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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 12:53 AM Original message |
The importance of the individual mandate |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:03 AM Response to Original message |
1. FUCK INSURANCE COMPANIES |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:05 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Single payer is a mandate |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:40 AM Response to Reply #2 |
15. But apples aren't oranges. No matter how much you want them to be. |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:27 AM Response to Reply #15 |
21. not exactly |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:32 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. LOL. As if all people will be in the exchange |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:56 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. So paying for health insurance is not paying for something? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:02 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. I think you are confused, because you mentioned paying penalties for no insurance being better deal |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:05 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. But the mandate is also based on your ability to pay |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:07 AM Response to Reply #31 |
32. "there is no difference" -- If you repeat a lie enough, its still a lie |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:13 AM Response to Reply #32 |
38. Either way you are forced to pay |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:14 AM Response to Reply #38 |
39. So, they have similarities, like a dog and a cat, but they are not the same |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:16 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. Whats the difference? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:20 AM Response to Reply #40 |
41. Cats say meow, and dogs bark |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:30 AM Response to Reply #41 |
44. And cows go moo |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:44 AM Response to Reply #44 |
51. " wouldn't we end with better results in the long run from a competitive market" |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:52 AM Response to Reply #51 |
55. No but they do negotiate payments to doctors |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:57 AM Response to Reply #55 |
56. And find me a private insurer that historically negotiates lower rates than governments |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:06 AM Response to Reply #56 |
59. WTF is your problem? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:14 AM Response to Reply #59 |
65. You are assuming that all the insurers do not know... |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:19 AM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Yet that flies in the face of the reality created in massachusets |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:27 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. It has nothing to do with a mistrust of insurance companies but common sense |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:53 AM Response to Reply #69 |
73. Fair enough |
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ThePhilosopher04 (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 05:04 AM Response to Reply #56 |
75. Exactly... |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #40 |
78. The difference is that when you pay taxes it's dependent on what you make. |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:43 AM Response to Reply #2 |
24. Yes, it is a mandate. No, it is not insurance. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:57 AM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Single-Payer is insurance and no, its not the same type of mandate at all |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:08 AM Response to Reply #27 |
34. Single payer is not necessarily insurance, Oregone. |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:12 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. what would it be? if not insurance? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:13 AM Response to Reply #34 |
37. Uh, then maybe its not single-payer. Maybe there is another word for it. |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:32 AM Original message |
Perhaps they call it insurance in Canada, Oregone - but |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:39 AM Response to Original message |
49. No, no. You don't understand. Its insurance. Its not health care |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 11:40 AM Response to Reply #49 |
77. No, I'm not confused. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 08:20 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Im not sure about "MOST people" |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:39 AM Response to Original message |
50. You are confusing benefits with payments |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:49 AM Response to Reply #50 |
54. Another lie |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:00 AM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Are the personal attacks necessary? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:18 AM Response to Reply #57 |
67. 3% to be safe...similar single payer programs have a lower over head than that.. |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:34 AM Response to Reply #67 |
70. Calling me a liar is certainly attack |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:37 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. "not convinced of is that in the long run we would get better results under a single payer system" |
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ThePhilosopher04 (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:10 AM Response to Original message |
3. You just gave the reasons... |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:02 AM Response to Reply #3 |
29. Except that |
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ThePhilosopher04 (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:34 AM Response to Reply #29 |
46. Bullshit... |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:46 AM Response to Reply #46 |
52. if you cant afford the coverage how would you afford single payer? |
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ThePhilosopher04 (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:02 AM Response to Reply #52 |
58. Easy... |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:07 AM Response to Reply #58 |
61. How do you know what single payer would be based on? |
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ThePhilosopher04 (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:47 AM Response to Reply #61 |
72. It's not fictional... |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:59 AM Response to Reply #72 |
74. Of course its fictional |
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Vinnie From Indy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:17 AM Response to Original message |
4. You are missing the point |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:19 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. they cannot deny coverage |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:28 AM Response to Reply #6 |
8. And they will price it as high as possible to make it unaffordable for less attractive |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:31 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. They. Can't. |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:36 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. 3x the regular premium. |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:17 AM Response to Original message |
5. good luck |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:33 AM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Thanks |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:37 AM Response to Reply #10 |
13. my earlier attempt |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:11 AM Response to Reply #13 |
19. That was an awesome thread |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:55 AM Response to Reply #10 |
25. Single payer is a true universal system. |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:11 AM Response to Reply #25 |
35. of course it has been discused |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:22 AM Response to Reply #35 |
42. The penalties for the non-existent, never discussed, shoved off the |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:32 AM Response to Reply #42 |
45. my mistake I thought you were talking about penalties under the system thats proposed |
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enlightenment (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:35 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. I'm not pretending anything. |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:08 AM Response to Reply #47 |
62. by holding up a fictional piece of legislation as your argument? |
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Waiting For Everyman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:21 AM Response to Original message |
7. With mandates, the triathlete will pay the diabetic's rates ANYWAY. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:37 AM Response to Reply #7 |
12. The 85% pay-out regulation |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:40 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. The MLR cap only exists until 2013 completely worthless |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:57 AM Response to Reply #14 |
28. That applies to the immediate provisions |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:08 AM Response to Reply #28 |
33. Not according to this congressional analyst think tank |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:35 AM Response to Reply #33 |
48. They lie |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:06 AM Response to Reply #48 |
60. lol They might be wrong but they are not lying |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:46 AM Response to Original message |
16. Triathletes get injured.. A lot.. |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:50 AM Response to Original message |
17. Right, that's why we have to impose price controls on the premiums |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:12 AM Response to Reply #17 |
64. Agreed! |
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PSPS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 01:57 AM Response to Original message |
18. He's right - universal coverage requires everyone "buy" insurance |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:22 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Arent the exchanges meant to be that pool?" |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 02:38 AM Response to Reply #18 |
23. No one has to buy insurance in many UHC systems |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:23 AM Response to Original message |
43. 81 minutes after you started this thread another poster asked Why Mandates? |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:14 AM Response to Reply #43 |
66. Well we all know how that one thinks. |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 03:47 AM Response to Original message |
53. YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG. The mandate does not guarantee that anyone will be covered by the scam |
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BzaDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 04:11 AM Response to Reply #53 |
63. Where is your evidence that we have ANY chance of EVER getting single payer in our lifetime? |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-18-09 05:20 AM Response to Reply #63 |
76. And a black person will never be president. WE MAKE SHIT HAPPEN. Join us. |
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