Can anyone with rethug friends or family answer this....?

[RiverStone]

We are into year 5 of this tragic, immoral, and reckless military aggression in Iraq. The DEMS are trying, albeit rather unsuccessfully, to impose deadlines, benchmarks, and timetables to end this war based on lies. Unfortunately, Shrub will send any bill back with above noted recommendations and until more rethugs join the majority opinion on The Hill - we are stuck negotiating with this criminal regime.

To get to a VETO PROOF position, it seems rethugs politicians would need to hear from their constituents in greater numbers - enough loud voices from both parties to suggest that continuation of support for Shrub's plan which keeps sending our brave soldiers into a civil war is political suicide.

What I can't fathom is why, why, WHY rethugs still justify Shrub's actions? I understood for the first 2-3 years that many pukes simply followed Shrub without asking questions. Now at year 5, with over 3,300 Americans killed, with over 25,000 Americans wounded, and countless thousands of Iraqi's killed, wounded, or displaced - how does any puke you may personally know justify this tragic mess now?

Throw in for good measure the obvious concealment practices in the DoD (see Pat Tillman), the distrust in the Justice Dept (see Gonzo), and the convictions within the administration (see Libby et.al) - how the fuck does anybody call themselves a Republican anymore and feel good about it?

Just wondering? I so don't get it. :shrug:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. My rethug idiot in congress

basically says that he doesn't care what I think, he's supporting the President and what am I, a traitor? Of course, he's wary of "Muslims", which really must make it fun when he reads my letters.

[Taverner]

2. According to my dad, my RW bellweather...

(I can always find out how low the Rethugs will go after talking to him)

We need to win in Iraq so that Iran will not attack us. This is their new talking point, and expect it to justify action against "the great Persian threat"

[Bluerthanblue]

11. could you ask your Da for me- just what "winning in Iraq" is? not

sarcastic in any way shape or form- I just cannot envision what "winning" (without an eternal police presence) would look like???

And if believes that the ONLY way to leave Iraq is as "the winner"?


There is that quote about war not deciding who is "right" but rather only who is left 'standing'-
(winners aren't always 'good')

thanks-
blu

[Taverner]

15. He thinks they should level Iraq

No joke - he says "rubble will cause no trouble"

[Bluerthanblue]

23. oh boy....

... that's a hard answer to address-

So he basically is saying we should cleanse Iraq of all it's citizens, and either leave it a nuclear wasteland (which wouldn't be good for the oil co's) or make it ours-

Isn't that what "the bad guys" do??? What is the point of 'winning' when you become worse than "your enemy" when all is said and done???

And, isn't what he is advocating more in line with Hitler than Democracy?

Sorry- preaching to the choir I'm sure- I wish you courage and peace- :hi:

blu

[Taverner]

27. Yes - and he admires Hitler to some extent

He liked all the 30s era fascists: Franco, Mussolini and Hitler. He said Adolf's main mistake was hating the Jews; if he just would have made nice and brought them into the Nazis (ooooh boy...) things would have been wonderful.

I realize there is no changing his mind. Thing is, he should know better. He's highly educated and very intelligent. He's just....WRONG!! FUCKING WRONG!!!

I like to think his 25+ years in the SFPD darkened his views somewhat.

But he serves as an excellent bellwether to find out how the GOP really thinks. Behind all of their carefully crafted sentences, the GOP is nothing more than a front for Fascism.

[Rosemary2205]

3. I mostly know Republicans or Indies.

Of those who supported GW in the beginning regarding Iraq none of them do now. In fact quite a few would not stand in the way of him getting impeached. They consider this entire admin to be a problem for the Republican party. There are only a couple of hold outs who are still repeating the "fight them over there" mantra and still supporting Bush.

I have to qualify this by saying none of these people are "Rush" or "Hannity" type Republicans (or Indies who voted Bush).

[RiverStone]

10. Then what is the disconnect...

Between the rethugs/indies that NOW DO NOT support Shrub and the rethugs on The Hill that still vote in lock step for him? Great to hear Rosemary that the folks you know have found common sense, but what about the politicians that get their votes.

Do these rethugs only represent themselves??? Why have they not also changed their mind?

I don't get why the shift in public opinion has not resulted in an equal shift from politicians (even republicans)?

[Rosemary2205]

28. In my case

Here in Georgia it's a choice between a dick and a dickier dick. Women and/or Democrats need not apply for congress or senate. The Republican party here rules with an iron foot and absolutely does not allow anything remotely like a moderate get anywhere near a national office. You'd be surprised how purple Georgia really is but you'd never know it by who is put up for national OR state office. And the RNC makes sure those who get enough money to gain national office are all asshole freeps who will drink whatever koolaid is handed out.

Why the Repubs in Georgia have let the religious nutballs and racist turds take over politics this state is beyond my understanding too.

[BOSSHOG]

4. I say this with all sincerity

My observations of bush supporters (those making less then 80K per household per year). They started with a great deal of arrogance and chest thumping 5-6 years ago. They were the center of the fucking power vortex in the universe. Now internally they know they have been backing a military destroying loser but being "conservatives," they are too proud to admit it. Throw in a healthy dose of ignorance which blooms out of their desire to believe stuff instead of know stuff and wala ya still got a lively but dwindling number of big bad bush supporters.

My brothers in law who back bush don't chat about politics or Iraq anymore. Their children are getting to be that age which makes them eligible for military service. I just don't understand their silence. I mean the war was real cool when the kids were in the eighth grade.

[orleans]

8. "the war was real cool when the kids were in the eighth grade."

i know a couple people like that. but i don't see them encouraging their kids to sign up to fight--apparently that is simply the fate of those who did sign up (thinking: well, they volunteered--and this is what happens).

so easy to be puffed up & threatening & a hard ass with OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN.

ugh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. too much family strife if you dropped a recruiter to talk to them?

Bosh they are not the only ones who think that. A couple of my neighbors, they were all for Bush. their daughter graduates HS next year... I have made the suggestion, that it is time to put their support where it belongs and have junior enlist in the armed forces, even in the early entry program... which reqwires their signature

To say that they were aghast when I said that is to put it midly... they were about to open mouth, when I pointed to the DoD sicker in the truck. They didn't say a thing any more... of course the Daughter is against the war (which surprise me) so she was aghast, until I explained the logic to her. At that point she went, hu-hu, many of the parents she knows were all for the war until the kids got old enough. Now that their kids are almost of military age they are hoping we get out before the kids can join... just in case they should.

And this is why I am all for a no hold bar, no exception Military Draft... every time we go to war. And I will repeat this, NO EXCEPTIONS, everybody serves military draft

[BOSSHOG]

19. They are my wife's brothers

My wife and I, the only two members of both families of our generation to serve in the military. I won't press the issue because I know it would hurt my wife. However, if they bring the issue up, no holds barred, but they know better then to talk about bush or Iraq around me.

I'm with ya on the draft. Even those with medical issues can find a job somewhere in uniform. Although limbaugh might fuck up changing bedpans he's be gainfully employed.

[deutsey]

29. Yep...very few of them can admit they were wrong

and that stems from the uninformed arrogance you mention that characterizes so many of them.

[KansDem]

36. My sister and BIL voted for Bush in 2000...

We used to argue the standard issues which she backed up with GOP/hate radio talking points. Now that many of those points have been disproven, or proven to be lies, my sister refuses to debate. Whenever I bring up a touchy subject ("How 'bout those WMDs, Sis?), she will respond with something like, "Oh, I just don't think much about that anymore. I've got too much to worry about in my personal life!" Then she'll go into a diatribe about her home, car, job, son, husband, etc...

It's like she's trying to discount all the really bad stuff she used to believe in by trying to label it as insignificant and not worth her time and attention any more.

[treestar]

5. They keep themselves ignorant, so the surface justification works for them

They get it to be so simple in their minds, that they still think that killing as many Muslims as possible prevents more terra here. They won't open up any other issues in their minds.

They also have in their minds that the U.S. must "win" and they refuse to think about it any further than that.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. I was told "the president really doesn't have the power to do...

anything anyway. It's Congress."

duh.

Of course, I enlightened this person about B*sh's policy of using signing statements, and the fact that Repubs were in control in Congress the last six years.

But by saying "congress" it's some nebulous entity....taking the blame off of any one or small group of people like the administration. And, of course, they throw up their hands at that point when you try to get specific and say, "Ah, they're all crooks anyway. It's the way it's always been."

Bah-humbug.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. The co-worker I argued with the other day about the war in Iraq

still spouts the same talking points that we've been hearing for the last 4 years or more. I don't know if it's just that people are too lazy to search for the truth or if they can't admit that they were wrong. It just blows me away that some of the people I know who still advance this viewpoint are actually intelligent people when it comes to other matters, but when it comes to Iraq they seem to have lost all of their ability to reason and think for themselves.

[butterfly77]

12. Print out a page a day and leave it on her desk...

or that explains the lies that her commander and thief and his cronies have done since she is to lazy to to search for on her own, something that disputes her talking points, until she finally gets the message. I suggest this for anyone who has someone who refuses to believe, if it is a family member put it on their bed,mailbox or any place they will see and continue it everyday and see if anything changes.

[Arkansas Granny]

21. Actually, I did print some stuff out for him At one point during our

"conversation" he asked me where I got my news, implying that I didn't have any facts at my disposal. I printed out some data from the U.S. census bureau, the International Red Cross and other reputable sources that backed up my arguments and thoroughly debunked his and left it on his desk. I found it in his trash the next day, but he has not had his usual attitude the last few days, so I think he must have read some of it.

[butterfly77]

38. Keep it coming....

[leftofthedial]

9. the repukes I know fall into three camps

about 20% have "seen the light" and abhor bush and his policies

about 40% never think beyond the "home-team-big-game" mentality; politics is "too complicated" and "all politicians lie" so why bother with it, just keep voting for "their team" the repukes; no chance they'll ever pay attention long enough to find out anything beyond a few bumperstickers they memorized back in the 80's

about 40% are truly soulless sociopathic narcissists who believe anything is fine as long as they personally benefit; if they object to the illegal occupation of Iraq, it is purely due to some economic reason



I am disgusted with a huge chunk of the American people.

[hfojvt]

34. alot of them are always reading, digging up, and talking trash

about Democrats. As long as the Democrats are worse, in their eyes, they will support their side. The 3,600 deaths since the war began are never going to bother them as much as the 4 million dead babies (abortions) which took place since then. Since all government is evil, they do not expect alot from their guy, but they know the tax and spend-big government Democrats would be worse.

[Morrisons Ghost]

13. The true conservatives that I know

Can't stand him but for different reasons,spending,border control and some of them are uncomfortable with the whole fundamentalist christian thing as well believe it or not.Some of them supported the war in Iraq at first actually believeing the WMD justification but as the war drags on and more money is spent they would rather just get out of there altogether.When you ask them who they will vote for next time all of them will tell you "A true conservative" they will not be voting Democrat,will never happen.MG

[Sweet Freedom]

14. Because deep-down they support the genocide.

As long as we're killing non-Christian brown people, they're okay with that.

[Karenina]

25. It is the deeply imbedded racism in the American psyche

that perpetuates this grotesque occupation and GENOCIDE. Dem ragheads need to be put in their place and shown who's REALLY DA BOSS. Dey got the OIL fix WE need, WE GET FIRST DIBS, so FUCK 'EM. NUKE 'EM INTO GLASS.

[Sir Jeffrey]

16. My observations about several in my family...

1. They know very little about politics and news in general. They pay little attention to news on a daily basis and get most of their news in passing from talk radio or the morning shows like Today. When Matt Lauer and Rush Limbaugh are your main sources for news analysis, your positions will probably be moronic.

2. They are optimists who will follow anyone claiming things are going good regardless of facts. It comes from that "you are what you think" brainwashing the corporations spew daily.

3. They are uneducated in political matters...as such they have no real capacity to understand and properly infer when presented with information.

4. Some of it is, I believe, willful blindness on their part because to recognize or acknowledge the truth would be a. emotionally disturbing and b. contrary to their brainwashing. It is a defense mechanism to protect their belief in myths...both spiritual beliefs about God and physical beliefs about how great America is.

5. I cannot underestimate the role of organized religion in this type of thinking. Organized religion (as practiced by American right wingers) is a hierarchical system of control that disapproves of questioning, challenging authority, or pluralism.

6. A great deal of it is probably projection on their part. The right wing is the movement of projecting their hangups, prejudices, and inner demons onto others. The anti-gay movement probably has a lot of closet gays. The pro-war movement is full of chickenhawks and bullies. Those feeling insecure because of their ignorance are the loudest to spew talking points in order to appear intelligent. And so forth.

[RiverStone]

32. Insightful and I believe your observations...

Apply to many on the ignorant right.

I particularly found your #4 to resonate with my grasp of WTF these folks are thinking (or NOT thinking). Willful blindness sure makes life easier - and reduces it to simple and unrealistic formulas. Gawd, what a sheltered way to live. Yuk!

How would your family react to you Jeffery if you shared this list with them?

[Sir Jeffrey]

37. My family is full of right wingers...

I could show them this list and they would probably say I was possessed by the devil.

[antigop]

39. #4. ..Defense mechanism to protect their belief in myths -- there is a term for this

It's called "cognitive dissonance".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

>>
Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term which describes the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time, or from engaging in behavior that conflicts with one's beliefs. More precisely, it is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, where "cognition" is defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions.
>>

[kerry-is-my-prez]

17. My mother believes the b.s. that Bush & Co. is spewing...

"We can't leave Iraq because the whole middle east will blow up if we do."

My Repub brother who used to be a Faux news junkie thinks that most of the Faux news people are full of it but he still listens to Limbaugh. Other than that - he's sort of tuning it all out. He's pretty depressed about it all.

[seabeyond]

20. we have to win, nothing else acceptable (that doesn't leave much room)

the world as we know it will come to an end. (regardless that we obviously cannot make a win, how can one continue to say we have to, as we dont). they dont believe all the shit you profess, they simply say it is dem lie. regardless of fact, if a person continually denies its existence, then it is not.... fact doesn't matter. and it is media not supporting the war that is causing bush problem, not bush and is efforts, and it is sean penn who is the ultimate in creating this struggle because if he had never said anything in the first place, bushco would have one hands down immediately

this is what i am hearing.

[RiverStone]

33. Too bad they can't see or hear...

...they simply say it is dem lie. regardless of fact, if a person continually denies its existence, then it is not.... fact doesn't matter.

Luke---beware the dark side.

[riderinthestorm]

22. My Rethug mother tells me that * is a good Christian and she trusts him.

Especially as our CIC (insert her nauseating swoon here), he is masterfully leading the fight against the brown horde at our borders and overseas. We can't allow the troops' sacrifice to go for nothing - we must fight till we "win" (defined just as * defines it: "when they stand up, we'll stand down"). She also believes * will protect the poor embryos from the rampaging Dems who want to torture them for stem cell research. She's a homophobe and ill-educated about taxation and believes *'s tax cuts are fabulous (although they don't apply to her income level).

Have I said enough? Yes, she is one of the hard-core 28% and frankly we haven't really spoken in almost two years since our last blow-out although I know she still believes all this shit since she sneered at the new crop of bumper stickers already adorning my new-ish car just last week when I had to drop off her prescriptions at her house. I don't even go in her house anymore since the only station she watches is Faux.

Also, I live in deep red fundieville. The people who surround me (her) support * because of his Christianity (sic), abortion/stem cell positions and guns, as well as their belief that * will "win" in Iraq unless the godless heathen Dems force us to "lose".

So basically, from what I can tell, they are brainwashed. It's a cult reinforced by Rush and Hannity and Faux and conservative newspapers like the Chicago Tribune and WSJ (popular newspapers in my town and the two my mom reads religiously.) They are also reinforced by their deep red fundie neighbors and they perpetuate their mania. If one has an Alan Keyes election sign in their front yard, sooner or later everyone on the block has an Alan Keyes election sign in their front yard.

From my experience every single day, these people are NOT reachable. You cannot hold a dialogue with them in order to try to change their minds either subtly or overtly.

I mean, the fucking embryos are suffering?? There's just no common ground if they are starting there in their support of *.

[RiverStone]

35. Wow, damn good thing you never drank the kool-aid...

Thats quite a descriptive (and depressing) review of the idiot and sheltered right in fundieville.

Considering your rethug mom is brainwashed and marching in a stupor to *'s propaganda - how did you, riderinthestorm, escape such a sad fate yourself? Congrats for doing so! :applause: For someone so close to someone so lost, you articulate the delusions of the right very well.

Lets hope that something amazing happens to shake your mom outta her Shrub coma. Sound's like a long shot though...

[SmokingJacket]

24. I don't know because I don't talk to them about it

anymore. Seriously, they make me want to scream.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. My husband believes we owe it to the Iraqis to stay and clean up the mess.

He thinks it will be a slaughter if we leave.

[deutsey]

30. As opposed to the slaughter resulting from our arrival.

:evilfrown:

[LibDemAlways]

31. There's a nauseating show on Bravo called "The

Real Housewives of Orange County" focusing on the most vaucous, vapid group of self-absorbed women you would ever hope not to encounter in your life.

A recent commercial for the show featured one of the airheads declaring that she's a repuke but doesn't know why. I think that about sums it up. In order to identify with the party of hate, corporate greed, and hypocrisy, you'd have to either be too stupid and/or ignorant to know what it's about or be an evil, greedy, corrupt SOB who knows and willfully embraces the dark side. Either way, it isn't pretty.

[Geek_Girl]

40. I know several conservatives

But I don't know of anyone that is wholeheartedly behind this war. All of the Bush Supporters I have know seem to support bush because they don't like the democrats. It's more of a personality popularity issue. They like Bush and other republicans because those politicians are more likable. In our mass marketing consumer society, re pukes have marketed and sold themselves to a vast majority of Americans who buy into their BS.

[senseandsensibility]

41. The republicans that I know don't know the facts you

wrote about. They subsist on a diet of limppig and faux news. They believe everything they hear from these two sources, and are encouraged by them to trust no other news source. Hence, they read no newspapers and would sooner die than watch "liberal" CNN. In short, they are ignorant.