On the assumptions that people make about critics of Obama and the Dems on the left

[MadHound]

There's the assumption that all those who criticize the Dems are expecting ponies and such immediately.

We're not.

We recognize that Obama inherited a great deal of problems and realize that it is going to take him time to make progress.

However we were expecting that Obama and the Dems wouldn't take this country backwards, yet in several significant areas, the war, health care "reform", issues of privacy and civil rights, education and others, we've seen regression.

This is why we criticize, speak out, shout out. Once more, as in the past, the left put some serious, significant skin in this game and have only seen concern with corporation and empire.

We're not asking for the world, ponies, whatever epithet you choose. We're not asking for instantaneous gratification. But we are demanding progress, not regression.

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Rec. I agree with you completely....

.... but you might be right anyway.

Well said.

[OHdem10]

2. .....But we are demanding progress, not regression."

Common Sense should confirm to anyone that the eight years of
Republican Governance pushing Conservative Economic Fundamentalism
landed us in the present crisis. It is my contention that the
American People recognized that the so called Free Market
Principles were dooming us and therefore they voted fot
Change. Change is not continuing the Reagan--"The Invisible
Hand of the Market will solve all problems-:-"Greed is Good"
"Let the Market work its will". These principles carried out
in the form of Deregulation, Taxcuts for the wealthy, and the
literal handover of Government to Corporate Control brought us
our present grief.

The Democrats and WH have consistently given the appearance
of embracing these principles and simply digging the hole
deeper.

As a Liberal I am asking for progress not regression. Putting
the Business Interests first is a RW principle. The Health
care Insurance Reform Bill from the Senate does just this.
Puts Business first, protects the wealthy(no taxes on rich
but taxes Union HC Premiums.) Mandares Americans to buy
Insurance and no real controls on prices. Yes, this is
a Center Right Policy drawn up DINOs.

We Liberasl just want fairness and progress. I put more
blame on the Senate. I do at times feel hurt when we
are acused of hating Obama. I blame the Senate DINOS.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Hmmm. The Senate DINOs aren't trying to privatize.....

... and de-unionize public education.

Obama is.

[OHdem10]

7. I would say the DINOs are trying to privatise Health Care by

removing as much Gov. Involvement as possible. Removing
a public option and forcing all Americans to buy Private
Insurance appears to be first step on the way to privatization.
Taking ten years to cover the 30 million uninsured but
forcing Americans to start paying for benefits immediately.

Should Obams have been more involved from the beginning:
Absolutely. I also believe the bill might have been much
different had he exerted his influence early on. However,
I am not ready to let the Senate slither by as we have
permitted them to get away through the years. They accepted
responsiblity for the bill when Obama handed it over to
them to write. The DINOs showed their colore and they
need to be held accountable. Again, one could say the
Dinos are trying to privatize health care.

[sendero]

19. I completely believe..

... Obama got exactly the bill he wanted. And that's why I will never vote for him again. (well that and Timothy and Larry, which should have been clue ONE as to what kind of president Obama was going to be)

[truedelphi]

43. Same here. When I started paying attention to the words that he

Spoke at the various Town Hall meetings that he attended, I realized that he could care less about public option.

he said as much when a Univ fo CO student asked him about it.

President's reply, "Uh um well, a public option is only one tool among many tools, and we don't know if the final bill will include a public option or not."

[Vinca]

4. Silence is tacit approval.

[Laelth]

5. The cheerleaders know this.

Ultimately, I think they're ashamed, and they're angry at those of us who remind them they should be ashamed. So, many of them resort to petty attacks, ad hominem, and derision ... because it is very difficult to substantively defend what the President and elected Democrats are doing.

It's a natural response, but it doesn't make those of us on the left feel any better, nor does it help promote party unity. They seem to prefer to drive liberals away.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Teaser]

9. The sneerleaders don't understand this, though

that when a substantive defense of a policy is put forward, a loud "NUH-UH" is not a rebuttal

[ixion]

11. lol... so true

:rofl:

I've seen a great deal of that these days.

[Laelth]

12. Sneerleaders. I like that. Smile.

I haven't had the experience you describe. I find my arguments against this "health insurance reform" bill are, generally, ignored.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[varelse]

48. Sneerleaders - a new DU term is born

:rofl:

[Dr.Phool]

61. I've been using "colostomy-baggers"

They're full of shit. Will not accept ANY criticism, constructive or otherwise.

One reason I rarely venture out of the Stock Market Watch, LBN, and WEE threads anymore.

[KittyWampus]

14. And posts like your illustrate nicely that you aren't about constructive criticism.

And you have jack shit to offer in the way of pro-active ideas.

[MadHound]

17. Really?

The simple explanation of where people on the left are coming from isn't constructive criticism? The explanation of the issues that the left want to see addressed in a proactive fashion isn't constructive criticism. Then what, in your opinion, is constructive criticism? Or let me guess, despite your protestations that you don't agree with the direction this administration is taking, all you're really looking for is more cheerleading, and disparage any calls for change from the left.

Oh, here are some proactive ideas for you: End these illegal, immoral wars, put a strong public option in the health care "reform" bill, stop the ongoing privatization of education, start paying attention to the needs of regular people rather than catering to the needs of the wealthy and elite.

Is that proactive enough for you?

[L0oniX]

31. Irony?

[Echo In Light]

16. Precisely. Plus it forces some to acknowledge that they're not as lib/left as they prefer to cast

... themselves as being ... and not in a sense of trying to hold to an imposed ideal, but rather, are forced to examine their own subjective views/feelings which turn out to not be very aligned w/those traits, characteristics and moral concerns that represent the left. Then the denial and subsequent hostility kicks into overdrive...

[MadHound]

18. So I think what you're saying, in a very convoluted manner,

Is that support for and end to these wars, support for gay rights, women's rights, public education, the public option, none of these are really left positions. OOOOK there, I'll simply move on from this one.

[Echo In Light]

20. You must be quite unfamiliar w/the usual tone of my posts - you got it backward

Those are all indeed lefty positions, and ones which I support. What I'm suggesting is that there are those whose support for those are tepid here, strong there, completely absent on others, etc...and it's from those ranks that the bitching about the left stem from by those who vote Dem, but aren't exactly left-leaning when it comes to those crucial issues/policies.

[MadHound]

23. OK, I get it now,

Sorry, but your post is convoluted and I'm still on my first cup of coffee. Thanks for the explanation.

[Echo In Light]

24. It's a re to Laelth's #5 posting

And I thought it was terse and self explanatory ... sorry if it threw ya off :)

[elocs]

6. The "pony" thing is so old and over-used, yet the unimaginative still trot it out.

That along with the attitude that anybody who criticizes Obama in any way is a "hater". The irony is that often the ones we love are the ones who disappoint us the most.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. The shark jumped over the pony that was standing on the un-rec feature.

And the crowd "Oohed" and "Aahed."

[Teaser]

8. What you must understand about supporters of Obama, who are also Dems "on the left"

is that they do not agree that all the policies you criticize are taking the country "backwards."

[JDPriestly]

53. If they don't support the list that was provided in the post we are discussing,

they are not Dems, much less, Dems "on the left."

First of all, Dems are only on the left because the Republicans are the only other choice, the Republicans are extreme right-wing at this time.

The principles on the list -- ending senseless wars, supporting public education, supporting more public health care, equality and opportunity for women and minorities -- and not just for women and minorities but for all -- are old-fashioned Democratic principles. They are the same things my mother stands for. She is 93, a minister's wife and a life-long Democrat. She has not veered left. Obama and the DLC have turned right and left the Democratic Party behind.

[ixion]

10. spot on, MadHound

kicked and recommended. :applause:

[KittyWampus]

13. Well, the orgy of hate that has occured on GD Forum isn't criticism. It's a childlike meltdown.

And the Health Care Bill is progress.

[MadHound]

22. See, there you go again,

Any sort of criticism to you is an "orgy of hate". Speaking of counter productive, there it is. You discount any sort of protest that is loud and not to your liking, well guess what, polite protests get absolutely nothing accomplished.

As far as the HCR being progress, we'll have to disagree on that one. I see the looming destruction of the middle class by mandating they pay for health insurance as regression (are you ready to pay an average of twenty seven percent of your income in premiums to insurance companies within a few years). I also see that passing a bill, any bill, that limits women's rights is also regressing. We'll see what comes out of conference, but with the Nelson provision and the Stupak amendment in place, it certainly looks like women's rights will be diminished, and you're seeing that as progress?

Sorry, but the positives of the bill nowhere near outweigh the negatives.

[L0oniX]

32. It certainly is progress for the health insurance industry and the stock holders.

[Greyhound]

34. Ad hominem, false premise, begging the question, every irrelevant appeal I am aware of,

bandwagon, straw men, post hoc ergo propter hoc, red herring, and the Democratic Party's all-time favorite; the tu quoque fallacy, compose the extent of your arguments.

Do you have anything beyond spin and wishful thinking to justify your constant defense of the indefensible?

[Daemonaquila]

35. Definitely not for women, and not for many others -

but it's a huge win for insurers. This bill cements the current insurance system, making it harder than before to uproot it in favor of a public option, much less universal coverage. It's progress only in the sense that it would be progress for a starving kid to fill his belly by following a train of cookie crumbs into the woods - only to die of starvation and exposure several days later because he was too lost to ever find help.

[Neecy]

36. Orgy of hate, eh?

Who's spamming GD with 'orgies of hate' against Hamsher this week? Or Dean last week? Or Maxine Waters the week before? Or Dennis Kucinich the week before that?

The only orgies of hate I'm seeing is coming from the Pom Pom squad, spamming GD endlessly with screeches of hatred against their Enemy of the Day. I don't know what is supposed to be gained by this stupidity - surely not converts - but these weekly raids into GD with almost identical 'orgies of hatred' day after day after day tells me exactly who is engaged in the dictionary definition of "hatred" - and it ain't us.

[Enthusiast]

64. Child-like ?

Calling the outrage over the HCR bill an orgy of hate is child-like. And we all agree it is big progress - for the insurance industry.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. K & R

Reasonable people will read your post and agree . . .

[asdjrocky]

21. Thanks for saying this.

My new favorite is magic wand. As if I actually believe our President has one.

I try really hard to have conversations of merit here with people and the name calling makes it nearly impossible.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Why don't the Obamapologists criticize Republicans rather than fellow Democrats?

:sarcasm:
The White House seems to be running out a string of stooges to criticize "the Left" rather than Republicans.

Just sayin'.

[Daemonaquila]

37. Oh, but don't you know that Obama is MORE popular than ever with the left?

Especially with the far left?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/12/23/liberals_revolt_against_obama_not_really_99652.html

(This guy has some swamp land to sell you in Florida, too.)

The sad fact is that the DLC booster club and the Rethugs are on the same side in bashing the left. The Rethugs have to demonize Obama by pretending he is much more left than he is because his policies so far would play wonderfully with their base, if they ever stopped being whipped in to a frenzy about him being a socialist and a non-citizen. Meanwhile, Obama has thrown the left under the bus,but can't afford the backlash - therefore the progressives must be marginalized as the radical weirdos and as many liberal voters/volunteers salvaged as possible through the playground tactic of "Don't you want to hang with the cool kids instead of the freaks and geeks?"

[havocmom]

40. +100

[treestar]

27. Then there is disagreement about what constitutes progress

So maybe quit assuming people who disagree are corporate or insurance company shills and all that stuff?

Maybe they just think this is the way to go and disagree with you that it is a disaster.

[MadHound]

30. I've never thought that people who disagree with me are corporate shills

And if they disagree with me that this is a disaster, great, fine, all I ask is that they prove it to me.

Instead, what most often happens is that I get attacked, insulted, everything except the proof.

I find that in and of itself very telling, that all these people can do is hurl insults, not engage in debate.

[treestar]

33. both sides do that and make the same complaint

I tend to dismiss that as a ground for the debate. Go back to the substance of the debate rather than who is attacking who. Both sides make personal attacks and both sides suffer personal attacks.

[Enthusiast]

65. Insurance industry shill:

Any politician/citizen that is an advocate for the insurance industry being exempt from anti-trust laws. Also those that are opposed to the strong public option.

These people are insurance company shills. No question about it.

[highplainsdem]

28. K&R

[inna]

29. Exactly. KR

[havocmom]

38. K&R

I was one of the earliest reminders that fixing decades of bad agenda would take a bit of time. I am a bit slow to kick Obama about many wrong (in my estimation) moves, but kick I must.

When one is attacked for opinion arrived at after careful reading & thought, one must wonder: How weak is the faith if 'true believers' (which is the attitude of many of these dissent-intolerant DLC attack hounds) have to attack anyone with question or a different view to share? How fucking weak is ANY agenda if it cannot stand some fair scrutiny on a DISCUSSION forum?

This Love it or Leave it crap, which is what a lot of these personal attacks boil down to, is Rove-style intimidation of righteous debate and it stinks to hell here at DU.

[amborin]

39. Well Said! K&R

[LWolf]

41. And those "significant areas"

just happen to be the reasons I vote in the first place.

:(

[Enthusiast]

66. That's why they're 'significant.' nt

[havocmom]

42. Ah, their new talking point leaves ponies at the side of the road

Today's TP seems to be 'if you can't trust the folks in D.C. how can you be for public option or single payer?'

Am thinking some DLC PR wonks are NOT having along holiday weekend ;)

[fascisthunter]

44. As We Rightfully Should Demand Better

How many issues has the left compromised in the last 30 years? What has been demanded upon by the left and received? Nothing... because a bunch of corporate tools gave us all a populist line only to lie their way into power and then turn right after being mainly voted in by the left.

Damn right we demand... we have every frickin' right to..

[depakid]

45. When a cult of personality (or party) is in place- one has to expect such a dynamic

[Thickasabrick]

46. K&R

[KoKo]

47. I don't know about "ponies and such" ...I just expected Democratic Results based on the Election...

Wasn't looking for rainbows, ponies are all that weird stuff people post here about. A DU'er even posted about "sugar coated bedposts."

Sheesh.. I was just looking for someone who would take all the INVESTIGATIONS against BUSH/CHENEY ..VERY SERIOUSLY and start working for CHANGE. When WALL ST. BANKERS CAME with "HAIR ON FIRE" saying GLOBAL ECONOMY about to IMPLODE and BUSH and then OBAMA GAVE THEM EVERYTHING...it did cause some of us who had watched this all and knew it was going to go down...some pause. It was like "9/11!" INVADE IRAQ because the TERROISTS ARE THERE! KILL, KILL....SAVE THE BANKS...GLOBAL ECONOMY ON THE BRINK OF DISASTER!

OMG...TALK ABOUT FLAMING RHETORIC!

[Butch350]

49. What regression...specifics would be nice. Not generalizations?!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. You want a list?

More troops in Afghanistan
Health care more firmly in the hands of the insurance companies than ever, with no input from single-payer advocates allowed, while insurance co's and Big Pharma were allowed into closed door meetings with Obama
The Patriot Act renewed and expanded
Extraordinary renditions continue
More stupid TSA security theater
No repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell (something that would require a simple executive order, as the original ruling did)
Signing statements
A Cabinet and staff of advisors made up entirely of centrist and right-wing Democrats and even Republicans
No prosecution of Bush-era war criminals
Bank bailouts with no obligations for the banks to reform

And those are just off the top of my head. If Bush had done these things, you'd be screaming your head off, but since it's Your Hero, it's all fine and dandy with you, or else you choose to ignore it because you have this childish idea that Obama is one of your personal Good Guys and that Good Guys are always right.

[mirrera]

50. K&R

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. I would like to see just ONE major move away from militarism, corporatism, and

authoritarianism.

Instead, I see either maintenance or intensification of Bush-era practices.

I was right. Obama is our own Tony Blair, elected to undo the damage done by years of conservative government, and instead hell bent on maintaining the conservative measures--albeit with a more pleasant demeanor.

[quickesst]

52. Let me attempt a simple brutal answer....

" There's the assumption that all those who criticize the Dems are expecting ponies and such immediately"

Because most of those, perhaps you, perhaps not, who believed the ponies were coming with the election of the first black president, and berated any who opposed him as racists, are now among the most outspoken critics, magically forgetting all the fucking crap those who were not enamoured of this man had to endure. I was among those who did not think Obama was the best choice for the Democratic nomination, but when the inevitable occurred because of those who were looking for a pony, I voted for him. I voted for him because he was the Democratic nominee, and the alternative was unthinkable. Now that he is president, and despite the setbacks of what I and many others knew would occur, I will continue to support Obama, shortcomings and all simply because the alternative in 2012 is as stated before, unthinkable. Perhaps after the next election, and possibly the one coming, progressives will not compete for "Liberal of the Year", and concentrate on the actions, merits, experience, and character of the next nominee rather than unrealistic ideals who's time is near, but is not yet ready for prime-time. I willingly accept that it will take more time, and cannot be forced, and I do so with the hope that my grandchildren will live in the world the pony-wanters desire, no, demand right now. Thanks.
quickesst

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. Mischaracterization

I was never an ardent Obama supporter because his supposed leftist slant always looked fake to me. If Sarah Palin hadn't been so scary, I would have voted third party.

I thought it was great that the country was ready to elect a president of color, and I saw how happy local African-Americans were on election night. (A woman in the bar where I watched the election returns with other local DUers was running around hugging all the white people as I left, and as I drove home, people on the sidewalks were getting the news on cell phones and high-fiving one another.)

However, I never trusted him, and I hoped that my suspicions were wrong.

Well, my suspicions were wrong. Obama has turned out worse than I anticipated.

[Enthusiast]

67. +1, complete mischaracterization.

But I did trust Obama. I expected him to be what he said he was. But he is not. He repeatedly promoted the public option as THE ANSWER. He told us we would import drugs to force the prices down.

If a strong majority of the American people want a public option to compete with the insurance industry's entrenched interests it is not a pony. The public option would be called representative government. Not having the public option is caving in to entrenched interests. Same with regulating the financial services industry.

[MadHound]

63. Where to begin,

At the beginning

The vast majority of Obama supporters didn't expect ponies, period. In fact a significant contingent on the left, if not most, were originally for DK and were quite harsh about Obama, like myself(please, go do a search of the postings I did during the primaries). The only reason that I didn't vote Green was I didn't want to see Palin anywhere near the White House.

While you may feel obligated to continue your support of him, I can't. I refuse to support any politician who will not support me. For instance health care, the premium payments that the middle class is going to be paying within just a few years will destroy much of the middle class. That directly effect me. The proposed tax on "Cadillac" plans, that directly effects me as well, since unions, including teacher's unions, do have nice insurance plans, it is one of the few benefits we get that makes up for crappy pay.

Speaking of education, I'm sorry, but being a teacher I cannot support Obama and his administration and their education policies. They are simply continuing the destructive privatization policies started under Bush, worse, accelerating them. This is not just because this will adversely effect my profession, but it will also fuck up generations of kids to come. Because of this, we should all be concerned.

The war, a big, huge deal in my book. Not just from a personal standpoint, having friends and relatives involved, but also from a philosophical standpoint. We are fighting two illegal, immoral wars right now, and possibly opening up on two more countries. This is simply wrong on many, many levels, morally, politically, philosophically, economically, etc. etc. I cannot stand by and let innocents die in foreign lands all for political games being played here.

Which brings me to 2012, and back to my original point, why should I support a man who isn't supporting me? That is, after all, the essence of democracy. Obama has basically told the left to fuck off. We realized that single payer wasn't in the cards, we are, after all, pretty well educated. But having a strong public option is a good compromise, one that could have, and should have been made. But instead the public option is out, Medicare extension is out, and the left is left with the short end of the stick, again.

In this and many other things there is no wish for ponies, but rather a demand for progress coming from realpolitik. Do you actually think that we should achieve this "victory" by limiting women's right to choose? But that is what's about to happen.

You overstate your case and engage in hyperbole regarding the left. Yes, we are being loud, being vocal, we are, after all, having to make ourselves heard over the noise of both the 'right and our so called friends in the Democratic party. If you don't like the noise, then help us do something to change matters, rather than trying to shame, shun or shout us into silence.

Otherwise we'll just make our voice and power known in 2010 and 2012. After all, that's how democracy works.

[quickesst]

68. As usual...

...the intelligence on this board takes precedent over what should be broken down to common sense and logic.

"You overstate your case and engage in hyperbole regarding the left."

Good excuse for disregarding common sense and logic in favor of parading one's self-perceived intellectualism. Regardless what many here believe, their unrealistic, up to now, and in the near future, idealistic thinking is what will land another repug in the white house, setting back what little tiny steps have been made toward what most progressives have strived for. Keep this up, and twenty years down the road you'll still have what you have now. High hopes and pipe-dreams.

Hyperbole:Extreme exaggeration or overstatement; especially as a literary or rhetorical device; Deliberate exaggeration;

I think not, and if many here were capable of not relying on their over-active sense of idealism, it would be a simple thing to understand. The forest in this case, is definately getting in the way of seeing the trees.

"If you don't like the noise, then help us do something to change matters, rather than trying to shame, shun or shout us into silence."

I'm not shaming, shunning, or trying to shout you into silence. If you interpret my words that way, it's not my problem, it's yours. Truth hurts sometimes, and people find ways to deal with it in their own way. It's just too bad many here cannot see the truth for what it is. We're working overtime to ensure a deadlock pendulum that will swing back and forth for our lifetime, our children's lifetime, and perhaps our grandchildren's lifetime, and the cycle won't be broken overnight. It will take time, but as long as we take one baby step forward, and two giant steps back, it may continue indefinately.
Thanks.
quickesst

[MadHound]

69. And you are the only one with common sense and logic on this board, right?

Talk about self perceptions, more like self delusions.

Your demeaning style is not winning you any friends, that's for sure. That you consider such issues as women's rights, the privatization of our education system, the war, civil rights, the destruction of the middle class and others as "unrealistic" and "idealistic" simply goes to show how out of touch you are. In fact you don't even discuss these issues, instead you disregard them with sweeping, general statements designed to demean and deny. Such actions on your part leads me to the conclusion that you simply don't care about them, or don't know about them, or both.

As far as getting a republican elected, well gee, at this point what difference would it make? Quite frankly given Obama's track record up to this point it wouldn't make hardly any difference at all. The war would continue, women would be marginalized, our civil rights would still be shredded, education would still be privatized, etc. etc.

You are simply another apologist for this administration and Democrats in general. Your disdain is apparent, as is your lack of intellectual firepower. Instead you rely on insults and demeaning, sneering comments to make your point, and dismiss any and all legitimate criticism as "idealistic thinking". Well, that's fine, if that's what you want to do. The rest of us will ignore you for the apologist that you are and go on fighting the good fights.

Now if you want to discuss specifics, fine, but otherwise I'm going to allow you to post your demeaning, dismissive reply and then move on. I don't have time for the likes of you.

Peace:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. What Mad Hound said

I raved against Bush for eight years.

I reserve the right to rave against a Democrat who is continuing his policies.

An older relative once gave me this advice about potential romantic partners: "Don't believe what they say. Believe what they do."

The same goes for politicians.

[Terra Alta]

54. K&R

I voted for hope and change not more of the same. I don't feel we, as a country, are better off now than we were a year ago. As an American and a Democrat I am very disappointed.

[Overseas]

56. K&R. /nt

[Goldstein1984]

57. Well Said

Secrecy, the Afghanistan War, the recent involvement in Yemen, increases in targeted extralegal killings with drones, a poor response to Honduras, not pursuing investigations of Bush/Cheney Error war crimes...

I expected more. He has three years to dig himself out of a hole.

[McCamy Taylor]

59. But..but... the corporations are so happy! How can the man be wrong?

The banksters were probably sweating bricks, worrying that they would be hauled before Congress or Grand Juries. Instead, they get to keep foreclosing on houses---and they get to keep their bonuses, too.

The health insurance industry did better than just shutting down HCR like they did under Clinton. They turned HCR into a big insurance give away.

And the nuclear industry has seen concerns over global warming exploited by Obama to get cap and trade that will make his number one sponsor, Exelon, exceedingly rich.

We still torture. We still deny prisoners rights. We still wage foreign wars to protect the economic interests of energy companies (see the Afghanistan natural gas pipeline).

If you dare to criticize the administration, they use the methods of Nixon and Rove to retaliate.

What is not to like?

[apex nerd]

60. One of the best ways to prevent this assumption...

...is to recognize the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Complacent absence of criticism of President Obama is not desirable. This forum would be as dull as a bowling ball if it were just a "We Heart President Obama" club.

Holding your President accountable for his actions is both patriotic and realistic.

DU is an appropriate forum for criticizing any policitian. Democrats should not be off-limits. And no President should ever be off limits.

When making such criticisms, allowing the line between a Democrat and a Republican to be blurred will have a corrosive effect on your credibility in this forum. Requesting "credibility immunity" is only appropriate on a politically conservative forum, and in the mainstream media.

It is reasonable for the most ardent, strident, and passionate members of DU to offer criticism of President Obama and the Dems. Having said that, it is also reasonable for that criticism to be informed by the eight years immediately preceding the Obama administration.

President Obama has been in office a whole... um... 11 months.

And in that span of time, he has failed to... undo virtually all of the damage done by the Bush administration over the course of eight years. And he also failed to single-handedly reform health care.

I didn't expect him to get any of this done in his first year. (which he hasn't completed as of the day this was posted...)

I didn't expect him to be the 21st Century Abraham Lincoln, either.

Any DU member who persists in holding such expectations is not being particularly realistic.

Dissatisfaction with the President has been the natural state for American citizens for most of this country's history. It is time to start embracing that again.

Democrats elect human beings. Republicans elect saviors.

Your dissatisfaction with President Obama is healthy. The right's pathological lack of dissatisfaction with President Bush (and Reagan) is what is unhealthy.

You can criticize the President without sacrificing your credibility. You can even criticize the President and even enhance your credibility. And I don't mean in some hypothetical way. You can do this today in this forum.

Stay healthy. It is okay to be dissatisfied with the President.

(and, don't tell any Republicans... but it was always okay.)

MadHound... you may be angry, but you are not crazy.

You are going to be alright. It has been a hard eight years, but you will get past it.

We all will.

[Jakes Progress]

62. My favorite thing is when you post a complaint

about continuing the war or rewarding the rich or selling out education and you get labeled a right winger. Many don't even know the difference between conservative and liberal. It appears they lack a moral or political center and just roll with the tide.

Some have realistic support ideas that differ only in that they trust that slow change is being made. Those I can disagree with in a measured manner. The others, the clueless are just plain funny.