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Betrayal of the public option like compromises on slavery and will have the same results

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:31 PM
Original message
Betrayal of the public option like compromises on slavery and will have the same results
The health care debate and the Democrats approach to problems essentially since LBJ left office has shown the limits of incrementalism and compromise--especially compromise that takes place before the issue is even offered for a vote.

The problem with incremental change, as the Democrats have proposed with health care reform, is that it can be rolled back over time. We have certainly seen this with alternative energy, climate change, and any number of issues where the Democrats make a modest change, then when the GOP takes control, they roll it way back.

By contrast, radical change has several advantages. First, when you set up a program like Social Security, Medicare, or financial aid for college students, they can be nibbled around the edges by the right, but they can't really be rolled back without massive public pushback.

Also, when you propose a big change, it is easier to get public support BECAUSE THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. When you put together a Rube Goldberg contraption that can't be summed up in a couple of sentences, and will make people's lives easier in a barely perceptible increment, they will neither support or oppose it, and even it does improve things, they will hardly give you credit when election times comes around, because they don't know what the hell you did.

The Democrats failed and failing attempts to mitigate the damage caused by amoral corporations reminds me a lot of how Congress dealt with slavery for decades. They would patch together compromise after compromise that on paper should have made both sides happy but eventually came unravelled, and in one case, led to a mini-civil war in Kansas.

Lincoln was not a radical. He was the last of the incrementalists. He simply said that slavery could not expand into any new states, which would have guaranteed that slavery would eventually die as free states would eventually outnumber slave ones--a nice incremental death.

But slave-holders would not tolerate their economic and political power declining and forced radical action.

So it is with the public option. It was a compromise designed to slowly kill the insurance companies as people flocked to the public option, or possibly even force the insurance companies to change their ways so they could stay in business. But Obama and Congress chose not to do this but instead leave the financial fate and even very lives of Americans in the hands of for-profit, sociopathic corporations, and left us no means of escape.

And just like every other, incremental market based reform, the current bills will be rolled back and reshaped over time so that corporate profits increase, and the benefit to average Americans fade to nothing.

It's time for middle class Americans to stand up and say enough! Politicians in Washington need to fear the public more than they enjoy the paychecks of their corporate patrons. FDR understood that if he did not deliver real, substantial change, America could have well faced a revolution. Democrats in Congress doesn't seem to understand this, but we need to figure out how to make them.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. sorry the dread hand of the unreccers got here first -- guess they wouldn't want slavery to end
...too fast, either. could be, you know, "too radical."

But you're analysis is spot on, Yurbud...
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. thanks
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. I did not see a provision to declare people to be 2/5 human...
I did not see anything about selling people on auction block.

Incremental ism is the way our system has always worked, beginning with the Constitution. Our founding fathers passed it without those pesky bill of rights.

Revolutionary changes simply do not pass the house or the Senate.

We change things one small piece at a time. We do a small amount of good rather than do nothing at all. That is why incrementalism has worked and will always work.

50+ million Americans need this health care bill because they are dying at a rate of 45,000 a year because they have no coverage. Those millions need our help. We do what we can with what we have rather than take pride in failing to get the perfect bill.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. people were sold on an auction block here--the power of life and death were given exclusively
to for-profit corporations unless you are so poor or sick that the corporations don't want you.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. i think the analogy between slavery and the health care death system is an apt one
We the lower classed work our butts off in order to pay off insurance premiums that are sky high.

Then due to the deductible and the 20 percent co pays, we still cannot afford to use said policy.

But hey, at least our efforts and our premiums insure that the more affluent may benefit!

So we kick off this Veil of Tears at an earlier age, with our Social Secuirty Beneifts uncollected, and those bennies are there for the more affluent to use!



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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. The phrase I'm looking for is grotesque hyperbole
Of course, I consider the whole Corporations run the secrete government meme about as accurate and valid as the rightwing teabaggers accusation that everybody on the left are communists who want to turn America into a Communist-Socialist-Facist-Nazi-Muslim dictatorship.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. it's not a secret. You just have to look at who writes the bills, and where pols work after they
leave office. They aint saving whales with Greenpeace. They're cashing in and taking jobs as corporate lobbyists, board members, CEOs, lawyers, consultants and the like and usually the same businesses they carried water for when they were in office.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. "incrementalism has worked -- America's in great fuckin' shape!"
n/t
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. As someone pointed out here yesterday
The notion of passing this and improving on it later like the Social Security example often cited wont work, as SS is exclusively a government program which made working on it in subsequent years relatively easy.

This boondoggle HCR bill is mainly dealing with privately owned corporations, and because of that fixing it later will be nearly impossible.

Maybe if Congress had put a real PO in the HCR bill the opportunity to fix the government portion to overcome the shortfalls of the private insurance would be possible, but allowing that to be used as a way to maintain control over the insurers was likely the main reason it was thrown out, so were back to square one.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. yep
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. as i tried to point out earlier
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 05:53 PM by griffi94
to one of the fix it later chorus. it won't be fixed later unlike ss, and the constitution and the civil rights act and all the other examples being dredged up of things that got done and fixed later that was before our government was a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate america.
so how do we fix it later....after this bill gets passed does the insurance lobby just give up nd go home...or when some amendment gets added to it do they buy a rep and load it down with shit or kill it outright.

and i've seen some of them call the progressives naive.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. MASSIVE analogy fail. n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. it's clear the O/P has no idea of what he/she speaks
What a waste of time. The programs they said were radical were nothing of the sort when initially passed.

Fail.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Massive and bizarre nt
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. MASSIVE reply fail. n/t
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. And the OP is at least the second one today to try that analogy.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R. Interesting analogy. n/t
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Right, so at this point...
...health care form is exactly like slavery, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Samuel L. Gompers, the Boston Molasses Disaster, the Boston Tea Party, the New Deal, the Contract with America, alien invasion, 9/11, the bank bailout, the Iraq War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, The War of 1812, Herbert Hoover, Jesus, Satan, Pokemon, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. LOL!!!! Stop!! hahahahahahahahaha!! n/t
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. amen! people keep saying change has to be incremental
it doesn't. wall street didn't have to be patient.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Wall Street just had to clear their throat to get showered with money
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't think this OP will have any impact on conservadems:
I remember in Jan/Feb, when Obama announced "bipartisanship," some poster started screaming about how "partisanSHIT" kept slavery going--despite the well-known bipartisan Compromises of 1820 and 1850 that--kept slavery going

as conservatives, they live in their own parallel universe, denying reality because it has a liberal bias and so isn't "objective"
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ThePhilosopher04 Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent Post...
and anology!!
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. I stopped reading at your hyperbolic bullshit title. n/t
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. thanks for taking time out from your busy day denying insurance claims.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks for taking time out from your busy day eating puppies.
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