David Sirota: What percentage of those kids in the audience will die because of this decision?

[Bluebear]

- Why do so many pundits and pro-Obama activists continue to focus on how "hard" and "difficult" and "trying" this decision is for President Obama, rather than on how "hard" and "difficult" and "trying" this will be for the soldiers who are killed? Doesn't Obama get to make this decision, and then go home to the comfortable confines of a butlered White House, while thousands of Americans will be sent 7,000 miles from home to face their potential deaths? Isn't the latter "harder" than the former?

- Where's the antiwar movement and the marches and the organizing and the protesting? Where's all those well-funded groups that protested George W. Bush's war policy? Or was all that really just about hating George Bush and embracing blind Partisan War Syndrome?

- In the days and weeks after this speech, will the White House's cynical new spin get ever more desperate and become, hey - at least an Afghanistan escalation holds out the possibility of making sure military combat casualties start outpacing military suicides?

- Simple budget question: Should we now believe that escalating the Afghanistan War at the same annual cost of universal health care will save more than 45,000 Americans a year (ie. the number of Americans who die every year for lack of health insurance)?

- Did CNN really turn a move to potentially send thousands of Americans to die in Central Asia into an over-stylized, hyper-marketed television show called "Decision Afghanistan?" Is the media really that soulless, or did my eyes betray me?

- Which is worse - a stupid person like George W. Bush starting a dumb occupation, or a smart person like Barack Obama following the lead of that stupid person, but actually escalating that occupation?

- The "we're going to escalate war to end war" refrain throughout the speech - have we heard that before somewhere? It sounds sorta like "we'll burn down the Vietnam villages to save them." Just curious if that's what we're talking about here - because, ya know, that worked out really well.

- Are we really expected to believe that massively escalating a war is the way to end a war? I mean, really? Like, is the public really looked at like we're that stupid? And a follow-up question: Are we really that stupid?

- If Obama's Afghan War strategy about escalating a war to end a war was a self-help strategy for, say, alcoholics, wouldn't it prescribe drinking more whiskey to stop drinking - and wouldn't we all laugh at that?

- How many pundits will insist that bowing down to the Military-Industrial complex and escalating this missionless war somehow shows "resolve" and "strength" and "toughness" and "leadership" and not embarrassing weakness?

- Would the Obamaphiles now telling us to "give President Obama a chance" with this decision and/or defending Obama's escalation - would these same people be saying we should "give President McCain a chance" and/or defending President McCain's escalation if he was the one in office making this decision?

- I'm confused: Is this hope or change?

http://www.openleft.com/diary/16271/some-questions-after-obamas-speech

[debbierlus]

1. Keeping their illusion of Obama alive is more important then facts and policy decisions

They fall in line.

[Bluebear]

7. You said it.

[emilyg]

21. +10

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. That seems to be the case and how sad is that?

[closeupready]

29. Yep.

K&R

[LakeSamish706]

2. Would he have come to the same decision if his daughters were in jeapordy...

of being shipped out to Afghanistan? That is one question that I would like to have an answer to.

[DJ13]

3. - I'm confused: Is this hope or change?

or




I cant tell.

[Bluebear]

4. you're fast :)

[omega minimo]

5. That's what this "bleeding heart liberal" wants ta know.

[rtassi]

6. You know they wouldn't ... and it is neither Hope or Change Just more BS n/t

[branders seine]

8. careful!

the cheerleader-forum cop thread-locking teams are out in force!



Yay Obama! Kill the evil doers! Yay!

[FrenchieCat]

9. Is he talking about abortion?

:wtf:

the MSM is against Obama no matter what his decisions are, just like the party of No, i.e., the teabaggers....so they aren't about to try to sell us Obama's message, because it is more important for Obama to fail. Obama just gave us a withdrawal date, and the extreme Left still want to piss on him. The man can't win....


Talking about soldiers like they are unborn fetuses gives me the creeps.

Soldiers are paid to fight. They join to serve.
They have known that we were at war for the last 8 fucking years.
A large segment of them voted for George Bush and Dick Fucking Cheney Twice!
They ain't no fucking embryo. These folks know what they are doing,
and they don't need your mouthful of protection
as much as they need your tax dollars so they can earn a decent living
considering what they have to do.

Like the police and firemen, they protect us....
and what we are supposed to do is put someone in the White House
that is going to have a strategy, goals, the right equipment and a fucking end game
before ordering anymore of them into the 8 year old theater of that Afghanistan has been.

Don't use soldiers as the reason that what Obama is doing is wrong...
they don't need to be used in that way.
Not after 8 years of George Bush, they don't.
I suggest that we not wrap ourselves up in the flag or the uniform....
which is exactly what that piece does!

[Bluebear]

10. Yes, we know, he must think Obama is a janitor or OJ Simpson.

:crazy:

[frylock]

23. would you support this strategy if it were mccain's?

simple question.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Enough to build a pretty monument over to excuse another lost war.

[WeDidIt]

12. Lord Privy Douchenozzle Sirota speaks

:eyes:

I can hardly wait to hear what Lord High Douchenozzle Greenwald has to say.

:eyes:

[noise]

16. And they earned your derision by doing what exactly?

Holding Bush and Obama to a consistent standard?

[WeDidIt]

18. By b eing complete and total Douchenozzles. n/t

[QC]

19. Blaspheming its lord and savior. n/t

[Bluebear]

31. :O

[C_Lawyer09]

13. West Point Officers

Are volunteers plus. And the usual tired argument can't be made that they were poor saps with no other options but to join. Secondly, and it's a point usually ignored by many du posters, that contrary to popular belief, many American service men and women actually believe in the cause/s that they fight and/or deploy for. This could be a relief mission to Darfur, Somalia, Honduras, Haiti, or a deployment to Afghanistan. Bear in mind, my argument is not for or against Afghanistan, but for a voice that is rarely heard on du. I say this as many friends are coming back from, and heading off to Iraq and Afghanistan. I make this point because it often seems according to the self appointed service members voices, they want anything but to deploy, and just joined to further their lot in life which was lacking before they joined.

[AVID]

14. you said it well...thanks

These people in this thread don't really think much.

They are "one agenda" internet junkies who get off on churlish commentary that makes them feel better.

Very pleased none of them are in any position to make a difference outside of DU.

[Bluebear]

15. 'These people in this thread don't really think much.' - aren't you an arrogant shit?

Screw you and /ignore.

[emilyg]

22. I'll let you think for me -

'cuz you're so smart. How do you know some of us are not in any position to make a difference?

[closeupready]

30. self-delete

n/t

[Bluebear]

17. One of my best buddies just returned from Iraq.

he wanted to go as a chef, they made him a transport driver in and out of the green zone. He's 50, has 3 kids and was terrified and away from them for a year. He joined the National Guard to help in case of emergencies, or to do relief missions to Darfur, Somalia, Honduras, Haiti. I'm not unfamiliar with with his voice, which was agonizing to hear over the course of a year while he was in Iraq.

[C_Lawyer09]

24. I empathize with his situation

I spent the last four years of my Army career as an active duty recruiter. Contrary to the reputation as shifty salesman that dog most recruiters, most are a straight shooting lot. The national guard recruiter in my area kept ensuring people they wouldn't deploy, if they would, theyd be in the rear, etc. etc. it really is a damn shame when applicants get sold a bill of goods. Now, I will say, that in this day age and op tempo, many Soldiers end up driving and doing other duties besides their specific job, that's just the nature of the ugly beast. I used to print off the fine print of the National Guard "active first" program, so those whom were interested in joining the guard were aware that it is not the peace corps, or just relief missions or just stateside duty. Some read it, some didn't. The bad thing is most Nat'l guard guys and gals that deploy have less training, less equipment, and less esprit d' corps. Little known fact, as Cliff Clavin of Cheers used to say, most don't know it, but 2/3 of Army Recuriters are selected. It's kind of like being a cop. You perform a neccessary (in some peoples mind) evil, kind of like a cop. Like Joseph Wambaugh, the former cop author would say,if you want people to like you, be a fireman.

[Individualist]

20. K&R

[blueworld]

25. Well, I love Sirota & agree with 99% but is it fair to criticize CNN?

I mean, because of that show I learned that the Afghan National Army (tagging along with our troops) is filling their helmets with villagers' corn - STEALING it! Like most Progressives, I realize what an appalling attack on US foreign policy this is, plus undoubtedly the source of their hatred of occupiers. Plus I didn't realize they could even grow corn in that area.

Really, do you think the so-called "journalists" on Faux bother to educate like that? :sarcasm:

[Individualist]

28. CNN: Conservative News Network

[ensho]

27. I would have chained my boys to the basement wall if they had wanted

to go to West Point, Annapolis or the Air Force Acedemy.