We have a choice now: do we let "MattyfromCincinnatti" rule our society or do we take a stand?

[AZBlue]

From msnbc.com message board:

“Our culpability in this situation, as a society, has been mischaracterized. Where we fell down was not in our lack of coddling this idiot or some misstep in guiding his defective and deviant urges towards more constructive ends. We are a society based on self-sufficiency, and those who are not self-sufficient are intrinsically barred from being full members of our society. Where we fell down was not Cho. We fell down with everyone else in that classroom. We taught them to be cowards, and then told them it was good that they were."
--MattyfromCincinnatti
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18246671/

Are we going to let Matty and his ilk define our society? Or are we going to demand the societal and legal changes necessary: mental health care, resources available for educators, gun law changes (no, I'm not advocating doing away with them entirely) and an open discussion on where we are going as a society?

[varkam]

1. Tastes like more blaming the victim trite to me.

I think Matty might be channeling Ayn Rand.

[AZBlue]

2. Or Rush Limbaugh!

[depakid]

9. Matty will be singing a different tune in the coming decade

as will most of the people who think like that. When the chips are down, they're invariably the ones who whine the loudest.

[karlrschneider]

3. Matty is 100% correct.

No real liberal would ever counsel people to cower in abject terror when threatened.
Bushco sure does push that with its nonstop "terror" warnings, though.

[AZBlue]

4. But many did stand up to him.

I didn't hear where anyone cowered in terror. Students and teachers blocked doors, some jumped instead of staying in the way and so on. They took what action they could - there's only so much you can do when you are faced with a person with two guns who's hell-bent on killing you. They were trapped but not of their own doing.

[karlrschneider]

6. Smashing his head in with a chair or shooting him would be "standing up."

Jumping out a window isn't.

[KingFlorez]

13. He had a gun, how could they do any of that?

The point is, some people tried to block doors so others could get out, that was doing something. There aren't a lot of options in a situation like that.

[karlrschneider]

14. Well, call me crazy but if he was shooting in some direction other than mine,

I'd have cold cocked him with a chair. Don't you think -some- attempt at defense is better than none at all? Apparently some DUers don't...a lot of them seem to believe sitting there waiting to be murdered is a nice way to go out.
:eyes:

[KingFlorez]

16. edit

[Ghost in the Machine]

17. I'd be right there with you dude... I ain't going out like that...

The ONLY way someone is gonna kill me without a fight is if they kill me in my sleep. People can say their "live chicken/dead duck" bullshit all they want to, but it doesn't wash with me. Sitting duck was more like it in this case.

Someone posted upthread that "some were holding the doors shut..." ... I would have had someone jerk the door open while I was standing beside it and smashed his head in when he came through. Of course, I've been in situations where bullets were flying before. I know some people freeze up and others run, due to fight or flight instinct. MY instinct is to fight. I'm all about my own survival... keeping myself alive as long as possible. I'm no pacifist, I'll tell you that much.

[karlrschneider]

19. It's odd how many DUers will (properly) attack the fundies for their hypocrisy

and dismiss their theology but will take "turn the other cheek" so literally it becomes a path to martyrdom. Fuck that.
Talk about cognitive dissonance.....:eyes:

[WiseButAngrySara]

5. And how many Buchco's actually serve in the wars that they

create? They are the real cowards.

[karlrschneider]

7. Yes, they are cowards too.

So?

[Leopolds Ghost]

11. I agree with you. But what does self-defense have to do with "coddling the victim"?

Cho needed treatment. Saying that people who are "not viable" should be consigned to some urban dumping ground where they can "kill each other off" is a typically republican notion.

That said, there's a number of things they could've done to disarm this guy. Sure, don't get in his line of fire. But most armed people -- cops and robbers -- rely on terror to get their way, not accurate application of deadly force. Jump him. With a chair or desk, as mentioned.

[salin]

12. yep, blaming the victims is always a winning position.

I am not "counseling people to cower in abject terror", but nor am I ready to condemn those who freeze to bearing the responsibility for their death. Hope I am misunderstanding the sentiment of the post ...

[karlrschneider]

18. So what exactly would you counsel potential victims to do?

Nothing? That's pretty much what they did. Maybe those building should have had more windows to jump out of.

[Canuckistanian]

8. Ugh, the "life is nasty, brutish and short" mentality

And only the strong and "self-sufficient" survive.

With that one statement, the whole Christian ethic is thrown away.

And yet, I'm betting that Matty is a self-described "Christian".

[Leopolds Ghost]

10. He is probably a Calvinist, i.e. heretic who believes in salvation by predestination. n/t

[bemildred]

15. I don't remember anybody teaching me any of that stuff.

I think Matty is ignorant and full of **it, and way overcompensating too.

I thought society was based on cooperation and teamwork and interdependence, and now Matty tells me its all about not needing anybody. Mickey Ds isn't going to appreciate it when Matty tells them "Screw you, I'm self-sufficient" now is it? He could lose his job with that kind of talk.