Hundreds of cars torched in France at New Year

[JonQ]

PARIS (Reuters) - Youths burned 1,137 cars across France overnight as New Year's Eve celebrations once again turned violent, the French Interior Ministry said on Friday.

Car burnings are regular occurrences in poor suburbs that ring France's big cities, but the arson is especially prevalent during New Year's Eve revelry.

The number of vehicles torched was only 10 short of the record 1,147 burned this time last year, even though the Interior Ministry mobilized 45,000 police during the night -- 10,000 more than 12 months ago.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60010D20100101



Why do people do this? What's the point and why aren't there greater efforts to stop it?

[brodyboy]

1. To paraphrase the words in a great song

"Their hearts are a sad affair. There's much disillusion there." But THEY don't feel they can dream.

[mdmc]

15. riot = the unbeatable high

tomorrow your homeless, tonight its a BLAST! - the dead kennedys

[uppityperson]

38. Thanks mods, that was fast

[Synicus Maximus]

2. Oh, those wacky French.

[timeforpeace]

28. "Youths"? Just "youths"? Nothing else that defines them, any commonalities among them?Just "youths"?

[stray cat]

3. If they claimed to be on strike would we applaud it?

[JackRiddler]

5. No. What are you saying?

[CTyankee]

4. I have good friends who spent New Years in Paris. I was envious but now I wonder...

nt

[GoneOffShore]

34. Spent the last 6 New Year's in Paris - If you're in the center it's fine.

Strasbourg, not so much.

[CTyankee]

49. Do you have friends there or do you just go over and get a hotel room?

And why New Year's? I am wondering what I have been missing...

[GoneOffShore]

59. We rent apartments and visit our friends

Haven't stayed in a hotel - except for single nights - for over ten years. It's cheaper to rent apartments.

New Years Eve in Paris is great! Fireworks by the Eiffel Tower, people on all the bridges over the Seine carrying bottles of Champagne and wishing everyone "Bon Année!" And New Years Day there's a parade in Montmarte.

[Vidar]

6. They're doing something right. Their conservatives are to the left of our liberals.

[proteus_lives]

12. So, arson, destruction of property and criminal behavior is a good thing?

So you're drenching your neighbor's cars as we speak, yes?

[JonQ]

23. Apparently

destroying others property for fun is a progressive idea now. Who knew?

Unless the situation were reversed (we burn lots of cars, the french do not) in which case it would be ignorant rightwing barbarism and proof of our national inferiority.

[bobbolink]

26. Destruction Of The Property of POOR people.

'Twas ever thus.....

:nuke:

[JonQ]

30. Yeah gotta love an angry mob

sticking it to the man (tm) by mostly torching their own stuff and killing their neighbors. That'll show 'em!

[bobbolink]

31. We poor people are easy targets.

And that includes by "progressives".

Proof of that abounds at DU.

[MellowDem]

51. It is poor people who torch the cars...

by and large. But go ahead and attack progressives and DU as being enemies of the poor, for all that is worth. As for those poor progressives, I guess they are enemies of themselves? One thing is for sure, the poor are, in many ways unfortunately, their own worst enemies. Ethnic, racial, religous, class and social divisions have seen to that. Your post is just one more example of it.

[bobbolink]

62. That is the myth.

Sometimes myths are true.

BUt often, it is just a convenient way to blame the victims.

Try looking at the stats.... you will find that what I'm saying is correct, even if the truth makes you squirm.

For example.... ever heard of muddle-class young males who love to go "trolling" for homeless people to beat and kill?

[SanddancerUSA]

7. It's not that unusual.

I have a French friend who has lost two cars in this manner.

[JonQ]

24. That's insane

I can't imagine living in a place where this is a common occurrence.

[uppityperson]

40. heh, 2nd ts'd one in this thread

[Cetacea]

8. Did they try to ban smoking there?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

10. Displaced class consciousness n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Because they would get their asses kicked and most likely shot

During the Rodney King riots some small merchants stood their ground and defended their places of business quite successfully. It wasn't just Koreans doing it. Maybe they could have shot less people, but it worked, and they were not looted.

Lesson: in the US you don't fuck with someones property with impunity.

If there were riots like those held annually in Paris, car owners who could not get their cars off the streets would defend their property most likely with firearms. Rioters would be shot until they left the area. Of course the police chief and politicians would deplore it and the street cops would look the other way.

What amazes me is the everyone knows there will be riots and looting and yet they leave their cars on the street rather than getting them out of the area.

[mainer]

18. Where would they park, if not on the street where they live?

Would you drive it out to the country and leave it there?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Something like that

The Paris riots are pretty well localized. Park it outside of those areas and take the Metro back.

[Posteritatis]

16. Because it involves getting up and doing something instead of talking on the intarwebz. (nt)

[Hatalles]

21. They do. See LA or Boston -- when the Lakers and Sox won championships.

[HughMoran]

29. I was there in Boston

It wasn't at all interesting - and I drove right through the revelers near Fenway Park. Students lit a few fires and a girl died from a rubber bullet one year, but it was nothing like Paris - not even close.

[JonQ]

25. Why should we?

What does this accomplish?

[hfojvt]

32. perhaps because we on the left also have cars

and if somebody torched mine I'd stomp them with my own jackboots.

[JonQ]

33. That's what jackboots are good for

[hfojvt]

36. I don't really have jackboots

"A jackboot is a combat boot rising to at least mid-calf, with no laces, typically a leather sole with hobnails, and heel irons.<1><2> The term probably originates from association with the word jack or jerkin, as a common garment worn by the peasantry.<3>"
wiki

but I sorta figured that steel-toed workboots would do in a pinch.

[flvegan]

13. Why? Because they're idiots.

Same reason moronic sports fans riot after their team wins the big game.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. So disappointing.

Only ten short of the record.

[mainer]

17. Because people hate those who have what they don't have

This is why the occasional calls for "the revolution" I see here on DU make me shudder. This is what you'd see, folks. Cars, houses, and businesses torched by those who resent the "haves."

It's not pretty in France, and it wouldn't be pretty here.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. It would be worse here if it happen...rioters/lloters would be shot by private citizens

and would be cheered

[JonQ]

27. See I would argue that that is not worse

rioters out for blood should be shot, by whoever is handy. There are few human activities more destructive, immoral and frankly evil than an uncontrolled mob.

[Greyhound]

37. SPoken like the he-man tough guys that hid in their basements during the LA riots.

You guys are so amusing...
:rofl:

[JonQ]

39. I'm sure your compassion will shield you

should you ever be in their path. If there's one thing mobs respond to more than violence it's a well thought out discussion on the merits of peace and brotherly love.

[Greyhound]

43. You tell 'em tough guy.

Why is it that every time I hear some loudmouth spouting off with some crap like this, it comes out of Texas?

Please secede.

[MellowDem]

52. Ah, so you are a bigot.

Please, tell us more about your overgeneralizatons of a whole state and people. We would LOVE to hear it!

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

50. And shooting by 'whoever is handy' isn't also an 'uncontrolled mob'?

I have no desire to see any of my property destroyed by rioters; but I'd prefer it to risking being shot by indignant bystanders.

Moreover, I do not consider that vandalism deserves the death penalty. Especially not without a trial.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

56. Good thing that vigilantes, especially those who shoot first, have never ever injured or killed an

innocent person.

Why do you think there's a criminal justice system?

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

60. That's why crime is so much higher in France than anywhere else - Oh wait..

I have just looked up the most recent (2008) crime statistics for the USA, UK and France.

For overall crime rates, including petty and serious crimes, I have to admit that we 'win':

Crime rates per 1000 people:

UK: 85.55

USA: 80.66

France: 62.18


For 'intentional homicide' rates, you 'win':

Intentional homicide rates per 100,000:

USA: 5.4

UK 2.03

France: 1.59


So it seems that we commit more crimes overall (or perhaps label more things as crimes?) but you kill lots more people. In both comparisons, France comes a very 'poor' third.


You cannot assume that a particular news report about crime in a given country means that lawlessness reigns supreme in that country.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Libertas1776]

22. That's called pent up anger

from living your whole life in a slum. Sure, it was probably sparked off by "revelry" but eventually devolved into a whole another animal. It's the same reason they torched cars and burned downed buildings in the inner cities on our side of the pond. This stuff is more complex than a bunch of hooligans going apeshit after some sports victory like they so often do. This is the symptom of a greater sickness of a society; a segment of the population that is angry over poverty, discrimination, police brutality, you name it.

[hfojvt]

35. why should they have that in France

when they have a generous social safety net and nationalized health care? The poverty, discrimination, police brutality, etc., are supposed to be much less there than in the US which has the worst of everything damn us all.

[Libertas1776]

42. We are talking about

mostly immigrants, and children of immigrants from the Middle East who make up the population of these crowded housing projects on the outskirts of the major cities. The "generous" safety nets and national health care are not as "first class" as they are for its Francophone users nor are they a balm for the burn of unemployment and other things like that. These places are veritable powder kegs, as those riots a few years ago showed us.

[Edweird]

41. Considering how often this happens, I have to assume new car sales are quite brisk.

I think that would be more entertaining than the 'cash for clunkers' deal, as long as nobody got hurt and the insurance companies weren't allowed to weasel out of it....

[JonQ]

44. If this were a regular occurance

then insurance rates would skyrocket. Also those being harmed are mostly those living in these marginal areas (ie ghettos), so the poor.

[Edweird]

57. Hm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_labour_protests_in_France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_civil_unrest_in_France

And now this one.

It seems like a lot to me, but I'm not French.

[JackRiddler]

45. This thread affords a great opportunity for insecure handwringing from the self-perceived "haves"

First of all, who gives these numbers? Oh, yeah. But anyway. This is hardly the place for skepticism about official statistics.

So, what have we here then?

A bunch of socially excluded, long-ago lost youth engage in riots, fuck up cars.

That's pretty fucked up!

I want to thank some of you for the responses associating these rampages of the dumb-among-the-frustrated with strikes, revolutions, France as such, socialism, European moral relativism with regard to the sacred institution of property, etc. I'm having a good laugh.

Sadly these riots are the kind of thing that happens when the dispossessed aren't organized enough to engage in strikes and the like, and the most violent among them seek destructive forms of release. They have nothing to do with strikes or any kind of ideology.

Anyway, I'm waiting for someone to finally blame it on rock and roll. Or the loss of belief in God with a capital G. Or how about Islam? Is there a Qaeda connection?

[Stevenmarc]

46. That's one way to boost the French auto industry

[lonestarnot]

47. Cutting air pollution on their terms.

[JonQ]

48. By setting cars on fire

releasing pollutants, and forcing people to buy new cars (which means building more cars, which means more pollution)?

If that's their solution to air pollution it's pretty idiotic.

[LeftishBrit]

53. It is hardly uncommon for New Year celebrations to turn violent

One example taken at random from a British local paper:

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:VOWaBj3EVaEJ:www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2

I don't know what can be done about it, that would at the same time be accepted by most people (e.g. a New Years Eve curfew might work, but would be seen, probably rightly, as against civil liberties). But France is hardly unique in this respect - though, as elsewhere, people who feel desperate, or who feel excluded by the wider community, are more likely to boil over on such occasions.