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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:02 PM Original message |
Damnit People, Take a Moment To Inform Yourselves On WHO the "Cadillac Tax" applies to |
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librechik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:09 PM Response to Original message |
1. Thank goodness! Ofcourse they would never DREAM of passing that cost along |
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Common Sense Party (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
2. Law of Unintended Consequences: What will happen NEXT? |
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TicketyBoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:19 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. There are always unintended consequences |
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Common Sense Party (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:21 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Great. Agreed. Now, what WILL be the consequences of taxing |
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TicketyBoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 08:10 PM Response to Reply #13 |
87. I don't know. |
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gratuitous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #2 |
24. "Cadillac" benefits are curtailed? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:38 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Depends on what the non-profit, state driven plan dictates. |
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SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
3. They will just start paring-down coverage |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
4. Facts matter- Thanks for posting EOM |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:12 PM Response to Original message |
5. Walk me through it like I'm five... |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:36 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. The Insurance company can't pass it onto the subscriber because they must maintain |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:39 PM Response to Reply #25 |
29. Right, the tax cannot be passed on, so the insurance company must pay it, I get that. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:40 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. Each state is required to run a non-profit plan that meets minimum standards set out by the OPM |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:46 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. But if I have a better than standard plan that the insurance company shuts down because it's not |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Better than standard or cadillac? Why are you upset if you are for a public option or single |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:51 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. Right now we have outstanding health insurance. It may be more costly, but it is a negotiated cost |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-08-10 01:46 AM Response to Reply #25 |
90. You can't be so naive not to understand the "MLR" is whatever the lawyers tell you it is. |
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Hello_Kitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:13 PM Response to Original message |
6. If it's meant to target executives it should account for income and be properly indexed |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:27 PM Response to Reply #6 |
15. "properly indexed" - Nuff said. |
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sui generis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:13 PM Response to Original message |
7. it's still a ridiculous place to place a tax. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:39 PM Response to Reply #7 |
28. That's what the tax is. It's a windfall tax on the Insurance Companies. |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:14 PM Response to Original message |
8. Would a labor union that administers its own health plan, with premiums paid into that plan by ... |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:18 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Good point. And as someone who was covered by one of these plans for years, |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #8 |
18. Only if it's an HSA plan that they make excess contributions to (>8300 / year) |
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GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:32 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. So a labor union is treated like an employer. That's real good. Helps workers and all. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. I thought you meant the employees of the Union. The union doesn't pay taxes |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:46 PM Response to Reply #8 |
36. yes. See part B - "the employer" |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #36 |
41. Wrong. The employer only pays tax on EXCESS HSA contributions. This closes an HSA tax loophole |
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jpak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:19 PM Response to Original message |
11. NOOooooo it's a tax on *union* benefits by the Evil Corporatist Obama!!!111 |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:20 PM Response to Original message |
12. Candidate Obama was concerned about the passing on of the tax to employees... |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:30 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. It isn't progressive but I am not sure I would say it is regressive. |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:37 PM Response to Reply #16 |
26. I can agree on "Stupid and hardly progressive." |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:39 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. No idea. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:42 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. It's called the run-around. Progressives can't openly put a windfall tax on the Insurance Companies |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:22 PM Response to Original message |
14. So you are saying Unions are EXEMPT from the tax? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:32 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Is the union the Health Insurance ISSUER? Are they the employer making excess HSA contributions? |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:51 PM Response to Reply #19 |
38. My employer pays into a fund, which I am credited with. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:02 PM Response to Reply #38 |
51. Do they pay more than 8300 / year per employee in the plan? |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:42 PM Response to Reply #51 |
61. $7.80 per hour worked is contributed to the Health & Welfare Fund. |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:49 PM Response to Reply #51 |
65. Still waiting for the answer.... |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:54 PM Response to Reply #51 |
66. Your answer? |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 07:29 PM Response to Reply #14 |
83. my father is a retired union operating engineer- he ran cranes his entire life... |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 07:53 PM Response to Reply #83 |
86. Notice the poster has not answered any of my questions. |
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OHdem10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
17. And the Insurance Companies plan to pass the tax on to the public. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:32 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. As pointed out, they cannot. They are limited by the MLR. |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:42 PM Response to Reply #20 |
33. Not quite... |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:45 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. They cannot increase the cost of the plan to meet the threshold. The OPM dictates |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:54 PM Original message |
Ok. I am not sure I followed that. |
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Parker CA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
22. K&R. Some people just won't be happy regardless of what it really means. Thanks for the info. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:52 PM Response to Original message |
40. They will simply cut benefits rather than pay the tax. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Benefits have a minimum standard as set forth by the OPM and will be administered |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:55 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Those minimum standards fall FAR BELOW the plans in question, and you know it. |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:57 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. You're a complete hypocrite then. Do you honestly believe the PO or Single Payer |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:00 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. Um, Physician? Heal thyself. This is supposed to be a "let the market decide!" approach, |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. You obviously can't read, or are dodging the question. I'm not complaining, but you on the other han |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:05 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Why wouldn't they under a PO system? n/t |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:07 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Because they wouldn't remain competitive. The PO still dictates an MLR of 85% |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:21 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Sorry but I lost you there. |
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jpak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:46 PM Response to Reply #52 |
63. ! |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:56 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. are the $8,500 plans near that minimum standard? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:57 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. Would they be with Single Payer or a Public Option? Be honest now... |
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Realityhack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #47 |
53. Only sort of. |
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Hello_Kitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:29 PM Response to Reply #47 |
71. Easily with single payer. |
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juajen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:53 PM Response to Original message |
42. Thank you for posting this. This is good information |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 02:59 PM Response to Original message |
48. I don't think anyone misunderstood that this was a tax on health |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:01 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. wow, your first sentence is completely wrong. It's a tax on the Insurance Company. |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:34 PM Response to Reply #50 |
58. Tell that to Obama and Nancy Pelosi, the Unions |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:42 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. One word: politics. |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:15 PM Response to Original message |
56. Its purpose is to eliminate benefits and shift costs |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:42 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. That's how I see it, and no one has convinced me otherwise. |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:46 PM Response to Reply #56 |
64. Yes, it is a sales tax on people's health care benefits n/t |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:57 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. Dumb. A sales tax is charged to the buyer. This tax is on the Insurance Company. |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:14 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. It is on the buyers policy. And the cost will be passed on to |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:31 PM Response to Reply #70 |
72. As has been covered, the cost can't be passed on due to the 85% MLR. |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. That doesn't answer the question I asked in the example |
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ddeclue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 03:44 PM Response to Original message |
62. It's just union breaking..that's all it is. |
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Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:08 PM Response to Original message |
68. Berni, c'mon. You're smarter than this ..... unless yur intent is to deceive |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:31 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. How will it be passed on with an OPM enforced MLR of 85%? Can you explain that? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. *crickets* guess not. |
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Xithras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 06:57 PM Response to Reply #73 |
81. Because it's an EXCISE tax. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
69. Smarter people than me have said it's going to affect those with good |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:33 PM Response to Reply #69 |
74. Did their case discuss the details of the bill? Plenty of smart people here post Breitbart links too |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 05:01 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Many such people understand health policy and economics |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 06:53 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. Who are "they"? |
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uponit7771 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
76. *****THANK YOU*****!!! Most who are complaining have even read the damn thing!!! |
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Xithras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 06:58 PM Response to Reply #76 |
82. And apparently most of its supporters haven't either. |
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senseandsensibility (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 07:35 PM Response to Reply #82 |
85. Thanks |
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arcadian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 05:09 PM Response to Original message |
79. unrec |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 07:33 PM Response to Original message |
84. Faith-based defence of the Senate bill |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-07-10 09:52 PM Response to Original message |
88. Thanks for posting, but there is a phrase I don't understand, what are "excessive benefits?" nt |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-08-10 01:44 AM Response to Original message |
89. The industry lawyers will run all over you. YOU WILL PAY. nt |
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