What presidency did more damage to America-Bush or Nixon?

[Politics_Guy25]

Kind of a odd question but I wasn't around for the Nixon presidency but they seem to parallel each other in so many ways like:
1 Illegal wriretapping
2.Catastrophic wars in Iraq and Vietnam
3. Attemps to silence political opponents
4. Both believed that the presidency should be above the law and in the concept of the "unitary executive."
5. Both whipped up extreme prejudicie for their own political ends.

In some ways, especially with Nixon appointees Rumsfeld and Cheney being the ones in charge of both administrations, one could say that the Bush 43 presidency was simply the continuation of Tricky Dick's.

I would say that Nixon was probably worse because there was not a charismatic beloved figure like with incredible political and communication skills who came along to clean up his mess the way President Obama came along to clean up Bush's mess. Conversely, however, Bush left America's foreign policy and economy in ruins while Nixon essentially left America's political institutions in ruin but at least there wasn't 10.5% unemployment etc at the end of Nixon's watch compared to what Bush left.

Which presidency do you think was worse and did the most irreparable damage?

[omega minimo]

1. Yes

[Swamp Rat]

2. Reagan/Bush, Sr.

We could have healed as a nation after Nixon, but it has been downhill since 1980...

[EFerrari]

12. Exactly. n/t

[Xenotime]

42. Agreed. Nothing good came from those two presidents.

[saltpoint]

3. It's hard for me to answer because I don't have an objective opinion of

Nixon or either of the Bushes.

Nixon was relatively smart but evidently so paranoid that he hired thugs to break in to Daniel Elsworth's psychiatrist's office to dig up embarrassing stuff. Pretty serious paranoia at work there. And that's the least of it with Nixon.

The Bushes were superficial and deceitful, soulless droids with fat wallets. I hated them both.

[NYC_SKP]

Bush. We had more security and a more stable economic base during Nixon.

The Bush years were critical years that were not only squandered, but were used to make matters much worse.

We may never recover.

[Warpy]

4. Reagan

Although revenge over the near impeachment of Nixon certainly played a part in their failed impeachment of Clinton.

Reagan is the one who set the tax code to loot the whole country to lavish its wealth on just a few rich men.

Stupid was just there when it all came to fruition, although having Grover Norquist whispering in his ear about how bankrupting the country with more tax cuts and wars would allow him to get rid of social security certainly didn't insure a positive legacy.

[pauldg0]

22. I voted for Reagan....

....now history has proven he's a loser.

[Gman]

5. Nixon was an evil, dirty, rotten, no good son of a bitch bastard

but Bush took it to a totally different level. I would much rather have had Nixon than Bush. At least Nixon had some ethics.

[gleaner]

36. It is a hard choice .....

I lived through Nixon and he appalled me in new ways with every revelation, but in some ways he did have limits and recognized consequences. Bush on the other hand is like the black hole of humanity with enormous energy to suck in and destroy everything he touched without end or limit like the black holes in deep space.

So between those two, I would have to choose Bush. Nixon wanted to be Nixon and rule the world. Bush wanted to be Hitler and rule the world without end. He has come thisclose.

This is all without conceding that Obama has or is going to work miracles with what is left. My opinion is that he has not lived up to his campaign promises or his personal ability in dealing with the issues that are tearing us apart. I don't know why he can't or won't, but I do not believe it will happen with him whatever his reasons are.

[omega minimo]

6. Oh, and I'd recommend reading the OP with a heavy grain of sale before buying in.

[gateley]

7. Boy, I gotta agree with Swampy about Reagan but if just between Nixon and W,

I'm voting for Bush. He, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the pack are truly evil.

[Morning Dew]

8. Compared to W,

Nixon was a paragon of virtue.

That said, Reagan did a lot of damage and Bush 41 helped the downhill slide.

[Hannah Bell]

9. bush. no contest.

[cowcommander]

10. Nixon did secure and even improved a lot of the social programs from LBJ's Great Society

He doesn't get enough credit for that, he's probably the last liberal republican the country ever had as a president.

[notesdev]

11. Bush by a nose

Nixon did some terrible things to this country, not the least of which was closing the gold window, which set the stage for today's financial crisis.

[Poll_Blind]

13. I have thought about this before and I'd say without a doubt: Bush.

If Nixon is a model rocket of bad, Bush was a Saturn V rocket of idiocy. I was going to go into more detailed examples but you're probably familiar with them.

The key point here, for me, is that it will be decades until America really understands the implications of just how damaging the Bush presidency was. I genuinely believe that. Almost every day of the Bush administration, if one read the papers, was an encyclopedia heading of just about every form of graft, corruption, and mismanagement possible.

The Bush legacy is something whose damage cannot be easily summed up, either, because his corrupted methods and those of his cronies extend to touch almost every aspect, if not every aspect, of American life.

The easiest way is to describe Bush as America's Hurricane Katrina. We will go through Obama, one or two terms, and another 2-4 more presidents before anyone can get a solid grasp on how bad that fucker fucked us.

Nixon's legacy couldn't hold a candle to that even on its best/worst day.

PB

[Politics_Guy25]

26. This post above about sums up what I feel

I don't know what sparked me to think about this tonight. American political history is a passion of mine. The comparison between Bush and Nixon was largely formed in my mind because both left office with approval ratings of around 15-20% so they seemed to stand out as the 2 most unpopular presidencies of modern times.

I understand that Nixon was a relatively liberal republican but if you think about Watergate, the southern strategy, what he said on the W.H. audio tapes, it's hard to give him much more credit than Bush. His policies weren't Palin-esque I do grant.

Lastly, I just wanted to apologize if I offended anyone with this post. It was just meant to create a historical discussion.

[Poll_Blind]

38. Yeah, your message caused me to listen again to Nixon's conversation with Kissenger...

..., the now-infamous one where he tells Henry to "think big, for crissakes..." in reference to using the atom bomb on North Vietnam. Then, in searching I came across a moderated conversation on Fora TV (which is a really great resource) between Ellsberg and Dean about the Pentagon Papers, Nixon, whistleblowers in general and how those times compared to Bush and even Obama. It was really interesting- I wound up watching the whole thing.

You can check it out here: http://fora.tv/2009/09/15/Whistle-Blowers_A_Conversation_with_Ellsberg_and_Dean

For your question, specifically, I think you might get a lot out of watching the video too. Ellsberg and Dean give a kind of insight not found anywhere else and their comparison of the situation (then and now) is really interesting.

PB

[av8rdave]

14. Bush, IMO

Nixon was pure evil, but in his time, the system worked. When his abuse of power became undeniable, Congress did their job and forced his hand.

Bush is an interesting mix of evil and incompetence. However, he was able to do so much more damage because his party is now all about politics and power - not patriotism and service.

[47of74]

15. Nixon at least had the decency to resign

Nixon had a tiny bit of decency to him, which is a fuck of a lot more than I could say for that no good, four flushing idiot George W. Bush.

[rwheeler31]

16. Bush Jr. continued the ugliness.

They have been bad since regan.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. by the standards of those who followed him, Nixon should be up for sainthood

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

28. I guess you don't really know

How it all ties together.Bush is a extension of what was really going on in the Nixon white house.People in Europe knew what was happening but here it's odd,or even too terrible to believe.I suppose you don't know.

Check history about Nixon's ties to oil wigs ,back when they wanted Nelson Rockefeller to be vice president. Rockefeller said initially, I am not the vice presidential type.But you must go there in research to connect the dots. I mean who remembers vice presidents of Christmas past?nixon was assembling the power wigs.

In those days vice presidents did little or nothing, not a very powerful position. Rockefeller may have viewed himself as more presidential of a type, if it were within his interests.What did he do, did he except or decline?

Than there was Howard Hughes, who did not like Nixon at all, considered him unfaithful. Yet contrary to everything Hughes did to keep them out of his affairs, Hughes donated $100,000 to the Nixon reelection campaign. That opened the door to a FBI investigation into Hughes affairs because of a automatic invitation to the white house ,you know, for the hoopla.
Hughes number one man asked Hughes twice, are you sure you want to do this?
Hughes answered back, let him have it, it will be a means to his end. No one in Hughes inner circle had the slightest idea what Howard Hughie's meant by that, and his order was carried out.

Exxon ring any bells, oil reserves?
Do a little research through the hell of it, why not eh?

The europeans knew what was going on as a matter fact, they were terrified of Nixon. But over here, the public had no clue. I wonder why that is!Remember when G.W. Bush said, hay, they have more to worry about over there than we do over here. Yep, Bush was talking there, he sure put it to them.
And Blair kept caving.

The oil embargo was about gas rationing wasn't it? I remember something about that. Gas rationing stamps.Suddenly watergate,didn't ya ever wonder why Nixon stuck it out to the bitter end?Come on now congress was stripping the president of power, what was so important going on in the form of in house cover ups that required Nixon stay put until time ran out?Oh I know, you think he thought he could just beat it,you know like the song.
Than it all went away,but the price of gas at the pumps sky rocketed and has been doing so ever since.What's so important about getting those Nixon white house papers released anyway? Couldn't have anything to do with what was really going on in the Nixon white house years could it? I mean watergate was just one of those stupid mistakes that gets them caught. Don't you really want to know? Hay, sweet home Alabama .

Than came Jimmy Carter.Fallowed by Reagan than
Bush,than Clinton than Bush.See the dots? And President Obama inherited the mess we are in.And that's the hard part about excepting the truth for what it is.

[Lasher]

18. Are you kidding, Junior was the worst president ever.

Not just of the US, of anything.

[Old Codger]

19. Hell

Nixon was a piker compared to * , raygun and Sr. they each individually beat nixon

[Libertas1776]

20. Probably Nixon

and by extension Ford. It was because of Ford pardoning that dirty rotten son SOB that we had the likes of the Bushies. Pardoning that crook set the dangerous precedent that YOU as President could get away with anything and you would never have been called on it. And then when Ford croaked, the fixed media instructed us on how Ford, by pardoning Nixon, allowed the nation to heal and move on. BULLSHIT! This nation has never healed from that and has only gotten worse as a result exhibit A: Bush dynasty.

[TexasObserver]

21. Bush did more damage. He succeeded in undermining the Constitution.

Nixon did not.

Nixon was corralled. Nixon was found out and put out. Nixon was held accountable.

Bush walked freely. Bush was able to out a CIA agent, lie us into a war, engage in domestic spying, and generally undercut the country's 220 year history.

[Sirveri]

23. The real comparison is between Bush and Reagan.

I lean more towards Reagan with Bush as a close second.

[Louisiana1976]

24. Bush, because of his crimes against humanity in New Orleans.

First, early in his first administration, he cut funding for the Army Corps of Engineers so they couldn't maintain the levees.

And we all know what he did when the Federal Flood happened. He let that city literally drown and scattered many of her inhabitants around the country. Then he neglected her for the rest of his administration, leaving her to die.

[Sebastian Doyle]

25. Nixon/Reagan/Poppy/Chimpy = no difference.

All the Bush Crime Family. Pretty much the same cast of supporting thugs.

[Initech]

27. Nixon started the job, Reagan fine-tuned it, Bush finished it.

[Quantess]

29. George W. Bush

Worst President Ever. Nixon would have done a better job.

[FerverentlyCentrist]

30. Hyperbole is not becoming

That sort of statement is really quite silly. You're going to put him ahead of Ulysses S. Grant, James Buchanon, Woodrow Wilson (for the Alien and Sedition Act), John Adams (ditto), and Andrew Johnson?

[Quantess]

31. I wasn't thinking that far back in history.

(you meant Andrew Jackson?) It's difficult to compare the rotten-ness of past presidents with more recent ones. But, W practically flushed America down the toilet in just about every way that counts.

I still say that George W. Bush is arguably the worst president of all time. If you see that as hyperbole, then that's fine, but there are many people who agree with me, and I don't need to change my statements to appear more "becoming" to you.

Welcome to DU. I'm sure you'll last a long time.

[FerverentlyCentrist]

32. No Andrew Johnson...

The racist who kowtowed to the South at every point during reconstruction. And really I disagree, just look at Harding and Grant, they could toe-to-toe with Bush for irresponsible government and then some. Buchanon arguably could have averted the Civil War by reacting strongly to the South the Civil War might have been averted. Bush was bad, but 20 years from now I still think that a quarter of million deaths is still going to look worse.

[Raine]

33. Raygun ... that's when this country

started it's downhill slide and it's been sliding ever since further and further down. Raygun and his band of thieves were totally amoral, that's when this country lost it's civility and decency.

Edit: changed one word in subject line

[dysfunctional press]

34. reagan. without a doubt.

[aquart]

35. Nixon. He screwed us on healthcare.

[opihimoimoi]

37. The GOPiacs have a slew of inept candidates...but WBUSH is by FAR...THE WORST

[joeybee12]

39. Bush...Nixon was foul and evil, but he was gotten out of office proving

the system works...Dems today seem to be afraid of the system.

[PVnRT]

40. Bush

I tend to agree with with the good Doctor about him:

(Nixon) was the Real Thing, a genuinely educated football fan. I miss Nixon. Compared to these jerks we have in the White House now, Richard Nixon was a flaming Liberal. Dr. Thompson said that. Mahalo.

Richard Nixon looks like a flaming liberal today, compared to a golem like George Bush. Indeed. Where is Richard Nixon now that we finally need him?

If Nixon were running for president today, he would be seen as a "liberal" candidate, and he would probably win. He was a crook and a bungler, but what the hell? Nixon was a barrel of laughs compared to this gang of thugs from the Halliburton petroleum organization who are running the White House today -- and who will be running it this time next year, if we (the once-proud, once-loved and widely respected "American people") don't rise up like wounded warriors and whack those lying petroleum pimps out of the White House on November 2nd.

At least Nixon created the EPA.

[Union Yes]

41. Axis of evil - Raygun/Nixon/Bushco... nt