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Remember in May? The Finance committee was busy arresting single payor advocates...

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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 10:52 PM
Original message
Remember in May? The Finance committee was busy arresting single payor advocates...
Edited on Sat Dec-19-09 10:54 PM by eilen
and there was not a peep from the WH? A mere 2 months later:


Blackstone, Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse and ING Launch Independent Insurance Group (July 9, 2009)

(NEW YORK, NY) — Already among the behemoths of the real estate capital industry, The Blackstone Group, Goldman Sachs, ING and Credit Suisse are branching out into a new field – insurance.

The companies today jointly announced the formation of Insphere Insurance Solutions, Philip J. Hildebrand, a nationally known health industry executive, is CEO of the new group.

Philip J. Hildebrand
Hildebrand says… There are over 30 million middle-income households who are faced with significant financial challenges, including rising unemployment, growing concerns about healthcare inflation, loss of insurance benefits at their workplace, and uncertainty around future of Medicare and Social Security.

Hildebrand says a study by the Life Insurance and Market Research Association (LIMRA) found 44% of the middle market considered themselves under-insured on life insurance. Insuring this group would add $9.5 trillion in insurance and $17 billion in premiums, according to the report.

“We are currently in discussions with a number of leading life, health, long-term care and retirement carriers about our capabilities in reaching small business and the middle market,” says Hildebrand

Blackstone, Goldman Sachs Back New Insurance Agency (Update1)
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
By Hugh Son

July 7 (Bloomberg) -- Blackstone Group LP, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Credit Suisse Group AG are backing a new U.S. firm marketing insurance to small businesses and middle-income individuals.

Insphere Insurance Solutions will sell life, retirement and health products through 3,500 agents when the Dallas-based firm launches in January, the company said in a statement. Funding comes from a $1 billion private equity investment made in 2005 in HealthMarkets Inc., a predecessor firm whose agents will be retrained as the Insphere sales force, said Phillip Hildebrand, chief executive officer of both companies, in an interview.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=as.BRnlVf28Y

I checked the Health Care Blog (www.thehealthcareblog.com) to see what was going on around then:

"July 10, 2009
Has Harry Reid Torpedoed Reform?
By ROGER COLLIER
Health care reform ran into new BIG trouble this week with a series of comments from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

On Tuesday, Reid leapt into the middle of reform negotiations, telling Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus that Democratic leaders had major concerns about the draft Senate Finance bill’s proposed taxation of some health benefits and the exclusion of a strong public plan.

The immediate result was the effective suspension of bipartisan negotiations on the Senate Finance draft, with Republican Senators Chuck Grassley and Orrin Hatch both saying that bill markup would have to be delayed indefinitely until the conflict was resolved."





Words fail me. I have the intense urge to say something immensely clever, however, there is only one concept that is ringing my bells and that is "Everything is connected."
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. I remember it VIVIDLY - it was absolutely DISGUSTING to hear them cackling with laughter

as Baucus called for more Police and made a joke out of it....

It was vile.

And, there was not a WORD from this White House.

That one event summarizes this whole sad, pathetic, sorry episode in American politics.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Yep. And look who supported single payer in overwhelming numbers-nurses and doctors
People who actually provide health care, nurses and doctors, stood up for single payer and we got slapped for it.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. If you'll remember, Obama called Single-Payer "too radical". His exact words.
:eyes:

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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly when was the amendment calling for buying insurance across state lines approved?
Because I would bet that this new "insurance" firm was formed to take advantage of that provision. Every discussion of how this will let the states with the lowest requirements for insurance coverage and less protection for consumers has mentioned Texas as one of those states. Louisiana has been often mentioned, too.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I think in Oct. 2009
However, there has been buzz about it since 2005 in various states such as Arizona.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Texas currently has discretionary clauses
which puts the burden on the policy holder to prove the insurance company has been unreasonable in their decisions.


Texas consumer advocate wants ban on health insurers' blanket clauses
12:00 AM CST on Thursday, December 17, 2009

By TERRENCE STUTZ / The Dallas Morning News
tstutz@dallasnews.com
AUSTIN – The state's insurance consumer advocate is seeking to eliminate the blanket authority of health and disability insurers to decide what their policies cover, a shift that could have a major impact on health insurance in Texas.
Public Insurance Counsel Deeia Beck has asked the state's insurance commissioner to end long-standing provisions in most health plans, called "discretionary" clauses, that give insurers the right to interpret their policies and decide what benefits must be paid.

"Consumers are now at the mercy of health insurers," Beck said.

The health insurance industry strongly opposes such a change. Insurance Commissioner Mike Geeslin has held a hearing on the proposal and is considering whether to move forward.

Twenty-two states have banned the practice, either through state law or new regulations. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners has recommended to its members that the practice be stopped.

"It's hard to defend giving insurance companies this kind of authority, where they have full discretion to interpret ambiguities in their policies," Beck said Wednesday. "No one disputes that an insurance carrier has the first right to make a determination on their claims. But there is a problem in how those decisions are reviewed and whether companies should be allowed to resolve all ambiguities in their favor."

Beck said disagreements typically arise over cancer drugs, mental illness coverage and home-based diabetes treatment. But insurers have the final say, and costs often figure into their decisions.

"Typically, they hire their own in-house physicians or they contract with physicians – who are paid by the insurance carrier – to review the medical records and make a judgment on whether a claim should be paid. It is an inherently unfair process," she said.

Consumers unhappy with their insurer's decision can go to court. But to overturn a decision, the consumer must prove the insurer acted unreasonably, a legal standard that strongly favors the insurer in most cases.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/state/stories/DN-healthcoverage_17tex.ART.State.Edition2.4bc72e1.html


Later in the article

Ben Gonzalez, a spokesman for the Department of Insurance, said the commissioner has a Dec. 28 deadline to decide whether the agency will start writing rules to limit or ban discretionary clauses. If Geeslin opts not to begin rule-making, insurers will retain their unrestricted right to determine benefits.

Consumer advocates see Geeslin, an appointee of Republican Gov. Rick Perry, as leaning toward the industry in his decisions. Health care and insurance, including car and homeowners, are expected to be major topics in next year's state campaigns.

Anyone betting that they will side with the insurers? Will Texas be for insurance agencies as Delaware is for bankers?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is Greatest Page material and needs to be read by EVERY DU'er. I had no idea that
any of this went on--except, of course, throwing out the Single Payer advocates.

". . . would add $9.5 trillion in insurance and $17 billion in premiums" says it all.

If there was ever any doubt in my mind that this was a sellout to the insurance cartel--and there was not much doubt left--it is totally and irrevocably erased.

Rec. Thanks for posting this, eilen.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Timing is everything
Think on it, in mid-June the president appointed the pay-czar. Feinberg. The biggest objections came from AIG. A few weeks later, Insphere Insurance Solutions owned by Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse and Blackstone Group is set up and then they pay out huge bonuses a week later. By December, the biggest TARP recipients cut themselves out of the pay czar's field of influence. Citibank gets big tax breaks and announces the payback of TARP monies in order to avoid oversight. Goldman Sachs has changed the nature of their bonuses; Chrysler avoids the midlevel exec pay cuts d/t that fact they don't pay them half a million to start with and Bank of America also cuts deal to pay off TARP and GM is likely top avoid this as they fall into a singular category of needing to attract a new CEO. Remember in the linked article in the OP that AIG will get no share or business in this new insurance co. that will be open for business in January 2010.

"One insurer whose products Insphere won’t initially market is American International Group Inc., Hildebrand said. The New York-based insurer has taken a federal bailout valued at $182.5 billion and reported about $100 billion in net losses last year after bad bets tied to housing markets."
“They’re going through some really tough times right now, and our agents have to deliver products from companies that are very solid and rated well that don’t have a lot of scrutiny around them,” he said."

Which brings me to my conjecture on why the hell is it so important to pass this health care bill by Christmas 2009? So I wonder, what is the deal with AIG-- are they targeted for takedown in the next year or is the proposed health insurance mandates expected to lift their boats while investment/insurance lines (such as American General Life) are court ordered to separate or be sold off? If their straight insurance wing is sold off-- to whom may be a likely candidate to acquire them? I have some guesses. Considering AIG's insurance lines are already licensed to be sold in Texas.

And, speaking of derivatives, cdo's etc.-- those financial side bets that nearly broke down the economy. FireDogLake posted a white paper written by Goldman Sachs-- is bearish on healthcare reform based on their analysis. Seems to me their outlook would make going forward with Insphere a poor investment. (http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/13/goldman-sachs-insurance-stocks-would-drop-36-by-2019-with-house-public-option/) Now why would G-S release analysis that may drive down the share values of insurance companies like AIG?

"Goldman Sachs: Insurance Stocks Would Drop 36% By 2019 With House Public Option
By: Jane Hamsher Friday November 13, 2009 7:36 am
Pretty interesting. Goldman Sachs evaluates the impact of the Finance Committee health care bill, the House bill and no bill on the value of insurance stocks over the next 10 years. They focused on the impact of Wall Street’s biggest insurance stocks: Aetna, UnitedHealth, WellPoint, CIGNA and Humana." ed--and perhaps American General Life?).


Originally published Wednesday, July 15, 2009 at 12:00 AM

Comments (8) E-mail article Print view Share
this was July 15, 2009
Goldman Sachs bonus bonanza
Even on Wall Street, the land of six- and seven-figure incomes, jaws dropped at the news Tuesday: After all that federal aid, a resurgent...

By The New York Times
Related
Back to big profits for Wall Street powerhouse
NEW YORK — Even on Wall Street, the land of six- and seven-figure incomes, jaws dropped at the news Tuesday: After all that federal aid, a resurgent Goldman Sachs is on course to distribute bonuses that could rival the record paydays of the heady bull-market years.

Goldman posted the richest quarterly profit in its 140-year history and, to the envy of its rivals, announced it had earmarked $11.4 billion so far this year to compensate its workers.

At that rate, Goldman workers could, on average, earn roughly $770,000 each this year — or nearly what they did at the height of the boom.

Senior Goldman executives and bankers would be paid considerably more. Only three years ago, Goldman paid more than 50 employees above $20 million each. In 2007, CEO Lloyd Blankfein collected one of the biggest bonuses in corporate history.

The latest headline results — $3.44 billion in profit during its second quarter — were powered by earnings from the bank's secretive trading operations and exceeded even the most optimistic predictions.


July 22, 2009-- from Goldman Sach's own website

Goldman Sachs Pays $1.1 Billion to Redeem TARP Warrants
July 22, 2009
US Taxpayers Make 23 Percent Return

New York, NY July 22, 2009 - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. (NYSE: GS) announced today that it has redeemed the warrants the U.S. government received in connection with its investment in the firm through the TARP’s Capital Purchase Program at $1.1 billion, the full value the U.S. Treasury Department has determined.

While there are a number of ways to value the warrants, including through a public auction, we believe that in the context of the extraordinary actions taken by the government to help stabilize the financial system, this valuation of the warrants represents full and fair value.

In June, Goldman Sachs repaid the U.S. Treasury’s investment of $10 billion, and during the eight months of the investment, the firm paid $318 million in preferred dividends. We are pleased that the payment of the dividends and the redemption of the warrants, which total $1.418 billion, represent an annualized return of 23 percent for US taxpayers.

“This return is reflective of the government’s assistance, which benefitted the financial system, our firm and our shareholders,” said Lloyd C. Blankfein, Chairman and CEO. “We are grateful for the government efforts and are pleased that this additional money can be used by the government to revitalize the economy, a priority in which we all have a common stake.”

Dec. 11, 2009:

Hoping to avert heat from pending “say on pay” legislation in Washington, the top 30 executives at Goldman Sachs (GS: 163.19 +2.26 +1.40%) will receive their bonuses this year in a special form of company stock. Execs receiving the shares would not be able to sell them for five years, the banking giant said yesterday (Thursday). Still, the announcements cover a miniscule number of Goldman’s almost 32,000 employees, and it doesn’t cover the company’s top revenue generators. Additionally, the Goldman’s board of directors approved a “say on pay” policy, which will give shareholders an advisory vote on executive compensation. “We believe our compensation policies are the strongest in our industry and ensure that compensation accurately reflects the firm’s performance and incentivizes behavior that is in the public’s and our shareholders’ best interests,” said Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein.

Remember the same day article posted on Politico:

'Pay czar' Kenneth Feinberg caps pay of midlevel executives


My comment-- would this be company stock or interest in the insurance company based in Houston?


By EAMON JAVERS | 12/11/09 12:10 PM EST
Text Size-+reset

Kenneth Feinberg, the nation's 'pay czar,' is at it again -- and this time, midlevel executives at bailed-out firms are getting a pay cut.

The nation’s “pay czar” is at it again Friday, and this time, midlevel executives at bailed-out firms are getting a pay cut.

Fewer than 10 of 450 employees will be allowed to earn more than $500,000 per year, according to a source familiar with the plan, which covers six firms that received federal bailout funds.

Kenneth Feinberg, the special master for TARP executive compensation, will release the next phase of his determinations about pay for those executives Friday, and he’s expected to take a tough stance.

Here is Reuters on the same date: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BA2RT20091211
WASHINGTON/NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. pay czar on Friday expanded a crackdown on pay packages at four companies rescued with taxpayer money, limiting most cash salaries at $500,000 for a second tier of top earners.

The Treasury Department's Kenneth Feinberg issued the new limits amid outcries from some companies on a government lifeline that they cannot retain or attract key employees, sending the firms racing for a bailout exit.

He set the compensation structures for the 26th through 100th highest-paid employees at four firms: Citigroup Inc, American International Group, General Motors Co, and GMAC.

Chrysler and Chrysler Financial were exempted during this round of rulings because total pay for their second-tier executives is already under $500,000.
...
Feinberg's pay cap applies only to the final weeks of 2009 and he will not claw back money already paid. The limits will affect the large bonuses typically paid at the end of the year. Also, the rulings will be the baseline for 2010 compensation.

The new plan also mandated that a majority of total compensation will not be released to an executive for three years. In most cases, at least 50 percent of compensation must be long-term stock awards, according to Feinberg.

Further, overall cash is limited in most cases to 45 percent of the total and all other pay must be in company stock.


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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. This should be an OP all its own. Title: Some background on healthcare collusion.
Or at least that would be my title.

I think very few of us are aware of this.

Those fuckers are miles ahead of us and our governmental representatives on planning how to get ALL the money and pay NO taxes.

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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It's scary how coordinated it all is.
I guess they are real professionals.

I'll repost this as an OP as you describe if you believe it will help.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. I think it's worth a try, eilen. However, timing is important. I'm pretty sure it will die
on the vine if you post it now or early in the morning. My guess is early evening on a week night is best. But it's only a guess.

Yes, they are professionals. It's WHAT THEY DO. And they've been doing it for many years and hiring the best minds to engineer it. They think that they are smarter than the rest of us and they may very well be, but I don't like the way they do business, so I'm doing what I can to expose them and shut the bastards down.


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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely incredible. nt
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. A speculative euphoria equalled only by the goldrush surrounding Blackwater mercenary services
I bet we'll hear an announcement from Halliburton too, once the ink is dry. They are the past masters of bilking the govt. through COST PLUS PRICING, which is the basis of the new Mandatory Insurance regime, as it was for military contractors in Iraq.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R!
Edited on Sat Dec-19-09 11:21 PM by pleah
to add: I put this on FB and Twitter.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks knr nt
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R Thanks for posting. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
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WT Fuheck Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. Single payer is a scheme put forth by damned liberal fringe socialist far-left wacko
progressive idiot traitor unamerican terrorist commies





...whom we need to win again in 2012.


(By then, even Obama will sack up enough to ditch Rahm, so it won't be Bos Rahm's problem anymore. He'll be rolling in Goldman Sachs-United Healthcare dough by then.)
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. What Do YOU Mean By That??? What Liberal Socialist Far-Left Wacko?
Are you calling Obama this? He isn't a left winger in any way, shape or form! He looks like a sell out if I'm reading what I read correctly!

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOO confused!!

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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. K&R. nm
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. you got it! nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. This is WORSE than the old boss.
The Old Boss (Republicans) could have NEVER gotten away with forcing every American to BUY an invisible product every year from For Profit corporations that manufacture NOTHING, and create NO wealth...AND use the IRS as the Collection Agency.

The Republicans could have NEVER even dreamed of THAT.
THAT takes a "Centrist" Democrat.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. WHAT Does This Mean Other Than We're Screwed?? It Looks Like
we can't stop this from happening and never could! Are we DONE, I mean COOKED FOR SURE?? Nothing left but to roll over and die or something!

I need help, I'm getting really nauseous!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. MUST READ
K&R
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Blackstone, Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse and ING: Bi-partisan health insurance reform
...
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. The Blackstone Group, Goldman Sachs...are branching out into a new field – insurance.
check-
mate.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Yup.. last piece of the puzzle.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. I had the "pleasure" of working for a hotel owned by the Blackstone Group...
...talk about indentured servitude....

Nickle and dime brow-beating ,obnoxious ,self-righteous hypocrite MF'ers.

All , of course, while the abuse was condoned and anointed by current Democorps and Repulicorps leaders as "good corporate policy".

The perfect image of Blackstone Management is Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus standing there with that shit-eating smirk on their face.


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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
21. K & R
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. This makes me physically ill
Whatever happened to too big to fail?

I don't even begin to suggest I understand much of this, but I've enough common sense to know it all sounds fishy.

Seems to me this is back room conspired organized crime legitimized by our gov't; I'd rather see a RICO investigation.

:grr:



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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. k & r
eom
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. I saw this coming
Not the details, but the base principle:

The Housing Bubble is over. Obama needed to either do FDR type programs to get everyone back to work, or they needed a new bubble.

New Bubble just around the corner. The Top 1% must be drooling.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R. The fix was in from the start.
Damn, it's discouraging how thoroughly we got conned.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Of course they are. THe mandate is coming . There's money to be made
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 02:22 PM by walldude
off the backs of working people. Again. The fucking jackals are lining up to get a piece of the pie... Another piece of the puzzle falls into place.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Considering that a large number of the administration staff are
Goldman Sachs alumni, why am I not surprised.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
33. C'mon one more rec for the front page..
This is big, it needs to be up front. Someone rec this!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. Capitalism is crime -- capitalism is suicidal . .. for humanity and the planet --
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm No Financial Guru, Don't Even Know What ALL This Means... It's
waaaaaay too complicated to wrap my head around. What I think I'm seeing is that even the OBAMA Election was part of the WHOLE DEAL!!

Am I wrong on this, am I missing the point? If I'm missing this, please set me straight. What will happen to Medicare we have now? I think I want to VOMIT, but I'm not sure that's what this means.

Can SOMEONE explain some of this, oh please, before I have a REAL serious "panic attack!"
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. This Needs A Kick!! I Need Some Answers!
I just had to take some meds to calm me down. I'm literally dizzy and lightheaded! Guess I'll go lay down to calm my hyperventilation!

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Everything is connected. Which has led to some serious questions about why Goldman Sachs is in favor
of Cap and Trade.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I Saw Morgan Stanley's Name In There Too! What About Them??
They have my IRA!! Guess that' why it's been going up, or what??

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I'm sure Goldman is not alone. It's beyond my expertise to figure out how it will
work but best I can figure out about it the financial institutes will act as something akin to brokers in the deal and this could well be our next bubble.
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Go look at Markit.com Markit services press releases.
It's partnered with the banks ( you don't have to ask ). New service is to provide a platform on which to trade carbon units.

They are so far ahead in this game, the Congress just writes what they tell them.

Do I need to mention Copenhagen and ......
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Yep. Welcome to the next bubble, huh? Is that what we're looking at? nt
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Mega bubble.
This is the new wealth order. Cap and trade, carbon credits, third world financing, corporate/NGO partnerships, alternative energy, CDS on financing (bonds-debt) for trade zones; this is the world according to Gld Sak and their partners.

They have almost all of it in place. Media, IT, Finance, and a lot of the key players in their pocket. Just waiting for the treaty and the laws.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
43. Well, this seems like undeniable proof
that the current Senate bill is what the administration was shooting for all along. The whole HCR "debate" has been for show - Broadway and Hollywood couldn't dream of comparing to the theatrical performance in DC.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. They are at least three years ahead of us and about to declare victory
and we are blindly reacting to what happened yesterday.

We lose. again.
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DonkeyHoTay Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Keep this thread bumped!
+1 rec
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Like you, I don't know what to say, other than this being a disgrace and
I also believe everything is connected.:puke:


Thanks for the thread, eilen.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. OMG...this is, indeed, very bad news. It's almost too much to deal with.
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 06:10 PM by KoKo
It's worse than we imagined. And, so many Americans are clueless about the connection.

We have to hope that the rot is starting to "float" and it's all coming out. There's enough outrage about the "Bail Outs" that we have some good Financial Bloggers on our side who will pick this up and run with it. We aren't alone out here...it's just getting it all together for the American People to understand. I had high hopes for Obama's FCC in working to reform our Right Wing Corporate Media. Let's see if his FCC comes in and does an Anti-Trust against the Comcast buyout of GE's interests. If we don't have a Media reporting these connections then I'm afraid we are in for some dark times, indeed. Worse than the Bush years...because the Bush years of corruption have never been prosecuted. If Obama is the person we thought he was ...this will all be exposed and prosecuted to the MAX.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. This really hints at the fact that Rahm et al have been figuring exactly how the
Final Bill would look way way back in Febrruary or March.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
50. Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate Were the Top Donors In 2008
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/sectorall.php?cycle=2008


And they spread it to both party's candidates, but especially to Obama.

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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
52. just say no
unless you absolutely need it to buy meds, do not buy health insurance once this crap deal goes through. simply refuse to buy. The mandate apparently has no teeth. I was going to pay the fine, but I saw on another thread that it appears the worst they can do is put it on your credit report. The IRS can't come after you, your wages, or your home.

Just say no. Take care of yourself. Refuse to buy health insurance. Pay out of pocket. If enough people refuse to buy a nonexistant product, then they lose.

I've had health insurance in my life and been left to die when I was septic and needed antibiotics. And no health insurance and cared for with dignity by a top notch doctor with double MDs, one western and one in Ayurvedic. He worked for the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, treated George Harrison, Liz Taylor and other celebs. He charged no more than the shit regular doctor. But where she screamed at me and didn't give me the time of day, with him I had a 1+ hour exam where taking your pulse is 30 minutes (because they learned to feel an enormous amount beyond beats/minute). Where the ordinary doctor/bitch didn't even examine me, he spent over an hour with me, ordered appropriate lab tests, prescribed appropriate treatment....and charged the same amount she did.

There are good doctors out there who will see you for cash and do a better job than the ones caught in the insurance machinery.

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