Blogger conference call with Dean, Wendell Potter, and Mike Lux..

[madfloridian]

Dean: 56% of Dems Say If There's No Public Option, Drop The Mandate

Just got off another blogger conference call, this time with Howard Dean, former CIGNA exec Wendell Potter, and Mike Lux. Dean announced the results of a DFA poll. The Senate cloture vote is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. on Christmas Eve, he said. Dr. Dean opened the call by saying "this bill has always been a giveaway to the insurance industry, but we were willing to compromise" to get the public option.

He recapped all the compromises we made: "We wanted single payer, but that was taken off the table early on. That was a mistake. We had to get to the place where we had health insurance for all Americans." But now, he said, there's no public option, and no Medicare option.

"You're forced to pay money to an insurance company or get fined $750 by your government, while 27% of your money goes to CEOs who are flying around in these private jets," he said.

..."He said the real bad stuff in the Senate bill was
"hidden in the weeds, so you can’t find it."

Dr. Dean brushed aside the "Get a bill, any bill" mentality in Washington. "Any legislation passed will have a huge impact on American healthcare. If they can’t fix it, it shouldn’t pass."

Wendell Potter, former CIGNA executive and reform activist, said the insurance industry got "every single thing they wanted" in the Senate bill.

"There's no individual mandate, no public option. There's also three words, 'benefit design flexibility' in Senate bill – that means the freedom to design plans that will pass more and more of us into ranks of the underinsured - and charge up to 22% of income if someone gets sick," he said.

In Massachusetts, they have a 2 to 1 premium ratio, "and they're already having trouble finding affordable, adequate insurance. The industry wants to shift even more costs to individuals and families, having the government pay them half a trillion dollars. The Senate bill meets every one of their requirements," Potter said.

There is much more at the link.

And just think, the final touch it needed was an anti-women section added. Just the thing to warm the heart.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. The voices that should be heeded are being ignored by DC.

I thought we were at least going to get kissed before we got screwed....

[WhiteTara]

4. you must be new in politics

there are never any kisses...but the call to bend over is very loud!

[BrklynLiberal]

6. I guess I had hoped things would be different after November 08. How naive of me.

[WhiteTara]

68. I'm sorry it broke your heart

but we must stay in the battle or it really is all over.

[madfloridian]

2. Do NOT miss this statement by Potter

"There's no individual mandate, no public option. There's also three words, 'benefit design flexibility' in Senate bill – that means the freedom to design plans that will pass more and more of us into ranks of the underinsured - and charge up to 22% of income if someone gets sick," he said."

[Jefferson23]

48. Chilling words, no doubt about it. One thing that Dean said about

not being able to see how bad the bill is, as it is hidden well. That is a deep concern for obvious reasons, and the push to pass this before years end is understandable from a strategic standpoint. How can we get ALL those small hidden details out to the general public I don't know, especially when you consider the MSM gives little to no scrutiny to this issue. But if that were possible, perhaps there would still be a chance to force their hand to at least drop the mandate.

[defendandprotect]

57. OK . . . we didn't come out for health care single payer... now we have to come out AGAINST

this health care DEFORM?

How could anyone not understand that candidates who are pre-bribed and pre-owned

with corporate money are no longer public servants to be trusted??????????????????

The important thing now is to stay together -- understand that this is an overwhelmingly

liberal nation -- and that we need a Plan B, cause what we've been doing for 40 years

has only mvoed us further into the jaws of corporatism/fascism!!!

Democratic voters are being told they are irrevelant -- powerless.

What they fear most is the power of the powerless!!!

They fear that DEAN has awakened the public -- and they need everything to be very

quiet in order to keep this corporate crap going forward!

[Jefferson23]

62. Oh I agree with you completely, they want to shut up Dean asap.

I will keep fighting no matter what, have written e-mails, called etc. Perhaps it was a mistake not to have anticpated what is happening and we should have been organized for a planned march on D.C. ready to counter this horrendous bill.

[defendandprotect]

64. Thank you . . . I should not have given any suggestion that

individuals are to blame --

It's the psychology -- maybe anti-conspiracy states of mind. I don't know.

Certainly, we have been told in our schools that democracy and capitalism were

synonymous -- while the truth is that capitalism is capable of destroying democracy.

We were told more than 40 years ago that corporations were buying our govenrment,

our legislators. Otoh, our "free press" continues to ignore these subjects and so

it's really just trickle-down info to many!!!

May the New Year bring us all greater wisdom -- !!

:)

[KoKo]

63. +1

[laughingliberal]

3. Entire link should be 'must read' for those thinking this is better than nothing

I was already of the opinion it was worse than the current disastrous system. And it's worse than I thought. I knew MA was having a problem with their similar plan but did not know there multiplier was limited to 2 X. And our Senate bill will allow 3 X. "Design flexibility?" Do know what that means, didn't know it was in there.

Crap! I know they are all being pounded to vote for it but is there a group in the progressive caucus who has what it takes to stand firm? Anyone?

[mzmolly]

5. "If they can’t fix it, it shouldn’t pass.: ~ Howard Dean

Let us hope the bill is improved when it's merged with the house version.

[madfloridian]

7. Potter and Dean remind us to think "what if".

"I asked about the plans to increase state authority to regulate insurers that were discussed in Wednesday's White House call, and both Dr. Dean and Potter cautioned against it.

"You have to ask this question: What would George Bush do in this situation? Nobody’s thinking about what will happen 15 years from now," Dr. Dean said.

"Who will be writing the regulations? How will this be handled when there’s a Republican administration?" Potter said.

Unintended consequences – having to buy insurance, have to have the ability to market products to keep people underinsured. Have to buy products they don’t want to buy, often for inadequate coverage."

[midnight]

8. Insurance co. got everything they wanted, and the consumer got a mandate to

purchase services they have no choice over, or have a visit with the irs.

[NJmaverick]

9. It must be a blast to be able to speak with out the burdens that come from being in charge

[PassingFair]

10. When the "real leaders" WON'T speak out...someone HAS to.

But yea team!

[NJmaverick]

11. The Dean team?

[PassingFair]

16. No, yours.

Guess you need a "win", even if it
is a net loss for the country.

[NJmaverick]

17. Oh I wasn't sure which team you were talking about

thanks for clearing that up

[ima_sinnic]

13. what is your problem?

just because YOU have no problem with flushing your money down the toilet doesn't mean any of us have to accept it.

[NJmaverick]

14. I have a problem with flushing people's lives down the drain

40,000+ every year

[ima_sinnic]

20. but you have no problem with sending them to debtors' prison?

I'm one of the uninsured, and you certainly do NOT speak for me, and I resent your willingness to consign me to huge payments for worthless "insurance" that will only become more expensive if I use it.
I want health care, not massive debt and forced contribution to some greedy CEO's wallet. So thanks for your "concern." I think the penalties for not indenturing myself to an insurance company might be more affordable, so at least lobby for affordable payments, okay? Actually, thinking about it further, I think jail time would be better for me.

[laughingliberal]

22. This is the crux of it. Lots of nice Romney-style junk policies that cost much and cover little

The shift will be from many dying without insurance to many dying with insurance but no coverage. No slowing of medical bankruptcies I can see, either.

[glinda]

52. My current insurance puts me right in that category now. It will get even worse.

[NJmaverick]

25. Do you honestly think that is going to happen?

[ima_sinnic]

32. that is the crux of the problem that you don't seem to "get"

there is nothing to stop the scenario I describe, there is nothing in the bill to regulate insurance co's, afaik.

[Vinnie From Indy]

61. You appear to be a left-wing dittohead.

You use that phrase over and over as though it is some sort of magic cloak of invincibility in this debate. You have been shown repeatedly by many DU'ers that the language of this bill does nothing to restrain insurance companies from circumventing the provisions that you claim will save 40,000 lives each year. It is my hope that you are still around on DU in the years to come when the reports come rolling in that 40,000. people are STILL dying because they have no access to treatment.

To be honest, your tourette-like repetition of this phrase is no different in my mind than the mindless repetition of talking points made by followers of Rush Limbaugh in regard to the policies of GW Smirky Bush.

Yeah, your as mavericky as an old plow horse.

[ima_sinnic]

67. self-delete

responded to wrong poster

[laughingliberal]

19. Yes, I'm sure MLK found it very freeing nt

[NJmaverick]

26. I'm not sure I am comfortable with the comparison of Dean to MLK

[laughingliberal]

27. I'm not sure our purpose should always be to make others comfortable

And my parents marched with Dr. King and raised me on the principles for which he stood. For that matter I'll invoke my father who was not elected to anything but still endured much hardship and danger to stand for the rights of others. It is absolutely against everything I thought America stands for to suggest those not elected to public office have no voice in the process. As Americans we all have a right to have our voices heard. Or shall we only listen, now, to those elected to office. How well would that have worked when the Republicans held the White House and the majorities in Congress? Or shall it only be those elected to office in our party to whom we should listen? And if they disagree, how shall we choose which ones get our attention?

[NJmaverick]

28. I am not comfortable because MLK was a great man that accomplished many great things

and I think we diminish that by using him and what he did for political points.

[madfloridian]

29. I am not comfortable with a party that sells out women's rights...

and calls it necessary to getting the bill passed.

I am not comfortable with my party not being honest about some of the really bad stuff in the bill.

[NJmaverick]

30. I don't like those measures, but let me ask you something

What rights does a woman have today, that she will not have after the bill is passed?

[madfloridian]

31. You have to be kidding to ask that.

[NJmaverick]

33. No, I am not. While the bill may not cover abortions, it's my understanding

that while there may not be increased access, there is not a decrease in access. In other words those that could get them now can still get them.

[madfloridian]

36. How thoughtful was that of the Democrats?

[NJmaverick]

37. Like I said before I don't like it, but on the other hand I am not sure it's proper to say they are

taking away rights.

[defendandprotect]

58. Right , but where have women's organizations like NOW been in all of this??

They've been continuing over decades to back the Democrats though it was plain

that they were being moved further and further to the right!

Where was NOW in regard to health care which is essential to women and families?

Did they call voters out -- not that I noticed?

Liberals and progressives need to come together to respond to this -- what we've

been doing for the past 40 years in response to corporatism/fascism isn't working!!!

This is an overwhelmingly liberal nation --- and the proof of that is how much control

over "free press, publications, TV/radio" the right wing needs in order to keep their

deceptions going.

And it's what Obama and Biden and corproates fear most about DEAN . . . that he has the

power to wake up the public!!!

[ima_sinnic]

34. yet he spoke out "without the burden of being in charge"

you respect MLK but diss Howard Dean yet in a way they were on parallel and risky missions--MLK standing up for unrepresented people, and Howard Dean also, both with really everything to lose.
As a progressive, I am thankful for Dean's courage in resisting the humongous Democratic Party to which he has been loyal and committed his entire life. He could have said nothing and just gone along to get along, making insider brownie points with an eye to joining a future Democratic administration, or running for Congress with the support of party insiders, yet he does not include that in his calculus. He is of the highest principles.

[NJmaverick]

35. Yes he did, but so did many that were a negative influence. You don't see me bringing up

Jerry Falwell and his so called moral majority, because just being free of leadership burden is not enough for a good comparison.

[ima_sinnic]

38. well, I thought your point was that Dean could say whatever he wanted

because he didn't have the "burden of being in charge."
So now I'm not really sure what your point was.

[NJmaverick]

44. Yes it is, but your counter point could have just as easily have been Jerry instead of MLK

[laughingliberal]

47. Here's how this can work. I can listen to Dr.Dean. I can listent to the White House spokespeople

I can read the bill for myself. I can evaluate the information from the various positions and stack it up against what I read for myself, put it in a blender with my experience dealing with health insurance companies & my knowledge of patient care and I can pretty well decide for myself who is more accurately portraying the ultimate effects of the bill.

Dr. Dean is useful for those who are swallowing down the administration's talking points who are not seeing the holes in their arguments and who have no idea when they hear the word "affordable" what our government deams is affordable for us working stiffs out here. Eyes wide open and still want this bill? Fine. Going in believing the spin without being aware of the significant, deadly pitfalls? Not smart.

[laughingliberal]

40. My parents worked with Dr. King. What he did was stand up against the status quo and the accepted

order of things and spoke for those who could not speak for themselves. What he did was give a voice to those to whom no one was listening. What he did was worked and fought to push a country that wasn't quite ready for it to the left until our leaders could no longer avoid the message. It started somewhere. I'm sure there were those at the beginning of his journey who would have asked, "Who is this man that we should listen to him?" And speaking out against our leaders when they are in the wrong or raising a dissenting voice in the face of the political attack machines is an act of courage. Dr Dean is not obligated to speak up for us. I have no doubt he has career options far more comfortable. He has been a part of our party and is responsible for many of the gains we have seen in the past years. Denying the validity of the voices of those who are not holding public office diminishes Dr. King by minimizing the voice of those who attempt to speak for us from outside the hallowed halls of government. And he would be the first to stand up to anyone who suggested that the act of speaking up against the powerful is meaningless. Here's a link to the Democratic Party website. You'll notice there is a banner there titled "50 State Strategy." That was Dr. Dean's brainchild and was considered "fucking stupid" by the head of the current administration's attack dog. He stood up to the powerful for the good of our party then and he was right. He has every right to be heard in this debate.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

[coti]

54. Absolutely outstanding post. nt

[JetCityLiberal]

70. You are all about "I"

"you" got yours is all over your posts.

As always.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

12. Burn up the lines this week

telephone- e-mail everyday- if close to an office make a courtesy call.

[laughingliberal]

21. Contact everyone you can. Best bet is those of you with a rep in the Progressive Caucus in the House

Caucus Member List
Friday February 20, 2009
Co-Chairs
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)

Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Hon. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)

Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)

House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
Hon. Earl Blumenauer (OR-03)
Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
Hon. Judy Chu (CA-32)
Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
Hon. Alcee Hastings (FL-23)
Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
Hon. Eric Massa (NY-29)
Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Hon. Jim Moran (VA-08)
Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
Hon. Frank Pallone (NJ-06)
Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
Hon. Jared Polis (CO-02)
Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-39)
Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

[Generator]

15. Christmas eve?

On a side note-Obama is the Grinch. Honestly, I know they take long breaks and deserve to work more than they do- but they have to vote on Christmas eve just so Obama can get what he wants? And it's not even a decent bill.

[Dinger]

18. If This Goes Through As Is, My Vote Goes Too

Anyone who supports real health reform, however, gets my vote. Fuck this shit.

[MissDeeds]

65. +1 n/t

[madfloridian]

23. Ever since Dean spoke out last week...Senate Dems LOVE the bill.

They are mostly speaking out passionately for it now. Before most were not.

Guess they know....I was going to say something about bread and butter...but never mind.

[madfloridian]

24. Wendell Potter's creds. Chris Matthews' spin caused him to speak out.

I post this because the party leaders are out to discredit Dean. So maybe some will believe Potter.

He heard Chris Matthew one night saying that insurance companies wanted to help with reform.

The Making of a Health-Care Whistle-Blower

The former head of corporate communications for health-insurance giant Cigna, Potter turned against his old colleagues in June to testify before a congressional committee about what he viewed as the health-insurance industry's "duplicitous" behavior in the current health-reform debate. In his testimony, Potter outlined specific techniques insurers employ to "dump the sick" and protect stock price at all costs. His testimony was logical, specific and convincing, but that's only part of what makes Wendell Potter a perfect turncoat in the eyes of the pro-reform movement.

...."Potter's moment of decision came one evening earlier this year when he was watching MSNBC's Chris Matthews talk about how "the cosmos has shifted" this time around, that the health-insurance industry was at the negotiating table and on board with reform. Potter thought to himself, "Oh, jeez, Chris. Give me a break." Potter, who retired from Cigna in May 2008 after he became disillusioned with the for-profit health-insurance industry, decided to end his silence.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1920893,00.html#ixzz0aBBApJPL

[Jefferson23]

50. I hate the way Dean is being smeared, and Potter points out what we

already know, the absurdity the health insurance industry would be on board for reform??? Not in my life time! Nice spin there Matthews.

KILL THIS DAMN BILL

[madfloridian]

51. The smearing is not just of Dean. It is putting those who oppose the bill

in their place. It's a shame.

Even Joe Biden wrote an op ed today disagreeing with Dean.

[berni_mccoy]

39. Actually those 3 words are not in the bill. I just searched and don't see it

Can anyone understand what he was talking about on this?

And was Potter saying there is *no* mandate? There still is an individual mandate in the bill.

[madfloridian]

41. There is still a mandate.

I copied pasted from C & L, but he probably said "a" mandate but no public option. As to the other 3 words, I don't know. The conference call was today, and Potter seems up to date.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

43. Found this on google:

"ARLINGTON, Va. (Dec. 8) Retail business leaders are fretting over provisions in the health-reform package now being hotly debated in the Senate, fearing the measure could raise their operating costs and drive many beneficiaries from the plans they know and like.

In a letter sent Tuesday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., the Retail Industry Leaders Association voiced alarm that healthcare-reform legislation could exacerbate many of the economic and health coverage problems Congress and the White House are trying to confront. The group asked Reid to consider changing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to ease its impact on employers and their health plan members.

Among RILA’s chief concerns: that the bill, if passed as written, “would shift costs on to employers to pay for a public plan, reduce benefit design flexibility and innovation and force employers to enroll new employees within 30 days of hire.” The Senate measure, added the group’s SVP government affairs, John Emling, “could undermine economic recovery, cost more jobs for the retail industry and drive employees from the health care plans they currently know and like.”

http://drugstorenews.com/story.aspx?id=125233&menuid=333

He also said it in Sept.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8164

"Private insurers “want to have ‘benefit design flexibility.’ Those are three very worrisome words,” Potter said at a briefing arranged by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank. “By being able to have benefit design flexibility, they will be able to design plans that are so limited that more and more people will be in the ranks of the uninsured.”

May be there, but not in so many words.

[IndianaGreen]

42. Kick n/t

:kick:

[mother earth]

45. This is damned outrageous, must reading doesn't begin to

cover it. K & R, there's got to be a deafening outcry. KILL THE BILL!

[Laelth]

46. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bertman]

49. Rec and kick.

[democrank]

53. K & R

Kill this bill.

[Norrin Radd]

55. kr

[Le Taz Hot]

56. Only $750.00 a year to NOT

buy worthless health insurance I can't afford in the first place? That's beginning to sound like a pretty good deal. OTOH, if MILLIONS of us refused to opt into government-mandated for-profit insurance that doesn't cover anything and refused to pay the $750.00 what are they going to do? Throw all of us in prison? Hmmm. Must ponder this awhile.

[democracy1st]

59. K & R

[Mari333]

60. knr

[EFerrari]

66. K&R

[juno jones]

69. I can't believe I missed this!

Kick!