Why do people who are on the fringe consider themselves to be the "base"

[pnwmom]

of their parties?

Wouldn't the base consist of loyal, consistent supporters of the party, regardless of where their political views place them on the spectrum? Why couldn't a centrist or moderate Democrat consider himself to be a part of the base, if he strongly identifies with and is a strong supporter of the party? Why would a person who has voted for Kucinich but also for Nader and the Greens consider himself to be part of the "base" of the Democratic party?

Is the "base" of the Democratic party its most loyal members, whatever their particular views on issues? Or does the base comprise the most progressive members, no matter how shaky their allegiance to the party?

[onenote]

1. if the base was who some DUers claim, why didn't Kucinich win any primaries?

For that matter, why didn't DK make it out of single digits in any primaries if the base -- the most informed, dedicated members of the party -- are who some DUers seem to think that they are.

[Joe Chi Minh]

27. How about... he didn't meet with the approval of the shadow election commission?

Nice try, though, mixing Kucinich in with Nader and the Greens.

[EFerrari]

38. If there was as many "far left" and "fringe" and "extreme ideologues"

at DU as is claimed here recently, Skinner would have called this board "Hardline Communist Underground", Grovelbot would call us "Comrade", and DK would not be popular here.

[Kahuna]

44. Exactly! nt

[treestar]

52. Amen!

I actually voted for him. But when I volunteered for his campaign in a small state I found I was the State Chairperson! I knew there wasn't much to build on.

[AlphaCentauri]

89. DK must be the factor that differentiate democrats from republicans n/t

[sabrina 1]

114. He wouldn't have agreed to bail out failed corporate

socialist, (when they need government handouts) Wall St. gamblers.

He wouldn't have cooperated with the warmongering wing of the party to wage eternal war.

He supported and would have fought for a Single Payer health care system that would have taken the costly failing Private Insurance industry out of our health care system.

And he wouldn't have appointed old Iran Contra criminal, Gates to be Sec. of Defense.

When he found it necessary to 'reach across the aisle', it would not be to shake hands with some of the most reactionary Republicans in Congress.

He would have supported the shutting down of the torture business and most likely would have supported the victims of torture's rights to be compensated for the crimes committed against them.

He would have supported real Election Reform, working to take the money out of our electoral system.

He is not acceptable to a government that has swung so far to the right that any politician who tries to adhere to the Democratic Party platform is considered 'fringe'.

As far as the 'base' of a political party, they are citizens first and when the party is not serving the people who elected them, it is the duty of citizens to speak out. Political Parties change as history has shown, over time. To be so committed to a party that people are willing to blind themselves to the reality of what is going on, well, history has shown us where that leads.

[YOY]

2. EXTREEEEEEME!!!

Single payer??? TOTALLY EXTREEEEME!!! Shit even a weak public option is TOTALLY EXTREEEME!!!

Fair Taxation of the wealthiest??? EXSTREEEEEME!!!

Investing in infrastructure and jobs over the military? EXTREEEEEME!!!

A constitutional lawyer finding obvious fault with the patriot act??? EXTREEEEEEME!!!

[Karmadillo]

9. Quit trying to seduce the base with your Stalinist crazy talk.

nt

[Echo In Light]

12. Exactly. Blind Allegiance ("loyalty") is what *really* matters

;)

[YOY]

19. Yeah...We're just Tea with chairman Mao with a side of Pol Pot Pie.

Woo hoo! EXTREEEEEEME!!!

[The Gunslinger]

28. That's some real radical far wacko left "fringe" thinking.....

Don't you know you should support more war and encourage, by mandates, the growth of the for profit health care industry.

[katsy]

50. +1 LOL!

[treestar]

53. Just being snarky about it will not mean it is mainstream

We have far more work to do. Your attitude won't help with all those voters out there who just don't care.

They won't buy that you are oh so superior.

[YOY]

88. I don't have to be superior!

I'm EXTREEEEEEME!

And the majority public was for a public option...therefore it's mainstream. It's not extreme. Most of those things are not fringe but generally popular ideas.

Just come to grips with it.

[Marr]

92. Yeah, isn't that funny?

I'm not an extremist. The things I'm for seem to be supported by a large majority of the population, if the polls are accurate.

Why do party loyalists so casually dismiss the actual *issues* people are interested in order to support their meaningless team?

[YOY]

98. Plenty of them here...I've seen every tactic under the sun.

Everything they could. Comparisons to the right, claims of access to "a greater reality than mine", childish insults, and my favorite: accusations of "extremism."

Sorry, but I am not an extremist. They are not centrists.

Everything they say cannot override "my lying eyes."

And when it goes south they own it.

[leftstreet]

108. +1

[live love laugh]

3. I believe it's the most loyal members with the most interests in common

The fringe on the other hand, seem to REACT negatively to everything coming from the party.

One might correctly argue that this new "fringe" on the left isn't left at all.

[treestar]

54. Amen, how can the base be reacting negatively to everything?

The base would expect Afghanistan, for example. Whether they like it or not, the base would tolerate, having decided to do so.

[AllentownJake]

4. The base are considered the reliable members

Seeing that moderates and conservatives are the ones that will vote for a moderate republican sometimes when offered the choice they are not the base.

The base of the democratic party spits when the word republican is uttered....they are starting to spit when the word DLC is uttered.

The base normally consists of Urban voters, union members, pro-choice advocates, LGBT voters, environmentalist, etc for the DNC

The GOP base normally consists of big business, evangelical Christians, Southern racist, and Randian libertarian nut jobs.

[zeemike]

6. Exactly.

And the key for the GOP is to point out all the differences in our base and get them to fight if they can....like they could start fighting about who is the real base.

[AllentownJake]

17. Well there is overlap

You have union members who are evangelical or conservative catholic, pro-choice women who are in favor of big business, and LGBT citizens who are also Randian libertarian nut jobs.

So if you don't provide for these members concerns, i.e. labor.

evangelical/conservative catholic union members will vote for the GOP, pro-choice women will vote for the GOP, and LGBT citizens who have the financial resources will vote for the GOP, because their particular issue is being ignored by the DLC wing of the party.

[Kalyke]

26. Pssst... you don't have to be Southern to be racist.

[AllentownJake]

30. No but if you are one in the north

You can be part of organized labor. The Southerners have no reason to be democratic because the party protects none of their working class and there is strong anti-labor belief system.

[Kahuna]

45. Except that the far lefties are anything buy, "loyal." As we see her on DU

on a daily basis, they threaten to not vote, to punish the party or the president. That is hardly, Loyal. The most loyal contingent of the Democratic base is black voters.

[treestar]

57. Exactly, there is no way the "base" would threaten to leave at this point

In fact the base would not have been calling Reid and Pelosi names during 2007-2009.

I for one am sick of the "spineless" meme.

None of the dems are spineless. They are dealing with reality that keyboard warriors of the far left have the luxury of ignoring.

[dflprincess]

117. This "far lefty" has been active in the DFL for nearly 38 years

I have never missed a precinct caucus. I have held offices in both the state and local party organizations (still do) and worked on countless campaigns. I have stuck with the party through thick and thin and voted for the candidate with the "D" after his/her name even when I felt like doing so wasn't necessarily in my interests but thought the Democratic candidate was still the lesser of two evils.

For me, selling us out on health care was the last straw. I will no longer vote for the "lesser of evils" just because there is a "D" by the name - the lesser of evils is still evil.

Do not make the assumption that those of us who are fed up are not loyal. We are loyal - to what the Democratic party used to stand for and likes to claim it still does. Just because we will no longer support corporate candidates, does not mean we are not "loyal", we're just not going to vote against own interests any more.

[treestar]

56. I've been accused of DLC but dont' really know what it is

But they can hardly be a fringe and won't vote Republican.

[pnwmom]

107. But shouldn't the base of the democratic party

also spit when the word Nader is uttered -- or Green? Since both Nader and the Green party are opponents of the Democrats.

[AllentownJake]

109. False argument

Al Gore cost Al Gore the election. A small group of idealist, did not bring George W. Bush to the Presidency. If you want to blame someone, blame Warren Christopher.

[pnwmom]

110. 95,000 Florida voters is NOT a small number, especially

since the final difference between Bush and Gore was only about 500.

Nader acted in open opposition to the Democrats, saying Gore and Bush were "Tweedledee and Tweedledum" and campaigning his hardest in the swing states. He's no ally.

[AllentownJake]

111. Never did I say he was an ally

However, if the party had not acted the way it had those 8 years, his message would have little resonance.

[annabanana]

5. I has to do with who is more likely to "DO" stuff..

The most committed and activist people are those who are most energized to do things like show up to vote in primaries, stuff envelopes, go door to door.. You know, the actual hard work of a campaign.

[H2O Man]

18. Right.

In 2000 and 2004, the "base" of the democratic arty, as defined in the OP, did just enough to lose two elections to Bush-Cheney. Though I believe that both Gore and Kerry actually won (Gore definitely, Kerry probably), the results were close.

In 2008, the left-wing of the party kicked in. While they were not the only reason Obama won, they were definitely among the most significant. It was the left-wing that got their friends further to the left to vote for a democratic candidate. Using myself as but one small example, I was able to get my family and friends to volunteer at the local headquarters, make phoe calls, go door-to-door, and register new voters. These actions benefited more than Obama-Biden: they helped determine the outcome of a very close congressional election.

For this reason, I expect that my voice should be heard.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Squeeky Wheels...

DU is definitely not the party base...nor has the Democratic party been a "liberal" party. While the party does attempt to represent liberal and progressive values, those who think it's the driving force behind the party have had a big shock of reality. It attempts to claim to be the party of the middle class, but that doesn't mean liberal...just as most middle class people don't consider themselves as such. Right now the "base" is varied...it's blacks, hispanics, New York liberals, California Progressives, North Carolina Blue Dogs and so on...and with such a huge "base" no one group or ideology stand ahead of anyone else...if anything, it's why the party was able to grab the center in the past couple elections. And, of course this doesn't square with some who self-righteously feel that they or their values is what the party is all about.

I have no problem with people voicing their dissent and criticism about any Democrat...and in many cases its warranted. I do have problems with those with their purity tests...who will claim the "moral high ground" when attacking this administration and then claim that those who don't agree with them are "cheerleaders". It's disengeuous and the antithesis of what I believe in...open and honest discussion of differences rather than rhetoric, posturing and name-calling.

This Fall I'll be back at canvassing and phone banking and I assure you the majority of people I talk to are far from calling themselves liberal or progressive but do identify with Democrats. They don't know Rahm Emanuel from a CD-Rom or care about the personalities or games. All they care about is putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their head. They check their pocketbooks and how they feel things are going. If they perceive Democrats as offering this better than rushpublicans, Democrats, no matter who the candidate is, wins.

While it's amusing to watch all the fighting and angst on DU, it's a tempest in a teapot. I've been a member of this site since nearly the beginning and have yet to meet a DU'er in person.

Cheers...

[treestar]

60. Good post

Democrats are always better than Republicans, true. The purity group doesn't get that Nebraska sending Nelson is better than another Nebraska Republican, for example.

[OHdem10]

8. Exactly who is this fringe???

Not many if any fringe at DU.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. Anyone not breathlessly supporting

any and everything that comes from the Democratic Party. Example: "The Fringe" believes that torture, regardless if it's from the Bush administration and the G.O.P. or from the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party is equally immoral. Party loyalists believe that torture is bad if the Bush Administration does it but OK if the Obama Administration does it.

[treestar]

61. Anyone who researches and reads before jumping onto reactionary

bandwagons from DU posts designed to get you to do just that does not "support torture." They simply realize that Rasul v. Myers is about whether aliens outside the U.S. can make civil claims against the U.S. don't have to like the result, but using it to claim the Obama Administration "supports torture" is ignorant in the extreme. Especially when one was already slamming the administration and is just using it to try to make the Administration look worse. all the admnistration did was defend the government side of a claim, which it is supposed to do.

[EFerrari]

76. But that doesn't explain why CIA is directing torture of Hamas captives

in the West Bank, it doesn't explain why the abuse of prisoners at Gitmo has escalated under Obama or why Leon Panetta said rendition is a tool he will use.

Before you call people ignorant reactionaries, maybe you should do some research because you sound like the reactionary ill-informed one in this exchange.

[ima_sinnic]

80. ---1 defending non-person status of a "suspected" "terrorist" to justify torture

DOES "support torture." The administration went out of its way to "do its duty" of upholding an illegal, immoral "law" and desecration of not only the Constitution but also of basic principles of human rights enshrined in law for a millennium. It could have sat back and done nothing, in this as in other cases letting rulings stand, but apparently it is so "committed" to "defending" illegalities and atrocities it felt the need to "do something." I see the spinners working overtime to make the case "a technicality" which is somehow supposed to imply that the administration really really does "intend" to restore habeas corpus, "someday," and really really secretly does NOT uphold torture in any way, shape, or form for whatever "reason"--"technical" or "strategic" or by some other obfuscation that simply makes torture a standard American practice now.

The equally sickening aspect of the case is that Obama has stressed how much torture is no longer practiced, one of several sick lies that have totally reduced his credibility.

I will believe JOURNALISTS like Juan Cole before some anonymous Internet poster with an Obama axe to grind, whose many many posts, when added together, are evidence of some agenda being pushed.

[Le Taz Hot]

87. I and others much more capable have done

exhaustive research and don't rely on the Obama Web Site for their talking points. There are dozens of fine articles about this administration and it's continuance of the Bush Administrations' torture policies. Here's only one of those but I think it lays out the repercussions and moral aspect quite well:

http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/1887-dred-scott-redux-obama-and-the-supremes-stand-up-for-slavery.html

As for making the Administration look worse, I'm the "loony left" and, therefore, insignificant. Remember? One minute you guys are dismissing us and the next you're blaming us for this Administration's disastrous policies. Which is it because you can't have it both ways.

[CBR]

10. I believe the strongest voting bloc for the Democratic party is

African-Americans. Jewish voters and those with graduate degrees also have a high percentage. If you look at Obama's approval -- whites are at around 35%, African-Americans 90% and Hispanics 65%. The regional discrepancy is also striking as the Northeast is extremely high, the South is extremely low with the Mid West and West Coast split.

[treestar]

62. I agree, the party cannot afford to ignore Hispanics

They may be somewhat conservative on some issues, too.

[yeswedid08]

11. The base of the Democratic party

The base of the Democratic party is comprised of Pragmatists, like our President, who are willing to abandon a public option (much to the chagrin of the Progressive branch of the party-like myself) in order to pass the most meaningful health care insurance reform since Social Security. While lamenting the fate of the public option and the influence of "moderates" like Ben Nelson and obstructionists like Lieberman, I applaud the Democratic caucus for their work in covering 30 million Americans and granting the American people a patient's bill of rights.

The Progressives at Moveon.org, Bold Progressives.org, and Health Care for America Now, are not the base of the party, as evidenced in their failure to achieve consensus on the public option, to strip Lieberman of his Senatorial positions, or to meaningfully pressure any of the Conservadems. I relate to the aforementioned Progressive movements, but the base is comprised of Pragmatic individuals who are pushing for the best reforms that are practically possible.

We should embrace their efforts and press them to achieve a better bill when crafting the Senate/House compromise.

[The Straight Story]

13. Because they believe in the 'base' of the platform of the party more than politics of governing

Cutting deals and appeasing rich/corp folks over helping the poor, "keeping the powder dry", etc are examples of politics in this case.

[mmonk]

15. As I grew up, there was no such thing as a centrist. There was

the Democrats (typically liberal) and the Dixiecrats (typically conservative) which eventually went Republican with Nixon.

[Mari333]

16. let me see...

once, being for the Constitution and all it stands for was considered patriotic.
Now, its considered a 'fringe element'.

The 'Right' has moved into neonazi territory.
The 'Center' has moved to the far right.
and the 'Left' has moved to the middle.

in the meantime, what used to be the left is now considered a fringe element.
you know, anti war, questioning military policies, demanding that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are kept intact, demanding that elected officials keep their word, criticizing elected officials , etc

[YOY]

20. You got it you 'extremist' you!

Now just shut up and let these "pragmatic realists" handle everything.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. Yes, you know... 'reality-based'. As forged by the 'cool Pinochet' right.

[Dappleganger]

21. Democrats wouldn't have a dog in this fight if it wasn't for the independent voters.

[Kansas Wyatt]

72. So the independent voters gave us BUSH for 8 years?

Are you saying that the independent voters are responsible for the nose dive the country has taken?

Hmm... Maybe the independent voters need to sit down and STFU, just like the Republicans, since the right turn screwed everything up for the last 30 years.

[Dappleganger]

83. Are you saying that my voice needs to be stifled??

Why don't you LISTEN to people instead of telling them to sit down and STFU. You're going on ignore, asshat.

[Kansas Wyatt]

86. You are the one who said that the independent voters decide everything.

Therefore, you take responsibility for Bush as well. Yet, you cling to repeating the same mistakes. Hmm... There may be a clue as to why, in there for you, but you put me on ignore. Have a blissful ignorance.

[Red Knight]

22. Bingo!!!

Well said.

I'm the Democrat I've always been. The party leaders may have moved to the right but I haven't and many others haven't.

If the party and the so-called moderate centrists have no problem sacrificing any principles for the cult of personality so be it.

I'm not going down that path and I'm not going away.

The party needs a fight to see where it truly is.

If it wants to abandon progressives then it's going to lose the heart and soul of the party and may as well just call itself Republican Party II and be done with it.

If this party belongs to Lieberman and Nelson now what good is it as an alternative to the Republicans?

[AllentownJake]

24. Before Ronald Reagan you could have been a Republican with such twisted beliefs

Amazing what neo-fascism has brought.

Neo-Liberal/Neo-conservative are the same thing, fascism, pure and simple. Ideologies met to meet the demands of an empire not a republic.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. Well, that's just crazy talk you damned

traitorous commie pinko! :evilgrin:

[treestar]

63. You may be bitter about it, and exaggerating, but it may be that the voters

really are further right than the purists want. In 2004 they showed how conservative they are and how little respect they did have for the Constitution. They learned the hard way.

But they are as they are, and won't get more liberal by snarky and condescending attitudes.

[Mari333]

68. I am supposed to give up fighting for the Constitution and Bill of Rights

and democratic principles just to garner votes?

I dont think so.

[treestar]

73. If it means ending up with Republicans in power you won't have

won any fight. And that kind of attitude doesn't win those voters. So you've proved you are superior to all others. That never gets anyone to vote your way.

[Mari333]

74. haha this is priceless standing for the constitution and bill of rights is now passe'

oy vey.

[Kansas Wyatt]

79. 2004?

Oh yes, the Magic Diebold machine making sure they give you an accurate count.
:rofl:

Too bad this country doesn't vote on ideals, rather than people...
Conservatives would find out just how unpopular their ideals really are, but I think they already know that.

[YOY]

94. Why is it that the only folks who openly identify themselves as "conservative" are generally idiots?

Really, I haven't met one who wasn't a complete knuckle dragger and the loudest voice in the room. The only ones who reproduce (or have the barest chance to) are the fundementalists...the rest are bitter angry rubes.

They aren't the majority. They just are now and always will be the easiest to manipulate and loudest people in the room.

[MineralMan]

23. The "Base" changes, depending on who's talking.

It's a propaganda term, really. Referring to oneself and one's like-minded friends as the "base" is a common way to increase the sense of importance of whatever group calls itself the "base." Beyond that, it's pretty meaningless.

Logically, though, the "base" of a party would be that group that invariably supports the candidates and actions of the party. The "base" would never vote for any candidate not aligned with the party.

Thus, the teabaggers call themselves the "base" of the Republican party, but are nothing of the sort.

Any group which promotes, joins, or votes for third-party candidates cannot be the "base" of any party.

[Double T]

25. The 'Democratic Party' needs a lot of shaking up before the next election.......

or they may be on the outside looking in. Doing 'something' that results in little or nothing is not 'change'. Our nation and economy is crumbling and I see NO REAL ACTION taking place to avoid our total ruination. Increasing the deficit, increasing the debt, bailing out and stimulating will only make a very bad situation much worse. The 'base' are followers; the 'base' needs to stop following and find a new direction for 'the Party'. Loyalty to our country should supersede loyalty to 'a Party'.

[laughingliberal]

48. Agree on the bailouts, disagree about stimulus

Bailing out the financial institutions is a bust. Obviously, the money does not benefit anyone but those at the top. Judicious use of stimulus spending on programs which result in jobs are effective. Our leaders allowed the watering down of the stimulus bill to get the 3 Republican votes needed to get it through the Senate. It was whittled down from $1 trillion to $787 billion and 40% was diverted to tax cuts. Although a tax cut aimed at working and middle class families is certainly more helpful than another cut for the top, it was not as effective as putting it into programs which would have created jobs would have been. Job growth tends to solve a lot of the deficit problems by increasing revenue. More workers = more taxpayers=more revenue=deficit reduction. If we start a deficit reduction plan which involves big cuts to spending, we are going to see the same double dip we saw in 1937 when Roosevelt fell into the trap of cutting spending.

[treestar]

64. What nightmare world do you live in?

:wtf:

[Double T]

119. The CURRENT one.

Hope things are better in the 'land of make-believe'.

[UTUSN]

29. K&R failed attempt to undo UnReKKK, and bwah-HAH for the hilarious thread Subject !1 n/t

[donco6]

31. Why do posts with no reccs constantly claim to speak for DU?

Can't figure that out either.

[treestar]

65. The rec/unrec game makes it completely irrelevant

I never go by that. Anyone can hit those buttons without commenting.

[jonnyblitz]

33. The TRANSPARENT tactic of the apologists demonizing

critics of Obama as being "fringe" fools NOBODY. One doesn't have to be a "fringe" person to criticize right wing BULLSHIT coming from a DEMOCRAT. Personality cult types seem surprised that some of us actually care about the ISSUES.

[treestar]

66. It is fact

Since the polls show 80% by Democrats, anyone "criticizing" (the terms seems to mean outright blaming him for everything and disliking every result he gets and everything he does) is in a minority. Period.

[Greyhound]

95. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win".

There is a blind panic running through the party apparatchik, they see their pseudo-libertarian/corporate dream being exposed and rejected by people across the political and financial spectra. Returning the republiks to power is the nightmare their allegiance to the corporatocracy is bringing.

Alliances have to work both ways, that's what they keep ignoring.

[Larry Ogg]

34. You can fool some of the people all of the time: this is the base.

You can fool all of the people some of the time: this is the base “plus” the outer fringe.

But you can’t fool all of the people all of the time: in other words, you can’t fool the outer fringe all of the time.

And it’s like overtly arrogant sociopath Gorge W. Bush once said, “You can fool some of the people all of the time; and those are the one’s you want to concentrate on.” Unfortunately, this could be one of the core principals of political paradigms; but what the fuck do I know, I’ve passed the outer fringe and now live in – The Twilight Zone.
Where you can’t be fooled again…

[Patriot 76]

36. The base doesn't hold its vote hostage.

That should be the only prerequisite to being the base.

If it makes folks feel better to berate the President on a hourly basis, let them.

Just so long as they're voting for him and his fellow Dem's.

And if they're not, they're worthless, short of their entertainment value.

[EFerrari]

40. You know the expression is a metaphor, right? The party base

doesn't literally lie down so they can be trampled on.

[Red Knight]

42. Why think at all?

Let's just remove our brains and replace them with programs that have walk us into the voting booths and push the "D" no matter what the issue may be.

You're advocating mindless, blind loyalty.

Essentially if Bush had a "D" under his name you would have consistently voted for him because of that. You would have put yourself in a position to vote for him and own whatever disaster he created simply because he was a Democrat.

That....is irresponsible and somewhat insane.

No thanks.

[Kahuna]

46. ...

:patriot:

[treestar]

67. Right on

The base would still be defending Obama, and probably will throughout his term.

No one in the base would trash Reid/Pelosi and congressional dems constantly, call them "spineless" or corrupt.

[YOY]

91. No but they don't vote when they feel they aren't represented.

Don't bitch at me...but try convincing those crazy extremist Union workers who I got to vote for Obama out of giving the Democratic party "one last chance."

And the bright side is once it falls apart like in 2000 (all theft theories aside) you can blame that same left base as "extremists"...and there is not a goddamn thing extreme about them.

[Marr]

99. Hmm. Then why do Republican pander to their "base"? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Just try and win an election with only "moderate" volunteers

When I was doing GOTV for Kerry, almost all the former Kucinich backers and Dean backers were out there. I know because those of us in Minneapolis fanned out from a single assembly point.

[treestar]

69. This claim is that some are superior to others

And that voters have no minds of their own and that other people won't volunteer.

And that therefore the elected officials must do all that these people want, or they will withdraw their alleged delivery of other people's votes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

105. You're welcome to try it with just the "moderates"

Go ahead.

[TexasObserver]

39. The base = those who usually vote for the party's nominees.

One can be part of the base and still decide to stay at home a particular election. That's how we lose seats. Every election is identifying our voters and getting them there on election day. When members of the base are disappointed, they don't get out in the same numbers. Meanwhile, the nut jobs for the GOP show up and vote, rain or shine.

[treestar]

70. Amen!

We are at a definite disadvantage there. Right wing nuts never abandon the Repukes. They are tireless. That's why these people are worse than useless! Their "disappointment" is not warranted because they are only going to end up with Repukes!

[QC]

41. When did giddy, giggling fans become the base? n/t

[izquierdista]

43. It's called being progressive

And those "fringe" ideas, such as abolition of slavery and child labor, allowing women to vote, health care for the elderly, an 8-hour work day, and a government guaranteed pension soon become the "base" of not just the Democrats, but the Republicans as well (although reluctantly in the case of the latter).

[treestar]

71. The people who wanted that did not give up in the first year

of the term of any President or congress that was closer to their side!

You can't compare the progressives here to those people. Those people were so much stronger. that's why they prevailed. They didn't give up so quickly.

[Kansas Wyatt]

82. Opening eyes...

People open their eyes to what is really there, and you say they are 'giving up.'

I'd be worried and spin like hell, if I were you too.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

84. Careful now.........

Don't you know "progressive" is a dirty word around these parts. You don't want to be lumped in with those horrible miscreants that are ending the Democratic Party as we know it, do you? HORROR!

[Selatius]

47. Because they fucking remember the working class that FDR and Truman fought for in the day.

If they voted for Kucinich, it's probably because their economic views are more in line with FDR than with Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, and who is painting the impression that large numbers of left wing Democrats voted for Nader or the Greens? If anything, voting for policies that hurt the working class or voting for a policy that merely seeks to appease the abusive, powerful rather than holding them accountable betrays the economic ideals that FDR and many Democrats back then championed.

[Toots]

49. Instead of Base I would suggest "The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party"

That is more appropriate of those here at DU.

[treestar]

51. Rec'd

The "base" certainly does not consist of people who desert a Democratic President and Congress within one year, and at the first disagreement or not getting entirely what they want out of a bill.

It's an outrageous claim and should be snuffed out every time it is made.

[laughingliberal]

55. Liberals may not be the base. I think that's debatable but what is not debatable is that if the

liberal wing of the party stays home at election time it will be difficult for Democrats to win elections. Voter turnout always favors Democrats and it has, generally, been the liberal members of the party who have worked with GOTV efforts. As the party platform still, largely, reflects what is referred to as 'fringe' here lately it does suggest it is the liberals in the party who are still involved at local levels-attending their state conventions and elected as delegates to the national. Even in this conservative state where I live, the Democrats showing up for meetings and caucuses are of a fairly liberal persuasion.

[shadesofgray]

100. +1.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. Demanding that the Party politicians earn our votes is democratic not "fringe".

[Kltpzyxm]

59. The base

is those who want to use party principles to do the most for those who have least.

Syncophant <> base.

[Warren Stupidity]

75. The 'fringe': anyone who disagrees with the leadership positions.

By overwhelming numbers self identified Democrats support single payer universal health care. That is your 'fringe'.

[natrat]

77. the new dlc whore game -fracture dems so there are no primary challenges

[Overseas]

78. There's that darn fringey Democratic Party Platform.

Those darn people believe in that dang party platform so they think that makes them the base of the party.
Imagine that!!

:crazy:

[Warren Stupidity]

90. Splinterist!

[Overseas]

96. Indeed! Whereever did I get my 21st Century FDR dream?

We will start by renewing the American Dream for a new era – with the same new hope and new ideas that propelled Franklin Delano Roosevelt towards the New Deal and John F. Kennedy to the New Frontier. We will provide immediate relief to working people who have lost their jobs, families who are in danger of losing their homes, and those who – no matter how hard they work – are seeing prices go up more than their income. We will invest in America again –in world-class public education, in our infrastructure, and in green technology –so that our economy can generate the good, high-paying jobs of the future. We will end the outrage of unaffordable, unavailable health care, protect Social Security, and help Americans save for retirement. And we will harness American ingenuity to free this nation from the tyranny of oil.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=78283

[omega minimo]

81. consider the influence of Republican Lite in what you consider "centrist" or "the base"

[bvar22]

85. Centrists/Moderstes ?...Whatever the TV says is "in the middle"...

...is good enough for THEM!


"Centrism"...because its SO EASY!!!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to insult those who do!
:party:

[NYC_SKP]

93. No shit, pnwmom. While the far left and MS Americans are on the same page on HCR, other items...

The Left Fringe is not on many or most others.

They claim to be the base, claim to have gotten Obama elected.

They no more got Obama elected than those Obamicans and ordinarily conservative middle Americans got him elected.

We ALL helped get him elected, (though not EVERY one here, I'm sure).

:donut:

[Marr]

97. I'm not loyal to your clique-- you're absolutely right.

I actually care about the issues the party claims to represent. If a political party doesn't represent my interests, I will not support it. The Democratic Party's current leadership is from the right-wing of the party and are doing a very poor job of representing my interests (and their party's platform).

:shrug:

[natrat]

101. they are one step ahead and dont care if you vote or not, they just install the next puppet

[mzmolly]

102. Great point!

:toast: And, I'm glad to know that my rec. will help keep your thread in the top tens. :hi:

[billh58]

103. K&R

Of course the fringe Far Lefties will cry "foul," but then again that is their favorite word.

[gulliver]

104. Plus one from me.

Frankly, I think these "emoters" are so few that we could do without them. Just dump a few of their pet policies altogether if they want to keep whining. Lose a couple of percentage points of sullen whiners; gain a few more percentage points from the middle. Dissent is one thing, but the issues are too serious for tantrums. If the emoters want to push the party to the right, they are doing exactly what they need to do--backstabbing it.

[CANDO]

106. People who call themselves centrists or moderates are afraid to stand up for something.

Also nothing gets done for the country to move forward if let up to the centrists and moderates. I'm a liberal, a 20+ year Teamster, and I'm not afraid to defend my principals by hiding behind a wishy-washy centrist/moderate title. And it's not about party loyalty. Why be loyal to a party that only pays lip service to your issues? You call me fringe when it's people such as myself who got us everything we ever had coming to us.

[madfloridian]

112. So we only really count if we have blind loyalty?

Hmmmm

[Unvanguard]

113. Because people convinced they are right are generally also convinced that

everyone else "deep down" agrees with them.

Hence their tendency to attribute failure to weak leadership and/or elite conspiracies.

[eridani]

115. In 1994 after NAFTA, enough of the base sat home to get the Repukes in power n/t

[inthebrain]

116. The Democrats have been moving sharply rightward for a very long time

There are no reformists left in the party. Much of the base of the party looks to guys like FDR as it's real identity. In the eighties and on it became very clear to lots of folks that the Democrats had become something very different. Keep in mind that it was a Democratic Congress in the eighties that allowed Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.

[yodoobo]

118. Everybody thinks they are they base

Everybody thinks they are the norm.
Everybody thinks they are middle class.

oh yea

Everybody thinks they are a great driver.