They Won! Repost - They're Winning - Private insurance companies push for 'individual mandate'

[slipslidingaway]

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/11

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/07/business/fi-healthcare7

As momentum gains for reforms, insurers hope to turn it to their advantage by supporting a proposal that everyone buy coverage. It would be a boost for the industry, which has seen enrollment decline.

June 07, 2009|Lisa Girion

...But this time, it turns out, the health insurance industry has good reason to support at least some change: It needs it. Private health insurance faces a bleak future if the proposal they champion most vigorously -- a requirement that everyone buy medical coverage -- is not adopted.

...Insurers do not embrace all of the healthcare restructuring proposals. But they are fighting hard for a purchase requirement, sweetened with taxpayer-funded subsidies for customers who can't afford to buy it on their own, and enforced with fines.


...The industry's real trouble begins in 2011, when 79 million baby boomers begin turning 65. Health insurers stand to lose a huge slice of their commercially insured enrollment (estimated at 162 million to 172 million people) over the next two decades to Medicare, the government-funded health insurance program for seniors..."

[chimpymustgo]

1. Thanks for posting. Perhaps the blind will begin to see (and put down the pom poms).

[slipslidingaway]

13. Doubtful... and you're welcome. n/t

[thotzRthingz]

16. sad to say... fat chance of that happening (especially since DEMs are popping the corks on their

champagne bottles, as the apathetic voters resign themselves to their just rewards). But, it didn't have to be this way (and it still doesn't have to be this way, if AMERICA would stand-up and NOT take "no" for an answer).

<...sigh...>

[kenfrequed]

85. They won't be popping corks for long

This bill is a pile. It will be regretted for a long time.

[laughingliberal]

2. This is the exact reason reform won't sit on the shelf for years to come if this bill is killed

The industry needs it more than we do. They can only raise rates so high on their declining customer base until they have priced everyone out of the market, thereby, committing suicide. The threat of 10 or 15 years more with no one addressing reform if this bill is killed is bunk. The insurance industry would restart the drumbeat for reform, I guarantee it, within 2 years. They can't survive without it. We should have called their bluff.

[slipslidingaway]

15. Exactly!!! This was the perfect opportunity, instead we helped the ...

For Profit companies.

:cry:

[laughingliberal]

24. yep nt

[kenfrequed]

84. Sad but true

The question is What can we do about it.

[slipslidingaway]

94. Wish I had an answer, but I feel at this point it is too late to do ...

very much.

:(

[Uncle Joe]

3. The last paragraph sums up

"health" insurance corporations' priorities and it damn sure isn't health care.

"Health insurers don't see a public plan "as the nose of the camel under the tent; they see it as the front half of the camel under the tent," said Robert Laszewski, a former insurance company executive and industry consultant.

"They are interested in 45 million new customers," he said, "but the first thing in everybody's mind is preserving their right to do business in a way that can be profitable and meet shareholder needs."

Thanks for the thread, slipslidingaway.

[slipslidingaway]

17. Yes it does, you're welcome and thank you :) n/t

[brentspeak]

4. Post this in GD-P, and they'll be hundred paid operatives un-rec'ing it

Blackberry alert: "Someone is posting the truth; unrec as soon as possible!"

[MNDemNY]

7. They're here! see post 5

:P

[slipslidingaway]

20. True, not much sense posting in that forum anymore :) n/t

[ProSense]

5. Funny, how that seems to run counter to

this.

[MNDemNY]

9. Only inconsiderate people post blind links.

Why on earth should anyone here trust your blind link? Are you spreading viruses??

[Starbucks Anarchist]

28. Only paranoid nutjobs think everybody is out to get them.

[MNDemNY]

45. Only fools trust anonymous posters.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

48. Anonymous? You reply to her all the time.

Unless you meant the link was "anonymous," in which case the word you're looking for is "hotlink."

English must be your second language after endless whining.

:rofl:

[MNDemNY]

50. You know who she is? I do not.

That is foolish.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

53. Really, you don't know her?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8750208&mesg_id=8750216

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8750159&mesg_id=8750164

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=56731&mesg_id=56743

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=28913&mesg_id=28935

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8714327&mesg_id=8714419

:rofl:

[MNDemNY]

55. No, we've never met.

Have you met her? Or are you of the ilk who only interact online, so you would , of course , say yes. But news flash here: there is a world outside of your computer!Dead Clown for you:+ :*

[Starbucks Anarchist]

58. Now you're taking the literal definition so you don't look foolish?

So by your logic, you wouldn't click on anything on the internet because you likely never met the person involved. :eyes:

Or are you of the ilk who only interact online, so you would , of course , say yes. But news flash here: there is a world outside of your computer!Dead Clown for you

Inredibly ironic coming from you. Any mention of Obama on this site and you're on it like a rabid dog. :rofl:

[MNDemNY]

59. Anyone who clicks a blind link from an unknown source is a fool.

"Imaginary friends " do not count.:o

[MNDemNY]

60. The 'Literal definition" as opposed to, what, the definition in your head??

:crazy: :+ :+ double dead clown for you!:rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

63. It took you an hour and a half to come up with that?

:rofl:

This subthread proved you can't stay consistent with your own logic, and now we find out that your humor is lame and surprisingly time-consuming.

:rofl:

And because you're especially dense, I'm laughing at you, not with you.

[MNDemNY]

65. Some people have real work to do , and can't play on the computer all day.

:rofl: You should get out of your moms basement sometime.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

67. Actually, I'm a gravedigger.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=204477

[kenfrequed]

83. And...

The two of you managed to hijack a thread about healthcare and the problems with the bill being rammed through with a bunch of pointless prattle about a web link.

Good job!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

86. Sorry to bother you, poster I've never heard of before!

:rofl:

[JackRiddler]

62. What's blind about it? Doesn't your browser have a status line or URL pop-up feature?

[rhett o rick]

78. Or right click on the link and check properties. nt

[rhett o rick]

77. First of all you can see what the address of the link is by checking properties.

And if you think only fools would open the link, why bother to mention it. You dont have to open it. Let the "fools" open it. But instead of warning possible fools, you choose to call the poster "inconsiderate". Makes me wonder about your intentions.

BTW what's a "blind link"? Excuse my ignorance.

[L0oniX]

88. Shhhh ..."checking properties" is a secret for 3L33t H@x0rZ.

[rhett o rick]

90. Why am I always out of the loop? On second thought, dont answer that. nt

[RC]

21. It's a link to another DU thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=110792&mesg_id=110792

There are several ways to figure that out.
Either put you mouse pointer over it and read the link at the bottom or right click on it and select Properties.

[MNDemNY]

23. Like I said, only an inconsiderate poster would do that.

[slipslidingaway]

27. I agree, it is annoying. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

26. They won, No negotiating for Medicare drug prices as the boomers retire ...

tax payer subsidies to pay for policies, not even a weak public option, individual mandates enforced by the Federal government while insurance company "regulations" will be enforced by individual states.

And did you happen to see the ads they ran in favor of health care reform before the votes, while the majority of people were forming their opinions, signing petitions and calling their reps?

The amounts mentioned in that link are pennies in comparison to the campaign contributions received by the legislators who moved these bills along and the money they spent on ads, besides they cannot make it look like they won.

[Edweird]

39. They are making sure it's bulletproof before it passes (and the check clears)

If there is a constitutional issue, they need to clear it up before the law is passed, otherwise all that lobbying payola was for naught. It's actually a smart strategy.

[yurbud]

70. that's to make sure it goes their way, like all the political contributions.

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. This investment is the best misdirection by the insurance companies that I've ever seen

Spend a billion dollars to make a trillion?

[Bluebear]

87. Right on cue

[WillyT]

6. Big K & R !!!

:kick:

[slipslidingaway]

29. Thank you! n/t

[Jkid]

8. This is corporate welfare. Plain and simple.

[MNDemNY]

12. What do you expect from a corporatist administration??

[slipslidingaway]

30. It sure is, Republicans could not have put this over on the Dems. n/t

[county worker]

10. I hate hearing that this bill will give insurance coverage to the uninsured.

So will a gun to their heads.

[slipslidingaway]

31. Yes, a gun to everyone's head :( n/t

[Skidmore]

11. Between the industry and the naysayers, we Boomers can't be culled from

the herd fast enough. Pardon me, while I just go lay down and die.

[MNDemNY]

14. You don't need to die, just STFU.

;-)

[slipslidingaway]

32. True, the boomers play such a large role because of their numbers...

and IMHO there is no way we can take money from Medicare to pay for this bill as the numbers of enrollees swell in the next twenty years. As Obama leaves office after his second term the shit really starts to hit the fan with not only HC costs, but the SS Trust Fund needing to be repaid.

[flyarm]

18. K&R ..any minute the troops will be here telling you how f'ed up your post is ..

and the attack dogs will ridicule you..and then tell everyone here how great the economy is and how good pom poms feel in your hands..

They will tell us all to wait to see how good it will all get..to keep your powder dry ..and will tell us all how nice ponies are!!..and don't forget that fucking great chess game is that we should all be happy to play!!

but I digress!!

Thanks for the thread ..great post!! Great info!! I will pass on to those who no longer drink the kool aide!!

[slipslidingaway]

33. Thanks flyarm, hope you had a good trip ...

never got back to that other issue.

[flyarm]

40. :)..thanks..

[Juche]

19. Of course they've seen enrollment decline

They jack up their rates 10-30% a year.

They don't want the competition from a public option, but they don't want the public to be free to not buy their product either. And this was the 'free market' solution to the health care crisis. Its absurd how 1984 our society has become, the free market solution involves a captive market and no competition.

Either way, yeah. They jack up their rates until people are forced to give up coverage. Then they legislate mandates to make people buy their overpriced, unreliable products.

Our nation is going down the tubes.

[MNDemNY]

22. Nonsense this is historic reform, we will all be happy , later.

This is real change we can believe in, only haters are against it. It's the best we could "hope" for, it will help millions!!! The insurance industry will look out for our needs, they will play fair and only take a minimum of profit. You know they only care about what is best for the nation!WE must keep our corporations strong, what do you think we are, a bunch of commies?? This will do to health care what NAFTA has done to our blue color workers, nothing but good things!!!. Next stop: let's do away with this whole "public education" crap, Corporate America can do a much better job.

[girl gone mad]

35. Oh crap..

the brainwashing is working.

;)

[fascisthunter]

76. a a historical rip-off

I can't believe any of you cheerleading for this piece of crap. Good bye...

[thotzRthingz]

25. re: "Of course they've seen enrollment decline" ... precisely, and it isn't due to

"boomers" (I can't tell you how many I've spoken with, and debated with, about their "supplementals"). The FOR-PROFITs aren't losing all that much due to "boomers" ... and they're gonna make a killing (with NO real cost-containments)... if the current "abortion of a bill" (pick any version) gets signed into law.

Wendell Potter told us this would happen... and he was dead right again (but oh so few listened). <...big sigh...>

[L0oniX]

89. "few listened" ...typical of the US government and people. We don't need no stinking wisdom!

Even these guys know better...



American Idiot

[slipslidingaway]

34. It sure is and I know who to blame for this screwup. n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

92. .

.

[Odin2005]

36. The Mandate is Fascist Economics.

[slipslidingaway]

37. And most of our Party just plays follow the leader :((( n/t

[Edweird]

38. Kick for the truth.

[slipslidingaway]

41. :) thanks n/t

[Kablooie]

42. It's nice to hear that somebody won. I'm so tired of hearing that everyone lost.

Who won ? oh?

Well hell! They should have lost!

[slipslidingaway]

46. :))) surely I'm not the only one that needs to laugh at this insurance

bailout - thanks.

;-)

[Jamastiene]

43. K&R

[Caretha]

44. This is the reason HCF legislation is happening now

Even if the Dem's hadn't won in the 2008 & 2010 elections...this would be part of the political agenda regardless. We always naively think that we're driving the bus or "the times" are, and that the power brokers have no idea what is going on....oh please, they get it, they just don't want you to be able to figure it out.

[slipslidingaway]

47. The people were making this part of the agenda as well, but yes even ...

the insurance companies spoke of this before Obama took office.

[highplainsdem]

49. K&R

[leftstreet]

51. K&R

[amborin]

52. K&R

[Faryn Balyncd]

54. K&R...Thanks for the great post..... But now is the time to FIGHT LIKE HELL. . . . : :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7402961

[slipslidingaway]

56. Thanks for the additional recs :) n/t

[lonestarnot]

57. K and fucking R!

[kenny blankenship]

61. Yes They Can!

And average people get fed into the sausage grinder to keep the fat cats fat.

[slipslidingaway]

74. Looks like Kucinich was right about the public option back in September. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

64. Oh come on now! Everyone knows that individual mandates

to a predatory cartel/monopoly industry within an employer based system devoid of individual choice is good for the people.

Just as anyone with sense knows that price controls are for commies and making the cartel too big to fail will lead to guaranteed access to health care for all people.




:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[slipslidingaway]

73. What a mess! :( n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

66. Keeping this kicked

:kick:

[slipslidingaway]

75. Thank you! n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

79. And again

See--easy.

[slipslidingaway]

81. :) n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

91. .

.

[slipslidingaway]

93. :) n/t :)

[area51]

68. k&r (n/t)

[yurbud]

69. wow--I hadn't thought of that about the baby boomers. If Obama did NOTHING

insurance companies might have died a natural death.

Another example of Democrats dragging the vampire out of the sunlight and into the shade instead of driving a stake in his heart.

[slipslidingaway]

72. Neither did I until I read the article back in the summer, boomers need to

be considered in all these decisions.

That is another reason this deal with PhRma is so bad - during the campaign and in the Obama/Biden HC plan it states that they will allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices saving almost 30 billion per year. Instead the WH negotiated with PhRma a 10 year deal for 80 billion.

Boomers will be using a lot of drugs and Medicare needs to be able to negotiate prices.

And as Obama leaves office after his second term, the 2.4 trillion dollar SS Trust Fund will also need to start being repaid from the general budget.

We really are going to need the most cost effective and efficient HC system in the years ahead, subsidies to pay for private insurance is not that system.

:(

[freddie mertz]

80. K & R. I made it!

[slipslidingaway]

82. Thanks, we really need to think about the boomers effect on ...

a variety of issues with this HC bill. Such as how can savings from Medicare be used to subsidize this bill when enrollment increases from 46 million to 79 million over the next twenty years - I think someone might need to find a rabbit for this trick.

:)