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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:10 PM
Original message
WH hopes a health care victory will offset setbacks on financial regulation and climate change
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 03:31 PM by seafan
Man, oh man, are we in deep trouble.




WSJ, December 21, 2009:


WASHINGTON -- Slumping in the polls and struggling to pass climate and financial legislation, President Barack Obama and Democratic leaders are counting on an historic health care victory to buoy their electoral prospects in 2010.

.....

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel has been telling Democrats a win on the health issue will reverse the slide in public opinion, just as passage of another controversial proposal, the North American Free Trade Agreement, lifted President Bill Clinton in the polls.




Let's see... Clinton signed NAFTA into law on December 8, 1993, and it took effect January 1, 1994.


You cannot mean, Mr. Emanuel, the "poll lift" that led to Democrats losing control of the House in November of 1994, eleven months after your boss signed NAFTA? That one?




The apparent success by Senate Democrats this weekend in securing the necessary votes to pass a sweeping overhaul of health care before Christmas will offset setbacks on climate change and financial industry regulation, Democrats say.

"The reality, I think, will trump poll numbers in the dead of winter as this debate is going on," White House senior adviser David Axelrod said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."

"We're governing through difficult times," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I think we're going to be in a better place" when the midterm elections arrive.

.....





These people are living in a dream world of their own making if they are depending on this farce of *historical health care reform* to save their behinds on every other issue that they have accomplished little. I guess they hope people won't notice all of that over the din of the bells and party whistles generously donated by Big Insurance and Big PhRMA.



Last week's Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll not only showed a substantial majority opposed to the plan, but for the first time, it showed a plurality favoring the status quo over passage.




Hello, IS ANYONE HOME??




Mr. Obama is taking heat from the left and the right on health. The president's quest for a 60th vote for the Senate health bill has drawn criticism from liberal Democrats who say the White House has capitulated to conservatives in the party.
"We need the president to stand up for the values our party shares. We must stop letting the tail wag the dog of this debate," Rep. Anthony Weiner (D., N.Y.) said in a post on his Web site.

The Democratic leadership is particularly relying on a health victory as other domestic priorities struggle. The failure of the United Nations climate summit to reach a binding accord could cripple Mr. Obama's chances of securing legislation to limit greenhouse-gas emissions, even after many House Democrats took a politically painful vote for legislation to cap carbon emissions.

Mr. Obama's standing with American voters has fallen more dramatically in his first year than any recent president, in part because he was so popular at the outset, but also because voters perceive he has not accomplished much, said Democratic pollster Peter Hart.

His 47% approval rating is just the start of his problems, pollsters say. The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll also found the first real evidence that Mr. Obama's personal bond with Americans -- his likability -- has been battered by high unemployment, Democratic infighting and months of bickering over health care, Just 29% of Americans now say they feel "very positive" about the president, down from 36% in October and 47% in February.

.....

In an interview Friday, Mr. Emanuel expressed little concern for the president's standing with the Democratic base. Mr. Emanuel said the liberal wing of the party is already coming back to the fold.
For instance, liberals such as Mr. Weiner now say they will work to make the bill more like the House version in House-Senate negotiations, rather than implore the Senate to kill the bill.

Mr. Emanuel argued that this generation of liberal political figures won't repeat their predecessors' mistakes in not reaching deals on health care.

.....





THE 1992 CAMPAIGN; Transcript of 2nd TV Debate Between Bush, Clinton and Perot, October 16, 1992


Q: Yes, I'd like to direct my question to Mr. Perot. What will you do as President to open foreign markets to fair competition from American business, and to stop unfair competition here at home from foreign countries so that we can bring jobs back to the United States.

PEROT: That's right at the top of my agenda. We've shipped millions of jobs overseas and we have a strange situation because we have a process in Washington where after you've served for a while you cash in and become a foreign lobbyist, make $30,000 a month; then take a leave, work on Presidential campaigns, make sure you got good contacts, and then go back out. Now if you just want to get down to brass tacks, the first thing you ought to do is get all these folks who've got these one-way trade agreements that we've negotiated over the years and say, "Fellows, we'll take the same deal we gave you." And they'll gridlock right at that point because, for example, we've got international competitors who simply could not unload their cars off the ships if they had to comply -- you see, if it was a two-way street -- just couldn't do it. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas.

To those of you in the audience who are business people, pretty simple: If you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor, hire young -- let's assume you've been in business for a long time and you've got a mature work force -- pay a dollar an hour for your labor, have no health care -- that's the most expensive single element in making a car -- have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south.

So we -- if the people send me to Washington the first thing I'll do is study that 2,000-page agreement and make sure it's a two-way street. One last part here -- I decided i was dumb and didn't understand it so I called the Who's Who of the folks who've been around it and I said, "Why won't everybody go South?" They say, "It'd be disruptive." I said, "For how long?" I finally got them up from 12 to 15 years. And I said, "well, how does it stop being disruptive?" And that is when their jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it's leveled again. But in the meantime, you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals. We've got to cut it out.








.....

Emanuel began his political career as a senior adviser and chief fundraiser for the successful 1989 Chicago mayoral campaign of Richard M. Daley to seize back City Hall from reformists who had challenged the corrupt political machine of this father, Richard J. Daley. Emanuel later became a senior adviser to Bill Clinton at the White House from 1993 to 1998, serving as Assistant to the President for Political Affairs and then Senior Advisor to the President for Policy and Strategy, and was credited with playing a major role in shifting the Clinton administration's foreign and domestic policy agenda to the right. Emanuel was the single most important official involved in pushing through the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the bill ending Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), and Clinton's draconian crime bill, among other legislation.

.....

Alternet, "Is Obama Screwing His Base with Rahm Emanuel Selection?" ---November 7, 2008





No, Mr. Emanuel, it appears that the crucial, repeated mistake is your position at the ear of another president.




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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. guess again
strike three - you SUCK
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the man who listens to him?
Rahm Emanuel has been adulating Republicans too long; claiming a victory doesn't actually make it one.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Empowering every two bit corrupt extortionist in the Senate was quite the chess move
:rofl:
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
A good read!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Notice Emanuel refers to liberals coming back to the fold and his evidence is
legislators who are prepared to support it. Never mind those pesky liberal voters. He is such an elitist asshole. And I guess I'm behind but I did not know he was involved in pushing NAFTA, welfare reform, and the crime bill. We are so screwed.

Unbelievable to look back at Perot's words in the campaign in light of the situation today. Guess we are well on our way to average wages of $6 in what factories we have left.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Dear Rahm--Healthcare may be a "victory" to YOU...
...but to many in the base--it's a disgrace.

How in the world can he suggest that a sickening corporate-giveaway, non-reformist, joke-of-a-bill is
so incredibly wonderful--that it's brilliance will offset failures in climate change and financial
regulation?

Does he understand how angry we are? Does he understand that people like me, who trudged in a blinding
snowstorm to knock on doors, for Obama--do not give a shit anymore?

The healthcare bill did one thing for me--it made me realize that it doesn't matter who wins in these
elections. The corporations will always win.

It doesn't matter if I vote. The corporations who bribe our politicians with campaign contributions
will win the day. Both parties are in on the fix, so why bother?

The healthcare bill was the catalyst that made me throw up my hands and refuse to EVER believe in
any politician again. If that's a victory to Rahm, well then I guess he's just insane or so
disinterested in the fallout from this--that he doesn't even bother to acknowledge it.

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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Pres Obama played for a complete fool by these Wall St Hucksters! Sad...
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. He's not being played for a fool
he's in on the game.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. yep
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. +1 nt
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. reverse
Gosh: I thought the White House was hoping that mediocre (at best) progress on financial regulation and climate change would offset the humiliating defeat of meaningful healthcare reform.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. +1
hehe
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Me too. //nt
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Christ. What the heck are they thinking??

Seriously, I would really, REALLY like to know what goes through their heads.

The behavior seems to be irrational and almost self-destructive. (Unless they know something that we don't.)
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thomhartmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. What they know that we don't is that the power of corporations and rich individuals is so great now
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 02:59 PM by thomhartmann
in the USA that it can no longer be resisted by ordinary (or even extraordinary) political means once in office, with the singular exception of the rare populist from a small district or state (Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Peter DiFazio). This is the result of a series of Supreme Court decisions that have equated corporations with people, and money with speech, both concepts anathema to the founders (see my book "Unequal Protection" - not a plug, just that it's all there and not in most other places). UNTIL AND UNLESS we do something about Corporate Personhood and changing the laws with regard to bribery (aka "lobbying" and "campaign contributions"), and ban the revolving door in WDC, we'll continue to slide into a Mussolini-style authoritarian state run largely both by and for the benefit of major corporations.

Ironically, one of the few guys who gets this in the Senate and is willing to say it out loud is John McCain. (God, it hurt to say that.) And, of course, this is Cause One for Bernie Sanders.

But Rahm and Timmy and Summers and the whole rotten bunch around Obama sold out long ago to the highest corporate bidders. And Obama is trying to pull a Third Way "Tony Blair" - which will probably work out about the same as it did for Blair. <sigh>

That's what they know that we don't. They know how incredibly, massively, horses-head-in-your-bed powerful the forces are who really own and thus run this country. And they know that if they take on those forces, they will be totally politically crushed.

This is why DU and other sites are the Last Best Hope for democracy in America. Movement Politics brought us every progressive change in this country's history - from the Revolutionary war to Civil Rights. Only Movement Politics will bring about the changes necessary to get money out of government.

Thom
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. OMG Thom, it really IS you.
I am just... speechless right now, all I can say... You have no idea how important you are and what you mean for the progressive "movement" (for lack of better terms - I know, it's not really a "movement" at this point, but maybe it will become one at some point...)

Thank god for you and people like you, you truly are "the Last Best Hope for democracy in America", and I mean it 100%. :)

You have a HUGE following on DU btw (and in other places, of course! :) ), and I happen to be a huge fan... and... I simply can't describe how special it was to "run into you" on DU just now, it almost felt like a Christmas miracle! :yourock: (And sorry for the babbling post, I'm usually more coherent, but it's the best I can do right now! :blush: :loveya: )


Much love, tons of appreciation, and Best Wishes for the New Year!

Inna


P.S. And please, please, please post more often and keep a Journal on DU!! We need you, we really do! :) :yourock:


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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Yes, Inna, there really is a ThomHartmann Cause ....
:spray: Your giddiness well deserved. He's the educator and motivator -- we're the movement (as much as I want to give up after 30 years of being Cassandra..... let the LIHOPpers fix their godammned mess.................)
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thanks, thom. Overwhelming and feels futile at this point but what else is there but to keep
sounding the alarm? Perhaps nothing I or anyone else here will change 1 thing but it is my profound goal that when it all comes down around them they can not say no one was sounding the alarm.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. You gave the real answer
The one that seems unavoidable at this point -- esp. if we choose to give our leaders some benefit of the doubt despite their actions -- the one that no one wants to talk about, that haunts our nation, which you have also written about...

"Horses-head-in-your-bed powerful" actually sounds more genteel somehow than "do they have a gun to their head?"


People fighting over the "two" parties now, under these circumstances, is beyond me.

My Christmas wish for DU and USA is a page out of your book, Thom. Very simple and very well received -- including wit da humor about "commie" or "socialist."

"No Corporate Personhood. Real Campaign Finance Reform. No Illegal Wars. Health/Education For All."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7316702

Happy New Year Thom. Thanks for everything.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. We're chock full of pols stuck in the post Reagan 1990's
These people haven't had contact with the conditions on the ground in over 15 years and they are corporate toadies to boot.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. +1 nt
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obama is a fucking moron
Mandatory healthcare purchase from the criminal syndicate known as the insurance industry with no price controls is going to save the administration? Idiots. Fools. Nincompoops.

Obama IS playing chess while everyone one is playing checkers. THAT is why he is getting his ASS KICKED playing checkers!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. They've totally fucked us on all three. Hell, they fucked all LIFE ON EARTH
as far as climate change is concerned, and all for buckets of gold in their already full pockets.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. They have medication for delusional thinking.
Unfortunately, I think this man suffers from a personality disorder.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. I don't think it's covered under the senate plan... -nt
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. Those who think Obama and Rahm actually care about winning elections, should REthink.
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 07:38 PM by Jim Sagle
Their job is to police the base and enforce corporate rule on the Democrats.

Actually, Obama is clearly already bored shitless with us, our problems and the Presidency. He's on autopilot for the next three years when he'll get a big raise from the private sector, most likely in banking.

There's isn't a goddamn thing any of us or even all of us combined could do to swerve him even one silly millimeter. And if the Democratic Party craters, so much the better for him as he'll no doubt get a bonus.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. Yes- I have said there will be a corner office waiting for him at GS
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. Nailed it!
:applause:
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TiberiusGracchus Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is what baffles me: how could Axelrod and Emmanuel ever reach such a wrong political conclusion
Love them or hate them, Axelrod and Emmanuel are both substantially smart enough to know that nothing ___ABSOLUTELY NOTHING___ can salvage an incumbent who presides over a disastrous economy.

Furthermore they should know that even the victors of previous incremental HCR battles emerged from their struggles mortally wounded (Truman) or didn't survive them at all (Lyndon Johnson and Medicare).

Furthermore they should know that the current HCR bill is so fundamentally flawed that they cannot possibly win against the same republicans who passed Medicare parts C and D and claim a superior product: Say what you will about parts C&D but Medicare Advantage and the prescription drug benefit are BELOVED by its beneficiaries and remain the highest rated medicare programs today.

So the question is how could they have come to the conclusion that extending Gitmo, expanding the war on terror to Yemen, sending 30,000 more American boys and girls into the graveyard of empires, UTTERLY FAILING to curb the excesses of wall street, and continually mishandling the economy could ever possibly be overcome by a passing healthcare reform bill.

Or worse: passing THIS healthcare reform bill.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama campaigned against NAFTA
Rahm is a real mother fucker against honest working families. He sees us as prey - we are too busy just trying to get by to fight to save what little we can for ourselves. He has been helping corporations get at middle class savings his whole life. Its all he knows.

--------------


http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/1256979/clinton_ob... /


At the Milwaukee rally, Obama portrayed Clinton as both a partisan and an establishment figure.

"Her supporting NAFTA didn't give jobs to the American people," he said. "Her supporting a bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt -- that didn't help them with the bills that were stacking up on their desk. Hollering at Republicans and engaging in petty partisan politics didn't help health care get done."

The trade issue has drawn attention from both candidates in the struggling manufacturing centers of Wisconsin and Ohio.

Clinton says Obama is distorting her record on NAFTA, which was backed by her husband when he was president.

"I was not in the Senate at the time. I did not have a vote. I find his argument to be quite tortured. I have been a vocal critic of NAFTA starting in my campaign for the Senate in 1999," Clinton said in the interview Friday.
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TiberiusGracchus Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Wasn't that when he got busted for telling the Canadians that he didn't really mean what he said?
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Yes- his objections to NAFTA were not lies, just posturing :-)
http://www.slate.com/id/2185753

I'm holding my breath until we renegotiate.

Not.


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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. They...Hope?
:rofl:

Good luck with that.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. I guess I remain stunned at how fast and how completely
Obama has turned into the nowhere man.

I somehow knew he wasn't the best thing since sliced bread during the campaign-though he promised everything with great intelligence from restoring habeas corpus to really changing the health care system. He is so smart. So charming. Such a beautiful family. A great victory for a black American to be president. I cried. McCain is a duplicitous asshole. Palin a stupid nightmare. (and for those that want to make everyone that doesn't like Obama a PUMA-I couldn't stand Hillary-I thought she was a warmonger-and then Obama makes her SOS-what a joke-I guess he agreed with her totally)

And then-first goddamn thing-RAHM. I knew it was over then. It showed his clear intentions. His clear corporate belief which is not what he was selling in the campaign.

Then-John Brennan. His national deputy national security adviser. Mr. torture is okay sometimes. Well, so much for all that pie in the sky -Obama restoring our values. It's all talk.

That was like a shot to the gut. Human rights being my top issue.

And everything downhill since then.

Gay rights. Presidential secrecy.

And then this total sell out useless charade of health care reform. He lies outright to our faces.

I have no idea who he is. But whomever he is, he most certainly has lost my vote.
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