When the needs of the people are as quantifiable

[xchrom]

As they are re: health care -- there is simply no
excuse to craft such shorty legislation. Or put up with backwards notions
like those of Nelson.

It patently ridiculous to have to fight certain battles in
this day and age. When did the middle ages end?
We have to 'hope' on the beneficense of suspect characters tomake this better?
What kind of nuts-ness is that? This isn't the 50's.

Reward industries who have fucked over so
royally?

In the name of 'centrism', or proud incrementalists'--
people have lost their minds.

[Ozymanithrax]

1. The alternative was no bill at all. None. Zero. Nada.

We need 60 votes to beat a filibuster and get the bill to a point where it can get a simple up or down vote. I've followed this process closely, this was what would pass.

This is not a discussion among high minded progressives. It was down and dirty politics that pushed to pass the best bill they could. The alternative of no bill at all is simply not acceptable to 50+ million Americans without health care.

[xchrom]

2. The bill as is is certainly no coversation among

High minded any body.
Brilliant fuckin argument --

[Ozymanithrax]

5. Politics never is....

[izquierdista]

3. Let's see how acceptable the mandate will be

:eyes:

[Ozymanithrax]

4. I look forwad to it.

[shadowknows69]

8. Then you must know you can afford it already.

Because those of us that aren't are scared shitless.

[dflprincess]

6. And the best they could do was sell us out to the insurance companies?

They should have stayed home.

This bill does nothing to help the middle class get health care - it only forces them to continue to buy insurance from the same crooks who broke the system to begin with. And, as was made clear in "Sicko", insurance does not mean access to care.

Whatever happened to "keeping them honest"?

[shadowknows69]

9. Being sold into slavery to insurance companies is not an acceptable solution

[bridgit]

7. I agree, you know that; but remember the TV priceline.com commercial...

With Shatner, where the guy starts talking like Capt. Kirk while setting up vacation plans online, and they're sorta completing each other's sentences, or stepping on them? And the guy's wife comes in and she's all 'why are you talking like that?' and the guys all, "I'm (ala Kirk accent) talking..." and Shatner concludes,

"The language of the deal"

So much time was wasted going in bickering here and I presume elsewhere over whether 'centrists' even belonged in the Dem Party for their collusive ways & means however perceived - while 'the language of the deal', the politics of the deal seems now little researched and so less understood by the way people were taken so off guard. Many thought it would be like walking up to a light switch and flipping it: Voila! And while that appeals to me, others at the table (crazy shits that they were and remain) had other schemes and plans

Whole chunks of HCR, imo, were frittered away or fell back into the sand they were built on when we were seen as remiss in support each other - 'the other' registered our non-support of each other (not really) as *disadvantage us*, so they kept on rolling and by their actions suggest that - we are the sand - our agenda is built upon cause those fuckers are as tough as coffin nails and there's more truth to that than poetry

Whoever goes in to negotiate next time, assuming there is one; needs to be able to read tiny little patterns very very quickly and reply most timely, but then convey & carry points of Progressive concern from the front to the back with the point spread in mind, and...

Become conversationally fluent in 'the language of the deal' I'm just say'n :)

[unblock]

10. money-money-money-muhhhhhney, ... MONEY!

as long as it's big businesses can get away with reaping vast quantities of excess profits and legally dole out a share of those ill-gotten gains to dishonorable politicians willing to protect those profits in exchange for a more firm grip on their office, this will continue.