Grover Norquist does not have your best interests at heart

[cali]

anymore than Ken Starr did. And teaming up with him makes no more sense than teaming up with Starr. The same holds true of the teabaggers. Just because they oppose the Wall Street bailouts does not make them good partners for.... anything.

Grover's goals are: To take down a dem President and to dismantle completely the social safety net; a social safety net that needs reinforcing. His goal of taking down the current administration is a means to an end, and it's not an end that anyone here supports.

The Teabaggers? Pretty much on the Grover page with the added filips of racism and xenophobia plus a lot of wingnut fundamentalism.

This a prospective partnership forged in hell.

[asdjrocky]

1. You mean he's not one of us?

[cali]

3. it is kind of stating the obvious, rocky

but sometimes that's necessary

[asdjrocky]

8. Cali, it's become personal.

Around here, especially. There are people, who will not agree on the color of the sky, no matter what.

No, Grover is not a friend of any liberal, and I understand why you're making the statement.

I like Jane most of the time, don't like Grover any of the time. Hell, if I could find one person that I agree with on everything, I might not have gotten married 3 times. I'm learning, as I get older, that the absolutes in my life are becoming fewer.

[mcablue]

2. You can't disagree with bad people 100% of f he time

The OP is clearly a reaction to the proposed investigation of Rahm Emanuel by a left-winger and a right-winger, but he does not mention Rahm Emanuel once, presumably because of Rahm's lack of popularity here. He instead uses the "Is Norquist bad when we view his positions in general terms" strawman.

Sometimes, people that are bad in general, advocate good things, such as investigating what Rahm during his Freddie Mac gig.

I don't think John McCain has the best interests of Americans on his mind. But I agreed with his drug reimportation amendment and other bills he co-sponsored in the past.

Some are trying to imply that people who want Rahm investigated are Norquist fans. Wrong. Both sides simply share that particular goal.

[cali]

4. you can avoid any partnership with them, though.

[mcablue]

6. Why would partnership in the specific issue where common ground exists be avoided?

It's not like any progressive has decided to form a party with him. How broad is the partnership that you imply is being formed here?

[cali]

9. why would one avoid any partnership with David Duke?

[mcablue]

10. Are you talking in the context of Duke possibly calling for an investigation of Rahm Emanuel?

Or partnering with him in being racist? I asked you how broad the partnership was that you were talking about, and you didn't answer.

[cali]

13. I'm saying that there are some people one shouldn't partner with period.

[mcablue]

23. Are you sure you're not simply reacting to the proposal of Rahm being investigated?

Hmmm.

[cali]

37. yes. quite sure.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. Integrity. :) n/t

[POAS]

33. I never cared for Rahm,

but now that I know Grover and the PUMA Hamsher are after his ass I think I may have misjudged him.

You want to align on ANY issue with those two and you have to realize that their agenda means you are about to get stabbed in the back.

They don't call them ratfuckers for no reason.

[CBHagman]

5. You don't need to convince me.

But who here has teamed with Grover Norquist? Is this a variation on the Ron Paul infatuation that some DUers have succumbed to from time to time?

[hayu_lol]

7. Lest we forget...

Ralph Nader is seriously close friends with Norquist. Has been such for a long period of time.

[ipaint]

11. No shit sherlock. Norquist is scum and every left group, and there are many,

that has aligned themselves with him in the last decade knows that.
But apparently the left is only allowed to play the victim role in your book. The right can use us but we are not allowed to turn the tables and use them.
Funny how that works, makes you wonder whose side the folks that make up these asinine rules are really on.

[TheKentuckian]

12. I'm less than confident in the left's ability to outsnake the snakes.

Its like saying you can out swim any fish in the sea.

[cali]

14. I'm saying that you are being a useful tool if you partner with the likes of Norquist.

[ipaint]

17. As I said we are only allowed to be victims of the right. Useful tools only.

Not any more.

[cali]

20. lol. anyone teaming up with Norquist is the useful tool.

[KharmaTrain]

15. Blinded By Frustration...

You're spot on. Norquist is a scam artist who will take advantage of people and a situation to advance his own agenda and wealth. Sure he'd like to see the health bill fail...it's cause he favors the status quo and even allowing the insurance companies have even more power. Wanna bet he likes the idea of a mandate...his opposition is to the sudsidies (how dare poor people get any of MY money). On Wall Street...he's got no problem with the large banks taking "privitized" social security and gamble it away with little oversight or regulation. The dude is as slick as they come and looks like he's hooked a fish.

:hi:

[WeDidIt]

16. He'll drown the firebaggers in a bathtub

Right after they help him Whitewater Obama.

Hamsher is so full of shit she's gone completely around the bend. The bullshit she's pushing for an investigation has already been investigated three times. Her ego is writing checks her website can't cash.

[JVS]

18. How does that differ from the DLC agenda?

[Red Knight]

19. Neither does Rahm Emmanuel

What are you going to do about it?

[MannyGoldstein]

21. We Needed Stalin To Win WWII

Sometimes you need the enemy to help advance the greater cause - whether it makes sense depends on the badness of the enemy and the goodness of the greater cause.

I'm on the fence on re: teaming with the Crazy Right - it *is* true, however, that the White House will continue to moon those with actual Democratic ideals until something like this happens. We need a cudgel of some sort.

[Peacetrain]

28. Dear God.. you want to crucify an elected Democrat but make excuses

for Norquist?

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Huh? Neither Is True.

No more than it's true that FDR loved the Gulags when he teamed with Stalin.

All I want is a President who acts like a Democrat, like he promised to do when a candidate. If he continues the 29-year war against the Middle Class - which he's doing - I want him stopped.

[TwilightGardener]

32. Yep. That's what it's come to, here.

[laughingliberal]

35. Rahm Emanuel is NOT an elected official. nt

[RFKHumphreyObama]

38. This is not WWII and Obama is not Hitler

[mmonk]

22. I hate to say this but the centrists don't either.

The difference is they pretend to be as they work on the same goals of dismantling the safety net for corporate rule.

[mcablue]

24. I agree. Evan Bayh cares about his wife's WellPoint stocks, and Joe Libermann...need I say more

[JVS]

25. Using the crazy right against the centrists is merely our way to triangulate the triangulators

If centrists love the right so much, let them stew in it.

[mmonk]

29. Yep.

Let's see how deeply committed they are to it.

[Peacetrain]

27. do you have any idea how insane that sounds... people who try and look at both sides

are now somehow in the same category as the insanity of my way or the highway.. and a guy who would really like to see you under the wheels of the bus.

[Marr]

31. It's not insane, because what's called a "moderate" today is not

just someone who tries to look at both sides. They are, without exception so far as I can see, neoliberal, free trade hacks. Their economic agenda is almost indistinguishable from the GOP's.

[Vogon_Glory]

34. Norquist Was Part and Parcel of Boosh-Cheney Era Corruption

Grover Norquist and his buddy Jack Abramoff were part and parcel of the corrupted political discourse the Republic endured for the last twenty-plus years. How ANY thinking Democrat--centrist or liberal--could think they can ally themselves with that rascal eludes me.

Norquist's agenda remains what it always was--to destroy what limited social and economic protections the working and middle classes have and to place the government and economy firmly in the control of the 'malefactors of wealth' that even Theodore Roosevelt denounced 100 and something years ago.

To the firedoggers, lie down with Grover and his right-wing buddies and you'll wake up with something far worse than fleas.

:dem:

:patriot:

[Yuugal]

36. Having one enemy slap another enemy of mine is a good thing

"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." - Winston Churchill


It seems to me like Grover wants to invade DLC land. Sounds good to me. We should support that with many words and zero actual help. Both the DLC and Grover are my enemies, the difference being the DLC has done alot more damage to me than a shrieker like Grover ever could. Any time corporatists want to shoot each other in the foot we should assist.

GO Jane Go. The Rahm-scammers will hate you but many of us progressives are cheering the change in tactics from "bend over here it comes again" to "two can play at that game."

As another poster noted, "lets triangulate the triangulators."