A graph of health care spending . not pretty.

[Mari333]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a77d19db970b-popup

[Double T]

1. Sadder than sad.

The delusional US believes it has the best health care in the world; it doesn't. The insane US has the most ridiculously expensive health care in the world (and probably the Universe). The 'reform' does nothing to address the insane costs; the costs get moved around like a pea and shell game. The more things 'change', the more they look worse than the same.

[Mari333]

2. Pictures are worth a thousand words but the MSM wont show this

[Double T]

5. Hard to refute the truth.

MSM doesn't want to give up those expensive BIG PHARMA advertisements that help drive up our costs.

[Enthusiast]

26. Key nt

[Enthusiast]

25. And why is the U.S. delusional?

Because the M$M is completely controlled. We must have a free media to remain free. Reagan knew this and took the action of abolishing the Fairness Doctrine. This was the start of real corporate control.

[annabanana]

3. This graph should be on the front page of every blog & paper.

(shame on the unrecs)

Can anyone get this pic to show up in a post? It's stunning.

[Mari333]

4. The Unrec's are 'people who hate the truth'

sad, isnt it. I dont know how to make this into a pic on here.

[bfarq]

11. The unrecs are people who don't care what kind of health care we have

just as long as the Democrats ram it up the Republicans' butts.

That isn't the point. The point is to get a much better deal for the American people. I wish the Republicans shared that goal, but their actions call that into question.

However, the Republicans are right when they say this bill doesn't address the cost of health care. (From there, they go on to say everything would be just dandy if we put the lawyers out of business, which is nonsense.)

The sad truth is that the only way for us to not miss this historic opportunity to get a fundamentally better deal for Americans -- the same deal that all other developed countries get -- is to oppose this bill.

We cannot pass the Senate bill. That does absolutely noting to address these problems. It makes them worse and it guarantees that we won't get another chance to do something for at least 12 years.

But if the conference were to add elements that do address these problems, you run into Lieberman, Baucus and the others who think the status quo is dandy.

So the way forward is to stop this bill -- not to kill it permanently, but to break it into pieces that can pass the Senate under reconciliation. That might take a couple of extra months, but that's well worth the time because the current bill doesn't deliver much until after 2014.

There is a 3rd way. Bu presenting this reconciliation path as a viable alternative, that forces Lieberman and the others to back off their hard line with the current bill because a compromise on this bill is better than what they would get under reconciliation.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

19. Or the unrec's could be because it is from the racist and sexist Republican

Andrew Sullivan.

[Enthusiast]

27. To achieve their aims

it is essential that the American people don't think long or hard about this.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

13. International Health Care Spending Comparison Graph:

Mari333 :hi: if you right click on this image, then click properties... highlight and copy the address part, you can then paste it in your OP ... more people are likely to see it.

[Enthusiast]

28. And opponents of HCR

claim they are afraid reform will mess up our system.

[Goldstein1984]

6. Dramatic Illustration

Your not going to see that in the MSM when every news segment is layered between prescription drug adds.

[bfarq]

7. Here's a PDF version

That is a very powerful chart. I have updated it and created a PDF with some comments that make it easier for the average person to understand what the chart is saying. You can download this PDF here:

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/172246/Health-care-costs-pdf.html

You have to wait 15 seconds before the site will let you download.

Please email this file to everyone you know. There is nothing in the current bill that addresses this issue. This may be the only chance we have for the next 16 years to do something about this problem.

[Mari333]

8. k

[leftstreet]

9. K&R

[hootinholler]

10. Amazing graph

Look at Japan, spends less than half per capita, has highest life expectancy and everyone goes to see a DR every month.

-Hoot

[AlbertCat]

30. Amazing graph

"Look at Japan"
They also have a tradition of eating fresh food... and they bathe a lot! ( My point is lifestyles and climate and stuff like that also figure into life expectancy)

The real kicker is that the USA isn't even on the same page as...oh, Mexico.....and the rest. We are already a 3rd world country but still pretending it's the 1950's and we're on top.

[Jamastiene]

12. That ties in perfectly with part of a documentary I saw early this morning.

Unnatural Causes: Is inequality making us sick?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7334254

K&R

[Blue_In_AK]

14. That's a stunning graph

that you just can't argue with. Wow...

[SaveOurDemocracy]

15. Kick for more to see.

(chart pictured in post 13)

[Kablooie]

16. This would only make Republicans proud. See how much higher our line is!

[democracy1st]

17. K & R

[JDPriestly]

18. How much of this is due to the problem with our overvalued currency?

Here is a list of per capita incomes by country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

We are not the highest, but we are much higher than most countries on the list.

Take for instance, Switzerland. That's the country in which people pay the most for health care costs after us.

Our GDP per capita is $47,440.

Switzerland's is $43,196.

Not a huge difference, but still some difference. I agree that we are paying far too much for the results we get, but of course the current Senate bill will not improve that. In fact, it may make it worse.

[The Wizard]

20. Health care spending

will eliminate the middle class and push the vast majority into third world status, thus ensuring a permanent underclass forced to work for slave wages. That's the ultimate goal of cheap labor Republicans.
Add tort reform so it's impossible to seek justice through the courts and the fascist coup is complete.
It's nothing more than corporate feudalism.
And the media has convinced a segment of the population to take up arms against their own best interests.

[Enthusiast]

29. At least we won't be socialist!

[midnight]

21. We are a Nation without Universal Health care because we are a Nation that

has developed an economy built on death "war"!

[Jim Lane]

22. K&R for the Monday morning crowd -- a truly striking graphic (n/t)

[Solly Mack]

23. K&R

[Vinca]

24. Time to start learning Japanese.

This graph should be on the front page of every newspaper.

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. The Japanese do not have a govt-operated system. It's private non-profits.

The reason I point this out is because congress could have done much more with this concept of non-profit private companies if they were willing to put in place serious regulations that protect the patient.

[depakid]

32. Australians are also doing quite nicely you'll notice

and we also score higher on major health outcomes and indices than Americans.

[WeCanWorkItOut]

33. Overpriced doctors, hospitals, drugs, admin...but also an obesity problem

Obesity is an important part of our national health problem.
We have the highest rate on earth.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Note that the Japanese and Koreans have very low obesity rates.
Of course they have other lifestyle advantages as well.
The Japanese seem to eat a lot of fish, which is a source
of vitamin D as well as the important oils.

How did we get so fat? Many of us have the genes to gain weight easily.
But we also don't get enough vacations. And there's where
the income gap comes in. The quite wealthy can afford the second home,
the exciting vacation trips. What do poor people do on vacation?
Too often it's just chores. Repair this or that, or try to.
Things the wealthy pay other people to do.
In the meantime the cost of parks go up, you have to pay to stop
at a beach. It's rough.

Important note: Lack of preventive care is not the big reason
for lower lifespans. For instance, in the EU they don't start
mammograms until 50. More generally, an article in Health Affairs
in 2009 recently noted about cancer screenings that
"European rates were 22-88 percent of the corresponding U.S. rates."
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/28/6/1838
(Sorry, only the abstract is available without a subscription)

Oh, another problem with vacations is that the labor unions began
giving away time-off in the 80s, in order to get better health insurance.
Now they should have bargained with doctors, hospitals and Big Pharma
to keep prices down, but they didn't think of that.

[skipos]

34. This might be a dumb question...

Does this include the taxes that each country pays to go toward health care? I assume that is what they mean by "public."

[Enthusiast]

35. Yes, taxes are included in "costs".

Even though you might have heard otherwise(from the GOP), European style single payer is cheaper and has a better outcome. And there is a wide variety of Euro style systems. And they ALL work better and are cheaper than ours.