why haven't ob/gyns stood up and protected women from the

[donsu]

anti abortionists?

yes, a few doctors have spoken out but why haven't the ob/gyns in mass spoken out to protect women?

why haven't the ob/gyns spoken against the insurance companies telling them they have no right to make medical decisions for women?

why haven't the ob/gyns spoken against Congress people who want and do make health decisions for women?

are they cowards?

are more of them anti abortionists?

are they ob/gyns in name only and don't really give a damn about their women patients?

anti abortion ob/gyns should put that information on their door plaques so women will know who cares about them and who does not.

it's time ob/gyns got a spine and took sides.

[rodeodance]

1. For the most part, the discipline of Medicine is very conservative.

[bmbmd]

2. Ob-gyns like

Tom Coburne?

[tanyev]

3. Scared of a nutso showing up at their office with guns a-blazing?

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. I don't think they want protestors outside their office and home.

And they don't want to worry about getting shot.

Can't say as I really blame them. The protestors are so violent that they could actually be putting their patients and themselves in harm's way.

[Ilsa]

5. I thought they took a stand with Congress. I thought they

issued reports and have testified to congress about this over the last few years, and how some women clearly need this form of termination to help protect their ability to reproduce in the future. I don't know how long it has been, though. And this was a court case -- Did anyone ask them to speak to the Supremes?

[Redbear]

6. The guys with guns who want to kill doctors to please God

have something to do with it.



Plus,when a doctor speaks up it draws more attention and harrasment to his patients.

[Xmark]

7. USSC decision

My feelings about this were cemented when I was pregnant with my first. I would never consider an abortion for myself, and thankfully, I never had a heartbreaking decision to contemplate. But I do remember thinking, what if someone came into the doctor's office where I was having my check-up and proceeded to tell me "how it was going to be". A stranger. Right off of the street. What would I think if that ever happened? I'd tell that person the get the hell out of my life....

Wouldn't anyone?

Even if they can't admit that to themselves?

[Longhorn]

13. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Like you, I was never faced with a decision but I did have a miscarriage between pregnancies. My view is that the next step after banning abortions is to police pregnant women and hold them criminally responsible if they have a miscarriage. They already do that, to some extent. I was devestated after my miscarriage and I can't imagine the pain if someone had accused me of doing something to cause it.

[Xmark]

14. Thanks!

I hope to post here often! I hope to have good conversations with everyone.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. AMA and medical schools are conservative. About 95% of them don't

even have a course in their curriculum on how to perform abortions OF ANY STAGE.

I'm not surprised. Besides, no abortion means bigger bucks with pregnancy office visits, birth, and if "lucky", C-sections.

[donsu]

11. so more ob/gyns care about making money and the patients are

just the means.

an ob/gyn should be a woman's best trusted friend.

we women have been scammed.

[sharp_stick]

20. Please provide even a little evidence.

Do you have anything to back up a statment like that. I don't think doctors are more conservative than anybody else, never have been.

I have taught in med school, never found it to be more conservative than anywhere else I've worked either. All OB/GYN residents were taught to perform safe abortions. Whether or not they performed them in their own practice, I have no idea but the students had to learn the procedures to move through residency.

[no_hypocrisy]

22. OK, my numbers & facts need change. This is the best I could provide under the circumstances.

The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, requires medical schools to teach abortion procedures to OB/GYN residents, but more than half of OB/GYN residency programs nationwide to not adhere to the requirement, and those that do have "huge disparities in how they carry that out." Many schools provide the instruction as an elective course, and some require residents to travel to different institutions to receive the instruction (Guido, San Jose Mercury News, 8/12).

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=12855

[sandnsea]

26. It is not required

Your med school may have required it, but med schools can opt out based on "moral" beliefs, and must allow students to opt out as well. It is an issue.

[sandnsea]

25. It's stigma & time

Please don't misrepresent what is happening with this issue. It's bad enough the way it is. It's like Howard Dean, he didn't want to have to deal with answering questions about performing abortions. Medical students don't learn how to do abortions because they don't have to, so it's one less thing taking their time. There is also very little in the medical journals due to the stigma.

Women will suffer from this knowledge gap and it's a serious issue. Please don't trivialize or distort it with nonsense about pregnancy being more lucrative.

[Dorian Gray]

31. Yeah

I don't think that anyone in my doctor's practice performs abortions unless it's a necessary D and C for health reasons. (But more for a post-miscarriage clean-up.) And I'm in NYC. And it's a huge practice. They are very willing to recommend a place to go if you need that service, but I know of few who perform abortions themselves.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

35. How DARE you say C-sections are "LUCKY" for the doctor???

C-sections are a matter of life and death. I am assuming you are male and have never had a child.

I am a very small person and had a planned C-section at term. My doctor was smart enough to know I was gonna need one long before I went into labor. I have heard horror stories of women who were in labor for two days, and the OB said, "Oh surprise surprise, I gotta do a C-section!". The doctor should be able to tell by the manual examination how large the woman is. The hole in your pelvis has to be four inches in diameter for a baby's head to get through, and mine wasn't. The doc's exact quote to me was "You aren't big enough to have a normal sized baby, let alone a big one." When I told them my hubby was six foot seven, they were amazed.

I had an eight pound healthy baby by C-section, and I was off work for four months beforehand and totally miserable just trying to breathe, and eat and sleep. An eight pound baby is HUGE for a short small boned person. I am five foot three. I thought I was going to explode and the baby was positioned head down, diagonally in my uterus and couldn't even kick me!!!

I would have DIED if it wasn't for C-sections. Do your homework!!!

[no_hypocrisy]

36. Lucky was quotated to demonstrate my irony toward the doctors'

own sentiments. I have known doctors who could have waited and allowed a natural childbirth, but instead, took their patients in a compromised position, and convinced them they "needed" a C-section. The price of the two procedures is quite different.

I wasn't trying to diminish the need for true C-sections.

[volstork]

37. Actually, the price is not that different

Most insurances pay what is called a "global fee" for all of the care given during pregnancy, labor, delivery and postpartum. The difference b/t vag and C/S delivery usually amounts to less that $200 in the end (i.e., what the Dr. is actually paid).

[stirlingsliver]

9. Some Do.

The doctor in Nebraska who was sued and whose case went all the way to the Supreme Court a few years ago (I think his name as Carhart) mounted a very agressive and very expensive defense of a woman's right to choose.

[Annces]

10. A different question

but why don't veterinarians and wildlife biologists stand up for animal rights? Activists are a special breed it seems. Although one of my idols, Albert Schweitzer did combine being a doctor with being a defender of the inherent rights of all living beings.

[kestrel91316]

16. Veterinarians dedicate their ENTIRE lives to making animal's lives better,

longer, and healthier. Usually for scandalously little pay.

I guess some people just can't EVER be satisfied. We have to be screeching harridans for "animal rights", too. Jebus H. Christ.

Meanwhile, "animal rights" activists have MURDERED one university veterinary college president that I know of. And every day we vets in private practice risk our lives to do our work - vets have nearly died of dog bites, plague, rabies, and countless other workplace hazards. A private practice vet has even died of plague. Still we keep on working.

But we're evil because we don't live our lives exactly the way animal "rightists" demand we do........

[BlooInBloo]

12. They just wanna practice... practice their LOVE on women...

:rofl:

[kestrel91316]

15. Uh, I think they probably value their lives and their families' lives.

They know that ANYONE in their profession who publicly supports abortion rights will be targeted and possibly killed.

That's what it has come to in this country.

[donsu]

17. cowards

nt

[kestrel91316]

21. Would you FORCE them to publicly state their views?

Funny, but I suspect the answer is yes.........

If you want to know if your obgyn supports abortion rights, ask in private.

[donsu]

23. why should their views be hidden?

nt

[CottonBear]

18. My OB-GYN will not even prescribe the Plan B pill.

I live in a liberal, blue college town but I once tried to get plan B and couldn't get it from my OB-GYN or the county health dept. I had to call Planned Parenthood (in another city - no offices here) and get a prescription for a pack of birth control pills (the alternate to Plan B is taking a certain number of pills all at once) phoned into the pharmacy for a $40 fee plus the cost of the pills. I have a good family practioner now and I think they would help me out if I ever needed Plan B.

I have some idea why something like 1 out of 4 teenagers in this town become preganant each year: high school drop outs, no accesss to sex ed, birth control or Plan B much less abortions since one would have to drive 2 hours to find a clinic.

[valerief]

19. They're busy spreading their love to women.

:sarcasm:

[Rosemary2205]

30. HAHAHAHAHA

:) :)

[0rganism]

24. three words: Dr. Barnett Slepian

any questions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Slepian

[Beausoir]

32. Maybe they don't want to be shot dead in front of their son while eating soup in their kitchen.

Any deranged individual can get a gun.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. Don't forget Dr. David Gunn and the clinic escort that were killed.

[volstork]

27. As an Ob/Gyn, I have a few things to say

I have practiced for 10 years in a conservative southern state; I did my specialty training in a large midwestern city.
I have performed abortions in the past, but no longer do due to harassment from anti-abortionists, some of whom are in the medical community. Abortion services are available in my community, and I refer patients who request such.

A first-trimester abortion is essentially a dilation and curettage (D&C)-- the cervix is dilated about half an inch, and gentle suction is used to remove he tissue within the uterus. This is the EXACT same procedure used for women who miscarry. It is a basic part of Ob/Gyn training; I learned to do D&Cs in medical school. "partial-birth Abortion" does not exist in any medical textbook. This is the term used to stigmatize dilation and extraction (D&E). This technique is NOT a standard part of Ob/Gyn training because it is rarely needed/used. It is not a pleasant procedure. I have had in 15 years of practice, 2 patient who required D&E; this is a reflection of the rarity of the procedure.

During my residency training, we as residents had the opportunity to staff one of the Planned Parenthood clinics in town. This was something that was optional and which was a bit "sub rosa" in that our program director did not know about it. Most people who staffed the clinic from our residency would take cabs to and from the clinic so as not to have their cars parked in the clinic lot. (Someone had had their windows bashed in by protesters.) Anyone who has not witnessed the actions of protesters at an abortion clinic would be absolutely floored by what these people say and do.

I agree that there are many physicians who are highly conservative, but in my years in medicine, I feel that those numbers are shrinking. Those who are staunch conservatives want to protect their interests, and vote for candidates who will do just that. However, I often tell people that I wish I really had all of the money people think I have. I pay $80,000 a year for malpractice insurance, and that makes a staggering impact on my take-home pay. Nonetheless, I am also staunchly Democrat, and have been for all of my voting life. The ONLY issue I agree with the repubs on is liability reform. Most physicians have their patients' best interests at heart. Most physicians are not "in it for the money" because managed care has seen to it that the money is no longer there. If I wanted to be a millionaire, I would have gone into business or computer science.

As Ob/Gyns, we are not cowards. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) has fought for years for womens' rights, and has issued strong statements in recent years regarding abortion legislation and regarding the FDA opposition (due to political pressure) to not release Plan B emergency contraception for OTC use. Our past president, Vivian Dickerson, MD issued an absolutely scathing statement regarding Plan B.

No_hypocrisy says, "Besides, no abortion means bigger bucks with pregnancy office visits, birth, and if "lucky", C-sections." I BILL $2600 for nine months of prenatal care, labor and intrapartum care (including cesarean IF needed), and 6 weeks of postpartum care. I usually COLLECT about $800. $800 for almost a year's worth of care, and high-risk (from a liability standpoint) care. The statute of limitations on Ob care runs 18 YEARS. This means if your kid doesn't make it onto the basketball team or onto the chess team, you can sue me for birth injury. I manage my patients based upon what their conditions indicate, not based upon my need to finance a new car, and I resent those who suggest otherwise. I am not trolling for sympathy-- I knew the stakes when I entered this profession, and I truly love my job or I would quit. I have spent my entire career being an advocate for my patients, and I intend to continue to be their advocate for the remainder of my life. I am very passionate about womens' issues, not only as an Ob/Gyn, but also as a woman and as a breast cancer survivor. I have seen firsthand how hight the stakes are, and how easily women get dropped through the cracks of the healthcare system. I was encouraged when Howard Dean ran for president, because I thought that might spur the medical community to become more involved in politics. ACOG does have a DC lobby, and is actively involved in legislation to advocate for womens' rights. I am only one, and I do not have all of the answers, but I do believe that the majority of my OBG colleagues do have their patients' best interests at heart.

[librechik]

29. Thanks, volstork, I was about to mention ACOG

and how staunchly they have fought this issue.

Thanks!

:loveya:

[Ilsa]

33. Thanks for the input. I know they have intervened as much

as they can. I used to help guide women from the parking lot into the clinics on Saturdays. I was part of the buffer zone. The anti-choice crowd was rude and crude and very threatening.

Regarding the money, the RWer crowd tries to claim docs do abortions for the money. :banghead:

[Xithras]

28. Most of the OB's I've met aren't exactly pro-abortion.

They tend to be part of the majority that states: "I don't agree with abortion, and I think it's wrong, but I don't believe in legistlating personal issues". I tend to fall into that same camp myself. Since OB's spend the vast majority of their time trying to help babies develop properly, they generally start looking at them as "people" fairly early on, far earlier than most pro-abortion activists would prefer. My wifes current OB has stated flat out that she believes second and third trimester abortions should be banned outright, except to save the life of the mother. It's an issue that a huge number of OB's are fairly conservative on.