Murtha was right. We cannot continue fighting in Iraq without a DRAFT...

[Blackhatjack]

Regardless of where the Pentagon Brass comes down on the issue of the 'surge', there is one undeniable fact they know --the United States CANNOT maintain and continue fighting in Iraq without a draft.

WE have already called up the National Guard, Reserves, Individual Ready Reserves, for multiple tours of duty. We have sent injured soldiers back to Iraq. We have raised economic incentives to potential recruits to such a high level that just adding more money to the incentive offer is unlikely to make a difference.

AND we are not just 'surging' a few troops, we are surging tens of thousands of troops to the highest levels of troop totals we have even had in Iraq.

AND we have given up on training Iraqi forces so that we can reduce our troop levels and one day leave.

Troop deaths and injuries are rising to the highest levels we have every experienced since we invaded Iraq. And yet we are extending the tours of duty for ALL troops in Iraq from 12 mos to 15 mos with shorter breaks from fighting at home.

It is obvious. It is undeniable. It cannot be sustained without a DRAFT.

The handwriting is on the wall, and cannot be ignored any longer.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Yes let's commit political suicide for the next 30 years! nt.

[Blackhatjack]

3. You misunderstand, Murtha doesn't want a draft --but that is the only way to sustain this disaster

We need to be four square against a Draft.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. We need to be four square against the war.

Any proposition that suggests that the war can be won or sustained or continued is wrong.

[Monkeyman]

4. Yep

[Blackhatjack]

2. The 2006 election was about the war, the 2008 election will be about a Draft...

... we are already engaging this issue on the ground and in Congress, the MSM will have to address it soon --no matter how corrupt they are in supporting this Administration.

[tiptoe]

5. Draft == a great gift for neocons & Norquist: continued Treasury drain plus prospect of more wars.

"The gift that keeps on giving."

Hijacked Republicans

...
This administration is perhaps the most radical administration in a century...There are three extreme factions...The second extreme faction is the neoconservative wing of the administration, the one currently responsible for implementing the Bush Doctrine of preemptive war. They believe in a role for ‘total war’ in the establishment of what amounts to a new American empire; they are overt about this and use these words themselves. They held these beliefs way before 9/11; in fact they have writings stating the need for something like 9/11 to happen so that they could implement their vision.
...
The faction in the administration that authored the Bush Doctrine of preemptive war is one of the most radical--the neoconservatives. They don’t for the most part even come from very deep within the Republican tradition, being mostly ex-liberals who have converted to an idealistic vision of world domination through military force.

"No stages. This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq... this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war ...our children will sing great songs about us years from now."
Richard Perle, Council on Security Policy

"We may willy-nilly find ourselves forced … to topple five or six or seven more tyrannies in the Islamic world (including that other sponsor of terrorism, Yasir Arafat’s Palestinian Authority). I can even the turmoil of this war leading to some new species of an imperial mission for America, whose purpose would be to oversee the emergence of successor governments in the region more amenable to reform and modernization than the despotisms now in place. … I can also envisage the establishment of some kind of American protectorate over the oil fields of Saudi Arabia, as we more and more come to wonder why 7,000 princes should go on being permitted to exert so much leverage over us and everyone else."
Norman Podhoretz, ‘grandfather’ of the neoconservative movement, author of “World War IV”

This is the most often cited faction as having hijacked the Republican Party. Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, at the Defense Department, Condaleezza Rice, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle--all are administration officials who are neoconservatives. They do not believe in diplomacy, they do believe in war as a first option.

“The United States needs to go to war with Iraq because it needs to go to war with someone in the region and Iraq makes the most sense.”
Jonah Goldberg, neoconservative thinker

Diplomacy to solve the problems deliberately created by the Neocons, not a draft, which will play into expansion plans of Neocon imperialists [Perle, Ledeen, Podhoretz, Norquist, Wolfowitz => sophomoric Nietzschean imitators...:puke:“Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad..." (Michael Ledeen -- possibly involved in forged Niger documents -- mouthing Nietzsche stylistically, a la Kaufmann translation, which probably sounds impressive to gullibles like Rumsfeld and Cheney. BTW, Nietzsche could not get beyond his existential abyss, which nihilism led the philosopher to postulate an overcoming of existential despair by defining his "over-man" as a VALUE-CREATOR, a philosopher-with-a-hammer, willing values and creating realities...from which probably derives Rovian "Creating your own reality" and the "creative destruction" notions of Michael Ledeen.)].

Which DLC dems will ignore the legality of the war (not investigate the lies or prosecute the treason of Cheney, Bush, Powell, Tenet?, etc) and come out and support a draft?

(Hillary?)

[leftchick]

6. hire more mercs

I imagine the current number of 125,000 mercs to rise substantially as the US military runs out of bodies.

[opihimoimoi]

7. We could try PEACE.....but the PUBs hate the word....despise it...reject it...WHY?

Because they don't know anything but WAR/Greed/Arrogance/Domination/etc.....

IOW...They don't know HOW....

[Blackhatjack]

8. The problem we face here is that economic incentives have already reaped the maximum recruits..

... and more money will not change the minds of many potential recruits.

[rocktivity]

9. We never should have gone INTO Iraq without a draft

because Bush WAS TOLD that didn't have enough troops on hand to do what he wanted to do successfully. His response was to get rid of those who said it. What was that guy's name--Shenecki? Maybe HE wants the "war czar" job!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Blackhatjack]

10. The purpose of the OP is NOT TO RECOMMEND A DRAFT ... but identify it as impt issue

We have to face the fact that we have a President who is 'escalating' the number of troops deployed in Iraq, and a depleted source of troops to draw upon.

I believe that an honest assessment of the issue of a Draft will lead us to a change in policy sooner -- and will result in the saving of many lives, American and Iraqi the sooner we address it.

[jwirr]

11. Unfortunately that is the last thing that Democrats want to propose

now before an election. We either have to find a way to force *ss to get out of Iraq or ask for a draft - a think I do not think he will do either - or impeach this bunch so we can get out of Iraq.

Yesterday it was said that he wants to prolong this war just long enough so he is out of office when we pull out. That is easy to arrange *ss - you and cheney just resign. Then the new president Nancy Polosi can end it without anyone getting blamed since her congress was the one elected to bring them home.

[mike_c]

12. there is no intention to EVER leave Iraq, or even to "win" anything there...

...in the sense of making a U.S. occupation unnecessary. As long as the U.S. has sufficient force presence to control access to Iraqi oil there is no need for winning anything further, or for a draft. The violence in Iraq is ultimately nothing more than an inconvenience. In the LONG, LONG term it will ultimately burn itself out, and the U.S. occupation forces will still be sitting on the oil. The deaths of Iraqis and of American troops are of little consequence in the end. Exxon will get the crude, and Haliburton will get the support contracts.

[Rosemary2205]

14. We can pull out all our troops and keep fighting -- Blackwater.

We have over 120,000 blackwater employees in Iraq. Some are support services, like laundry and food services but most are security. We could pull out every single soldier and just hire more Blackwater guys.

The problem is, once we pull out, the funding dries up and there's no money to pay Blackwater guys $40,000 a month.

[napi21]

15. One thing you didn't mention is that we have THOUSANDS of

mercinaries that we're paying BIG BUCKS to to fight in Iraq, as well as now our military doesn't do any of the ancilary tasks anymore, like laundry, cooking, etc. People wonder how this "war" can be costing so much. Well, when we had the draft, the military was self sustaining. I worked with an accountant who had served in the Navy during Nam. His job was peeling potatoes and several other galley jobs, even though he also had a duty station aboard the ship when they got into a conflict. Trust me, those guys sure didn't make the kind of $$ the civilians in Iraq are making today!

I'm notsupporting a draft, but I do think the American people need to fact a fact. If they want to remain the policemen of the World and elect Presidents who believe in THAT kind of a foreign policy, theresimply are NOT enough volunteers to fill the required ranks.

[JVS]

16. ergo refuse to draft and force war to end

[LiberalFighter]

17. If bushwad and his buddies want to continue with the war in Iraq and elsewhere

then Congress should give their permission in a bill with the provision that the draft be created.

The first group that should be drafted should be the likes of Windbag, O'Reilly, Beck, et. al.
The second group that should be drafted should be the neocons that advocate war.
The third group that should be drafted should be the sons and daughters of all Congressional members that advocate war.
The fourth group that should be drafted should be the ministers that advocate war.

[Blackhatjack]

18. The facts that force consideration of a draft are similar to a car run out of gas...

... you can massage it and spin it all you want, but some facts are very inconvenient and unavoidable.

When the car runs out of gas, it stops running.

When the military runs out of troops to deploy, you either withdraw to obviate the need for troops or you force involuntary service on the public by implementing a draft. No other choices available.

[Phredicles]

19. So what we need to do is GET THE FUCK OUT NOW!

Fuck the draft, fuck the war, fuck The Decider.

[meldroc]

20. ++

To hell with a draft - we have plenty of soldiers for peaceful duties. We just don't have enough to continue waging two unjust, destructive occupations. Bring our boys home and fuck the draft.