Would you admit reading "Atlas Shrugged" and admitting it's a pretty good book?

[Hawkeye-X]

One of my FB friends is reading this - admittedly not really a friend, but an associate with my culture.

Hawkeye-X

[Lithos]

1. No

It's crap.

[Johonny]

19. +1

[StopTheNeoCons]

32. +2

[GCP]

53. +3

[blondeatlast]

77. Wrong place, but I read it and it's AWFUL. nt

[MinM]

68. Atlas Shrugged is a dreadful novel; anyone who thinks it is literature has no sense of literature -

soupkitchen 09/15/09

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=481192&mesg_id=481294

Atlas Shrugged is a dreadful novel; anyone who thinks it is literature simply has no sense of literature.

There's a great clip of Bill Buckley being interviewed, maybe by Charlie Rose, where he talks about having to literally whip himself in order to continue reading what is truly a dreadful book (which was pretty much my experience.)

During the interview Buckley told of a personal falling out with Rand over a rather dismissive review by Whittaker Chambers (yes that Whittaker Chamber) which appeared in National Review.

http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501...

Anyway, the point is even Conservatives with brains know that Rand is essentially an evolutionary dead end.

:applause: :headbang: :woohoo:

[phasma ex machina]

91. Reading Rand as a form of self flagellation. OK. That works for me. Props to Buckley. nt

[blondeatlast]

80. +4. nt

[leftstreet]

2. Only if I were trying to get Ann Coulter to go to bed with me

And I'd rather ram a lead pipe through my brain than do that

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[imaginary girl]

3. I loved Atlas Shrugged

But it's a book based on ideals instead of reality.

[SharonAnn]

37. I loved it when I was 17 and didn't know much. Now I think of it, smile, and shake my head.

The characters are fairly wooden and 2 dimensional and it's not a well-thought out philosophy (lots and lots of holes in it).

But, it was fun while it lasted.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

103. Ideals? The main heroine sleeps with all 3 main hero's. That's Rands' Ideals.

Whata Slut.

[Bucky]

106. I wonder if you can offer a criticism without stooping to sexist reactionary hate speech

It's an allegory about a woman making a choice between three different viewpoints, as represented by three different men. The plot occurs over a period of several years. Getting romantically intangled with each of them is not exactly a morally repugnant way for an author to illustrate that point. Surely you can come up with a more substantive critique of what is, by all accounts, a wretched book with a poorly developed philosophy other than a woman who sleeps with only three different men in her life is a "slut."

[dmallind]

4. I've read it sure - but it's bombastic nonsense. NT

[Neecy]

5. No, because it wasn't.

I read it in high school and while it kept my attention I found it pretty repulsive. I was shocked that such a cartoonish ending came from a mature writer.

[Karia]

47. Yes, I read it in HS too.

It was recommended by a friend who loved it. I hated it, and finished it only so that I could discuss it with her.

[tabatha]

6. I read it years and years ago -

thought it was a page-turner, but in a superficial and unrealistic way.

[Mojambo]

7. See my sig. n/t

[MissB]

13. + a billion

Awesome sig, and spot on!

[Hawkeye-X]

18. That sig rocks!

:)

[mdmc]

59. I've read your sig a couple times

:toast:

[Maeve]

65. That is a WONDERFUL sig!!!!

This from a woman who has kids with the middle names "Aragorn" and "Arwen"....

[blondeatlast]

83. I lol'd. nt

[David Zephyr]

127. I like your sig.

Classic.

[babylonsister]

8. I read a lot of Rand when I was a teen, enjoyed it, but had no idea about

the political connotations. I suppose I need to re-read now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

74. Ditto!

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. No

[Rhiannon12866]

10. I admit to having read it...

But I couldn't make it through to the end. That 200-page speech totally did me in. And I was 16... x(

[HarveyDarkey]

117. ***

[Rhiannon12866]

128. +1

Wish I could pass this on to my uncle. He was an Ayn Rand fan and was very pleased when he learned I was reading her books. Later on, when I was in college, I came home with "Walden II," assigned reading for a psych course, and he was noticeably disturbed that I was now reading that... Wish I could discuss all of this with him now, but he died in 1993. :-(

[Hello_Kitty]

11. Got through about 5 pages and threw it across the room.

Sorry, not a fan of lengthy and pointless soliloquies.

[redqueen]

96. You reminded me of Dorothy Parker's famous quote...

thanks.

[JanMichael]

12. I read it years ago and thought it sucked.

Bad to mediocre writing and bad to worse politics.

And I'm an athiest/agnostic like the author. However I don't think her writing was very good nor do I appreciate her adherence to the virtue of selfishness.

Rand sucked then and still sucks.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. No. I tried reading it in college, couldn't finish it.

It's boring, tendentious and badly written.

[rwheeler31]

15. It was assigned reading.

When I went to college.

[Luminous Animal]

Why? Was it presented as an example of how not to write?

Holy hell, the book is riddled with tortured syntax, preposterous monologues, flatfooted plot devises, and cringe-worthy grammar.

[blondeatlast]

84. Hell, I had to read the Celestine Prophecy for--wait for it--a GRAD English education class.

I only wish I were joking.

[Ignis]

107. ...

:spray:

Oh man, I wish you were joking, too. Hey, at least it makes for a good anecdote :D

[JVS]

16. There was a period in my life when I was living outside of the country and craved large masses...

of English prose. I could read the foreign language and all, but there was nothing quite like slipping into the mother tongue for a relaxing read. I read Moby Dick and it was the fucking BOMB! I read Atlas Shrugged because it was available and nearly 900 pages. I read it on a long train ride to and fro. It was a reasonably interesting plot, but I had to skim Galt's massive 50 page monologue.

[dmallind]

Sorry but I think Moby Dick is one of the few classic books worse than Atlas Shrugged

480 pages of technical travelogue and whaling manual tied on to a 20 page Boy's Own adventure tale does not a great book make.

YMMV of course.

[JVS]

34. No. It's so awesome!

[dmallind]

36. Please (sincerely - not snarkily) tell me why

......because I'm buggered if I can work it out. And I like "serious" literature!

[JVS]

40. The book is like sitting by the fire with Ishmael and hearing him tell it all, and the man is funny

[phasma ex machina]

81. FWIW "Leviathan '99", Bradbury's SciFi "Moby Dick", rocks (me). nt

[Tumbulu]

17. I went on an Ayn Rand kick in the early 90's

I loved her books- mostly I was surprised to find that every one of her novels were about a woman with two lovers. It seemed so wild to think that woman characters would be so different back when those books were written.

And being a person who loves to work and is creative I got caught up in the characters.

I feel embarrassed to admit all this now. At the time I had no idea there was a political movement around these books. I just kept thinking about this odd writer, how she was about the age of one of my prim and proper aunts. I began to wonder about all the woman of my parents generation. Was it so common to have all these lovers while married? Among women that I know nowadays it is not.

[tonysam]

28. Well, there was probably a reason for that, as Ayn

had a husband and a boy toy on the side for many years.

[surrealAmerican]

69. Actually, a good biography of Rand would be much more interesting ...

... than her books. That would be a biography that does not try to make her a guru.

[Neecy]

70. Try The Passion of Ayn Rand

I read it a couple of years ago - it was written by the wife of the guy Rand slept with for years and it shows how truly deranged the woman was, right down to the purges of her inner circle for not being intellectually pure to her philosophy (just like the Stalinist purges she claimed to hate). A terrific read.

[tonysam]

109. Yep. It was written by Barbara Branden,

who was married to Ayn's boy toy, Nathaniel, who ended up cheating on both with a third woman and eventually married her. She later died.

I believe he is on his fourth wife now.

[Blue_In_AK]

20. I read it a long time ago

and enjoyed it for the story. I didn't really think too much about the philosophy behind it. Same with The Fountainhead.

[Thickasabrick]

21. Haven't read it just heard about it. Interesting bit of trivia...the past President

of BB&T (a regional bank in the south) is a devotee of Rand and this was required reading of every employee of BB&T while he was there. He's no longer there but he gives lectures about this around the country. Greenspan was a personal friend/follower of Rand.

I need to read the book just so I can understand this whole "going Galt" thing.

[GoCubsGo]

102. "Going Galt"

No need to read the book to understand it. Just keep repeating to yourself, "I got mine. Screw you." Rand devotees think they got their "wealth" through "hard work", and that everyone who isn't wealthy is poor because they are lazy parasites who make bad decisions in their lives. One of these assholes is a daily poster in the comments sections at my local newspaper's web page. He recently said that the elderly on Social Security are all a bunch of parasites who need to go out and get jobs. Seriously. At one point, I thought this guy was just a joker who was spouting crap like this to rile up the lefties who read the comments. But, I've come to realize he actually believes all the garbage he posts.

[havocmom]

125. LOL Have a female acquaintance who is a rabid Randian, and you describe her well

Life with first husband had her down in the dumps, literally. Living in a VW van with him selling drugs out of it. She knew she could accomplish so much more in life. Got a job with a group that works with kids of single parents so she could meet... single men and screen them. Went after one who was a local 'fortunate son' with comfy family business and security from what his parents built.

He screwed around on her and she put up with it, decades of it. See, it was not so bad for her because, as she admitted, she didn't love him, "but he was a really good provider".

So she dumped the pusher with no home and a bad ride, set out to nail a comfortable husband, put up with philandering because she married a "good provider" she didn't love anyway, and he could provide because of where his family was able to start him out in life.

But she just ADORED RAND and went about telling everyone how absolutely correct Rand was about poor people... Everyone with money had it because they were brilliant and worked so hard... the poor deserve their poverty.

Randians give me the willies.

[HeresyLives]

22. The book needed massive editing, because

there was so much repetition. By the time we get to John Galt's speech...it's tedious instead of stirring, because we've long since 'gotten it'.

However, I found it interesting overall and highlighted several of the points.

But then I didn't read it as a business manifesto, or a political statement. I saw something quite different in it.

[prairierose]

23. I tried to read it years ago...

couldn't finish it. I thought it sucked, and was badly written.

[lukasahero]

78. ^^^ what she said ^^^

It's the only book I've ever not been able to finish. And I read a lot.

[tanyev]

100. I tried to read the Cliff Notes and couldn't do it.

My free time is too precious to waste it reading dreck.

[Kutjara]

24. It's the bible for disaffected adolescents...

...of all ages.

[bridgit]

25. Been years, had to in college, and the memory was nearly gone till I seen this post...

:rant:

[ashling]

26. Her writing is mediocre at best

:shrug:

[Sebastian Doyle]

27. I suspect we have at least one Rand groupie on this site

No names mentioned, but when you see someone openly shilling for nuclear war, and claiming he doesn't care how many children die, well that's right out of a Randian wet dream.

[Saboburns]

29. Atlas Shrugged is a book I started but never finished, And I started it twice.

It's boring as hell.

Quite a few people forget it's fiction.

Poor girl can only get hot for wealthy dudes.

Kind of a bad soap opera.

Really bad.

(Jebus I can't spell)

[Libertas1776]

30. My only response is the same as South Park's Officer Barbrady...

Yes, at first I was happy to be learning how to read. It seemed exciting and magical, but then I read this: Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read every last word of this garbage, and because of this PIECE OF SHIT, I am never reading again.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. a) yes b) piece of shit

It is turgid awful idiotic crap.

[KG]

33. one of the few books i just couldn't finish.

[juno jones]

35. The one-dimensional virility of her male protagonists

always bugged me.

And her style of breathlessly reminding the reader of their raw dynamism (and red hair) remended me of high school girls writing about their latest crush. The fact that she found it necessary to constantly return to it was sophmoric in my eye, mind you I was in high school myself when I read her stuff. Rand sometimes sounds in those books like she is wanking to her fantasy dream man, not a pleasant thing to envision for sure.

To this day that's probably all that sticks in my mind about her stuff.

[SharonAnn]

39. I remember that her women didn't "own" their sexuality. They had to be practically raped.

[Greyhound]

38. Read it, yes. It was some of the worst written tripe I've ever had the misfortune

of plowing through.

I actually found myself remembering the worst parts of so I could begin a list.

Shoot me, please.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. My credibility sucks as it is. Rabid anti-Atlas Shuggery ain't gonna help it any.

So, I'll say this without qualification: When I read it while laying in my rack on an Aircraft Carrier when I was 21, I thought it was a true page-turner. I don't have a problem separating my politics from fictional stories, and at the time hadn't had my political birth anyway.

I liked it.

[burning rain]

42. I would if it were.

But it's a piece of shit--adolescent hero-worship and self-worship.

[amborin]

43. i read it & liked it as a kid; (liked her others, too)---but I was a catholic then, too....

[thelordofhell]

44. It's one of the funniest books I've ever read

The only thing funnier is trying to have a discussion with a "Randian" without cracking up in their face.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sonias]

45. Nope

Couldn't even get past a few pages. Crapola at its worst. Didn't waste my money on it either. Just picked it up to read at a book store. :puke:

Even worse it's being made into a movie. For people who wouldn't bother to read it but already believe it's the second bible.

Just like all those people who love quoting the bible when they've maybe read 3 or 4 scriptures. But they know what it says. :eyes:


Sonia

[MilesColtrane]

46. The reason I haven't read "Atlas Shrugged" is because I read "The Fountainhead" first.

[FormerDittoHead]

57. Same here. Saw no point in reading Atlas. PS: the movie was a joke.

GOD was that Fountainhead a bad movie.

I know this won't be popular, but I never 'got' Gary Cooper. I always thought he was BORING - monotone. Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda - THOSE are actors.

So when the courtroom scene (and Rand wrote the screenplay, lest her ideals be tampered with by compromising collectivists) came, I tried and tried to get it, watched it like 3-4 times, but BOY what a bunch of rambling dribble that scene was.

If I had been on that jury, Roark would STILL be in jail...

As others have written about Atlas, by the time you get to the end, you've been told the same damn thing like 20 times. WHY would someone subject themselves to taking yet ANOTHER dose by reading yet another book?

[Sparkly]

110. You mean you didn't like the part where Patricia Neal fell on the floor and Gary Cooper laughed?

She was so devastated with devotion and undone by his strength, and he became the champion -- didn't that just make you swoon??

No, huh? :rofl:

[sarge43]

114. Nah, but the subtle symbolism of Neal's loooooonnnnnnng

elevator ride up the skyscraper's side while Coop stands at the top, legs apart, watching her ... well, just pass me the smelling salts and call me Victoria.

[JCMach1]

58. We have a winner!

[Brickbat]

87. Me too. I was amazed at what a piece of crap it was.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. No, I read it, but it sucks

it's dreadful, turgid, overly long, and the characters are all incredibly one-dimensional caricatures.

Rand had no interesting or original ideas; all she had was a violent (to the point of being psychotic) aversion to anything that had the vaguest whiff of socialism, becuase her family lost everything to the Bolsheviks. Oh, and she also had creepy sexual issues. (Her female protagonists always get raped by strong, masterful men, and rather like it.)

[Feron]

49. I read the book in high school.

And I don't care to read it ever again.

I wouldn't begrudge someone for liking the book because everyone's taste is different. Jumping on the Objectivism bandwagon is another thing entirely.

[omega minimo]

50. In high school

[StarfarerBill]

51. Not only no, but hell no.

I've leafed through it, read snippets, and have come to the conclusion that it is what Rand's critics say it is: a steaming pile of dung, technique-, philosophy-, and ideology-wise.

[mwb970]

52. Long and boring.

I started it when I was in school but it was just too, too tedious to waste my time on. I did make it through Anthem, though.

[Toucano]

54. It's okay. Provocative.

Not great literature, but better than most Stephen King stuff.

It is absolutely not the basis for any kind of political philosophy.

It's like basing your philosophy on "The DaVinci Code" or something.

[Ikonoklast]

55. Read it. It is drivel.

Can't understand the appeal of that steaming pile to so many.

But then again, it kinda explains Palin's appeal to the witless.

[asdjrocky]

56. It's not a good book.

I've read it. It is simply not a good book.

[alarimer]

60. I've read it but it is not a good book.

Badly written, terrible plot and characters I hated.

[baldguy]

61. Yes, I have read it. And No, it is not a good book.

It's at the level of Hubbard's Battlefield Earth or Heinlein's Time Enough For Love - cardboard characters in an over-the-top melodramatic plot acting in an surreal landscape.

In short, it's a typical '50s-era pulp novel.

[rantormusing]

62. sure

I plan on reading it again some time in the future because I need some pop reading to get my mind off the world. It's a decent book, my biggest gripe is the hammer she uses to drive her political points home, unnecessary. I stand by we the living pure story fun. I'm gonna leave with two lines from ayn, "there are some laws we can't help but break" and "I will pay you back and with a fair interest rate.". The interest rate line is given by a guy from one of her plays, he is not rich by any means, but the line leaves me thinking she wasn't advocating usery. Even ayn Rand said, a fair interest rate.

[hobbit709]

63. Boring, put me to sleep.

[Tracer]

64. Honestly, I don't remember the difference between...

... Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.

I know that as a parochial school, naive 16-year old I read one or the other --- maybe both, and was duly impressed.

But that was years ago, and you probably couldn't find a more left wing, middle-aged woman than me.

[viscrente]

66. Yes

I actually just read it... It is nice to see what the other side uses in their arguments... It was a good book. I don't agree with all of it of course... But I do actually tend to agree with the "laissez faire" approach in dealing with most business. I have always said that if you don't like Wallmart then the best way to hurt them is too not go there.

[immoderate]

101. Let's suppose...

That Wal-Mart eliminates competition with unfair practices. Going there is your only option. How does laissez faire deal with that?

--imm

[varelse]

67. Why would I lie?

I read the book while still a child in elementary school. I wasn't impressed with it then and I have no desire to re-read it.

[mrs_p]

71. embarrassingly, i don't even know who

ayn rand is... and i was a lit major. doesn't sound like i missed anything, though.

[Dogtown]

72. I read it when quite young and impressionable.

Had to force myself to finish it and I read prodigiously at the time.

She drones...

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. I admit to every book i read and enjoy

I just would not expect the literature snobs to appreciate that a book that moves or inspires me meets their distorted view of what a good book is.

[Gabi Hayes]

118. is that along the lines of "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like?"

[Vidar]

75. I liked it as a teenager. I grew up.

[Renew Deal]

76. Yes

If I read it and I thought it was "pretty good." I haven't done either.

[Orangepeel]

79. never read it. I read the Fountainhead in high school, but I have virtually no memory of it

I know it was about an architect, and I think he tried to design buildings that made sense with the surroundings, but I could be making that part up (that doesn't sound very Randian to me now).

I know I read it because there was a scholarship essay contest about it. I never wrote an essay, even though I badly needed scholarship money and I was pretty good with that kind of stuff.

I must have thought the book sucked if I couldn't write anything about it.

[Bertha Venation]

82. I liked it when I read it about fifteen years ago.

I don't want to re-read it. Not interested.

I also read "The Fountainhead" at the same time and wondered why a woman found rape to be acceptable, let alone writing about it as if it were okay, as if the character who was raped was okay with it.

[phasma ex machina]

85. It offers a few interesting ideas to those who can endure long, boring, poorly written prose. nt

[Pisces]

86. Read it a long time ago and I liked it as a fiction novel.

[negativenihil]

88. I've read it.

But i also thought it was drivel. So many pages, so many words... saying so so little.

[FlaGatorJD]

89. Yes, and doesn't anyone else see the irony in conservatives liking it?

At the core of Objectivism is the dismissal of a supreme being. So now
conservatives are reaping praise on a full-blown atheist?
When I read it about 20 years ago, I was focused more on Rand's
premise that man/woman is the ultimate being.

I'm flabbergasted that this book has now become part of the conservative
lunative fringe.

Even though I didn't agree with all the anti-regulation stuff,
I found the story and characters compelling. Found the same in Fountainhead.

[Swamp Rat]

90. I read "Atlas Shrugged" in middle school, and then "Fountainhead" as an undergrad in college.

Both are awful, and at the time of reading them I felt proud of myself for completing both books.

It's on par with the crap written by L. Ron Hubbard.

[MNDemNY]

92. I've read it.

Kind of a bore, Rand is a dry writer.

[mitchum]

93. Charlie Manson was better songwriter...if we are comparing the artistic outputs of...

crazyass cult leaders

[TexasObserver]

94. No. I'll admit I read it, and admit it is a steaming pile of delusional horse shit.

Ayn Rand was a lot of things, but a good writer wasn't one of them.

She's the L. Ron Hubbard of rightwing delusionals.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

95. I'm reminded of the South Park episode with the Chicken Raper.

[hatrack]

98. Like saying "Would you admit seeing the color green and admitting that it's actually yellow?"

I tried to read it and

(drum roll, please):

it SUCKED.

[AlienGirl]

99. I read it because my high-school crush loved Ayn Rand; it was like wading through a fetid swamp

The characters had less depth than the extras in a Woody Woodpecker cartoon, the prose was turgid, the dialogue preachy, and the "philosophy" was odious.

Tucker

[treestar]

104. I admit I read it

But it is not a good novel. Cartoonish.

[Bucky]

105. What about "Anthem"? Was it any better?

One of our English teachers assigned it to her classes this semester. When I teach the 1950s next semester, I plan to catalogue all the clueless, meanspirited tools who claim they were "influenced" by Ayn Rand's philosophy.

[mitchum]

124. Self edit: replied to wrong post...sorry

[rantormusing]

108. I could never make it through her nonfiction or the fountainhead,

but i have warm regards for her plays, atlas, and We the Living. I highly recommend We the Living, it's like a VC Andrews novel, but tamer and political. You can take her economics at fast value, or any value you choose, those who usually try to spread her beliefs, or talk about "Going Galt" really don't have a clue what she was about. She was a wonderful anti authoritarian, and for that reason alone, she kicks ass. Atlas is nowhere near the top of my favorite, or highly thought of books, but it is still straight in my opinion. Much better than what passes for popular fiction nowadays.

I don't really like the insinuation of being embarrassed by reading a certain book. Check out her plays and We the Living, it might influence your opinion of her. I really don't believe she was any type of economic authoritarian, and the asshats who espouse control by lenders/employers should really keep Ayn's name out of their salty mouths.

Peace

[zerox]

111. Atlas Shrugged is a terrible novel.

The writing is really poor, even disregarding the borderline sociopathic philosophy Rand promotes.

[csziggy]

112. I read it when I was about 13 and disliked the people in it

They all seemed so selfish.

[keep_it_real]

113. I read it and finished it and the Fountain Head

I thought she made her point. But the easy way out of Ian Rand is to just realize that hardly anything in existence is not the result of collective human actively from the highest building to putting humans in space and space craft in outer space to the building of the pyramids.

Human existence is a combination of individual and collective effort. The individual can't make it with out the collective and the collective can't make it with out the individual. But there has to be BALANCE between the two not extremes.

[salguine]

115. You mean even if I haven't read it?

[eShirl]

116. I was given it as a hs graduation present and never read it.

I did, however, read the other book I was given, "The Dragons of Eden."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden

[NMMNG]

119. I'll admit to reading it

It's crap.

[avaistheone1]

120. That was one of the emptiest, most souless books I ever read.

I was chilled just holding the book.

[VOX]

121. Would you admit to stepping in horseflop and claiming it's really a pretty pony stuck on your shoe?

I'm sorry, these things are so subjective.

I find Rand's writing to be puerile, turgid, overwrought and badly dated -- but that's just me. :toast:

[VOX]

122. Would you admit to stepping in horseflop and claiming it's really a pretty pony stuck on your shoe?

I'm sorry, these things are so subjective.

I find Rand's writing to be puerile, turgid, overwrought and badly dated -- but that's just me. :toast:

[VOX]

123. Wow! My first DU Two-fer! n/t

[David Zephyr]

126. I read all of Rand's books when I was a teen and in my early twenties. Atlas Shrugged is a joke.

The only book that she wrote that was remotely entertaining was The Fountainhead. At the very least, her characters were entertaining.

Her preachy, cardboard cut-out characters in Atlas Shrugged was an early version of Fox News with Roger Ailes sock puppets.