamastiene]

314. Exactly.

I swear there is some unwritten law of the universe that says if you save a dollar, a problem will come up that will cost $1.50 to fix. Life is one constant fight after another. No one is really safe.

[notadmblnd]

121. People did plan for the long term.

I don't know about your investments, but I saw mind take a dive in 2007. I lost a minimum of 20k. so much for saving huh? Get off your high horse. Shit happens to people, unforeseen things occur under the best planning. Consider yourself lucky that you have made the right choices and that you will never be in a position that will cause you to undergo any financial difficulties what so ever in your life. Stay healthy, save that money (if the bankers don't steal it from you first) and remember, you're the superior one for making all the right financial choices:sarcasm:

[DesertFlower]

306. about 5 years ago, we

moved all of hubby's 401k from stocks to stable value fund. many of the people he works with lost a lot and have had to put off retiring.

[superconnected]

122. I see you're going to learn the hardway.

That is very clear. Hope you don't lose your job.

My house payment is $916 per month - less than 1/4th my monthly salary, and less than half of what I would get on unemployment. I have no debt other than my home loan. Beautiful house, great view. No problems here.

But I still know, that if I lost my job, and then my unemployment ran out, and I still couldn't find work, I would be in trouble.

You're an ass for your rant. You don't even own a home and you're getting out-bid because you can't afford what you're looking at. How dare you tell others how to spend or what they should do, are you a certified money manager? Didn't think so. You're not in this guys shoes by luck. The people I know who have lost their houses have been spend thrifts who lost their jobs then unemployment. So quit with the blame. You're an ass for going after this guy.

[mac56]

135. What an interesting way to kick someone when they're down.

Jackass.

[Lucky Luciano]

141. Blah blahblah. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

Live for today, bet on tomorrow, and enjoy life. I took a bath by not saving and getting picked off in the job market. Things are getting better and I am being more conservative, but I still live by that mantra above - it drives my girlfriend insane since she has much less risk tolerance than I do - you got one shot at life so aim high, take risks, and enjoy it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

151. What about those who avoided debt, sacrificed to save up...

and still had the economic rug pulled out from under their frugal feet?

What about those who spent like crazy, racked up massive debt and have the good fortune to remain gainfully employed so they can still pay off that debt?

Someone else's situation doesn't take away from the fact that this guy is hurting and angry.

[Jackpine Radical]

188. Shoulda, sholda, shoulda.

That is incredibly helpful to the OP just now, I bet.

First, he acknowledged a lot of that. Second, most people didn't expect the collapse--including a whole lot of people whose profession it is to know about those things. And third, where the hell is your human compassion? For someone in their late 40's or 50's, how long is he supposed to scrimp and save? When is that golden tomorrow going to come? After retirement? After death? He took a chance on getting the lifestyle he wanted. The bigshot financiers screwed him, like they did all of us. Let's quit blaming the victims of this mess.

[Fire1]

192. Here! Here! I damned sure didn't see it coming! n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

235. I did, but then I'm a pathological pessimist.

[tbyg52]

220. The two most infuriating words in the English language

when delivered to another adult, unsolicited: "Should have."

[cap]

281. you also did not go through a 50% pay cut like the OP

and a massive period of unemployment. The OP has 2 major strikes against him: a pay cut and irregular income. His assumptions were correct in 2004 by any standard of prudent financial management, but they were assumptions based on having a steady income.

Take your own little spreadsheet and do your personal numbers with periods of 50% of your income and then do it again with sporadic income. Then watch your savings dwindle down. Your assumption is a steady job with a constant income stream that allows you to plan. Lots of people are going from steady income stream to little or no income stream. Lots of jobs are going from steady paycheck to a variable, on-demand paycheck with the effect on salaries being nice annual salaries paid on regular basis to highly variable paychecks issued on an irregular basis. Start flipping the spreadsheets and planning for basic expenses and you will find it extraordinarily difficult to save money as you are paying late fees or using credit cards because the money is not in the bank when an obligation is due.

The only criticism that I can possibly have of the OP is that he did not cut expenses faster... but I can't say that if he had, that he wouldn't have ended up in the same place as he is now... but just at a later date. Having more savings would have just delayed the inevitable. Flip the spreadsheets and you can prove this to yourself.

The only thing saving the OP's hide is his wife's steady income at $50K. And I imagine the same goes for you. There is nothing like a steady job to help you plan properly for saving money.

[JVS]

16. How much was your monthly payment that you and the wife couldn't swing it on $86K?

[GiveMeFreedom]

20. Really?

$3100.00 a month, but hey, my life is an open book now.

[Pithlet]

21. It's why I never post anything about my personal life on here anymore.

It's ridiculous. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Dappleganger]

43. That's probably a wise decision.

Posts like this tend to bring out the trolls.

[Pithlet]

68. Because really, let's assume assume they're right and the OP brought it all on themselves

So, big whoop. You're right on the internet! What do you get for that? And what did you just do to someone who JUST LOST THEIR FRIGGIN HOUSE. What do you get? Confirmation that you're either the most clueless person on the planet socially, or what you just said. And as you say, the internet is full of people from both of those columns. It's not just DU.

[rd_kent]

112. So, that leaves you $48K a year to live on after paying your mortgage. You cant make that work?

[superconnected]

130. have you ever paid taxes before?

Have you ever had a pay check before?

Now subtract the 20-25% from taxes on top of his income, start adding things like medical insurance and since he's over 50 drug costs, bills - power, gas, phone, garbage, car insurance.

I can only guess you're someone who's never made over say 10 or 15 bucks an hour. Because those are the only people who do start acting like even 40k makes you rich.

[DesertFlower]

131. that's a hefty payment.

between hubby's salary and my disability we make more than you and your wife. we saved for years before building our dream home. we mortgaged $120,000. our payment without taxes and homeowners is $729.00 a month. in 7 years by paying an extra $300 a month on the principal our mortgage is down to $68,000.

high mortgage payments scare the hell out of me.

sorry you fell into the same trap that many people have. i know 4 people who did the same thing you did. they all lost their homes.

i wish you and your wife the best.

[cap]

283. so all of us... no matter how hard we work or take on extra duties

should never dare to have anything better than an entry level house, car, or food better than hamburger. It all might be taken away from us. Whether we do the extra work to get a better education or do the overtime, it's all for nought.

If we have kids and want a good education for them, we shouldn't try to live in that "better school district" with the more expensive houses and settle for a second rate education in a school district where we can afford the payments. Or we should live in a higher crime area because we can afford the houses there.

My sister lives in Wellsley MA (very expensive area) in the crappiest home because she has a special needs kid. A good school district provides the special ed that meets the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law as did her former place in Watertown MA where she lived in a reasonable townhouse.

You can afford your place because you have a steady income -- take away the constancy of those disability payments and let your husband's job go from being a nice steady income stream to an erratic one with the salary payments being made on time and you will end up in the same place as the OP.

Depending where you live, $3100 is not an outlandish figure in the Northeast for a mortgage. In a lot of cities in the Northeast, much less than $3100 starts getting you into less than stellar school districts or massive commute times. A $120K mortgage in a lot of cities gets you into the high crime areas.

[DesertFlower]

305. when we built our home which is

beautiful and in a great location, we took into account that hubby could lose his job. he's been with the company for 40 years and was eligible for a pension after 30. we've been in this house for 7 years.

the only reason we mortgaged $120,000 is because we saved the rest. the property was bought and paid for in '96 and we waited to build until 2002. our house is worth approximately $500,000. in 2005-06 it was worth $800,000.

we learned our lessons about living above our means when we lived in new york. we both made good salaries, but spent it all. when i hit my mid-40s i knew we had to change our lifestyle. we didn't own anything and were paying a lot in taxes. when we decided to move to the southwest we banked my salary for a year and put 20% down on a beautiful semi-custom home in a great area. that's when i got sick. we had always depended on my salary. fortunately his salary was enough for us to live on. we had a few scares when his company started cutting back jobs, but he's managed to hang in there.

my disability automatically changed to social security when i reached 65.

whatever we have is because we worked hard and saved. we made sure that we would not be in the same situation as the OP.


on edit: i wonder how much the OPs mortgage was before he took a second.

[superconnected]

128. Taxes take 25% before he even sees it.

What do you make, 10 bucks an hour? 85k isn't that much even if we was making over 100k so he could take 85k home. Do you eat top ramen?

[Hello_Kitty]

208. What difference does that make?

Why should he pay a shitload of money to service a debt on something that's now worth much less than he and his wife paid for it, especially since their financial situation has changed? And why should a regular person think about their situation any differently than a business person making a rational decision to default on a bad business debt? I say they should walk away with a clean conscience, stay in the house as long as they can without paying, and re-build their savings.

[Historic NY]

17. Screw B of A try it yourself....

http://makinghomeaffordable.gov/requestmod.shtml

[Vidar]

18. K&R.

[LeftyMom]

19. No offense, but on yours and your wife's income you're still rolling in it.

Not to the degree that you were, but that's a pretty substantial chunk of dough. Hell, you should be able to make the payments on a perfectly reasonable house on your wife's income alone, plenty of people do get by and live well on that much or less.

You made a bad decision (well two really, the second being darkening the door of Bank of America) and it came back and bit you in the ass. You're still better off than a pretty fair share of the country, including a lot of couples with two jobs between them, so if this is the biggest financial setback you ever face you're not really in a position to complain.

[GiveMeFreedom]

22. True,

just downsizing my dream. Of course living in Kalifornia all my life I have had to pay. Our gasoline is higher, insurance higher, taxes not so bad, but DMV is real high. And real estate is location, location, location, so my dream home here, is a mansion in South Dakota, (my apologies to my fellow Americans who live in South Dakota, just the first state that came to mind really.) So you are kind of right, If I lived in South Dakota $86k would be a king's ransom, but here in CA, not so much anymore.

[laughingliberal]

23. So sorry to hear that. We're just about to give up on ours.

I hope things work out for you.

[shireen]

28. i'm sorry to hear that.

hang in there ...

:hug:

[ChicagoSuz219]

24. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt...

I went crazy for two years trying to keep it all together & then finally said, "I'm done."

It's a shame and it was a relief.

Hang in there. The best is yet to come...

[TwixVoy]

25. They are right not to care about your W2s....

those only tell PART of the story. What is on your 1040s?

Do your 1040's match the W2s you have presented? If so why have you not sent your 1040's to BofA? Those will count a LOT more.

[GiveMeFreedom]

29. I have

not done my taxes yet. My employers wait till the end of January to mail the W-2's. It's now the 3rd, so will I get them done in time? I think B of A has a hidden agenda anyway and I am just going to let them have this place. I am done suffering their threats, calls, promises, and lies.

[SOS]

50. Bank of America

took a $118 billion backstop from the taxpayer (not TARP) to bail out Merrill Lynch.
But they can't restructure the principal on your house.
And the lackeys in Congress wouldn't pass first mortgage's to be included in bankruptcy.
And, most egregiously, the three trial payments are another Wall Street scam to get as much cash as possible before the foreclosure.
This DUer is in full solidarity with you.

[shireen]

26. i am so sorry to hear about this.

Your home is your refuge, your place to escape from the world. Losing it is devastating.

This is a temporary setback. You and your family will survive this and come out stronger for it. Those may sound like empty words right now, but as someone who has experienced more than my fair share of setbacks, I know what I'm talking about. You will be OK. Just hang in there and ride out the next few years. Another dream house is out there waiting for you when the time is right.

:hug:

[goldcanyonaz]

31. Banks don't give a fuck until you stop paying them. They are more likely to work with you

once you do this.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

32. That's awful

And I get the icky feeling that the cutoff for the program is most likely $132,999.99.

You tried to work with them. Don't give them another dime.

[DailyGrind51]

33. BoA made me produce a picture I.D. and a credit card to withdraw my own money!

[unapatriciated]

42. Be glad they did.

A year ago our bank accounts were emptied by someone posing as my husband.
They used a counter check and a phony ID. I wished my bank had asked for two pieces of identification, it would have saved us one huge headache.

[DailyGrind51]

212. Maybe yours was not an isolated case?

[spooky3]

254. Agree. When I went to the cashier to get my car after an oil change they asked for an ID

even though I gave them my credit card, which matched the name on the car. I thought it was odd but probably someone scammed them once so they are protecting themselves and the car owner.

I've been called twice in the past year by my credit card companies to alert me that someone had tried to use my number to buy something fraudulently. I was glad they did this.

It's just unbelievable how often this occurs.

And to the OP, I'm so sorry you've lost your house and have been so frustrated by the lack of help. I hope for better days ahead for you.

[Hannah Bell]

34. keep fighting if it's still possible i have a friend who had a similar ridiculous problem with boa,

it took a lot of phone calls to straighten out what was an obvious error on their part.

seems they like to try to steamroll people.

[slackmaster]

62. BofA isn't evil, they're mainly stupid

I'm dealing with a "Produce the Note" situation with them myself.

They put my name and SSN on a credit card that has been used exclusively by my ex-wife. The account has existed for over 15 years, and I only became aware of it last August.

BofA has not been able to produce defensible documentation of my liability for the balance.

I've been divorced for over 10 years.

[Hannah Bell]

133. no, they're evil.

[thotzRthingz]

35. very sorry to hear about your situation... I have friends, in both the

construction and realty business... they too are struggling (barely treading water, so to speak).

The way I see it, the BANKS have *ALL* of the cards stacked IN THEIR FAVOR. They alone decide to WHOM they will lend, and exactly HOW MUCH CREDIT they will extend. They aren't STUPID, they knew people would "default".

Not only do they have full control of LOANS to home buyers... they also have full control of LOANS to both the HOUSING and CONSTRUCTION sectors. A little manipulation here, a little more there... and pretty soon they're getting BILLION$ from the Gov't (whom they also mostly OWN--as in politicians, the FED itself, the FTC, state level SCCs, etc.). They also control the CREDIT CARD market...

Yep, they truly DO hold ALL of the cards... it's time for each & every American to take "regulation matters" into their own hands! We can do so by TAKING OUR MONEY out of the BANKS, and putting it into CREDIT UNIONS! I personally have never had my money in a BANK. for 40+ years I've been with the same CU... gotten all of my loans through them, have an excellent credit rating (whatever the hell that means)... have never been denied credit... have managed to SAVE some money, as their INTEREST RATES are very competitive (i.e., lower than most BANKS)... and have even been able to set aside more than ONE YEAR'S worth of living expenses, as an emergency NEST EGG.

My home is now paid for, I have no car payments, I maintain a month-2-month ZERO BALANCE and have never paid interest on my Credit Cards. IOW: I am "home free" (sort of... as one never knows what lies around the bend).

I'll be 60 this year... and I know the above is of little consolation to the OP ... but, I post it as an example for the youngsters here to consider.

[asdjrocky]

36. Sorry for your pain.

These banks are killing us.

Three friends and neighbors have lost their homes.

[Vinca]

37. One word for you: media.

Call the newspaper, call the television station, produce the letter from B of A (Bank of Assholes) and the W2s and force them to go on camera and tell the world they're making shit up. It makes no sense at all for them to screw you over because after they get the house they'll give it away to someone taking advantage of a bargain and will end up losing money.

[thotzRthingz]

38. i agree... take it to the MEDIA (local NEWS stations thrive on stories such as this)

[rug]

39. Righteous.

[eilen]

40. I'm sorry that you are going through this, I hate it for you.

BUT....

You and your wife will get through this. Try and just release your desire and hopes for this specific house. It is only a thing. What you and your wife have together is love and that is what is important. This hurts but consider, what about it smarts the most? It could be your pride at keeping it, your financial reputation. Consider these banks who were bailed out, you haven't been bailed out and yet they can make judgments about your integrity? It is all bullshit, it does not mean anything. Cut your losses. I'd wring the house out of everything I could to get a buck out of it and leave the shell for the bank. Sell as much stuff as you can because it costs money to store it and to move it. Screw the credit card companies and the banks. Don't give them your business. Work on cash. The system is gamed. These banks can't even add.

Go ahead and rent a house or apartment, go as cheap as you can. Declare bankruptcy and shed as much as you can from what they claim you owe. Work part time and enjoy your family. Readjust your standards for success. Travel. Get into fitness and health-- exercise every day, go hiking in national parks, experience all the things you could not before because you were working your ass off to pay off some stupid bank for a house and were too stressed out an exhausted for anything else. Be good to each other. Remember shelter is all that is really needed. You are a talented skilled craftsman and that cannot be taken from you. Do the parts you love and you will get customers. You will like your life much more.

Peace.

[Dappleganger]

44. This is a good post.

I'm pulling for you, too.

[tomm2thumbs]

67. liked your thoughts - thanks for putting it in perspective

[Ishoutandscream2]

75. Wish I could recommend your post.

A very healthy perspective.

[Flying Dream Blues]

76. These are wise and healing words, eilen.

What a contrast to the trollfest that is a major part of this thread. You are one of my favorite posters; I wish I could have said what you did so well.
:hi:

[pengillian101]

251. Great advice! n/t

[tilsammans]

263. Agree!

The best things in life aren't things. I lost my job in June and am still not working. :( But even though I lived quite frugally, I also realized how much the stuff I did have was weighing me down.

And to those who are slamming the OP, claiming they'd "love to have his problems": You don't know the whole story. He can't possibly post it all here. And until you walk in his shoes, you'll never know.

Peace. :grouphug:

[Frank Cannon]

41. Except for some of the details, your story is mine

If it's any comfort at all, I know exactly what you're going through.

I only wish I had some advice for you. I find that the song "Tubthumping" by Chumbawamba, played full blast every evening, is a small amount of help. It helps to know that you WILL survive and thrive no matter what the bastards do to try to constantly fuck you over.

[AngryAmish]

45. Why do you think the banks, the government, anyone to "give a fuck"?

The world is indifferent to our suffering.

[upi402]

46. Same here but with USBank. But I downsized bigtime very early

I have not lost mine yet but DO qualify for TARP - housing affordable-

But USBank want to keep me at the higher rate and claims I don't qualify. They delayed and delayed until I lost my job - which was down to 20 hours anyway.

We may leave the country as the "Democrats" are on the other team. Nobody is on our side. If immigration wanted to do it's job it would drive by HomeDepot or Lowes and round up the illegal workers taking our jobs. But business doesn't like that.

Just before I lost my job I was screamed at in the parking lot for questioning the practice of using illegals on the jobsite. It's cemented as common practice now. We are disposable, and therefore America as we knew it is disposable. All hail the Uniparty!

All hail the Uniparty!

[Odin2005]

47. The lack of compassion in this thread is NAUSEATING.

:puke:

[cbdo2007]

48. Not any less nauseating than people making poor decisions....

He says it himself numerous times...."sure we got caught up in the easy money", "so we took out a second"

So basically he put himself underwater in his mortgage even BEFORE the housing market collapsed as I'm guessing their second mortgage was based on some fake ass "appraised" value rather than what they paid for the house.

I have some friends in a similar situation. They bought a house for like $100,000 in 2005 but when they got it appraised it appraised for $115,000. The house had been on the market for $100,000 for 6 months when they bought it so it obviously wasn't that much of a steal. Still, they got a second mortgage for the additional $15,000 - not for home improvements but to travel with and stuff knowing they could always fall back on that appraisal.

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. Opinions and assumptions seem to have the same ubiquitous nature.

I don't recall the OP saying what value the second mortgage was based upon. It may very well not having anything remotely similar to your friend's situation. Then again, it might. We just don't know.

In my own case, my husband and I bought our house in 2002. By 2005 it had almost doubled in appraised value. The comps in the neighborhood were mindblowing. We took out a second mortgage in early 2007.

Now many people might assume we took out a huge second mortgage because our appraised value had skyrocketed. In truth, we took out a fairly modest loan to pay off hurricane repairs our insurance deductible didn't cover, get a new roof and do other odds and ends around the property that most people probably wouldn't even notice. The combined value of the two mortgages was approximately 80% of the purchase price in 2002. Before housing prices went nuts.

Then comes 2008. Foreclosures and short sales abounded in our neighborhood. Comps have fallen below our original purchase price to just around what we owe on the two mortgages combined. We looked into refinancing and a) the bank was reluctant to do it because the new loan amount would be between 95-100% of appraised value and b)we were reluctant to do it because the new loan amount would force a PMI requirement on it making our loan payments increase rather than decrease even with the better interest rate.

I have sympathy for the OP because none of us have a crystal ball though some seem to think their hindsight consistutes 20/20 foresight. I have admiration for those who took prudent precautions and are not experiencing the stress of the financial crunch. I have very little patience for the Monday morning quarterbacking since not a single one of us was privy to his family's unique situation and there to give our guidance at the time. He's hurting and angry. As a fellow human being I feel for him and hope his situation turns out for the better soon.

[cbdo2007]

61. It's all based on perspective....

If you had posted in 2005 and said, "Wow, things are great. We just bought a house in 2002 and now the value has doubled!!!" you would be lambasted on this forum as being rich and for scamming the previous homeowner because you got lucky.

You didn't sell and your property dropped in value just like everyone elses in the country. This only means it's worth less if you freak out and decide to sell for the big loss because you convince yourself that the world is caving in all around you.

Conversly, if you hold on and keep making your payments like usual, everything is going to be fine and your house will gain value again at a more realistic pace. I'm sure you're not going to complain then, right?

I have sympathy and compassion for people going though difficult times but rather than be grateful for the years the OP had on top, spending money like it was going out of style, he waits until times are bad to get his sob story and blames everybody else.

[laughingliberal]

95. "your house will gain value again at a more realistic pace."

Yeah, guess it depends on how old you are. Estimates in my area don't see my house returning to the amount I owe on it in my lifetime (in my 50's).

[PassingFair]

63. Even those who took "prudent precautions" are feeling the stress.

“ Reckless fools lost first because they deserved to lose, and careful, wise men lost later because a world-wide earthquake doesn’t ask for personal references. Edwin LeFevre, 1932




Notice the year on that quote....

I personally have little to no credit card debt (paying a bit on X-mas charges),
we bought our home in '95 for well below the market value and didn't take any
equity on it...

BUT...

We live in Michigan, where unemployment is eroding everyone's life.
My pay as I go lifestyle has left only small amounts in savings, and
I have two teenagers that will soon be needing a college education.

My paychecks have gotten smaller in the past few years, my husband
hasn't had a real job in over 6 years.

If I lose MY job, and there is every possibility of that, we will be
in the same places as those that overextended.

I have absolute sympathy for ALL who are going through this crisis.
The trauma in the "real economy" is small potatoes to the BILLIONS
being kited around in the "casino world" of Wall Street, so Wall Street
gets the bail out and we bear the brunt.

:cry:

[rd_kent]

116. You need to read the entire thing again and his responses.

Took a second, knowing it was a bad move.

Also, says his current income (him and wife) is $86K/year. Mortgage payment is $3100.mo, leaving $47 K to live on. Failing to see a problem here.

[Pithlet]

53. Well maybe you'll get lucky

and he'll tell you when the big day comes so you can watch as they throw him and his family out, so you can feel better.

[LanternWaste]

81. As the OP's situation was not a direct choice

As the OP's current situation was not a direct choice, and as the base, pejorative condemnation of the OP's decisions are, I'm going to say: Yes-- it is quite a bit more nauseating than poor decision making.

But then again, it's not merely by money we illustrate our class...

[cbdo2007]

102. It actually was a direct choice. Did you not read the OP? He even blames himself

for spending too lavishly during the good times. I doubt he was complaining about his high-class lifestyle at the time and about how it was unfair.

[LanternWaste]

106. I did read it-- thanks for your concern

I did read it-- thanks for your righteous concern, though.

It was a consequence of many, many choices-- both direct and indirect spread out over a period of years. I imagine that if someone as slow witted as I can infer that obviousness, the vast majority of others would too.

"I doubt he was complaining about his high-class..." I doubt most people complain about things when the world looks good- regardless (about as banal and pointless a statement as can be offered...).

[rd_kent]

117. The OP states his current income is $86K/year.

His mortgage is 3100 a month, leaving $47 K to live on. He cant make that work? WTF?

[Pacifist Patriot]

126. That's great in theory, but...

There is a difference between gross and net. Let's not forget Uncle Sam's cut. There are also cost of living variances that can make a big difference. My family's salary is great where we live but I wouldn't want to move to California without a HUGE pay jump. If he's like most family's that mortgage isn't the only debt payment each month. Yes, these are all assumptions but it's probably safe to say your $47K figure is both simplistic and inflated.

[rd_kent]

129. Im not saying it won't be difficult...

but I fail to see how, even after taxes (much of which will get returned after filing) they cannot tighten the belt and live on $47K.


Perhaps he SHOULD just walk away from the house. They still have a very substantial income to live on.

[cemaphonic]

139. yeah, our household income is right around his, but our mortgage is about half

A $3100 mortgage would sink us too.

[readmoreoften]

99. People making poor decisions is nauseating? Huh?

You work with what you know at the time. Jeez.

[peacetalksforall]

113. There are a lot of pp's here =

perfect people.

Income and spending is all relative.

There are hundreds of reasons that we don't all do things the way everyone else does it - with the ultimate ain perceived safety and wisdom and intuition, etc.

[rd_kent]

114. ONe can have compassion and at the same time

point out the fact that if he pays his mortgage he still has $47,000 a year to live on. I think many of us fail to see what the problem here is.....

[Pacifist Patriot]

169. I think part of the problem is speculation.

People are speculating that this $47,000 is a fixed guaranteed number (which it appears it is not) and speculating that the other household expenses and financial obligations fall within a certain range (which they may not). We have absolutely no idea what obligations they have that make the remaining estimated $47K gross a problem for their family. We can insert our own circumstances into the scenario and make judgments based on that, but then that's all just speculation.

[haele]

233. Probably not. He's in his late fifties having worked a skilled labor job

That probably is starting to affect him medically. He lives in California, with last year, an approximate income of $85K or so. BTW, in some California locations, $85K would be considered lower middle class income. The kind of income where a "without frills" paycheck to paycheck can't really save anything lifestyle with one working paid off car is about where you are.

So, right off the top, take 20% in taxes. Remember, he's probably not paying taxes on unemployment, so that ends up costing more at the end of the year, so he's got to estimate how much he has to save to cover that when taxes are due.
Does his wife have a 401K? Take 2 - 5% off her income.

Cost of medical. Since they make over the limit and under 65, Medicare is not that cheap an alternative. Her work insurance, if she has it, is probably cheaper. But still, they're probably paying at least $1K - $1500 in premiums every month for the two of them.
If they aren't paying for insurance, all their medical will be out of pocket. If they're lucky, only the annual check-ups and medical issues that can be handled OTC. If there's a chronic illness with just one of them, they're most likely paying an extra $100 - $400 a month just in medical bills.

Utilities might not be that expensive, but then again, if all the appliances are electric, they might be. Just basic utilities - gas/electric, water, and sewer - run $2K - $3K a year in most places in California. That's not counting phone, or cable, or internet access, which might be another $1200 a year.

Transportation - the required by the state cheap insurance for one car is around $50 - $100 a month, or more, depending on what you have and where you live. Public Transportation is hit or miss depending on your locale, so pretty much everyone has a car. Add registration, fuel, and maintenance costs, one vehicle can easily put you back $2K a year, if it's paid for.

Kids - are they supporting one or multiple children? Even supposedly self-sufficient college children can drain the family coffers.

Depending on whatever critical costs they have, that much envied "$47K left over after mortgage" a year quickly becomes $20K after expenses a year. Enough to live reasonably comfortable on and still be able to put about $500 a month in savings, to be sure.
But enough to be green-eyed about, though. Just enough that apparently some people who are trying to get by with taxes and the same necessary living expenses plus a mortgage or rent while making $45K or $50K a year can sneer at them like they were Jr. VP's at an investment firm...

But honestly, $20K - $25K a year after expenses certainly isn't enough to pay an additional adjustment on a mortgage that's based on, say, earnings six years ago when one bought the property. And that's what the commentary should be about, not "you screwed up dude, so take your medicine and go pack your family up to live in a minivan by the mall like the rest of the greedy losers..."

Haele

[dugaresa]

49. Your situation could be any one of us. I have complete compassion for you

the only thing I can offer is this:

Have you tried calling your local reps and explaining this? Go to their offices in person with copies of your W2's and ask them why the system isn't working for you. Hell if you don't mind, call a news station.

You are trying to live the dream and do the right thing but the bank is not making it any better.


I also have a message for the people who judge you. Beware, it can be you next. That solid job you think you have, it could be gone in a flash. The health you enjoy right now, gone tomorrow.

[Fire1]

84. Absolutely. n/t

[madmax]

52. My son is in the same position except

He's disabled but, recievesd SS Disab. His wife works commision which has caused her weekly paycheck to shrink from about 800. a week to 300.

They are going to save as much as they can between now and foreclosure, which won't be a heck of a lot. The good news is that a least they will be able to rent an apartment.

[Jennicut]

54. No one would give us a loan for $12,000 to pay off credit cards and past due bills

So we borrowed money from my parents. It is sad that this is what we have to do today. We have almost paid all of the money back to my parents, but it was rough on my husband to have to ask them for help. And we only have one credit card that we barely use.

[closeupready]

55. No, you're correct, your elected official do not give a fuck about you; they give a fuck about their

campaign finance donors, and will bail them out of bad bets, risky loans and just general economic bad times.

[DisgustedInMN]

56. That just plain sucks.

And you are probably correct. Your government really doesn't give a fuck, 'cuz if they really did, they would have done something about at some point during the last year. We all know what they spent the last year instead... capitulating to every demand put to them by the corporate lackeys that PRETEND they have out best interests at heart.

Add 5 years to your age and you have pretty much described my situation, except we've managed (so far) to keep the wolves away. I can't even get a callback for ANY job, let alone an interview. I'm 2 weeks from UI benefits running out. Hanging by my finger tips over the abyss...

.. and now, finally the Prez and the Dems are going to "do something" about a "jobs program?" Well just fucking peachy. That ought to help me (and you, my fellow construction worker) in what..

.. 5 years, 6 years...????

Judging by our "leaders" brilliant handling of the health care issue, that's probably too optimistic.

Anyway, unlike a Clintonite, I actually feel your pain, I'm living it.

[WilliamPitt]

57. This is one of the harshest, most fucked up threads I have ever seen on DU

Some of you fucking people, I swear to God.

[Ishoutandscream2]

80. No kidding.

The lack of compassion by some here is making me ill. Watch out those of you who think this couldn't happen to you, because Instant Karma is gonna get ya!

[FourScore]

118. Ditto. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

123. They think they're immune

They are one job loss and several months of unemployment away from losing everything they have.

NOBODY is exempt now.

Will, thanks for speaking up. I can't believe the shit that passes here nowadays for "democratic values".

[Dappleganger]

150. +1

[Pacifist Patriot]

154. Agreed

[Spheric]

132. I have to agree.

Kicking people when they are down has apparently become a team sport around here.

:-(

[Justpat]

221. welcome to DU n/t

[Dappleganger]

149. It's quite revealing.

I've read more people's comments which sound like RW meme's than even on a RW forum. It seems that some are coming up very short in the area of compassion and reality.

[Pacifist Patriot]

175. I haven't had the luxury of lurking on DU in quite some months.

Unfortunately, this is what I came back to. Too many comments ooze ignorance and jealousy. It's sad really.

[Midlodemocrat]

206. No fucking kidding. It's disgusting.

No wonder I don't come over here much anymore.

:puke:

[Pacifist Patriot]

215. It has done wonders for my Ignore list.

[JuniperLea]

230. Way to fuck with their own karma banks...

Karma's a bitch... she's going to have a field day with some of these assholes. I can almost hear her winding up for the smackdown.

[earth mom]

58. So sorry to hear what you are going through.

I am convinced that the system has been gamed to screw the middle class out of years of hard work and wages.

Wall Street doesn't need to look for new corporations to profit from when they can easily steal wealth from the middle class!

Millions of people in this country are sitting ducks and are hanging on for dear life and they know it.

After they steal our homes, they are coming for our Social Security, no doubt in my mind.

[closeupready]

105. Oh, you know it. Social security is the only thing we have left. Why not take that, too?

:mad:

[wryter2000]

59. I'm so sorry

They set up the system to screw people like you.

I can honestly say, "There but the grace of God go I, too." If I lost my job, I'd be in the exact same position as you. Even with my job, it's a struggle to keep my head above water.

Comfort yourself with the fact that your nightmare will soon be over and you'll only have a rent payment you can afford.

BTW, if you have trouble with renting because this mess has affected your credit score, find an individual or couple who only have one or two rental properties and tell them your situation. Show them your pay stubs, etc., to prove you can make your rent. Big renters may not be able to accept you because of your credit score, but individuals can. My husband and I got screwed by one of Ronnie Raygun's recessions. We were able to rent a house because we appealed to the better nature of a couple who was renting a house.

[slackmaster]

60. I think you correctly identified your mistake as taking out that second

I'm sorry for your loss.

As bad as they may seem, BofA does NOT want you to lose your home. They're playing by a set of rules imposed by the federal government.

I suggest you speak to your members of Congress.

[FirstLight]

64. Same thing happened to my sister last fall

They are house sitting and couch surfing with 2 kids now...

He was a painting contractor in the Bay area and she had a retail job...everything went downhill in 2008.

They did the 3 payments too, and were rejected as well. Don;t know all the details, but the story sounds so familiar.
It isn't just the banks.
Obama said he was going to do this whole "special program' to help people stay in their homes... but isn't the statistic something like less than 10% of people actually 'Qualify' for this help?

It's all bullshit, you are right.

I am so sorry for your loss... I hope you and your wife have some time to get your ducks in a row before they come to change the locks :cry:

Perhaps some kind of revolution isn't so far off, if enough people lose their livelihoods and homes and are reduced to the nomad's life...we will have nothing to lose by standing up and saying NO MORE

one thing is for sure, I doubt if we will ever see our economy or country looking like it did 5 years ago. Our entire economic system is going to change... local communities and bartering will become the norm once again...

wampum beads, anyone?

[jotsy]

65. My home of 15 years was bought at an auction on Monday, January 25.

The original loan amount was just under $73,000. We have made $100,000 in payments but not seen as having an equitable stake in the property. How we got here is a result of no work from October 08 to March 09. We were already struggling as a result of changes in the wage structure. My spouse became an electrician in '96 which at the time included benefits as well as vacation and holiday pay. By 2004, not only were employers no longer offering that kind of compensation, the wage, in and of itself had gone down. We tried to gather ourselves, moved the credit debt to a second mortgage, and then worked for a general who wrote rubber pay checks, we got our money...3 months later. I had called the labor department, the contractor's board, even the local police and DA, I thought it was illegal to knowingly write bad checks. I was repeatedly and consistently instructed to obtain a lawyer, which I set in search of, but told by that crowd they wouldn't be interested in pursuing a matter where money was an issue. No slice of pay for them, they passed, tyvm. So by the end of the first quarter of 09, he's finally back to work, but we're 90 days out on the mortgage, we sent the mortgage service company two and a half house payments to enter a loan modification program, assured that every penny we sent would apply to overdue payments, but instead they used what we sent them to initiate the eviction process. He talked to them the weekend before and was assured again that the house was not to be auctioned, but on Monday night some perky little thing in a trendy trench coat knocked on my door and said she was represented the buyer, who wants us out in 10 days.

We have two grown kids, our youngest is thirteen and has never lived anywhere else, she's trying to be tough, and she's trying real hard not to see us as losers. I've raised my kids in the vein of Forest Gump, "pretty is as pretty does" I've always told them. It's hard looking at all of them wondering how to explain why such an ugly world is seeing such significant gain.

You're not alone. It's our peeps that are precious, the rest is window dressing.

[tomm2thumbs]

69. sorry to hear that news - seems you have your head on straight and that is the main thing

your smarts will get you through more than money ever will - and wish you great luck in getting things back in order. Hang in there and keep your wits aboutcha - they can do wonders for the important things in life - family, friends and a sense of self.

Wishing you a better 2010!

[PassingFair]

240. That flat out BLOWS, Jotsy!

Oregon has had it ROUGH.

I have a 14 year old and an 18 year old.
They would have a hard time, too.

You guys will land on your feet.

Keep your chin up!

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. This is a hard time.

My personal view of finances is that it's all about net worth.

This might sound harsh, or an unwanted 'look on the bright side', but if you were upside down on your house, say $20,000, then BoA has just increased your net worth $20,000. Also, you are no longer vulnerable to additional drops in the market. Businesses or people with less character would have simply chosen to default because it's economically rational.

Anecdotally, banks are more likely to foreclose when the homeowner has equity or is a little upside down than when they're radically upside down. I wonder how quickly they'd foreclose on a $2m house on which the outstanding debt is $3m.

If neither you nor your wife are working, and you aren't tied to a house, it is now possible to relocate if you wish.

[Hello_Kitty]

71. I lost mine in November. So sorry. And to everyone weighing in here to lecture you:

Go Cheney yourselves. Seriously.

[david_vincent]

82. I, too, side with Hello Kitty, Jotsy, and

other posters in completely supporting you. It seems clear that BoA does have an agenda to get you out. Unfortunately, you've learned a very hard lesson about the nature of banks. Credit unions are the way to go in the future, and preferably a values-based, community CU.

[blondeatlast]

72. I'm so sorry. A tense divorce means we have to short sell--if we even can find

a buyer for our home.

It hurts--and you are so damn entitled to anger.

[renate]

74. Is there a B of A branch near you?

I know that ONE person at B of A told you that they don't care about your W-2 form. That ONE person could just be 1) wrong and/or 2) incompetent.

I find it really difficult to believe that, if you have your paperwork in order and can prove your income, they are legally entitled to just plain ignore it. If they are wrong and you are right, please don't give up after talking to just ONE person who probably wanted to get back to their coffee break and didn't want to take the time to deal with you appropriately.

Honestly, I cannot tell you the number of times I have fixed a snafu like this simply by calling, repeatedly, until I get someone who knows what they are doing. The person you talked to should NOT be the arbiter of your homeowning future. They were in all likelihood wrong to tell you that your W-2s don't matter.

Please, please, please call again, or make a personal appearance if you can get to a B of A. If you are right and they are wrong, keep calling or talking until you get someone who can explain to your personal satisfaction why you were declined. Please don't give up.

:hug:

[Fire1]

101. I was told that these decisons are ultimately up to Fannie Mae.

I was told this by a representative from the Home Preservation Office. So, contacting BOA just may be a waste of time. I'd say try contacting a supervisor at Fannie Mae.

[Hosnon]

77. Consider contacting a bankruptcy attorney. nt.

[David Zephyr]

78. GiveMeFreedom,

This really pisses me off because BofA should not have toyed with you giving you the illusion that your trial payments provided an opportunity to stay in your home. It's friggin' cruel.

My daughter and her husband bought a new home before selling their old one (even though I'd harped to them to stay put or to sell first) and now they are stuck with a house that won't sell and the financial strain is causing them to stress out and hurting their relationship.

Eilen above had some wise words that were compassionate and yet optimistic.

There are folks all over the country now renting great homes for a dime on the dollar and keeping the extra cash every month to themselves.

I've howled here for nine months now that the President was fiddling around with healthcare instead of working on the two fronts that Americans expected him to: 1.) new job creation (not government job retention); and 2.) ending the housing crisis. He did neither. Now he's addressing jobs, but there is still silence from the White House on the foreclosure nightmare even as the banks pocket all of our tax money.

Don't stay angry. We are nearly the same age and it is not good for your heart or health. You and your wife are not that house. Stay there as long as you can and save every dime. And then shake the dust off of your feet when you leave.

Why in the hell are we pissing away $2 Trillion in foreign wars, maintaining hundreds of military bases around the world, underpinning Enronian crooks in the banks while neglecting our own citizens?

GiveMeFreedom, I hope everyone at the DU reads your rant. Please keep us updated.

[Flying Dream Blues]

79. You are right to feel outraged and betrayed.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I think what eilen said above is the best thing on this thread. I wish for you and your wife to find yourselves relieved of this burden of worry, and in a new life of peace and more simplicity, with all that you need.
:hug:

[Cleita]

83. I'm very sorry that you have lost your home.

Home ownership was at the center of the American dream. It was the reward you got for hard work and good citizenship. Now it's just a joke. I would like to see the banks go back to being chartered by state. Back when Bank of America wasn't allowed to expand beyond California, they couldn't get away with the kind of thievery banks are allowed to legally perform today. :hug:

From what I understand, it takes them awhile to come and physically eject you. I heard of a couple who stayed in their home rent free for two years before the bank had time to do something about it. It gave them some time to save money when they finally did end up in the street. Incidentally, save that money in a local credit union or community bank.

[democrank]

85. Hang in there

Ignore any...I`m so terrific nothing bad will ever happen to me...posts and know that many of us are in your corner. Take care.

[Sunnyshine]

86. Sorry GMF. Can hardly stand here and take it one more minute. Families are really struggling.

Main St. deserves bold responses and direct actions from our governing bodies. Look how fast they jumped to bail out banks.
Why is that when they need something- it happens in a matter of days or weeks. If the people need something- that takes months and years.
Banks are just sitting on our money. Wall St. always has the upper hand. There are too many unregulated obstacles for us to over come all by ourselves.
Keeping money and markets confined to the few is more important than taking action to stimulate and sustain the future of America's families.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

87. A lot of us are on the edge

especially we self-employed types. Business is down, there's no doubt about that.

And I know several middle-aged people, people who've worked all their lives, who can't find jobs at any price.

Perhaps we boomers need to resurrect some of that 1960s spirit.

[Fire1]

120. I'm in! n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

165. Indeed.

I am ordained clergy whose congregation can only afford part-time ministry. Read that as quarter-time, not half-time. No benefits. Pittance would be the word.

I perform independent weddings aside from my congregational duties and business is definitely slower heading into 2010.

Additionally I am now looking at getting a part-time clerical job 25-30 hours a week.

A middle aged woman with advanced degrees who will be darned grateful for the data entry position if she gets it.

I'm not sure I know anyone these days who isn't on the edge when it comes to their financial situation. I am definitely fielding more requests for assistance from the church than ever before.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

88. I sincerely wish you and your family the best

[hellsbeagle]

89. I lost my house in 2008 after I was scapegoated for a derailment.

Now I am 47 years old and my life savings are gone, I am stuck working at a union-busting outfit in Virginia for one third the pay I was making before. So far I have been waiting 18 months for a NMB referee to get of their ass and make a decision in my case so that I can go home to my family in Texas. And none of the organizations that are supposed to help/protect me gave a FUCK.

GiveMeFreedom, my brother/sister, I will be standing right next to you on the barricades once the shit goes down. And so will my dog.

It is time to hit the streets!

[laughingliberal]

96. Let me know when to meet you at the barricades

The fact that we still have people who support the plutocracy here on a Democratic website does make me wonder if we'll get there in my lifetime but I'm ready.

[Hello_Kitty]

104. Yeah, these $30,000 DLC Millionaires we got here are getting on my last nerve

They defend everything from outsourcing to union busting to privatizing the schools and I'm sick of them.

[tavalon]

90. The only weapon these companies have is shame

and unfortunately, it works. I went through a foreclosure before this latest rash of foreclosures. I also went through bankruptcy and had to deal with a lot of Puritanical guilt but I eventually understood that while I made bad choices, it was made immanently easy to get myself in over my head. And now the credit card letters have started coming again, but I will not ever have another credit card and am not sure if I care to ever own a home again. We're in a stable rental house situation and since I've been a homeowner before, I know how to take care of a house so it's a win/win for us and the landlord.

[undergroundnomore]

92. when my husband lost his

job we lost more than half of our household income. My husband was an engineer. He'd always been told what a great job he was doing, received a couple of awards, etc. Then the day before Thanksgiving about 14 months ago he was called up to HR and given the news. Within eight months the plant where he worked was closed down.

We had bought my dream home the year before he got laid off. We didn't take out a second mortgage, we had disability insurance (through his job) we had life insurance (through his job) so if something happened to him we could still make the payments. That is if that something wasn't being laid off.

Since his salary was double my salary there was no way that we could make the payments because the loan had been based on that figure.

I can still remember sobbing on the phone and whispering into the receiver, "I can understand why sometimes cops come to foreclose on homes only to find the residents dead. I told them I wanted to kill myself and I really did feel that way."

Throw in the fact that I am caring for my father-in-law and I can assure you that there is no time for me to get a second job.

We lost that home and no one cared. We were just a statistic. Just a couple who played by the rules and got the BIG F U.

Even now we are working to put our life back together. I realize though that we are still in a better position than most because I have a job and that job offers us insurance. I wish I could do more to help those who need help but we are doing all we can right now.

I'm sorry that you are suffering. I wish I knew what to say but know that the people are a group too big to fail and we won't.

[Jester Messiah]

93. That's fucked up. (The situation, not your rant.) Best of luck to you... [nt]

[readmoreoften]

103. I feel ya. Welcome back to realizing that you're working class and that your owners don't give a

shit about you. (That's George Carlin, not me.)

I'm immorally and irresponsibly in debt for going out and getting a Ph.D. (I should've WORKED while I was getting my Ph.D. I should've SAVED... oh wait, I did.) Now I'm trying to get by on my low-pay gig. (Right, I should've gotten my Ph.D. in something more PRACTICAL. Oh wait? It is practical. Okay it should've been MORE practical.)

Right-wing memes abound don't they? Best of luck.

[quakerboy]

257. No f-ing joke

At least with a house you can walk away. Student loans, as far as I can tell, stay with you no matter what.

[FourScore]

107. TELL THEM TO SHOW YOU THE NOTE!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4974235

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5079831

How much you want to bet they will renegotiate?

[saracat]

108. I am so sorry. This is exactly why those who want to view politics as a team sport

or act as though they are members of a fan club scare the bejezus out of me. We need ACTIONS out of DC, not rhetoric. Why can't the people of America be treated as well as the banks? Why can the WH intervene and save the banks butt but not that of the citizens? And please, none if the "macic wand cracks! That "magic wand" got waved plenty for the banks! And exceutive orders seem real handy except for anything benefiting the people!:mad:

[rd_kent]

109. Respectfully, your income now is $86K a year...hardly living in poverty.

But even paying your monthly mortgage, that leaves you just under $50K a year to live on. You cant make that work?

Perhaps you should look at what you are spending the rest of your income on.......

[superconnected]

124. lets not forget a quarter of your income is taken out in taxes before you see it.

[rd_kent]

127. And?

Much of it will be returned after filing. All that interest on the loan, and many other deductibles. I am not saying "fuck you, this is your problem" to the OP, just wondering how he and his wife (he has not stated anywhere that they have kids) cannot make due on $86K a year. Even if they walked away from their house, they still have $86K a year to live on, right?

[superconnected]

136. No, they have 86k a year and take away - 20-25% of that in taxes, then

If they lose their home they don't get that back in interest anyway. And expecting to get it back from the irs is the equivelent of spending $1 to save .5 cents, anyway.

Plus, they have bills - medical insurance, car insurance, gas, power, phone, etc. The most they take home is 60 some thousand, and that's if they both had jobs - they don't. Then they have their house payment to take out of it.

Plus you need to re-read - he doesn't make 85k even before taxes - that was while he was employed half the year and added his wifes income to it, and added his unemployment.

[rd_kent]

164. No, you need to re-read.

He said his wife makes 50K as a teacher, he works part time making 15-20K and his unemplyment was 15K.

Nonetheless, we are arguing about nothing here. Even if he has to walk away, they will not be living on the street.

[Missy Vixen]

294. Oh, really?

>Even if he has to walk away, they will not be living on the street.<

Wait till he tries to find anywhere to rent with the credit battering that comes with a possible foreclosure. If he gets through the credit issues, he's going to spend a small fortune in deposits as well.

Those who live on the West Coast also know that a family income of 86K on the West Coast is nowhere near "rich".

[Midlodemocrat]

312. No, it isn't.

$86 in San Francisco? Or NYC? Or the Chicago burbs?

Good fucking luck ekeing out anything resembling a life after you pay your rent.

I am loving the 'lecturers' telling this poor guy what he did wrong and how they are so much better than he is because they didn't fall into that trap.

$86K ? Sure as shit doesn't go very far when you're laying out $9K a month for private health care for your father after your mother dies. As I did. I couldn't arrange to get him down here fast enough and he needed 24/7 care.

But, I probably should have posted something here to ask the 'experts' what my options were.

What a fucked up thread.

:loveya:

Missy!!!!

[leftygolfer]

293. If I made half that...

Maybe even a third of that, I'd be dancing in the street. Sorry, I know it's a tough time for everyone, but it's hard to get worked up for someone who is in a position many of us aspire to.

[superconnected]

115. Don't pay another dime. You need it to live on after you leave there anyway.

Good credit is only good for one thing - more credit.

You are fortunate that at least your wife works still.

You will make it. Head up. You are correct, you are not a big player. You really were set up to fail many times - the homeloan in the first place, the re-mortgage, the help for home onwners program that took your money, and the bank still trying to take your money when they made up the numbers of your income and most likely knew when you walked in the door what they were really going to do.

I'm sorry this cost you your dream house. But, let it go. Don't blame yourself, chin up. Declare bankruptcy if you can and try to get it on only one of you for all of your debt - that may take some fixing of getting credit and other items in to only one of your names. And then use the others good name after the bankruptcy to try to recover. You can own a house again and on better terms.

Best wishes to you. Geniuses have gotten screwed in this economy and this housing market. So don't even think of beating yourself up. You need yourself to prop yourself up. Take what good you can from it. A learning experience. Move on. I'll bet your future does end up bright.

[Fire1]

125. I say, CALL FANNIE MAE and ask how they calculated your

income, since they're the ones ultimately making the decision. BOA may be at fault!

[uponit7771]

134. *****JUST STAY IN THE HOUSE AND DON'T PAY ANYTHING BUT TAXES****

Also, WTF does this have to do with Obama?!

[Fire1]

138. Well, this IS his program. Is it not? n/t

[earth mom]

145. This has EVERYTHING to do with Obama. He has done everything to help the banksters

and very little to help the MAJORITY of the people.


If Obama had put all those trillions he gave to the banksters into Green Technology and Green Jobs, I'd bet the economy would be almost back on track by now!

[notadmblnd]

147. why pay taxes? They go along with the mortgage. If the bank wants the house,

they will pay the taxes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

236. If the taxes are unpaid, the county will force the bank's hand. n/t

[notadmblnd]

272. but still, there's at least a year there too.

My foreclosure prevention counselor told me that if I ware to walk away, that I should stop paying taxes and the water bill too.

[mstinamotorcity]

137. My best to you and your family

There is no need to look back.There are no words that can take away the gut wrenching punch that losing a house does to a family.But they took away your dream house,not your dreams.Dreams are what life's possibilities may be.You have shown strength and character in this process.That speaks volumes on your integrity,sir.Qualities that are hard to find in this day and age.You and your wife have weathered the storm together.That shows a love that some didn't have when they lost their homes.You have the tenacity to make it and it seems a loving partner to help you.You are truly lucky,some would say blessed.Any where you and your wife and family can live in happiness with each other will soon be home.And you say that you will be able to save some money.Thats another plus.Losing a house is fucked up no way around it.But having a home with the ones you love around you with a couple of dollars in your pocket.....Priceless!!!!At 52 you don't have to worry with love and character that was evident even through your rant lets us know you have the fighting spirit that will make it.The best to you and yours.

[GiveMeFreedom]

181. Thank you

for you post City. I admit that your post is truly comforting and maybe that's what I need, the voices of humanity to soothe my stressed out soul. As far as the detractors and un-sympathizers, I feel they have a right to what they say and I asked for it, so I am not angry or mad at what they say, just a reality check.

[mstinamotorcity]

250. First of all

no one has walked in your shoes.And they don't have to live your life, so f--k what they say. You do what is best for you and your family and live life to the fullest that you can under the circumstances that you have to deal with.I see more in people than they see in themselves.You have shown more courage than most don't ever forget that.And since I don't have any cold hard cash to offer the least I can do is show you all the positive things that I see.You are definitely a trooper!!!!!

[Political_Junkie]

142. I'm so sorry.

I lost mine two years ago, so I know what you are going through. You're right they don't care.

[Naturyl]

143. A lot of people would love to have your problems.

Sorry things aren't going well, but with an 86k income, you'll be fine.

[county worker]

146. I think you have to be in someone's shoes awhile before you make a call like that.

Your like B of A, making a judgment on a income number. There is a whole hell of other things in life that should be taken into consideration.

I really feel bad that the OP has to read your kind of post. I see these posts in every thread where someone is trying to get a little empathy from us. I don't like them as you can see.

[Naturyl]

158. In the OP's shoes?

With an 86k income? Sure, absolutely, where can I sign up? My household makes a tenth of that, and will never own a house to lose.

Like I said, a lot of people would love to have the OP's problems. My empathy is reserved for those who actually need it.

[county worker]

166. You don't have empathy to give.

People hurt no matter what their financial position is.

[Naturyl]

191. Yeah, and rich kids cry themselves to sleep

Because they can't have an Xbox 360 in every room. They really do hurt, and then pain is real.

And yet, it is not deserving of sympathy.

It is you who does not have empathy, because while you are shedding tears for someone will be fine, you are devaluing those who really need compassion.

[Pacifist Patriot]

148. I'm not so sure about that.

My family is comparable to his and I would develop a bleeding ulcer if I had to deal with a $3,100 mortgage.

No one should ever want someone else's problems. They know not for what they ask.

[Naturyl]

163. I wouldn't ever be dealing with that problem.

Why on Earth would anyone have a $3,100 mortgage to begin with? Can we say conspicuous over-consumption? My god. No one on Earth needs that much house. I'd gladly have this problem, so I could sell the McMansion, get a house with a $500 mortgage, and use the other $2,600 on something worthwhile and non-obscene.

[Pacifist Patriot]

171. You might actually be unable to sell McMansion...

The situation is not remotely as easy as you suggest. Very possibly the housing values have declined below the combined value of the two mortgages.

You do realize a McMansion in Alabama can easily be a 900 square foot 3 bedroom 1 bath house in California.

Honestly, your ignorance, simplistic views of home ownership and judgmentalism is disheartening.

[Naturyl]

182. Meh, wahetevr

You're an apologist for wealth. Meh, nothing new there. DU is drowning in them.

[Pacifist Patriot]

213. Bwaahaaa!!!!!!!!! An apologist for wealth?

Oh if you only knew. Thanks for the laugh though.

[Midlodemocrat]

249. Darling. Can I tell you something?

You are trying to talk sense into someone who is a total hater of anyone that has been able to make even $1 more than them over the course of the year. It's disgusting. It's not progressive. And it's not worthy of our time or our arguments.

People on this site never take location into account when discussing mortgages, which I find fascinating. And I also find the absolute height of ignorance. Do some research. Find out what the property taxes are. Find out what the homeowner's insurance is.

And then? And only then are you able to lecture someone on why they shouldn't commute 2 hours each way for their job which barely covers the bills.

Fucking disgusting. The ignorance here is fucking staggering.

Not you, sweetie. I wuvs you.

[Pacifist Patriot]

258. No harm in trying I suppose.

And I have to agree. The ignorance here is indeed staggering. No concept whatsoever of cost of living variances and market appraisal v. loan value certainly leads one to assume the conversation is being held with someone who has never been in a position to aquire property. And then to find out that property ownership is somehow elitist. Yikes!

[Naturyl]

278. Yeah, dippy.

Go ahead and use the conservative argument that people who criticize wealth are just jealous of anyone who has more than they do. Hannity would be proud.

It's not my fault that wealthy people are duped, brainwashed, and indoctrinated into pursuing money only to find that they can be deprived of their status symbols and merit badges at the whim of their capitalist slave-masters. It's not my fault anyone on Earth is duped/brainwashed/indoctrinated sufficiently to commute 4 hours a day just to be exploited by an employer, much less 2 minutes. It's not my fault anyone is duped/brainwashed/indoctrinated enough to get themselves on the hook for a $3,100 a month mortgage on a McMansion. None of that is my fault, because I've been advocating against all of it vehemently for years.

For all those reasons and more, your conventional consumerist-excusing definition of "progressive" is of less interest to me than the atomic formula that causes paint to dry.

[Pacifist Patriot]

300. You really can't quite seem to get your hooks out of the McMansion idea can you?

Grab a clue and realize that $3,100 in many areas of California and New York, as well as metropolitan areas like Boston, DC. Chicago, etc. is not going to get you anything near a McMansion.

The OP has not described his property other than indicating he lives in a very high cost of living area. I have a feeling the mental image you are toting around doesn't match up with reality.

I just did a comp on my property and got an eyeful. I looked it up in rural Alabama, small town Idaho, mid-size city Florida, southern California, Bergen County, NJ, Washington, DC and inside 495 in Massachusetts. Same type of property has a value range from $86,000 to over $600,000 depending upon where it's located.

If you can't grasp that, then you really shouldn't bother saying anything at all. You've done nothing but assume the worst and communicate utter self-righteousness. We get it. You have far superious decision-making abilities than the majority of your peers. Enjoy your smug self.

[Missy Vixen]

184. Did you read Skinner's civility comments?

It's the only thing that's preventing me from saying some things you richly deserve to hear. Right now.

:eyes:

As another poster has already said, your "compassion" isn't worth much, is it?

[Naturyl]

187. Compassion is for those who need it.

Such as the poor. 86k a year ain't poor.

The OP will be just fine.

[cap]

285. $86K in many areas of CA is lower middle class...

it would be a fortune in the hills of Alabama. If you work part-time in Walmart in CA you make more than part-time in Walmart in Alabama.

[Midlodemocrat]

287. Exactly.

$3000 a month for a mortgage in AL would indeed be for a McMansion. In parts of VA? It would barely cover the rent on a decent condo.

The ignorance here is staggering, absolutely staggering.

[Dappleganger]

156. Would you like to trade places with him?

No doubt he'd be very happy for someone else who thinks they can do it better and more easily. Seems like some people on this board have it all figured out.

[Naturyl]

160. Would I like to trade 8k yearly income for 86k?

Um... yes.

[Pacifist Patriot]

161. Are you willing to trade it for a debt load the income won't cover?

You are offering to take the liabilities along with the assets you know.

[rd_kent]

168. SHort sell or wak away....

no matter what, at the end of the day, they have an income of 86K a year. They will be fine.

[Pithlet]

219. Why would you want to trade places with someone makeing 86k?

When you don't think people like that are deserving of sympathy? That doesn't make sense.

[Naturyl]

279. Heh... case in point

How does it not make sense that someone whose situation is actually bad wouldn't want to trade places with someone whose situation isn't?

Can't you folks understand that sympathy and empathy are for people who actually have significant problems?

By far the #1 thing wrong with the Democratic Party today is that there are too many people who have money, and too many brainwashed sympathizers who don't have money, but who defend the wealthy class because that is what American culture has indoctrinated them to do. It is the single solitary biggest reason the Democratic party is striking out year after year and the right wing is taking over this country.

Repeat after me: the wealthy are our enemies. If you don't understand that, ask yourself why. Democrats 50 years ago did.

[Pacifist Patriot]

301. Are you suggesting that to be decent people we need to be poor?

[rd_kent]

167. I would trade in a heartbeat.

An income right now of 86K per year. We can swap today.

[Pacifist Patriot]

173. Again, it's not an income swap.

If you want someone else's problems you need to be willing to accept their liabilities along with their assets.

I'd be deliriously happy with $20,000 a year if I wasn't married, did not have three children and had a job I could do from home in a remote rural area with a lower than national average cost of living.

[rd_kent]

185. I wouls swap in a heartbeat.

Mortgage payment of 3100 a month and income of 86K a year leaves me with 47K before taxes. I can make that work. I would sell or walk from the house. sell or walk from the cars and other unnecessary debt and make it work. At the end of the day, I have 86K income. I can make it work. I would swap right now.

[cap]

289. his $86K is highly dependent on his wife going to work in a particular school district

not all school districts pay $50K. So you don't know what the car situation is like for that area. Also, they are hoping that the Governator doesn't strip education and layoff teachers.

In CA, you will start to get into highly undesirable places once the mortgage goes below a certain level.

[Naturyl]

186. Sell all the consumerist McRubbish, pay down the debts, and live modestly

Modest living on 86k would free up about 60k for charity and social work.

[lumberjack_jeff]

238. $86k is double our gross family income.

and to be honest, I've never met a contractor who refused cash work.

[Naturyl]

280. $86k is 10 times our gross family income

And yet, most of these people have the nerve to admonish me and say "tsk tsk tsk" for offering the view that the OP will be fine.

Where's my compassion? It's reserved for the kids in Africa, India, and Haiti who make a tenth of what I do and are dying by thousands every day, covered in flies and their own filth.

As much as I would like it to be otherwise, empathy is limited resource, because human energy is limited. There are real problems in this world that need our attention, rather than world's smallest fiddle stories about rich people losing their McMansions.

Last month, on the 10th (with 21 days to go in the month), I had exactly $1.00 left on my SSI debit card. I made a special trip to the store to donate that last dollar to Haiti. While a single dollar really isn't shit in the big picture, I bet it's more than the McMansion owners gave, proportionally. And even if it it isn't, it doesn't change the fact that people are whining about having wasted thousands every month on the BS status-symbol "American Dream" and losing it, when they could have been saving a hundred lives a month the time. Forgive me if I feel compelled, as a true progressive and a person of conscience, to say "boo-hoo."

Just once, I want to hear someone moaning that they can no longer pay their starving child sponsorship accounts. Have never seen it a single time in America and I doubt I ever will.

[lumberjack_jeff]

291. Well said. n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

302. It's not necessarily your message, but the way you delivered it.

You didn't say, "You'll be fine." You went beyond that and came across as incredibly churlish and condescending.

You indicate severe disapproval of a life style others aspire to and some have achieved. If phrases like, "as a true progressive" aren't self-righteous and dismissive of others here, I don't know what is.

You present yourself as being better than everyone else. I can't imagine why anyone would want to tsk tsk you for that.

[Midlodemocrat]

311. Well said.

[TwixVoy]

307. It's scary as hell isn't it?

That someone making near 6 figures gets a massive thread like this.... while threads about children dead in Haiti drop like a rock.

There are LOTS of people on DU who think the recession is over.... they don't realize it has only begun.... and they are going to be in for MAJOR shocks just like the OP was..... hopefully they will learn what is really important in life.

[cap]

315. delete

[Jim__]

144. In all seriousness, your biggest problem right now may be stress.

A rant on DU doesn't mean anything. But if you're as stressed in your personal life as you sound in that rant; you may want to see a doctor about the stress.

It sounds like you still have a family income and can afford to pay rent. You're still with your wife. I wouldn't try to minimize the effects of losing your house; but it sounds like you still have a lot going for you. Stress can cost you the rest of what you have; don't let it.

[DevonRex]

152. You have every right to rant and you should rant.

I know it's not worth much but it's all I can do. So :hug:

[proud patriot]

153. I'm so sorry

:(

[omega minimo]

155. They also didn't give a fuck when you took out that "too easy" second

Did you think you might be gambling? They were gambling on you?

[xynthee]

157. Stay put and consult foreclosure experts!

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. The stress must be terrible. Here are a couple of articles for homeowners in trouble:

This article says to stay put and hoard your money in the meantime!!

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/advice-to-homeowners-in-trouble-stay-in-the-house--352665.html

snip:

Too often, they say, residents get the first notice of an impending foreclosure, panic and move out of the house because they’re afraid the sheriff is going to throw their belongings out on the street. In reality, it can take months and years for that to happen.

“That’s the reason why we are telling people up front, you don’t leave until you’re told to leave,” said Montgomery County Recorder Willis Blackshear. “But the homeowner often assumes that if the property goes on sale Friday, Oct. 2, that ‘I’ve got to leave Saturday, Oct. 3’ — and that’s not the process.”

Even if a home is sold at sheriff’s auction, which can take many months, it may still be another three to six months before the sale is confirmed, Blackshear said. Then, the sheriff has to send the resident a 30-day eviction notice before they can take action.

If the bank walks away, of course, it could be years before anything happens.

---

The last thing the mortgage holder wants is for the collateral on their loan to be vacant and vandalized, said Dayton Housing Inspector John Carter.

-------

This article says to hire an experienced attorney (expensive, but probably worth it) and to treat a foreclosure just like a lawsuit.

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20091015_defend.htm

snip:

The most critical first step for individuals faced with mortgage foreclosure is to find and secure the services of an experienced attorney, familiar with these issues. A foreclosure filing should be viewed like a lawsuit, and you'll need someone who can successfully litigate your case. A thorough understanding of your mortgage rights, which include, but are not limited to, loan modifications, is of the highest importance.

Be wary of non-attorneys offering assistance as they have no leverage in dealing with lenders. In the end, they cannot do anything to help their clients if a foreclosure case goes to court. Lenders have become keenly aware of this deficiency, and they will exploit your team's weakness.

There are a number of benefits linked to working with a reputable foreclosure attorney who can who can lead a dynamic defense. Your attorney will work to delay or stop foreclosure, and you will be able to set aside funds that can be used when seeking reinstatement. Furthermore, people who put up a strong defense have an extra leverage and are well positioned for future reinstatement. Working with a defense attorney, borrowers affected by foreclosures can use the legal process to achieve fair loan modification – a solution that allows people to keep their homes. This route reworks the terms of an existing mortgage, thereby lowering monthly payments and making the loan more affordable.

This can play out in various ways, including; the principal balance of the loan can be reduced; the interest rate lowered, and some or all of the past-due payments can even be eliminated. Essentially, homeowners get a new start on their credit report and improve their credit scores over a matter of months. Each situation is a different, and you must work with your trusted advisers to decide the best course of action for you and your family.

------

Foreclosure Avoidance Counselors (free, funded by the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan). Might want to try this before you consult an attorney.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/hcc/fc/

HUD-approved housing counseling agencies are available to provide you with the information and assistance you need to avoid foreclosure. As part of President Obama's comprehensive Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan (HASP), you may be eligible for a special Making Home Affordable loan modification or refinance, to reduce your monthly payments and help you keep your home.

If you need help understanding the Making Home Affordable programs, you can use this search tool to find a counseling agency in your area that will provide you with free foreclosure prevention services. If you are eligible for the loan modification or refinance program, the counselor will work with you to compile an intake package for your servicer.

Foreclosure prevention counseling services are provided free of charge by nonprofit housing counseling agencies working in partnership with the Federal Government. These agencies are funded, in part, by HUD and NeighborWorks® America. There is no need to pay a private company for these services.

Please select a state from the list below and click the “Go to this page” link, or select a state from the map below. This will take you to a page with additional search criteria to help you find a conveniently located housing counseling agency.

------

And beware of scams!!

http://makinghomeaffordable.gov/beware.html

The Federal government provides free resources to get you the help you need. Homeowners can call the Homeowner’s HOPE™ Hotline at 1-888-995-HOPE (4673) for information about the Making Home Affordable Program and to speak with a HUD-approved housing counselor. Assistance is available in English and Spanish, and other languages by appointment.

Tips to Avoid Scams

1. Beware of anyone who asks you to pay a fee in exchange for a counseling service or modification of a delinquent loan.

2. Scam artists often target homeowners who are struggling to meet their mortgage commitment or anxious to sell their homes. Recognize and avoid common scams.

3. Beware of people who pressure you to sign papers immediately, or who try to convince you that they can “save” your home if you sign or transfer over the deed to your house.

4. Do not sign over the deed to your property to any organization or individual unless you are working directly with your mortgage company to forgive your debt.

5. Never make a mortgage payment to anyone other than your mortgage company without their approval.

------

Don't give up until you've spoken to some experts. Bank of Assholes is counting on you to become so demoralized and stressed that you just give up. Don't give those fuckers the satisfaction. Oh, how I loathe them!!!!!!!!!

[juno jones]

170. I am sorry to hear this.

I lost my house a couple of years ago at the start of all of this.

It's sad to see how many people blame the victims of the predation of banks and lenders. But then, I suppose they need something to boster their fragile egos against the knowledge that this is in fact aimed at us all. What remains is most of us were good little boys and girls who played the game as we were supposed to not realizing that there is some pretty bent rules buried down in the playbook to be used against us when the time is right.

Research every legal avenue you can, stall them, ask for the note to be produced, stay as long as you can, even a talk with lawyer might give you some insight. It sounds like you have some pretty good documentation, they might back down before a legal challenge, if you were to go that route.


Good luck. :hug: I know it is no consolation, but you are not alone out there.

[LaPera]

174. Not too late for me to MOVE my money from B of A - Wells Fargo, to my local community

bank or credit union instead, to help people out and help create jobs in my community...every tiny bit helps...

FUCK the huge multinational banks taking our tax dollars and then fucking us again....They certainly don't want to see (like the republicans) the democrats get re-elected either....

If I must get fucked over, I'd much rather have it done locally and have my son or friend keep their jobs locally by keeping a small local banks alive...cuz the same huge collusive, monster banks (Chase, Citi, Goldman) want to eat the local banks for breakfast using our tax dollars and then receive bonuses for doing it!

[Pacifist Patriot]

176. *sigh*

I tried to do that and my local community credit union turned my offer down. So I'm stuck with the big guys until I get the debt paid off. August 2013!

[arthritisR_US]

177. I am so sorry you're going through this. Some of what you said struck me

that you're being a little harsh on yourself. You are not alone as there are many who took the same steps you did and now find themselves in the same position. They sold us hype and every time I turned around there was another ad about refinancing our homes and that this was the way to go. We trusted what they said - they would never lead us astray right? How wrong were we. So now those bastards have all the money you have paid to date and soon the property. Yep, the only way to rob a bank is to own one. I'm really sorry for your pain mate and please be gentle with yourself.

[winyanstaz]

179. I hear you......you are in good company now....

A lot of hard working tax paying rule following Americans are in the same boat now.
And still Congress plays politics while people's lives are ruined.
They are breaking us...
So we will cry and whine and BEG for their New World Order.
I am sorry you and your family are going through this.

[Edweird]

189. You're in good comapny, if that's any consolation.

Hire an attorney. It cost me $500.00 to jam BofA up for a couple years. Fuck them. They are scumbags.

[CrispyQ]

194. "The house is so upside down in debt that I can see China outside my window."

Kudos to maintaining a little bit of humor in all this! :hug:

We lost a house back in the S&L crisis in the late 80s. The S&L who had the note was not interested in working with us in the least! The house was valued at $160k & in a matter of a few months we couldn't get an offer to cover the $110k we owed. One offer we would have had to bring $30k to the table. If we'd had $30-fucking-k, we would have paid the damned bank! Another offer had a clause that all of our personal possessions were included in the sale. The realtor tried to talk us into taking the offer, assuring us that the buyer would probably not really want our possessions. :crazy:

In the end, we stopped making house payments, we declared bankruptcy (this was long before the new bankruptcy laws) & we bought ourselves eight months before the sheriff came to kick us out. We managed to save enough to buy another house. The same crappy market that hurt us trying to sell the one house, helped us when buying our other house, although it is a significantly smaller house in a location not nearly as nice. Still, we have a house & because of our past experience, instead of ramping up & buying a bigger property, like many of my friends & family have done, we paid our itty-bitty house off. It was the best decision we ever made!

I have so much sympathy for people going through this! Good luck to you & your wife! I truly hope things turn out ok for you.

[mnhtnbb]

197. First, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Second, here's the link

http://www.dfi.ca.gov/

to the CA State department which regulates banks in the State. If you haven't tried them as a resource
to help you with dealing with BoA, I'd at least make a contact.

And here is their link to file a complaint http://www.dfi.ca.gov/consumers/consumer_complaint.asp

In 2007 our house burned down in NC. Our mortgage had been sold (to CitiMortgage)and I went through
endless attempts to deal with them in the aftermath, compounded by the problem that our insurance company
was trying to buy us off for 2/3 of what the house was insured for, which wouldn't pay off the mortgage.
Citi even ignored contacts from our real estate attorney. HOWEVER, I got their attention when I filed
a complaint with the NC Commissioner of Banks and they wrote a letter to Citi (copied me)and all of a sudden
I had a phone call from someone at Citi saying, "oh, we don't know what went wrong, but yes, we are going
to help you with this". I finally got what I wanted (a reduced mortgage payment after we sent them the first insurance check)SIX MONTHS after the fire. For four of those months Citi had cashed the insurance
check and was expecting us to make full payments on a burned down house!

Good luck. You've had some good advice on this thread, but nothing makes up for the heartache of
losing your home.

:hug:

[GiveMeFreedom]

228. Thank you for the information

Seems though, that dealing with a national bank such as Bank of Assholes is not DFI's area of concern. They deal with State matters only. And just when I had the form all filled out to with scathing evidence.

[BlueCollar]

201. add my K&R and my intense hatred for BofA

Fucking buzzards...

Of all the financial institutions that can rot in hell...Bank of America is at the top of my list.

[YOY]

209. BoA and Citi...never getting my money.

n.t.

[Raksha]

210. They don't care what it says on your W-2 forms????

Just what the fuck do they mean by that? Aren't there ANY laws that apply to these bastards AT ALL??? Or more to the point, isn't there anyone left willing to enforce whatever laws are still on the books? How can they say you don't qualify for the program when you do?

[midnight]

211. You have every right to rant... This system of subsidizing the casino game that the banks play

needs to stop... The cutoff point should be used as an estimated no. and not an absolute fix. This excuse coming from the guys who demanded a bail out with no strings attached is why there needs to be a purge..

[DesertFlower]

214. may i ask how much your downpayment was?

also how much did you take on the second?

if your down payment was low and you got a nice chunk on the second, you might walk away from it ahead.

[GinaMaria]

216. So sorry this is happening to you

Is there a legal route you could take? Pro bono lawyers or a foundation with sliding scale? I don't understand why forclosure is more desirable to the bank than getting some money every month? This is so messed up. It has happened to so many people already and it continues to happen. This could be any one of us writing this post. Keep us posted on how you are doing. Thinking of you today.

[GreenPartyVoter]

217. Oh no! I am so sorry! :^(

[JohnnyHardhat]

218. Sorry to hear

This may sound like a ludicrous idea given your present situation but I recommend you contact your Senator and Congressman immediately to have their staff make inquiries directly to B of A on your behalf. I also recommend you contact your state representative and senator to find out if your state has any pull with the bank through their departments and agencies. As I have worked in government and have dealt with these situations I have found that sometimes a well placed call is all that is required to grease the skids, especially for a bank like B of A which can't handle more bad publicity. This may or may not help but at least you will see if your elected officials are responsive and your story will help them understand what's really going on out here. Good luck.

[GiveMeFreedom]

225. all ready on that this morning, Both CA Senators

But Dan Lundgren is my house of representative critter. Don't think the repub will be any help at all, especially when I tell him I have never voted for him, he he.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

222. This IS a very disturbing thread.

There is a lot of ignorance and jealousy on this thread. It seems there are those who don't understand life throws you some curve balls sometimes and there's the others who think we should all be dirt poor like they are.

[lutherj]

223. Sorry for your troubles. I'm only a few steps behind you. One day it'll

all come back to haunt them, when their whole fucking system comes down.

[graywarrior]

224. Holy FUCK!

Grrrrrrrr.

[GiveMeFreedom]

227. graywarrior,

thanks for bringing the duck, I feel honored and humble in the ducks presence(need the humor about now.) Your personnel guttural expression is my exact frustration.

[graywarrior]

246. Glad we could help....qwak.

[TexasObserver]

226. I read your story shortly after you posted it, but don't have the words.

The big banks and AIG got theirs. The Wall street execs got their bonuses.

I'm very sorry for you.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GiveMeFreedom]

234. More like

Corporate economics. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan are small time players. The corporations and the Wall Streeters are the ones to blame. Pay raise stagnation, off shoring money, shipping jobs over seas, etc. These are the entities to blame (or persons?) That AIG is awarding their biggest bonuses ever to their management is disturbing at best and tells who really controls the economy. So don't blame any one pres. to much, they seem to fall in line with the corporate agenda after taking office.

[Gman]

232. Just damn

[sandyj999]

239. I am so sorry.

We are fortunate that we are old enough that our house is paid for but since September we too have hit a bump in the road. My husband lost his job and with unemployment we are making at least 50% less per week than we were. It isn't easy and the prospects are slim. A long, long time ago my ex husband and I lost a house and I know that it is a horrible thing. I am sorry that this has happened to you and I share your anger.

[Riley18]

242. Go to LoanSafe.org for advice on timelines and other information.

Do you live in a recourse or a non-recourse state?

I am a teacher in the same situation, and I am sorry that skank of America refuses to work with their homeowners. I have been trying for over a year, and have not even gotten a fake trial payment plan yet. They are not finalizing any mortgages. I think it was something like 98 mortgages modified in 2009 at that bank. They are not even trying to pretend to follow the HAMP guidelines. If we tried to pull that sort of shit, there would be hell to pay. Funny how the banks have made our government helpless to enforce the allocation of the TARP money. It almost makes me think they have been paying off our elected officials. I suppose that would never happen though.

You are right that it will take a revolution, but I do not hold out much hope for change.

[Jefferson23]

245. My heart goes out to ya. There seems to be some interesting advice in this thread,

perhaps some of it will be of help to you. Best of luck!

[varelse]

247. I wish I could help you

this kind of shit makes me crazy.

:(

[dark forest]

252. That's a tough break, man

I've always found I made just aq little too much money to qualify for government help when I could have really used it, too. So i know how you feel.

[TheDebbieDee]

253. See Post # 110. PLEASE make those phuckers foreclose. Go to the forecloure

hearing and ask the judge to make B of A PROVE that they own or are in possession of the note.

In 33% of foreclosures, the purported holder of the note cannot produce the necessary documents. It might be worth a try. Good luck to you and your family. I'm sorry for your misfortune and I wish you the best........

[dothemath]

259. taking the blame for being stupid ............

You won't see me on any line you are in - front line, back line or any other line.
The only saving grace you presented is you were, ummmmm, probably at fault for the fact
you are going to have to move out of someone else's house (BofA).

I am no fan of BofA either. I remember when I graduated from college and went to SC to
work in my first job. There were C&S banks everywhere in the deep South. C&S banks were
the genesis of today's BofA.

You haven't made a case for anything or anyone. You cherry pick a few numbers, don't get
what you want (can you spell bailout?) and tell everyone to go fuck themselves.

Great defense. You should be a repukelican.

[Better Believe It]

265. With that attitude you'll turn many people who are getting screwed into Republicans or worse!

[GiveMeFreedom]

275. Thought you should know.

Bank of America's history dates to 1904, when Amadeo Giannini founded the Bank of Italy in San Francisco, for the purpose of catering to immigrants other banks would not serve.<21><22> Amadeo was raised by the Fava/Stanghellini family when his father was shot while trying to collect on a $10.00 debt. When the 1906 San Francisco earthquake struck, Giannini was able to get all of the deposits out of the bank building and away from the fires. Because San Francisco's banks were in smoldering ruins and unable to open their vaults, Giannini was able to use the rescued funds to start lending within a few days of the disaster. From a makeshift desk of a few planks over two barrels, he lent money to anyone who was willing to rebuild. He took great pride in later years that all of these loans were repaid.

In 1922, Giannini established Bank of America and Italy<23> in Italy by buying Banca dell'Italia Meridionale<24>, itself only established in 1918.<25><26>

March 7, 1927, Mr. Giannini consolidated his Bank of Italy (101 branches) with the then newly formed Liberty Bank of America (175 branches). The result was the Bank of Italy National Trust & Savings Association with capital of $30,000,000, resources of $115,000,000.

In 1928, A. P. Giannini merged with Bank of America Los Angeles and consolidated it with his other bank holdings to create what would become the largest banking institution in the country. He renamed his Bank of Italy November 3, 1930, calling it Bank of America. The merger was completed in early 1929<27> and took the name Bank of America. The combined company was headed by Giannini with Monnette serving as co-Chair.

[grumpy in StL]

260. Be very careful here...

I have heard some rela horror stories about the ramp up in deficiency judgements--they are going after them now.
You need to talk to a laywer and probably an accountant.
State laws vary, but you need to know of the purchase money first is recourse or not.
If you re-financed anything, it is all likely recourse loans--meaning they can sue you for the deficiency of payment when they sell it--plus of course a but load of extra fees.
It may we be the case that the best action for you is to squat and save cash money and file for BK to extinguish this debt.
They are also selling this debyt off to low life collectors who will make your life difficult.
Walking away will not make the debt go away.
Seek legal advice here--very important.
I know people who have been where you are, I certainly will not judge you, but I am very glad and humbly thankful I never got sucked into the dream home concept--It would sure have felt nice to do something like that for my wife, but I am too allergic to debt to take on that kind of risk.
I am your age, and I fully understand how difficult it will be for you to rebuild a normal life at this stage of the game.
Folks--large debt of any kind is a bet that your income will be steady and either even or increasing. When I think about that I realize that that is a bet very few in this culture (me included) would be wise to take. I like my fun, but I no longer feel safe taking on any debt for any reason.
These debt pimps have destroyed this country for a generation--at least.

[Better Believe It]

262. The anger grows and builds among many millions. As it should.

And just as before in American history it will explode.

As it should.

K & R

[applegrove]

266. I'm really sorry.

[DollyM]

267. my heart broke as I read your letter . . .

All I can do is say I'm sorry . . . it is hard giving up your dreams. We had to downsize when we moved 10 years ago to a double wide trailor but I am glad we did. Our housepayment is $300.00 a month so we will survive. The downside to that is, we only earned $3000.00 in income last year! There are just very few jobs here and with our age, it is even harder to find something. My 80 year old mother helps us out quite a bit, if it were not for her, we would be homeless. Still, that is not something that we can do forever or even want to do, it hurts me deeply to accept help from a parent that I expected to be helping instead at this point in my life.
I know you are hurt and angry, I was when we had to give up our dream house, a 2 story colonial we had just remodled. But you do what you have to do and really, in the end, it is all just stuff. When you can see past this, you will hug your family a little tighter and realize that the people who love you and that you love make you a very wealthy person. I know it hurts now, but you will get through it. They can take your house but they can't take away the people that love you.

[roguevalley]

269. givememyfreedom, I am sick for you and your family. I am ONE FUCKING YEAR

into my FHA refinance. I am hoping next month to close it. If they let me. I wish I could hug you. God bless you,honey. DEMAND THE NOTE! Tell them to show the original note. If they can't, they can't toss you. Hugs, honey. :(

[IndyJones]

274. I'm so sorry. I hate BofA - won't ever step foot into one of their branches.

Greedy SOBs. Have you called your Senator's office to ask if they can intervene? Have you posted your story on their Yahoo! Finance message board? Called your local TV station to see if they want to do a personal interest story to push BofA to talk to you?

I can't stand that bank. I'm really sorry they are not following the Obama Plan they way they are supposed to.

[LibDemAlways]

276. I was in Wachovia Bank today and a man was arguing with a teller. The

conversation went something like this:

Customer: I am handing you a cashier's check that will put me within 30 days of being current on my home loan, and you're telling me the bank won't take it?

Teller: Sir, the decision has already been made to foreclose.

Customer: But I'm trying to get caught up. I haven't received any kind of written notice at all. I'm out of work. I'm doing my best. Can't you people work with me?

Teller: I cannot take the check.

Customer: Then you are forcing me into foreclosure.

Teller: That's correct, sir.

It was one of the most bone-chilling things I've ever witnessed. A man who was obviously in a very bad place financially was doing what he could to hang onto his house, and the bank, which by the way went under and was bought by Wells Fargo, had no issue at all with throwing the man and his family out onto the street. The teller wasn't even trying to fake compassion. A colder, less interested person would be hard to find.

I am sincerely sorry about what is happening to you. Just last week my 59-year-old husband got unceremoniously shown the door after 20 loyal years of service to his company. I have a 16-year-old who has worked mightily hard to do well in school so that she can attend a good college. What am I supposed to tell her? Sorry, honey, the CEO of daddy's company needed his $15 mil. per year (actual salary), so daddy had to sacrifice his job and your future. Filthy, rotten bastards all of them.

[Violet_Crumble]

277. I'm so sorry for what yr going through...

Y'know, I read some posts from a few DUers who don't seem to be able to feel any empathy, but I figure if me on the other side of the world where people being put out of their homes just doesn't happen like it is in the US can feel heaps of empathy for the situation yr in, there's something wrong with Americans who can't feel for you...

[ncteechur]

284. I'm sorry but with your unemployment and your wife's salary, you still make more than

me and my wife put together. Exactly how big was your house? There are people much worse off than you. Get a grip.

[Better Believe It]

286. And I'm sure there are millions worse off than you. So don't you ever whine.

See how they divide us?

[LanternWaste]

296. And there are people much better off too

"There are people much worse off than you..."

And there are people much better off too. Is there some absolute point at which we may validly vent our concerns without the "get a grip" comments? If so, what is that point, and on what is it based?

Or is it something we merely save for those with more income than our own families, despite what they may be going through...?

[Pacifist Patriot]

288. I hope the geniuses so eager to change places with you read this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7638092

They desperately need some education along with a good dose of human kindness.

[leftstreet]

299. +1

There's also a link to an excellent article in that thread:

Underwater and Not Walking Away: Shame, Fear and the Social Management of the
Housing Crisis

http://housingstorm.com/2009/12/not-walking-away-shame-fear-and-the-social-management-of-the-housing-crisis/

[branders seine]

290. No one in DC or on Wall Street is on your side.

You are the grease they need for their wheels to turn, nothing more.

[cbdo2007]

297. I know just how you feel. Times were so tough for me and my family I had to trade in my mercedes

for a Lexus. And I'm only down to $10 Million in the stock market. Geez, times are really tough but us rich folks should watch each others backs.

[Pacifist Patriot]

303. Not only utterly unnecessary as a response, but downright hostile.

Honestly, I cannot get over the ignorance and churlishness on this thread.

[mnhtnbb]

308. I think he forgot the sarcasm thingie.

[Pacifist Patriot]

310. I picked up on the sarcasm. That's what I thought was mean.

[Nikki Stone1]

298. They want you out so they can resell it later. In a world where the dollar is devalued

property becomes more and more important.

[Jamastiene]

313. The American Dream is almost unachievable unless you

are incredibly lucky. That just sucks. I hated losing my home. I feel for you. :hug: