Look at DU's Greatest Page ..... wow .......

[Stinky The Clown]

I haven't looked at the Greatest Page in a few days ...... maybe a week.

All the highest rated threads are clearly expressing various levels of displeasure with Obama. The one thread that was not had nothing to do with him. The same pattern holds true as one reads down the page.

By the way, reading down the page takes a lot longer than it used to as lots more threads are being voted upon these days.

But back to the point. There is a great deal of anger, disappointment, disillusion, disgust, regret in the air. Some of it, for some people, is over one specific set of issues (health care, gay rights, climate, etc.). Some of it is far broader. The centrism. The triangulation.

People are venting. Or boiling over. We read about concepts such as "capitulation" and "abandonment". Some vent in long, well thought essays. Others in short rants.

This results in the inevitable schism within the community. Schisms always existed, to be sure. Primary season usually is the height of it. But no more. The schisms developed during the primaries have become full fledged rifts. Tectonic separations. The mere schisms seem inexorably moving toward polarization. Binary steadfastness. Black and White-ism. Love/Hate.

DU, it is often said, is not like the real world. It is a community of opinionated, reasonably well informed, surely very aware, people who follow politics. Many in the same way sports fans follow sports. And I suppose that's true, that we're not indicative of the larger public sentiment.

To a point: we're often kookier, wackier, more wonkish about things.

Setting the radar to a broader view, however, we are probably more representative of the country than many like to think. People "out there" really are upset about health care. People "out there" really want no more war, no matter where it is or who orders it. People "out there" who are affected by it directly or through friends or loved ones really are feeling excluded on matters of gay rights.

In some ways, we've passed the point of repairability. When the country enters into a relationship with a President, it knows it is of some finite duration. The tenor of the term is set early on. It is fair to say that the country's positive feelings for a president diminish over time. Not grow.

Whether any one of us loves, hates, or simply tolerates this (or any for that matter) president matters little. What does matter is the national mood. And it is increasingly sour.

Some of that is actually George Bush's fault. In fact, much of it is. The root cause lies in the last eight years. Or sixteen years. Or thirty two years. No one argues that. No one is unaware that we were left a wreck that was spread across all lanes of the highway. Carnage from guard rail to guard rail.

That's not the issue.

The issue is how it was handled.

And that brings me back to the opening of this thread.

The Greatest Page is reflective of the mood with respect to how things are being handled.

Everyone, I dare say, wants a health care reform bill. The argument is what *kind* of health care reform bill we get. What kind of economic policy we get. What kind of internatinal policy we get. What kind of trade policy, human rights policy, citizens' rights policy, criminal treatment policy, domestic spying policy ......

On all of it, I think, on balance and on average, DU does reflect the larger populace.

[Thickasabrick]

1. I think so too.....K&R

[AllentownJake]

2. Go to the President's facebook page

It looks like DU.

[grahamhgreen]

41. Link?

[chatnoir]

77. If it's this, they seem to delete or not allow any comments

http://www.facebook.com/barackobama

[NJmaverick]

3. Yeah the invisible unrec crew has really ruined the place

the DU is now the anti-DU The greatest page is an utter embarrassment. Funny how you see posts with a hundred recs and only a half dozen comments. Sure seems like there is an invisible army at work.

[Cetacea]

6. +1.

Deaf ears.

[SoCalDem]

7. I hate that too.. I'd rather see a thread with 100 replies & 0 recs

It's about discussion.. not ditto-clicks

but then, I never GO to the GP or the Latest or the super-in-kids page-o' the-day

[tekisui]

8. Fact-free conspiracy crap. You are getting more insulated in your party bubble.

[NJmaverick]

10. Ignored the FACT of the rec to response ratio

but I expected as much

[tekisui]

11. A rec is a comment of approval.

[glitch]

12. Like a nod in a conversation.

If you agree with someone you don't restate their opinion, you nod.

[NJmaverick]

21. A nod is personal, this is more like an anonymous note

and it could very well be freepers with DU accounts doing the reccing

[NJmaverick]

20. Can it be made by a freeper with a DU account?

[Jackpine Radical]

58. I personally don't take that approach.

I rec based on many things. If something is well-expressed and thoughtful, I'm inclined to rec it to keep the dialog going, even if I don't agree with it. Being on DU is something of an insulating factor to begin with. The problem with the Internets is that people are forever seeking out information and opinion that merely confirms their pre-existing notions. I think we need to fight against that. I don't think this means I have to swim through the muck of FR or hang out on teabagger sites, but surely I should be giving consideration to the discrepant views offered up by others who at least share my fundamental reality-based worldview and humanistic values. The fight is not about underlying principles, but about the means for serving those principles. Certainly also, the current situation is a complex and vexing one. Here is one of the main places where left-of-center debate can happen. Not being a member of any organized political party (to quote Will Rogers)--or at least a regimented one--is a virtue. And I believe that the debates on DU do percolate up to "higher levels" within the party. I respect a lot of people I disagree with here, and I would not want them silenced simply because I disagree with them.

[flying rabbit]

19. If you look under the top tens

in the section where the unrecs are not counted, and compare it to the top of the greatest page, you see it is almost the same. I don't see how the unreccers are ruining this place.

[tbyg52]

23. They're not

It's just the only explanation some have left. The actual explanation is that people are very, very angry with "their" representatives, on all levels.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. don't let the facts get in the way here

we just know it is the filthy unreccing trolls -

[closeupready]

24. Of course you would say that. You are nearly alone in supporting the Senate's HC bill.

Feeling lonely?

[Renew Deal]

50. The unrec feature would make you believe that

Even though it's not true.

[freddie mertz]

37. You think it is some "crew," it is not. It is the people who pay attention

to the details who are speaking out now.

When the distracted public finds out just how bad this bill is, the mandates and minimal price controls, the shit will really hit the fan.

The best way to defend the president would be to warn him and press him to make it better, and fast.

[windbreeze]

67. I have to disagree with the not "some unseen crew" business...to a point...

A few months ago...I was on another site, and read a post suggesting, that their members join DU...just to cause trouble...because some of them felt that members of DU were attacking that site...I know some of them did, because I saw names that referenced the other site posting here...I don't know how many joined...and I don't know that any of them are responsible for what happens now, or that they are still here...I'm just saying, don't discount any possibilities...this IS an open site..anyone can join...and we all know that there are those individuals, and groups out there who do watch and stir the ****, just because they can...it seems members of DU watch and post on other sites too, so why would it be so inconceivable that the same thing happens here? I'd suggest we not be quite so gullible as to believe we have only Democrats/known greens/known independents posting here, or people who agree with the majority of DU on any one thing...it's possible, and very likely that we have a goodly amount of others too...wb

[freddie mertz]

72. Maybe. But the sincerity of the vast majority here is clear enough.

And there are some very visible right-winger here too, some of them quite high profile among the "defend the pres" ranks.

They are not the majority, but they are there. You've noticed that too, right?

[sabrina 1]

40. It doesn't have anything to do with recs or unrecs. I rec'd this

this thread because I agree with it. What has happened is that the Democratic Party told their base to go to hell. We were told to STFU, we had no place at their magnificent, bought and paid for by Corporate money table. Then, with US out of the way, they went ahead and handed over to their corporate bosses everything they could possibly think of. And when some ridiculous member would try to stick in something to placate the American People, like a CHOICE of what kind of healthcare they might want, Democrats quickly took it away. And when as a last attempt to give the people SOMETHING, like lowering the Medicare age, the Democrats snatched that away also.

Have you seen the polls? People HATE what they are doing. It has little to do with DU even. 67% of the people do NOT want Mandated insurance.

Go look at the blogs, everywhere people are angry. Whose fault is that? Who held a gun to the heads of Dems and forced them to escalate the war, to conduct this sham they are calling 'Health Care Reform' or to refuse to hold torturers accountable and a myriad of other things?

Why, eg, has the DOJ not intervened in the Siegal case? That was clearly a political prosecution engineered by Karl Rove and the man is a Democrat, yet they get a corrupt Republican from Alaska off the hook? I could go on, but surely you get the picture.

Tell me something to be happy about with this administration. Show me where Obama has stood up, just once, for the base of the party, the people who actually got him elected. And explain why the Dems are slamming Howard Dean without whom many of them wouldn't even be in power.

If the Dems fool themselves as you are doing and ignore the real anger among their base (Obama down to 48% approval ratings yesterday) they WILL lose. They better start taking it seriously and rather than insulting the people they will badly need in 2010, start explaining why they deserve their votes again. Because right now, a lot of people, women, working class people who will be so badly effected by this 'mandated' insurance, are pretty well finished with them.

And someone better put a gag on Rahm Emanuel. He more than anyone, would be a very good reason not to vote for Obama in 2012. He wants to ignore the 'left'? Great, we can return the favor, and we will.

[mother earth]

62. +1, I have to agree. You can't be progressive and be happy

with being thrown a crumb, when the heart and soul of the party is ignored, the driving force is going to diminish, Obama had a huge youth following, new idealists, along with the older ones. The younger ones will feel the "mandate" more because college grads are having a hard time finding jobs, they won't be on mom & pop's insurance after graduation.

The young are also the ones being soldiered out for the surge, wanting out of the war being another issue for waning support.

Everyone had high hopes for these things being tackled in favor of the people.

[Puglover]

73. +1000

This should be an OP.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. Be careful, NJ Maverick.

I got a warning from the mods for complaining about the unrec'ers. It seems that they want this feature for some reason.

[pokercat999]

45. Pretty pom-pom u got there....nt

[Renew Deal]

49. You're correct

And it's in no way representative of all the people on DU.

[Chan790]

55. Where you see a bad thing, I see a good thing.

Honestly...how many threads are shorter now because there is no need to post a reply reading "I disagree" or "No." or "You're a blithering buffoon." or "GFY!" or "Freeper!"

It certainly makes for better more concise reading. I think it also gives us a much better feel for how people really feel. You might not like that but I think it's true. The only way I'd support eliminating "unrec" would be if we scrapped the whole "Rec/Unrec" system completely and things went to the greatest page based on number of replies and a human-element assessing "quality of replies" (from a value neutral standpoint. A thread with 500 replies of "Yup" does not belong on the Greatest page and neither does Graywarrior's Thread That Never Dies, but generally thread-length is a good indicator of thread-quality.)

[davidwparker]

69. I tend to do that when the OP captures something completely and there is

really nothing more to add.

No sinister motives.

For comments, I'm doing more +1, while wishing comment rating would be added.

[upi402]

4. Obama is a Clinton Republican. Nothing wacky about acknowledging that. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

76. +1.

:thumbsup:

[midnight]

5. You are right on target about boiling over comments, rants, and etc.....

We don't need health care reform, we need insurance reform. Take this middleman out of my life....

[SoCalDem]

9. "insurance" is the probem..not any part of the solution..n/t

[bridgit]

13. "on balance"? You mean there was a middle ground all along but that DU...

is so pridefully dismissive of the opinions of others that all this time has been wasted when a common resolution could have been achieved years ago? The result of naysayers, disruptor's, groupies, and demands for links & facts that fit more comfortably squarely up the rosebuds of DU and it's single-issue-devolutionary-rock-stars - DU's *Greatest Page* too often flaps like a tattered un-starred un-striped flag

'we are probably more representative of the country why Dems aren't able to advance anything than many like to think'

[Number23]

35. Perfectly said.

:thumbsup:

[Stinky The Clown]

52. If you read that in the OP ..... wow. Just wow.

The "on average" referred to DU's community. That the average of DU is reflective of the national mood, not, as you suggest, that each post on the greatest page is reflective of it. But it was a complicated sentence, so I can understand that some might have had comprehension issues with it.

[bridgit]

79. "I can understand that some might have had comprehension issues with it"

Your edifications are better spent elsewhere on people that don't have to sift through bullshit for a living

[Laelth]

14. The left is mad, no doubt about it. DU reflects that.

Most of the American people, on the other hand, are simply not paying attention.

And yes, I certainly would like access to health care (which I currently lack), but I don't think the Federal Government is capable of reforming the system right now. If this bill is the best the Federal Government can do, then the Federal Government should do nothing.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Royal Sloan 09]

15. K & R nt

[bigwillq]

16. It just shows that a lot of people

are upset, angry, frustrated. Nothing wrong with that. Our government has failed (most of) the people again.

[Betty Karlson]

17. This is something we must remind ourselves of:

"Some of that is actually George Bush's fault. In fact, much of it is. The root cause lies in the last eight years. Or sixteen years. Or thirty two years. No one argues that."

And keep reminding ourselves!

[scubadude]

18. Yes, but the question is, does it matter?

The same dynamics still exist today that have for some time.

The people, or the "corperate persons" who have the money want more, and they are willing to pay for it. They are willing buy politicians, the media and whatever else thay can to get it. Politicians from both sides realize this.

Your average Joe may be ticked, but where does he get his info? Perhaps that ultimately is the very thing that is bought and payed for by the well monied.

We on DU are more aware of what is going on and less susceptible to this kind of manipulation, but "our message" is largely unheard, and when we are, does it matter when both sides are largely already bought off?

For the average Joe to win people need to see the Dems as their ally. The Dems need money and a voice to do this. These two go against each other as far at the monied are concerned.


Scuba

[tbyg52]

22. The average Joe has no power, none at all.

Look at the bank bailout. Telephone calls were running something like 100-to-1 against it. Made no difference at all. With a very few exceptions, the buying-and-paying-for of "our" government has been completed.

[WillyT]

25. Most Excellent Post !!! - K & R !!!

:applause:

:kick:

[bvar22]

27. Rahm's "White HouseMessage Discipline" Team is failing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/rahm-emanuels-think-tanke_b_185203.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7274861




Poor Rahmbo,
and he wanted to be our Latex Salesman.

[smoogatz]

28. DU was happier with itself as an opposition forum.

We don't quite know how to act now that Democrats are in power. Somehow we're surprised that at the national level, the Democratic party is a lot less progressive than we are. I would still argue that Obama is doing pretty nearly exactly what he said he'd do during the election. I'd also argue that there's nothing in his history that would indicate that he's anything other than the consummate political pragmatist: he'll take pretty much any victory he can get. The fact that so many of us are now expressing such bitter buyer's remorse doesn't surprise me--it's DU, after all--but it does irk me to the point that I have a hard time coming here now. Obama's never been a progressive, he didn't run as a progressive, and there's no reason to expect him to act like a progressive. He's also saddled with the crappiest Dem senate majority in memory--it's a cobbled together mess, and the way it's working now is that Republican unity of opposition is having the effect of empowering the most conservative and recalcitrant Dems (and Lieberman) in the caucus. It sucks, but that's how it is right now, and the only solution is to elect more progressive Democrats going forward. That seems obvious to me--but I'm not surprised that so many DUers don't get it, or want to pretend they don't get it.

[HughMoran]

31. Well said

I could have written that myself as I agree on all points.

[Skelly]

59. When the solution is not real

"the only solution is to elect more progressive Democrats going forward"

Unfortunately, many of us do not have the choice of voting for a progressive. Our choice is "lame" or "lamer".

Also, unfortunately, many of us are so caught up in trying to live through this mess (unemployment/underemployment, healthcare issues, meeting the basic needs of our families) that money, time and energy spent on finding, supporting, and electing progressives just isn't there.

[smoogatz]

63. Well, sure.

I think lots of people are in the same boat, and I think our national politics especially is often a choice between lame and lamer, corporate or more corporate, center-right or far right. Not very satisfying, obviously, and just as obviously no way to solve the big issue stuff that the majority of Americans are perennially concerned with. Corporatist economic policy is killing the middle class, and you're one of the victims: so am I, in the sense that my income's stagnant and the cost of everything is inexorably inflating, especially (at the moment) food, energy, childcare, healthcare and "luxuries" like cable, cell phone, and internet service--all of which we're in the process of shedding or cutting back. But you still vote for "sucks less than the other guy," even if you hold your nose while you connect the little arrow, or whatever.

[Skelly]

78. Sucks less than the other guy

is not going to get progressives elected.
Not that I have the answer because I don't. Still looking. Still hoping.

[treestar]

29. DU is not the country

It pretty much doesn't matter.

DU can be fun. But there is no reason to take it seriously.

[HughMoran]

30. I agree with all of your sentiments

However, I disagree with your conclusion.

The paragraph where you attempted to tie in the disenchantment at DU with the greater population didn't work for me. It doesn't apply to my family even. My extended family is mostly liberal, yet other than me trying educate them, they have minimal interest in gay marriage, think that Afghanistan was "the right war" and will be more than happy about this healthcare bill. My dads right-wing friend is anti-war since Obama was elected. Obviously he thinks HCR is socialism rising. He pretends not to be a bigot but he patronizes black & gays in the most embarrassing way. So, my fathers right-wing friend is closer to DU on 2 of 3 issues than my liberal family. I think that we're being manipulated by right-wing style thinking - even though I don't think it's purposeful on anybody's part.

[lunatica]

32. Our government is the same as ever. We're the ones who have changed

Everyone ran on going back to fight the real war which is in Afghanistan. Hillary, McCain, Obama and the others who ran early in the Primaries. Few debated the war in Afghanistan and it seemed to be an unspoken assumption that it was a justified war. Many of us here were always against that war because it could have been handled differently. Now there are many more of us who feel that way. DU has a large number of Progressives. I think it may be too large to make it a mirror image of the general population. Just like the Christian Right Teabaggers are also not representative of the general American population.

So maybe we've all become more progressive as we see the Democrats representing us solidly in the Center. I think we're the ones who have changed because our representatives haven't. Our government is the same as ever. The powers that be are the ones we've always had there. Corporations run everything and they have for generations. It's the same old, same old, but we're becoming much less tolerant of it. Much less willing to not look at the truth or less willing to pretend that things aren't fucked up.

[pundaint]

64. Was "everyone" the word you meant to use here?

Now if you had said that everyone who the corporate media would allow the public to hear, supported renewing that war that would be different.

Our government has changed. Filibusters were never this common. I cannot remember any other time when a Senator would dare say we are going to just say no to make the President a failure, much less multiple senators from the same party in the same year. The science of NLP has been tuned to a state of efficiency, that with sufficient media access a majority of Americans can be made to believe almost anything.

Politics has become a competition, not of ideas, but of advertising memes. The media now competes for eyeballs, not for getting to the truth. Political reporting seems to me to be about 95% about campaign strategy, and 5% about issues, and the media determines who we'll hear from, so good ideas from inferior candidates don't even make it into Public discourse. Just like in our supermarkets, get a lot more stuff, but fewer actual choices.

Government is actually paying for story placement with public funds.

There has been big change, and we must believe it, so we can address it. Orwell's 1984 playbook is in use.

I think this healthcare issue is our last best chance to unite the People to reclaim government, because the failure of what we've got is so real to such a large percentage of the People that diversionary lies are not as effective. We the People see the truth about healthcare, now we need to see how disingenuously our elected representatives are trying to convince us that a permanent 15-20% tax on medical expenses payable to private corporations is reform. Proper action will naturally follow correct seeing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. You are correct, but a certain crew

is still in denial about it.

[varelse]

34. Recommended

I don't know about prevailing political views on DU, but I do agree that DU's current mood, at least, does reflect that of the larger populace.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. Thank you for your thoughtful and coherent post.

Your posts usually fall into those two categories, and that is why I always read them.

[bobbolink]

38. Well, then a very large portion of the nation is kooky and wacky.

If you think this is only on DU, then you haven't been listening to the people around you.

Especially try listening to people who voted for the first time ever in their lives last year.

LIVID.

[gleaner]

39. Agreed, again ....

I find myself looking forward to your posts. Not just because I agree with you most of the time, but because you analyze everything with the utmost care and arrive at very precise conclusions.

Since you already said it so well, I won't try to say it again. All I want to add is that from early in Obama's presidency I began objecting to how he was handling the government as well as to specific policy issues. Each time, several OP would respond to me telling me that I was mistaken and urging me to "give him a chance" or "wait and see." I am still writing in the same way, but I am not receiving the responses from the OPs who so fervently supported Obama. I don't miss them. They made me sad because I knew that sooner or later they would become disillusioned themselves.

I do think DU is reflective of the country as a whole. As I was making my objections to my senators, congressman and others I could tell that the people answering the phones were hassled and tired. When I asked if they were getting a lot of calls they said the volume was high. On some of the calls I made they told me that the traffic was against Obama. They won't always do that, but sometimes if you ask they will tell you. They are human too, and I got the feeling that a lot of them were as disappointed as I was. I think that this administration and this Congress were truly surprised by the vehemence of the backlash they saw and are still seeing. It really is all downhill for them from here. If anyone did trust them, they won't again. Once you lose your trust in a person or an institution it is almost impossible to regain it.

Edited by gleaner to insert omitted word

[Chulanowa]

43. There's also the fact that a thread only needs five votes to be "greatest"

An I can name five posters off the top of my head who's primary goal in life has been to wipe their asses with Obama's shirt from the very first day he entered the running.

Using DU's greatest page to gauge popular sentiment is like using a PBS poll to gauge whether Sarah Palin is popular.

[Fumesucker]

51. No, it takes five *net* recs to get to the greatest page,,

An OP can get 1000 recs, if it gets 996 unrecs it's not going to the greatest page.

Somehow I get the feeling that those who most supported the unrec function are those now most crying about the direction the rec/unrec function has taken us.

[defendandprotect]

44. Agree . . . tho some here would like to pretend liberal dissatisfaction is an aberration....

This is an overwhelmingly liberal nation ---

and the lengths that the right wing has to go to in order to rise give proof to that --

control of our free press -- control news agencies, of publications, TV, radio -- because any

pebble of truth can shatter their mirror of myths/lies.

That's the problem for them with the internet -- it becomes very apparent how liberal we all

are.

OTOH, how any voter can look at the amount of corporate buying of our government for more than

40 years and decide that candidates stuffed up with corporate money are to be trusted is beyond

me!

Meanwhile, what is important is to stick together as a voting bloc and decide on Plan B!!

[kayakjohnny]

46. One of the best posts I've ever read on DU

Excellent from beginning to end.

My hat is off to you.

Very well thought-out.

Wonderfully articulated.

[swilton]

47. Let's not forget that George Bush

Was also a prouct of the Democratic Party enablers.

[Renew Deal]

48. Yes, and it doesn't give a complete view of the opinions on DU

Instead it represents one side. Anything that doesn't fall in line is missing.

Besides that, getting on the greatest page is easy. All you have to post is something like "I feel betrayed by Obama" and here come 50 recs. The unrec feature is a failure as I've said before.

[Fumesucker]

53. Are you saying that unrecs from Obama supporters aren't being counted?

That seems quite tinfoilish to me..

[Renew Deal]

54. First, we are all Obama supporters.

If we're not, we don't belong here.

As to the question, no. I'm saying more DUers claim to believe that they don't like the current bill. That means that the many DUers that support the ***Democratic*** bill are shut out from the greatest page. It doesn't give a fair representation of the views on DU. Instead it makes it look like a fringe site.

[Fumesucker]

56. I got the impression that it was those unappy with Obama who mostly opposed the unrec function..

Back when it was first introduced..

I know I wasn't a big fan of the unrec function when it was introduced and I have been unhappy with many of Obama's decisions since as far back as the FISA/telecom immunity 180 and Donnie McClurkin..

I only support someone to the extent I feel they are working for the good of Americans as a whole, I'm really sorry to say that I don't feel that way about Obama and haven't for a while now.

[HughMoran]

60. Sadly, it's true - only posts critical of Obama now make it to the GP

The unrec feature, while originally opposed by many of the Obama critics, has now been gamed so that no opinions supportive of Obama will ever get more than marginally onto the GP. Many that are quickly recced to the GP will go negative within minutes of arriving there. Not sure what the answer is, but it would be nice if DU seemed to represent Democrats in a positive light again.

[ChiciB1]

57. Don't If This Has Been Post, But I Header They Will Be An INCREASE In

PENALTIES for those who DON'T BUY insurance NOW! I saw it on the news this A.M. and my jaw just dropped! Nelson gets his way to some extent and on and on and on!

WHY shouldn't we BE SOUR AND UPSET?? My husband keeps saying "that's the way it is" and I say "it's that same apathy that got us here," but you know what... tell me HOW we can make THEM listen? Yes, that IS the way it is, and I don't know what our frustration and anger is producing. THEY simply choose to ignore us and I just get angrier and angrier. Especially as one who lives where I do, where it's EVERYTHING REPUKE!

I'm probably going to register NPA, but that's not the real issue because I don't think I'll ever vote Repuke, but what it DOES mean is that I no longer trust the Democratic Party to do the "people's work" after what I've seen of THIS MAN OBAMA, His Administration and all the Democrats so many of us worked so very hard to elect. Tomorrow is my day to go to town because I have (of all things) a Dr.'s appointment and the Supervisor of Elections office is on my way. No reason to put it off any longer. If I want to vote for a Democrat, I will... but it will have to be one that I will scrutinize like a laser beam, and then don't know for sure! Obama talked, and talked and promised and promised, but has left me cold, EVEN DOWN HERE IN SUNNY FLORIDA!! The weather is great, the MOOD IS NOT!! I will stick with Dean, but the "run of the mill" Democrats had better LEAVE ME ALONE! It's NOT what I wanted, it's NOT where I wanted to be and it's NOT how I want to feel, but it IS WHAT I'M FEELING! Can's shake it, can't run away from it! Can't LIE TO MYSELF!

JMHO!

[mother earth]

61. It very definitely does. I spoke to someone who's never

voted in her life, who actually had a good grasp on what's going on, because she pays attention to what affects her, even tho she's never been moved to be part of the system of choosing or voting (disappointing as it is to me to be a woman and to see another woman not honor those who fought for that right). I was surprised that she understood a lot on HOW we got to this point of turmoil. She hated GW, and is disgusted about health care.

Even those disengaged from politics know the deal, its the idiots that follow the disinformation channels and radio-hate-talk dimwits that are the gullible/misguided, it's that same teabag base that's the problem. Education and access to truth is key, that's why it's used as a tool by the GOP.

I do believe DU is indicate of the majority, dems have always been the party of the people. The lack of taking the corporate stranglehold away is what's destroying us, both as the party of the people and the nation itself.

[pjt7]

65. Obama has sold out to Citigroup/Goldman

increased the war in Afghanistan & been weak on health-care, during CRUNCH time.

What's not to be dissapointed or out-raged about?

[FarLeftFist]

66. But his approval rating is 51% wouldn't that mean the majority (by not much) think he's doing

A good job.

[Scruffy1]

68. I think you are right.......

DU posters are the greatest on the internet and truly reflect the views of those that are paying attention. Right wingers are mostly low information people who get their information second hand from paid hacks. The reason I seldom post is that you all say what I'm thinking. Being a student of history
I tend to cut Obama a little more slack. The power of the Presidency is highly overrated by the general
population. My wife is a good example of this when she credits a grant her church got to Obama when of course only Congress can fund programs. Throughout American history the US Senate has been the instrument of wealth, power and the status quo. Even FDR never got one bill through it after 1937. Outside of Bernie Sanders we don't have a lot of representation. Ben Nelson an insurance company hack,Joe Lieberman from Likud. And the list on the republican side is like cartoon characters. The Presiddent has little power over these corrupt assholes and the voters love them. Ben Nelson is very popular in Nebraska, an idiot like Inhoff wins by a wide margin in Oklahoma. Cornyn wins easily in Texas etc.
The point of my rant is that if you want change you have to change the senate not attack the President. To do this takes a mass effort at the grass roots level to educate voters. With the me3dia lock in the USA it is a daunting task, but can be done.

[Capn Sunshine]

70. Don't kid yourself

DU reflects DU. The larger populace has never heard of DU.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. But DU has heard of the larger populace

We've shown ourselves, as a community, to be ahead of the curve, not off the curve.

[hay rick]

74. DU reflects fragments of the populace.

First, on the subject of Obama: I share the disappointment expressed by many on his handling of a variety of issues.

On DU: I think some groups are over-represented here compared both to the population as a whole and also to the Democratic Party- economic populists and strong advocates of GLBT rights come immediately to mind.

Black activism seems very subdued here for a progressive site.

I was initially surprised to find a reliable presence of gun rights advocates here. In this instance, DU definitely reflects the larger populace.

[noiretextatique]

75. those who claim DU is not a microcosm of the populace

remind me of sarah palin and others who claim to know what "real america" thinks.

[mother earth]

80. Yeah, it's really a case of wanting to believe DU is just DU,

people who care are part of DU. Those people elected Obama.

[libertyvalence]

81. PISSED OFF AT WHO?

12/21/09
I'd like to let myself get pissed off but it is not clear who to get
pissed off at. Obama got in, he played the political game. I thought that the
rhetoric of change was more important than the equivocating statements he
made for example; on Afghanistan. How horrible has that turned out? I thought
he would seek support from his base, unh uh. He went to the power brokers
for a safe place to hide (for now). The HCR bill is a disappointment, get
pissed off, right?
I hope he's a fast learner. What the hell is he going to say to us in
2012? "I'm going to dump Hillary, Bill Gates, Geitner and Rahm"? That would
get my attention, depending on his new picks. That would tell the story if he
is ready to govern and to lead. It doesn't look that way right now. So far,
the cost of that education, like any education is steep.
FDR knew what not to do because he had governed New York State, a
conservative state, and came from the class that had caused the depression. He
didn't necessarily know what to do. He tried a lot of things, some worked and
some didn't. What did Obama come from? What is in it for him to sell out?
We can fulminate all we want but none of us can predict the future
and it is important for progressives to learn how to wait, see realty (even if
it looks like shit) and choose your battles and alliances as they present
themselves. There is more at stake than health care. This bill is a pile of
crap but the progressive movement is real and we can't let that become a pile
of crap. Getting pissed off only leads to falling for conservative booby
traps.
When dad let me use the car, there were strings attached. It's the
same now with Obama. He is cautious and careful, even timid by nature, just
like dad. That doesn't make him a conservative. Almost everybody is the same
way, Republicans want people to believe that it means people, in general,
are conservative politically. Not so.
Obama made deals behind our backs. Just like dad. Obama is winging
it. Just like dad. We thought that Obama knew what he was doing and we thought
that dad knew what he was doing. Not so, well, we're on to him now.
Getting mad at dad was because I thought I had a right to, that my
anger was justified and that he had to respond. Guess what kids, de ja vu all
over again.
It's not like we don't know what to look for. This is a slow fight,
there isn't an Ali rope-a-dope to spot. If he has gone over to the dark side,
then he's in the place that he belongs but if he hasn't gone over, he in a
dangerous place. That's not politics, that's a war with the conservatives
who have been itching to re-establish feudalism since the end of
reconstruction.
Yes, these are people. Stupid, ignorant, crippled of heart and soul,
pig shit stubborn and incapable of honest self-examination. Does that help
bubbe? I realize that I’m being too generous, but this is the holiday season.
You have to be smart with these assholes. I trust you to figure this
out as it unfolds. Right now, the fight for social justice is being played
out in mock politics but you ain't seen nasty yet.
Only the tea baggers know who they're pissed at with absolute certainty
and righteous indignation, subsidized by the health insurance companies
through front organizations. Real grassroots? NOT. When the subsidies stop and
they have to spend their own money for bus trips and food, how are they
going to pay for ammo also?
If watching them has any lesson to hold, it is that their commitments
are only as thick as their wallets and not to imitate them in any way.
That's my take.
Yes, these are people. Stupid, ignorant, crippled of heart and soul, 
pig shit stubborn and incapable of honest self-examination. Does that help 
bubbe? I realize that I’m being too generous, but this is the holiday season. 
Right now, the fight for social justice is being played 
out in mock politics but you ain't seen nasty yet. Conservatives have been itching to re-establish feudalism since the end of reconstruction.