HOAs strike again! Neighborhood Nazis ban environmentally friendly homes.

[meldroc]

The Property Cops: Homeowner Associations Ban Eco-Friendly Practices

Homeowner association regulations often make environmental responsibility impossible by outlawing clotheslines, solar panels -- even gardens.

The house Heather and Joseph Sarachek were building in Scarsdale, N.Y., was to be a model of green efficiency, complete with geothermal heating and cooling. Even the electricity to run the system would be clean, coming from solar panels on their roof -- but when the time came to install the panels last fall, construction came to an abrupt halt.

A local Board of Architectural Review refused to issue the Saracheks a permit for the solar apparatus, having received a letter from at least 15 neighbors -- among them doctors, lawyers and other presumably well-educated people -- arguing that the panels "would clearly be an eyesore in our lovely Quaker Ridge neighborhood."

This March -- four months, $20,000 in extra construction and legal costs, and 107 petition signatures later, and after agreeing to plant a screen of trees to hide their "eyesore" -- the Saracheks finally got the board's decision reversed. On a 4-3 vote, the victory was a squeaker. But it meant that the prosperous Village of Scarsdale, where the average house is valued at $834,000, would see its first solar panels ever.

Am I the only person that really detests Homeowner Associations? They're the guys who smack you with fines for breaking stupid rules against things like having more than so many roses in your rose bushes or painting your house a shade different from the Approved Colors(TM). There's always that guy - the pencilnecked nosy neighbor who enforces that shit - walking down the street with a camera and a notebook seeing who he can slap with fines and threaten with liens this week. In some cases, they go up and down your property with a tape measure, so they can fine you for having a fence that's 38 inches tall in one corner instead of the regulation 36 inches. And of course, if you decide to participate, go to HOA meetings, get on the board, try to make things reasonable, you could swear that the place is run by Karl Rove, using every dirty trick, from rescheduling meetings to harassing you with lots of petty violations to beat you down.

Just makes me want to go postal when I hear about this shit.

Of course, they're absolutely hostile to anything resembling eco-friendly houses. No solar panels, no xeriscaped lawns, no clotheslines! Conform, citizen!

[yardwork]

1. Not all HOAs are like this.

HOAs are all different, depending on their particular group's bylaws.

Yes, I find this particular neighborhood to be disgusting and selfish. I can't imagine why people who want an environmentally friendly house would want to live in such a narrow-minded neighborhood.

[supernova]

6. Was thinking the same

what are these ecofriendlies doing in Scarsdale, of all places? :shrug:

[Clark2008]

7. Probably work.

It's probably either near work or family and they liked the area.

By the time they realized what turds their future neighbors were, they'd already sunk a small fortune into their house - they couldn't back out then.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. What exactly allows a homeowner's assoc. any power whatsoever?

I don't see how a homeowner's association's opinions carry any legal weight. When you own your property or mortgage, what gives them the right to enforce aesthetic standards?

[meldroc]

11. How they get their power.

When a developer builds a new subdivision, he gets to name the terms under which the homes are sold. So when you buy a house from a developer, it will have a clause in the contract requiring you to join the HOA, pay the dues, abide by the rules, pay the fines and suffer the penalties when you break the rules, and when you sell the house, you have to require the next buyer to be a part of the HOA as well.

Usually, the developer when he founds the HOA for the subdivision has a few of their chosen cronies sit on the HOA board for the first few years, since the community's still new and hasn't had a chance to develop its own rules yet. And they'll rig the rules so they stay in power, no matter what, so chances are good that with the newer developers, the pencilnecks in charge of the HOA don't even live in your neighborhood.

[DURHAM D]

14. The governing documents. When you buy a home in a

neighbor or community with a Homeowners association you are subject to the existing rules. The people in Scarsdale should not have purchased a home in that community.

The community covenants carry legal weight. The communities are approved by the local government.

[Recursion]

38. It's a question of how tough you're willing to be

In the end there's very little an HOA can actually do to you, if you're willing to put up with having a reputation as an asshole (which is a problem in itself). You can just refuse their demands and contest all debts about the fines; two of my friends have both ended up being dragged into court and winning over not paying HOA dues.

[jilln]

3. I hate them too, but...

Don't the plans have to be accepted by the HOAs? So it should have been redesigned to hide the panels in the first place.

The architect who makes available plans for standardized energy efficiant mini castles could make a fortune...

Don't know why they object to clotheslines, though, unless they are a neighborhood of peeping toms.

[DURHAM D]

16. With regard to clothes lines ...

If you are in a community where you own a lot and you maintain your own lot (mow the grass, etc.) clotheslines are not usually highly regulated.

In some communities the individual either does not own any part of the lawn or does not maintain the yard - the Association does. If someone puts a clotheslines on the common property, does not maintain a proper height and a child runs through it and is injured the Association has the liability and responsibility. In other words, if it is a 130 unit community all 130 unit owners have to pay up for damages, injury, wrongful death, etc. Also, the Board of Directors can be sued individually for not enforcing the governing documents.

[conscious evolution]

32. Liability my ass.Clotheslines are for POOR people

Can't have the nieghborhood looking like a bunch of poor people living there,you know.Next thing you know all those colored people will be stealin our TV's and sexing up our daughters.Can't be having that happen.No siree bob.

[DURHAM D]

34. Gosh - what a reasoned response. n/t

[conscious evolution]

35. not meant to be snarky

Probably shoulda used a sarcasm smilie-thingy.
But I have seen and heard that attitude expressed.
HOA's,like Plantations,or Clubs or whatever name they give it have often been used to segregate people from one another.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

36. Clothesline solution

I don't live in a neighborhood with an HOA, but, I don't find clotheslines terribly attractive either. My yard isn't really large and I have a beautiful garden and kids who like to run about. Having had a German mother, you learn that the ONLY way to dry linens is on a clothesline, it's sacrilege to put them into the dryer! LOL So, what to do? I have a 5 line retractable clothesline that's 30 feet long. Plenty of space for at least 4 loads of laundry! And when your done, you just retract it and voila! No line visible!

[rkc3]

4. On the hand, you should know better by now.

Don't move into these neighborhoods.

[Clark2008]

5. I would NEVER live where there's a HOA.

EVER.

They're evil, nitpicking, nosy butinskies.

[DURHAM D]

20. I have been involved with managing

HOAs for over 20 years. Just so you know - given your feelings about HOAs the Board of Directors of any association would be most happy if you never purchase a home in a community with an HOA.

People who come in angry stay angry - even without a reason.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

40. That's a bunch of BS and you should know it! I was the youngest

board member at 29yrs. old almost 20yrs ago (within the first 2 yrs of living here, and I was the youngest by more than 1/2 the age of the other members).

Board members are not compensated for their time and effort, and bear a lot of abuse, I know. However, too many people on the Board are ego maniacs, they actually think that being President of the Board is something BIG TIME! We had a little HITLER here, who thought he could break laws whenever they suited him.

After my resignation, I was asked on many occasions to reconsider becoming a board member again. "Why on earth, would a qualified person, actually accept to assume abuse from inadequate management resources, fellow board members and the few complainers in the community, while the silent majority of decent people remained quiet?", that's what I asked myself, and refused.

The problem is, there are too many people with too much time on their hands (to write and call and make mountains out of molehills on trivial issues, while the more important and grave issues are differed due to time constraints), so the Board members become ineffective.

As for the management companies, of which, I assume you work, what a bunch of incompetents. My experience is that the management companies are employed because of their association with multiple HOA's, which leads to greater pricing discounts from external vendors due to the numbers they represent for common community needs, for ex., snow removal, landscaping, etc.

The management company employees are generally low skilled, inexperienced and devoid of any innovative thinking, yet weld a great control over the home owners LIFE.

I had a water leak that went SIX YEARS unresolved, that's six years, I had a hole in my Florida room floor, that I HAD NO AUTHORITY to repair, because, it was the HOA's responsibility to repair! I even offered to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, and was denied.

I just recently, wanted to replace my windows and sliding doors, so I call the mgmt. co., and they said go to LOWE's they know all the requirements. I made several trips to LOWE'S, and the Window/door mgr. was working with me to actually come up with a discount program for the owners here (his initiative, not mine). I called the mgmt. company to ensure that the sliders were acceptable (the screen door was internal not external) and they that I now has to use another vendor. We have brown frickin windows, that's why it was difficult to just replace them, so after hours, of determining the correct windows/sliders, I now have to start over with a new vendor!

Yep, some kid, just decides that another vendor would do the work here, and I have to jump through hoops to get my windows/sliders replaced. Thank God, that I didn't employ LOWE'S, or I would be stuck with the cost of the windows, their installment, and then the cost of the new vendor windows and their installment.

I apologize to anyone in these positions that are other than I describe, however, they tend to be exceptions and not the rule!

I advocate to anyone who is even considering buying a HOA eligible property, to NEVER do so!

[chaska]

8. Them rich folk are gonna be pretty tasty ... one of these days.

[Rosemary2205]

9. This is very easy to fix.

Live in an unincorporated part of the county where there is no homeowners association. I can't understand why people buy a house where there is a homeowners association and then have a fit because they can't do anything they please with their property. That's the whole point of a homeowner's association, to get everyone to conform to a certain standard.

[Ecumenist]

25. Amen, Rosemary!!

:applause: I made a POINT of avoiding anywhere that had a HOA. I ABSO-EFFING-LUTELY despise them because the things that they require are ridiculous, often VERY controlling and there have been a number of situations here in Northern California where people have either been driven out of there own home or pushed to the point of bankruptcy by HOA boards where someone on the board doesn't like the homeowner. They start racking up charges that the victim has to pay and has no real recourse.

My husband and I bought a property in the northwestern Sacramento valley. It took us over 4 years to find it with a major reason being HOAs. Our acreage in is a Beautifully rural county in the UNINCORPORATED AREA and althoughsome of the properties aren't what I would call "top of the line", they are being improved as more people buy in that county from other regions of California. We are going to put in a solar power system, wind power etc.

[gratuitous]

10. Then don't live in a homeowners association

Homeowners associations have to file their declaration of covenants and by-laws with the state, and anyone contemplating buying a home in a residential community should take a day going through those rules and restrictions. Buyers should also be very aware that the home they're buying belongs to them to the limit of the sheet rock. The exterior of their house, the driveways, the walkways, the lawns and anything else visible from the street belong to the association. If you want to change the outward appearance of your house, you're going to need at least a majority of the other owners in the association to approve any changes, and perhaps unanimous agreement. It's spelled out very clearly in the governing documents.

Homeowners associations are voluntary membership groups. Part of the allure of the $834,000 Scarsdale homes is their uniform appearance, and closely enforced rules and regulations.

[meldroc]

17. Why would you "buy" a home this way?

You don't even own the exterior walls of your own house? You don't own the land containing your yard?

That's a damn crock. As far as I'm concerned, when I buy a house, I want the whole damn house, and the land it sits on to be completely mine.

[gratuitous]

24. There are all sorts of trade-offs

Generally speaking, houses in a planned development appreciate and maintain their value better than houses in "open" neighborhoods, for exactly the reason that the neighborhood and the houses and the plots all look pretty much the same. People who like that aesthetic are willing to pay more for a house in that kind of a development, and the association is an enforcement mechanism that makes sure it stays that way. In addition, costs to maintain sidewalks, housing exteriors, roofs and so forth are shared among the owners in the development. In an "open" neighborhood, if your neighbor lets his property go to pot and the local building inspectors aren't inclined to fine him or otherwise enforce compliance of code violations, you can be stuck next to an eyesore property that lowers your property's value. Trade-offs.

Planned developments are clearly not for everyone, myself included. But there are ways to effect changes in the permanent documents, though. The association board can be petitioned to amend the covenants or by-laws, and depending on the rules of the Association and the amendment sought, changes can be made by a majority vote (50% + 1), supermajority vote (2/3) or a unanimous vote.

My reading of the story is that the homeowners in question started erecting the solar panels on their roof before they went through the administrative maze, and they should have known that they were making a change to property that didn't belong to them.

[DURHAM D]

22. I think you have overstated the "owner" issues. You own

(unless your free standing home is a condo, which is highly unlikely) the exterior including all of those improvements. However, an Association may be able to tell you how it needs to "appear". Unless you own in an older community the required approval for change is usually not through all the home owners but through the board or a review committee.

HOAs are generally a representative democracy.

[gratuitous]

27. I should have said

It depends on the governing documents just how much of any plot belongs to the property owner, and how much belongs to the association (that is, all the property owners in the development). It varies from association to association, but the ones I'm familiar with state that the building envelope (siding, EIFS, etc.) belong to the Association. The bad news is that the owner can't paint his house any color he wants. The good news is the owner isn't solely responsible for pursuing a construction defect claim if his house leaks.

Trade-offs.

[DURHAM D]

12. Just curious - Who do you think wrote the governing documents? n/t

[DBoon]

13. HOA policies should not be allowed to counter public policy

There is a public interest in encouraging renewable energy.

HOA restrictions that run counter to this policy should be uneforceable.

Just like racial covenants are no longer enforceable.

[DURHAM D]

18. HOA restrictions must be enforced or the Board is liable and

can face lawsuits from members of the community who want the rules enforced.

On the other hand, everyone in the community should work together to change the existing governing documents to address needed changes. In order to change the governing documents all members of the community can vote affirmatively to change the provisions - usually the vote required to change is 66% - 100%, depending on the type of change and provisions in the Declaration.

[meldroc]

23. There needs to be a limit to that liability.

Otherwise you have the overly legalistic crap that comes from HOAs - persnickity snots with cameras and clipboards snapping pictures of your house and filing complaints because your lawn has a yellow spot in it, or you didn't paint your house with the correct shade of beige, because the HOA board's obligated to be extra anal.

[DURHAM D]

28. You are, generally speaking, overstating the activities

(and interests) of most community boards. If a community ends up with a rules crazy person as you mentioned they are generally removed from the review committee by the Board. The Boards I am involved with work very hard to keep things in balance.

Sometimes, however, there are zealots on both ends of the regulation issues. When that happens the owners need to attend the annual meeting or petition for a special meeting and air out their problems.

[damntexdem]

15. Down here, a nearby city has hassled a family for zeriscaping their lawn.

And it's considering an ordinance to limit the percentage of a yard that can be planted in native plants.

The homeowner's association where we bought in also has a ban on yardsigns. But we haven't been hassled about our election signs for Democratic candidates -- likely because so many yards sprout election signs for GOPers.

[Warpy]

19. People thought I was nuts for buying a fixer

in a funky neighborhood, but there are no HOAs to be taken over by the street martinet, no guidelines for what colors to paint, no guidelines mandating a stupid lawn here in the desert, and nobody to complain if people work on their cars on the weekend, have an old couch on the porch while they save for a swing, or hang their laundry outside.

Screw snob zoning, screw kvetching about solar panels, and screw people who crab about their property values if a neighbor's lawn gets a little shaggy when s/he is traveling.

[Drifter]

21. I could never understand ...

why anyone would want to live in one of these neighborhoods.
Are they FREE or something.

As far as I am concerned, I can do whatever the fuck I want on my property, so long as it is not insulting or harming anyone.

Cheers
Drifter

[One_Life_To_Give]

30. Many are Cheaper, substandard Lot, Road, etc.

At least the places I am familiar with in the Northeast. Where 3 or 4 houses could be built. By using a community green area, narrower roads (less base as well) some 8 or more houses can be built. Then an association is put in to take care of the "common" green area and the road.

A no dogs covenent was put in for a group of otherwise normal Rural Residential Zoned properties. At the time the acerage was split into individual lots the deeds all had the covenent added.

[marions ghost]

26. glad I'm not the only one

who doesn't like homogenous cookie cutter neighborhoods ruled over by nitpicky busybodies. All the palladian dollhouses must be white or brick. No nothing in the yard except the approved shrubbery and putting green chem lawn. No signs of life in these soulless neighborhoods, just the glow of the big screen TV.

"Desirable" neighborhoods. Not to me.

[meldroc]

29. Oh, remembered a story: HOA fines homeowner for displaying peace symbol wreath.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10399793/detail.html

Thankfully, the subsequent uproar forced this HOA to back off, but that's the thing that some homeowners are forced to deal with.

Sure there are lots of HOAs that are halfway decent, that actually are democratically run, but some are run by Karl Rove wannabees who rig the rules in their favor, resort to dirty tricks, and harass the hell out of homeowners they don't like until they're driven off their own property, while others they do like can get away with murder.

[flvegan]

31. One instance where Florida got it RIGHT...FS 163.04

Florida Statute, Section 163.04

Energy devices based on renewable resources.-

(1) Notwithstanding any provision of this chapter or other provision of general or special law, the adoption of an ordinance by a governing body, as those terms are defined in this chapter, which prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting the installation of solar collectors, clotheslines, or other energy devices based on renewable resources is expressly prohibited.

(2) No deed restrictions, covenants, or similar binding agreements running with the land shall prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting solar collectors, clotheslines, or other energy devices based on renewable resources from being installed on buildings erected on the lots or parcels covered by the deed restrictions, covenants, or binding agreements. A property owner may not be denied permission to install solar collectors or other energy devices based on renewable resources by any entity granted the power or right in any deed restriction, covenant, or similar binding agreement to approve, forbid, control, or direct alteration of property with respect to residential dwellings not exceeding three stories in height. For purposes of this subsection, such entity may determine the specific location where solar collectors may be installed on the roof within an orientation to the south or within 45 ° east or west of due south provided that such determination does not impair the effective operation of the solar collectors.

(3) In any litigation arising under the provisions of this section, the prevailing party shall be entitled to costs and reasonable attorney's fees.

(4) The legislative intent in enacting these provisions is to protect the public health, safety, and welfare by encouraging the development and use of renewable resources in order to conserve and protect the value of land, buildings, and resources by preventing the adoption of measures which will have the ultimate effect, however unintended, of driving the costs of owning and operating commercial or residential property beyond the capacity of private owners to maintain. This section shall not apply to patio railings in condominiums, cooperatives, or apartments.

History.-s. 8, ch. 80-163; s. 1, ch. 92-89; s. 14, ch. 93-249.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Well, we can rest assured that they aren't "Nappy Headed HOA's"

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[robinlynne]

37. Anyone who thinks solar panels are an eyesore has a great big huge problem.

I can't believe this can actually be enforced. A ton of garbage sitting on the street is an eyesore. A solar panel is delightful and beautiful. and patriotic. and so much more. Seems to be some architects association or similar should be alerted.

[The Doctor.]

39. I've had neighbors like that.

They learn to STFU right quick. :evilgrin: