Help me win a disagreement..... Plame Affair.

[liberalitch]

Was she or was she not a covert agent?
I though that was cleared up in the inquiry and libby's trial.
I was under the impression it was made clear she was.
If I am right.... Who/what cleared that up?

[AllegroRondo]

1. According to the CIA director at the time,

she was covert. He said so during the hearing Plame testified at a couple weeks ago. So did Plame herself.

[youthere]

2. Director of the CIA testified that she was covert.

[MADem]

3. Yes. And anyone who is still "disagreeing" is a wingnut. Step away before you are contaminated. NT

[LSK]

4. yes she was, it said so in the Court documents, Fitz press conference, her House hearing

Waxman confirmed it with the CIA at his hearing, she testified to it.

Its been confirmed all over the place.

[KansDem]

20. Yeah, but "some people say..." certainly trumps court documents, Fitz's press conference,

the House hearing, Waxman's statement, the CIA director's statement, and her testimony any day, doesn't it? :crazy:

[NMDemDist2]

5. a letter from the Director of CIA to the Chairman of the cmte

prior to Ms. Plame's appearance in congress. It's (the letter) is part of the Congressional Record and clearly states Ms. Plame was a covert agent.

[liberalitch]

8. Would you happen to know where a girl can read that letter?

I tried a google search

[NMDemDist2]

11. here's a link to Waxman's opening statement that includes the declassified

info from the CIA (most of the letter is classified and not available to the public)

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070316172636-89494.pdf

[11 Bravo]

6. There is no longer any legitimate disagreement about this.

The DCI has stated that Plame was covert at the time Novakula followed his marching orders and outed her.

[groovedaddy]

7. I believe there are different designations

for people working under cover, which Plame definately was. The front company she worked through was definately of CIA origin. Clearly, she could not present herself in public as a CIA employee, which would have blown her cover and that of the front company. Dick, Karl & Company did it instead.
She may not have been a "covert agent" technically, but she was definately working under cover.

[NoGOPZone]

9. Covert, see these threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=284x343

[Sweet Freedom]

14. A cyber donut for you my friend

:donut:

or would you prefer a :beer:

I think this is the first time I've seen someone besides me refer a DUer to the Debunker :hi:

[NoGOPZone]

18. It's one of our most important forums, IMHO

I can't post there because I'm not a donor, but I read it regularly.

[Sweet Freedom]

23. I'm glad you found it. /nt

[yardwork]

10. Ask your wing-nut friend why Bush didn't fire Rove as he promised

After Plame's cover was blown, Bush said that he would fire anyone involved in leaking her identity. Rove leaked her identity - he admitted to doing so under oath.

Why hasn't Bush fired Rove yet? Isn't Bush a man of his word?

Ask your friend.

[Mz Pip]

12. why bother to request an

investigation if she was just an office worker? And why would Rove, et. al. go through all the lies and distortions if her position in the CIA was nothing of significance? Why lie, why cover up?

Doesn't pass the smell test any other way.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[tiptoe]

13. "Gen. Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments..." (by Henry Waxman):

Waxman: General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing:

During her employment at the CIA Ms Wilson was under cover.

Her employment status with the CIA was CLASSIFIED information, prohibited from disclousre under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert.

This was classified information.

Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work of other CIA employees, and she attained the level of GS-14, step 6 under the federal pay scale.

Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA.

Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA.

Without discussing the specifics of Ms. Wilson's classified work, it is accurate to say that she worked on the prevention of the development and use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States.

In her various positions at the CIA, Ms. Wilson faced significant risks to her personal safety and her life.
...

Source - PDF, page 2: Statement of Rep Henry A Waxman Chairman, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform Hearing on Disclosure of CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilsons Identity and White House Procedures for Safeguarding Classified Information - March 16 2007

Source - Video: Hearing Examines Exposure of Covert CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilson's Identity (the very first few minutes of the hearing, March 16, 2007)

And, for purposes of responding to Ms. Toensing (who appears last in the hearing video) the thread (above): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=284x343

http://tinyurl.com/QKK23

[BOSSHOG]

15. A question to ask those who say she was not covert

Our fellow DUers have given you ample evidence that Ms Plame was indeed a Patriotic American covertly serving her country. But if anyone says she wasn't ask them if she were just an insignificant, unimportant desk jockey as the right wing disinformation machine has labeled her, why the need to expose her identity? The bush administration is a crime family. They do nothing without evil motive.

If she wasn't a target, why the need to shoot at her? Conservatives are scum. Conservatism is a cancer.

[Javaman]

16. Reids opening statement when Plame testified

stated that she was covert. His speach was vetted by the CIA.

So therefore, yes, she was covert contrary to all the rightwing ultra bushbot nutjobs out there.

[slipslidingaway]

17. Novak column to cloud the issue, see below.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/RobertDNovak/2007/04/12/cia_politics&Comments=true

originally found here

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/04/is_cia_chief_ha.html

[mmonk]

19. Covert all the way.

She also had gone on overseas missions within the past five years as well. And when they are rotated back to Washington, they are still covert. Anyone who says she isn't is lying or is someone who follows rightwing lies blindly until it becomes a religion. Hope that clears that up. And if you'd like to help her get justice in her civil trial, here is a link: http://www.wilsonsupport.org/

[Jack Rabbit]

21. A few answers

Valerie Plame was a covert agent. The small print in your opponent's argument may be whether she was covert under the IPPA, which is a matter of dispute.

She definitely had a cover. If any one asked her for years, she said she worked for Brewster Jennings as an energy consultant. Of course, there really was no Brewster Jennings; it was a CIA cover. When Cheney, Libby, Rove and Company blew her cover, they also blew the cover of any agent who had said he worked for Brewster Jennings. There should be no doubt that this, by itself, prejudiced US national security efforts, especially in the field of counterproliferation.

It is also a fact that Ms. Plame's actual employment with the CIA was classified. The very fact we now know that she worked for the CIA is a corpus delicti. To say there was no crime committed when her cover was blown is almost like arguing that the victim of an unsolved murder isn't dead.

I served in the United States Army thirty years ago with the MOS 98J, an MI MOS described as an electronic warfare specialist. A Top Secret clearance comes with the territory. I was trained to handle classified information and warned (as all my J's were warned) that I could be prosecuted if I mishandled that information. If I had mishandled the information about Ms. Plame's employment at the CIA as the rogues in the White House and OVP did, I could have faced a court martial. I would have have been prosecuted under the IPPA for the simple reason that it did not become law until several years after I got out of the Army.

[Nye Bevan]

22. She was certainly covert given the CIA definition of the word "covert"

and also given the standard English meaning of the word.

However, there is room for disagreement on the question of whether she was covert according to the definition of "covert" under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA). To be "covert" under the IIPA requires that "an agent have classified status and the the agent "is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States". Valerie Plame *did* take trips overseas during the last 5 years but it is not clear that this constitutes *service* overseas for the IIPA. It is possible that Fitzgerald concluded that he could not prove that Plame was covert for IIPA purposes and that this is why there were no prosecutions under this act.

Of course none of this means that Rove, Libby and co. are anything but total scumbags.