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I want to scream at "liberals" who supported the war: YOU BRAINDEAD TOOLS!!

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:39 PM
Original message
I want to scream at "liberals" who supported the war: YOU BRAINDEAD TOOLS!!
Edited on Wed Apr-25-07 04:43 PM by BurtWorm
You enabled the human misery and chaos we've been witnessing from "Mission Accomplished" on! Don't get all sanctimonious about your lonely championing of the struggle against dictatorship. You have no right to congratulate yourselves on your alleged concern for the Iraqi people. It's your self-hypnosis by your own ideology that blinded you to the hundreds and thousands of lives that were really at stake in Iraq.

You're no better than the Bushists.

Take for instance Paul Berman and Thomas Cushman, both of whom replied to Dissent's question about lessons learned from the Iraq war. Berman's hyper-intellectuallism is bad enough, but at least he doesn't sound totally clueless like Cushman, whose self-delusion follows:

WHAT MIGHT a liberal defender of the war say to critics at the present moment? My answers are simple and even plaintive: if you stood in solidarity with the Iraqi people enough to support them in their decades of struggle against Saddam’s terror, if you bore witness to and championed them in the heady days of their free and democratic elections, if you affirmed the efforts of the Iraqi labor movement and women’s rights organizations, and now things are taking a turn for the worse, you ought to redouble your effort to stand in solidarity with them. The last thing—the very last thing—you would say to them is that on March 1, 2008, we will surrender to the enemies that are butchering you now and who are emboldened by the arguments of defeatists in the U.S. Congress and by candidates for president.

Such arguments fall flat among those on the left who never showed solidarity with the Iraqis during the early days of the war and who refused to listen to them when a substantial majority indicated that they supported the coalition war to depose Saddam and create a democratic Iraq. They fall flat among those on the left who willfully ignored any and all good news coming out of Iraq for several years before things took a turn for the worse in the last year. Free elections in which seven million Iraqis voted for the first time? Silence. The rise of the labor movement from virtually nothing to almost one million members today? Silence. An Iraqi Parliament 30 percent of whose members are women (almost twice the paltry 17 percent in the United States)? Silence. The outstanding achievements of Iraqi Kurdistan? Silence. Where is Kurdistan, anyway?

THESE SILENCES were accompanied by a constant focus on the intransigencies of the Coalition forces, the demonization of the United States and George W. Bush (perhaps deserved, but with a life all its own), and odd declamations by leftists who harped for years on the dangers of orientalism about how “they” (the Iraqis) are not “ready” for democracy. There are, of course, good-faith, well-grounded criticisms of the war, and perhaps we have reached a position of what might be called ontological failure. But if, perhaps, it is foolish to believe that something called democracy can emerge from the current wreckage, it is most certainly the case that something quite the opposite of democracy will be established in Iraq if the Democrats have their way. The hardest observation to make is that either a retreat from democratization or an effort to salvage it will produce further loss of life.

ALL THIS ADDS UP to the fact that there has been little that can be considered “liberal” in the dominant positions of the left regarding the war. No matter where one turns in so-called liberal arguments there are illiberal dead ends. The UN is an undemocratic and illiberal organization that would have been considered an abomination by the liberal republican Immanuel Kant. International law, and particularly the law that protects rulers like Saddam, is manipulated by tyrants to foster their murderous agendas, while restraining the power of liberal states to intervene against them. The call for surrender in the war—and let us call it what it is—is made without any consideration of the consequences of withdrawal for the substantial number of liberal people and movements in Iraq, to say nothing of how al-Qaeda will be emboldened to strike us again at a time and place of its choosing. This is not to denigrate those who have made the decision to oppose the war. It is to alert them to the fact that the American president and his left-wing ally Tony Blair really are a force for liberal internationalist solidarity. They have made mistakes and will be held to account in the historical record. They may, in fact, be guilty of everything their detractors say about them, but the latter are in no way the superior moral force, despite their pious tones. That Iraq is a tragedy is inescapable. That escaping from it is a virtue is arguable.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know about Berman and Cushman, but my position on war is this:
Edited on Wed Apr-25-07 05:04 PM by Selatius
Unless some nation decides to plant its armies on the US border with the intent to invade the US, then I don't think the US should be involved in any damn war.

If the UN asked for peace keepers in places like Darfur, sure, we could send some, but we're not going to go in without clear, precise rules of engagement that allow our troops to defend themselves if attacked.

The US was established to ensure the well-being of its citizens, and if the citizens no longer feel it serves that purpose, then by the Declaration of Independence the people have a right to alter or abolish that government and institute a new one. It was not established to be a world police officer, and it was not established to slay every tyranny in existence.

If liberals were so intent on liberating Iraqis from under the boot of Saddam, they could've gone over as volunteer insurgents to topple Saddam. This isn't something new. When the Spanish Civil War broke out, tens of thousands of Americans volunteered and went to fight on Spanish soil. They did not come in under the flag of the US Army or the Marines. They came by themselves, representing themselves. Many of these volunteers were socialists, communists, unionists, and others, but they don't have a right to use the organs of the state to oppose foreign tyranny because that state serves all people, and not all people agree, and that state was not established for that purpose to begin with.

Just because a person thinks Iraqis would be better off without Saddam is not the same thing as using the armies of a nation-state to impose that idea. Democracy can't be imposed. It must come because the people want to fight for it. Much like everything else that falls under democracy, democracy itself is also a choice.

Cushman failed to note that, and for that, he should be condemned as intellectually dishonest.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And terrorism requires police actions, not a war of invasion and permanent occupation..
IMHO

Afghanistan, I understood the rationale. The "evil axis"...that was just insane.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Good answer...
Because our present course of getting into wars to establish economic primacy ain't exactly working out.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Will Never Support War Mongers Like Hillary Under Any Circumstances
eom
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ends_dont_justify Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. I definitely agree
I've seen so many people on both sides support the war mindlessly, it's been so frustrating to watch.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. I understand the anger
But are you talking about those who supported the war in 2003, or those who support continuing the occupation today?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ones who supported it then and continue to apologize for supporting it now.
There's no excuse for being too dumb to see what was going on in 2003 and too proud now to admit you were too dumb then.
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yasmina27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's why I oppose Hillary
I don't care that she said that she made a mistake with her war vote.

If a peon like me, and other intelligent folks here at DU, (I lurked long before I joined), KNEW before the ilegal invasion that there was no reason, why couldn't SHE know?!

My husband believed all the crap prior to the war, an actually accused me of "being in love with Saddam Hussein" because I kept saying that there was no justification for what they were doing. To his credit, he doesn't mind being called a "flip-flopper". He has completely changed opinion, and has been to 2 DC marches with me, and can't wait for the next one!
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-25-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. What an extremely cogent and well-worded thesis...
However, when translated into our native tongue, all it means is "I don't know enough to come in out of the rain, and my grad school vocabulary isn't fooling anybody."


"...the American president and his left-wing ally Tony Blair really are a force for liberal internationalist solidarity."


Tony Blair is a flaming red and the boy king is a liberal internationalist.


In other news, my cats just took my car and went to the supermarket to buy their own poison-free food. Amazing how well they drive, one on the wheel and the other on the pedals.



wp
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