I suppose cautioning patience is wasted breathe here abouts.

[Bucky]

Go ahead and unrec me, if it helps. But patience is still the name of the game here, even if taking this now hurts.

I know Lieberman is only doing this to hurt the Dems. He's a shit, but he's not afraid of anybody. The only way, the only way, to make any of this right, eventually, is to go massively on the offensive in the fall elections, the second we can, shitcan Lieberman out of his committee chair, and then go back in in 2011 and unfuck this part of healthcare--create a groundswell of support for fixing the parts they got wrong by compromising. Of course the second they payback Lieberman, he'll join the Republicans on every filibuster. He declared war on us; he's made himself a Fifth Columnist. But I don't want just to hit him back; I want to beat him, him and all of them. If we only act out of anger, we'll make more mistakes.

I'm pissed too, of course. I hope Rahm Emanual's words to Reid to just grin and take it up the ass from Lieberman is a temporary thing. Emanual and Obama's track records suggest they take the long view. But After all, If this is the first quarter, we just punted on our own 10 yard line, even though the other team only has 9 players on the field.

I'm not giving up on the Dems, although Goddamn they're acting like they want me to. The question is, are we going to react by shooting the horse out from under us, or do we react by spurring it harder still and trying to force it to run? We need a groundswell, not a circular firing squad. We need to be constructively pissed off.

Goddamn, what a shitty day.

[sandnsea]

1. We need a groundswell

And we've needed it since June. Instead we've had more and more people concocting more and more bullets so that there's plenty of ammo to shoot this bill down, but not near enough people defending it.

[Bucky]

4. We have to go on the offensive. This week.

We have to arm up with facts and phone calls and bodies at rallies.

I'm damn tired, but honestly I could still do more. This is nothing compared to what the Bluecoats faced in the 1860s. In 1861, in 1914, everyone expected they were facing a short war--home by Christmas. We will not be home by Christmas. It's gonna be a long war. The Baggers knew this going in, so maybe they deserve to win the first round. Fine, we got back stabbed. Lesson learned. So we've now smoked out our Copperheads; they smell like Lieberman. We know who the Fifth Columnists are in our ranks. We know who are weak generals are, too. The next question is, are we as strong as our forefathers were in 1861?

We're gonna have four years of warfare over this healthcare reform. We're going to have five Aprils of this shit. We need to get busy.

[Itchinjim]

2. knr

[county worker]

3. I believe we need to stop this bill now. Come back to this in he spring, do a House bill with a

good public option, and RAM IT DOWN THE THROATS of the Senate by reconciliation! I will not support a mandate to buy insurance from those that hold the gun to our heads!

Of course you can take the licking today and hope they pat your behind next time but I doubt it will ever happen. Be careful, now that you have your pants down that they just don't kick the shit out of you next time.

[Bucky]

5. You're 100% right. We are going to take a licking. I don't know what the legislative track is...

But I know the long term answer is that we must assume Lieberman is going to be against anything that gives Obama a real victory. That is the only given in this. This is war.

We need new generals.

[Goldstein1984]

6. Good luck with the groundswell thing

Too many people are on antidepressants.

Maybe it's all part of the plan--religion, sports, entertainment, celebrity worship, plenty of prisons, over-prescription of medication, and two political parties to divide and conquer.

[Bucky]

7. Oh, don't judge "the people" by what you see in DU. We're not a representative slice.

But those of us who want to see victory on this issue need to dig up some kind of can-do spirit.

[Goldstein1984]

8. Agreed

But I think it's going to have to be more than the routine emails and calls to representatives. They have people to handle that stuff while they meet with the money men.

Nothing is going to get Washington's attention but significant action.

I not only get the feeling that the political and economic elite aren't worried about we the people, I sort of feel like they find our situation amusing and convenient for them.

[hayu_lol]

9. Patience? We've had 16 years of patience...

and the overall situation now is worse than its been during those years. Dems attacked the Clintons worse than the Repugs. Then we had 8 years of Bush where the nation actually went backwards.

Why patience? Mine has gotten a bit thin over the past few years.

[Bucky]

10. We have two choices: patience and surrender.

We're hurt. Back stabs hurt. But in this case, where immediate remedies (and immediate revenge on Lieberman) is not possible, patience is the opposite of surrendering.

[Goldstein1984]

16. Patience and mental preparation

I believe than nonviolent activism is going to develop.

Eventually, a leader will emerge who will gain the ear of the people, and things will happen very quickly after that.

I believe there are nonviolent but decisive actions the people could take to frighten the elites.

People should already be thinking along those lines.

[jberryhill]

22. I'm planning to die of cancer as "street theater" /nt

[Goldstein1984]

25. Sad to say...

that kind of thing may be necessary.

[ramapo]

11. I've been patient all year

Never mind that I've been patient since Clinton fucked this up.

Where is the upside? Does anybody honestly think Democrats will have a record to run on in 2010? What will they say? Sorry about that healthcare mess but we need 70 in the Senate.

There is no long view. This is the time to play hardball and the one that seems capable of it is Joe Lieberman. Notice how quiet the Republicans are. Their secret weapon has been hard at work.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so sickening.

What is going on in Obama's head? He's a smart guy. Does he think people are going to be happy about paying higher taxes, being forced to buy insurance all while the insurance companies roll along on their merry way.

[mmonk]

12. I'm up for suggestions.

My insurance's annual increase is starting in less than a month. It literally SUCKS to live in America and be over 50 but less than 65 years of age and paying the full bill with it's large deductable. I guess it's just time to throw away my dreams of self employment and see who wants someone at my age that has been self employed most of his life. My experience tells me there isn't going to be many takers. I'm trying to get my sons through college at the same time.

[Bucky]

13. I'm out of useful suggestions. I'm hoping someone tells me how get involved in fighting the fuckers

But the thread asking for leads on getting more involved is dropping faster than Harry Reid's trousers.

[jberryhill]

15. Oh.. Sign up at Organizing For Whatever

it's time we all pulled together to stand up and demand, um, something.

[mmonk]

23. Everyone I have helped has been putting on pressure

such as the efforts from firedoglake and DFA. Doesn't seem to sway those in power on the issue. They are very organized. The battle is lost for something transforming. We can wait a few more election cycles to try and fix it again I suppose but the 60 vote rule will probably still carry the day. We just don't have the billions of dollars to compete and the politicians won't do it on any moral basis.

[jberryhill]

14. Are YOU going to pay MY premium while I'm being nice and patient?

No?

Then piss off.

You want me to go patiently into a goddamned grave. Is that it?

Oh, wait, you want me to pay money to a bunch of rich fucks while I'm doing it. I forgot that part.

Honey, when YOU have a heart attack, just call me and, uh, be patient.

I've been patient since 1992.

I gave it up today.

President Obama is a nice guy. He's a good president - above average. I'm glad he won and proud to have worked to see that happen.

Watching him ride off into the sunset, I feel that we really accomplished something significant.

Oh well.

[Bucky]

19. Great, you gave up being patient. Are you *doing* something?

What do we do after we "give it up" with the whole work within the system thing? What is your alternative. I posted another thread asking for suggestions on how to get more involved. Guess how many responses I've gotten there. If you have anything to offer besides despair and surrender, post it to this thread ==> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7236170

I'm ready to fight and fighting requires patience. I'm looking for constructive ways to get involved. What are you doing?

[jberryhill]

21. What am I doing?

Getting ready to pay 3x what someone your age will pay.

And buying plenty of lube.

Maybe I'll paint myself in bright colors and walk around my block yelling for an hour.

Then I'm thinking of the $400k canadian investment immigration buy-in and dropping two employees.

[laughingliberal]

17. "Emanual and Obama's track records suggest they take the long view. "

With all due respect, the only long run Emanuel is looking at is campaign contributions for the 2012 election. It was reported, from the jump, that he was pounding on liberals to cave to the Blue Dogs and get a nice, industry friendly bill passed so the insurance industry wouldn't give their money to Republicans.

[Goldstein1984]

18. Despite my post above

I really believe that people are frustrated. I just think they are also feeling powerless, and they are being expertly pacified or confused to inaction.

Sometimes I even wonder if they notice the irony when commercials for McDonald's, Nutrisystem, Pizza Hut, and Lipitor are run back-to-back.

But somebody is going to come along that will capture people's imaginations and organize them.

There are nonviolent and decisive actions that can be taken to get the attention of the ruling class.

It has to happen, but it's likely going to take awhile.

Be patient, but be preparing while you are being patient.

[LooseWilly]

20. Fuck patience... encourage Reid to put Public Option and Medicare Buy In back into the bill...

and make the Republicans actually filibuster.

If Obama/Rahm are advising Reid to deal with Lieberman no matter what sort of shit Lieberman offers... then Obama/Rahm are setting Reid up to take the fall if (when) the political fallout hits.

("Well, Obama isn't a dictator! It's the Senate that is the problem...")

I think Reid should tell the White House to fuck themselves... put the public option and the medicare buy in both into the bill, and put it out on the floor for votes... let the Republicans & Lieberman filibuster... make a goddamned sideshow out of the whole event. Draw in the media. Feed juicy tidbits to the talking heads... to TMZ for fuck's sake. Hell, arrange for TMZ cameras to be present on the day that security snidely tells Lieberman he's not welcome at a Democratic Caucus...

Don't forget, Reid is up for re-election. His emails label him as "Give 'Em Hell Harry"... So my message to Reid is to tell Rahm and Obama to fuck off... tell Lieberman to fuck off... and Force the Republicans to Kill a Good Bill, rather than passing whatever shitstick bill Lieberman sees fit to allow the Democrats to vote on...

As I see it... it can only help his chances of re-election in Nevada.

;)

[lamp_shade]

24. K&R