"Terry" 1970~1986

[Matsubara]

I went to school with rich kids like Cho ranted about and have seen how merciless they could be.

One of my classmates in PE, Terry, was constantly bullied.

Did the "cool kids" who put him in the trash can and gave him "swirlies" know that he was abandoned by his parents, living with an aunt and uncle who didn't want him and constantly told him he was worthless? Probably not. But they tortured him anyway.



He told me, though. And when Terry told me and my friend that he wanted to set himself on fire, my stupid friend suggested to him that he use a gun because it would be more painless. Did my stupid friend realize that Terry's uncle had a gun and that he would eventually use it?

No, but what he said mattered. And it mattered that I never did one damn thing to really reach out to that kid - even invite him over to my house to hang out one afternoon.

The worst part was how I found out he was dead. I saw the drop slip on my teachers desk and was surprised that Terry, an 'A' student would be dropping English.

When I asked about it, the teacher just said as dryly as if she was talking about a basket of laundry, "Oh, he's dropping because he shot himself to death."

I felt like a load of bricks had dropped on me, but seemingly nobody else in the school even noticed. No announcement on the PA, and his photo never appeared in the yearbook.


It was like Terry had just disappeared, like he had never existed. My stupid friend just laughed it off. Well, at least Cho made sure that people would remember him when he was gone.

Maybe Terry could have been diagnosed with depression. So what? Does that mean it's okay for other kids to terrorize him because he's small, geeky and had no social skills?



It really saddens me that people here want to stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalala" and act like all of us, from kids to the elderly, don't need to be a LOT kinder, more attentive, and sensitive to the people around us.

It's not about justifying what Cho did. It's about understanding what might have helped trigger it, and the fact that even little gestures can sometimes make a big difference.





(Edited for mistake in year of birth)

[Redstone]

1. There is NO fucking excuse for bullying. NONE. I don't know if that was really the case with

the kid whose name I will not sully myself by typing, but your Terry? I grieve with you.

There is NO excuse for bullying.

I got into a total of six fights in my four years of high school (not that I'm proud of that total). One was some asshole who tried to bully me. The other five were nailing assholes who were picking on other kids, usually in the locker room after gym class.

But hey, this was the 1960s, and the bullies were usually the popular jocks, so you can just imagine the trouble I got into.

Not to malign the "popular jocks" though; we do have this culture in America that says people who are good at sports are above the law. And in their defense, I do have to say that those five guys matured; every one of them has had a drink with me at one high-school reunion or another, and laughed about how they were astonished at how the skinny, brainy kid mopped the floor with them.

There's a core of good in most people. Even (ex-) bullies. But it's a goddamn shame that they can't find that core before they do the bullying.

Bullying is indeed a cancer, and a malignant one, in the school-age segment of our society.

Go easy, Terry. And all those like you.

Redstone

[tomreedtoon]

2. No excuse...but no way to stop it.

Basically, human beings are bastards. If you haven't learned that yet, you probably will, soon enough.

The only way for someone like Cho to avoid his fate would be to somehow find a way to turn his ostracism and lonliness into something. That occasionally happens. It happened to me.

But there's no way to "make" it happen. Psychiatrists are phonies. Psychiatric drugs are a cover-up (Cho was taking them, remember). And holding hands and saying "Kum-bi-ya" is an insult.

The only think you can do is that, when these things happen, try to prevent innocents from being hurt. Not by arming everybody, but by having people evacuate, shut down schools, call in the police for genuine intervention - which wasn't done at Virginia Tech.

[Redstone]

3. Hey, I'm in my fifties; I learned that a LONG time ago. About people.

However, I do NOT agree that "Psychiatrists are phonies," and ESPECIALLY not that "Psychiatric drugs are a cover-up."

Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, just EXACTLY as diabetes is a chemical imbalance in the pancreas.

Trust me on this.

Would you say that "Insulin is a cover-up?" Maybe it is, because it treats the symptoms instead of curing the disease, but right now NOTHING cures the disease. So we live with treating the symptoms, and are damned thankful that at least we have a medicine that can do that.

I know people who would be DEAD (via suicide) without antidepressant medications. So if you're going to indict "Psychiatric drugs" across the board, I don't think we need to have any further discussion.

Redstone

[Matsubara]

10. Are you a Christian?

I realize that Christians think that humans are inherently evil, but not all other cultures embrace that sick philosophy.

Humans are all born with good and evil in them, but personally I believe most of us mostly good, and I'm no spring chicken.

And that "kum-ba-ya" shit is tired - I hear it from right-wingers all the time, do we have to hear that here?

And police action is not "all we can do". Our society is dysfunctional in may ways. It's not stupid to want to work on that.

[tomreedtoon]

24. Well...basically, I'm a Collapsed Catholic.

Not a "lapsed Catholic," which the Church calls us, with the presumption that we'll come running back in fear sometime before we die. A Collapsed Catholic has seen the people he was told were licensed and bonded agents of Christ doing terrible things, to both individual people and to society at large. He's seen things that aren't simply hypocrisies, but betrayals of their beliefs. And this isn't simply the innocence of youth being made aware of how the real world works; it's a person who knows there is a sizable gray line between right and wrong, and who knows when that line has been crossed.

Of course, just like the Mafia and comic book collecting, a person never really quits being a Catholic. But Collapsed Catholics keep their beliefs in their hearts, while refusing to support the Church that supports those hypocrisies.

I'll put it this way. When a priest tells your sister that she can't divorce her abusive husband, but must pay a lot of money and take a chance that Rome might annul her bad marriage, otherwise she's going to Hell if she leaves him...you learn quickly the evil that lives in priestly robes. And you learn to recognize it on un-robed but equally sanctimonious people on the street.

And that's more talking about me than I intended to do, but I just woke up.

[Matsubara]

31. Well, that more than explains your cynicism...

I was raised pretty much religion free, which has it's good and bad points, but I've run up against the ugly side of life more times than I care to mention.

But I wasn't raised to believe that people are inherently wicked without Jesus' salvation, so I guess I still believe that there is good in MOST people.

But I have to confess, I have met a few people that seemed perfectly lucid and sane, but just, plain mean, for no apparent reason.

[rasputin1952]

12. The fights I got into when I was in school all involved taking

on bullies that were harassing others.

They got thier power by being in groups, whenever I'd pass one in the hall, and he was alone, invariably, they moved out of the way after they knew I'd stand up against them. But when there were several, suddenly the became "brave".

Bunch of sickening cowards, just like those who are callng for more war, but never served in the military. It is so easy to berate others...right up until someone stands up deals w/the situation.

It is a shame that this youngster had to go through what he did, sad that no one was there for him...:(

[RevCheesehead]

4. That's a heartbreaking story.

I knew someone like that. A few years ago, he was horribly beaten and left in the gutter to die. Rodney had a horrible life, and a horrible death. But for a few years, while he attended our church youth group, he also found hope, and a belief that maybe he wasn't worthless after all. Our youth pastor spent a lot of time teaching the rest of us that Rodney had value, and was loved just as much by God - and perhaps, even just a bit more. It made the rest of us sit up and take notice.

Thank you for sharing your story.

[Redstone]

6. Rev, I think most of us have known someone like that. And it's a goddamn shame

that so many of us do.

Redstone

[RevCheesehead]

7. Amen, brother.

It's all about the "walk a mile" thing, isn't it?

[Redstone]

8. It is that. It is, indeed.

Redstone

[idgiehkt]

5. I'm sorry about your friend

I feel like I may have read this in another thread, thanks for starting it's own thread. A boy in my sisters high school class, Jerry Armentrout, took his own life. RIP Jerry. He was very lonely. I don't know if he was bullied but I do know that he was 'unpopular', so to speack. :cry:

[piedmont]

9. These fuckers who don't believe bullying causes mental illness ought to read the OP

[Matsubara]

11. I certainly don't believe it causes it...

After all, millions of geeky kids are bullied, then grow up to live good productive lives.

But bullying could certainly exacerbate the symptoms and negative behaviors associated with mental illness.


If we all followed "The Golden Rule", things might have gone differently at VT, or maybe they wouldn't have. But it certainly is worthwhile to try.

[piedmont]

13. Out of curiousity...

do you think that if "Terry" hadn't been abused at school and at home that he might have led a normal life?

Thank you for posting this, by the way.

[Matsubara]

15. Honestly, from my limited observation of him, myself being very young...

I don't think Terry was mentally ill. He was in a terrible situation of being tormented at school, parents didn't want him and his aunt and uncle were abusive. He didn't have the love and support at home most bullied "geeky" kids have, zero, zilch, nada, so I think he just had no hope and gave in to despair.

I think if the kids at school had given him more of a break, or if he had had loving parents at home, he would still be with us. Would he be "normal"? Hell, I don't even know that I'm normal, but

I wish he had at least had a fighting chance. He was just 15, and he looked about 12. :(

[Oilwellian]

16. 15 is THE worst age for boys

Having raised 5 boys, I can assure you when they turn 14 & 15, hormones are raging. It is such a critical time for them to have mature, loving parents to guide them through.

I'm so sorry for Terry, my heart feels his suffering. I would love to see us teach all of our youngsters about empathy and make it mandatory starting in 1st grade.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

18. My son is on the brink of this age...

And he is fortunate to have loving parents and also a community where bullying is mostly not tolerated. He has also learned, from us and from some wonderful role models and teachers, that tolerance and kindness are virtues he should strive for.

But my son is sensitive, and I know there's pain ahead for him as the hormones start to kick in. I see it with my 15 year old girl too; there's a despair that awakens in many kids that just isn't there for most of them when they are very young. For most of us, it's just part of the transition to adulthood, but for some kids it leads to tragedy.

[piedmont]

17. The way I think of mental illness includes both acute and chronic conditions

By that way of thinking, it sounds like he was acutely mentally ill. I'm very sorry for what happened to your friend.

[Horse with no Name]

14. Just an observation

I think that it is literally a "Perfect Storm" when mental illness converges on someone who has been bullied and gives us what we just saw this week.
I am sorry for your friend Terry.:hug:
When I was in High School, one of our upper classmen went home for lunch and blew his head off. It's not something you ever forget.

[Faux pas]

19. Bullying should be a crime. Really, it should be against the law.

http://www.bullyeq.com/bullying%20and%20abuse.htm
Being bullied can be as debilitating in its own way as having your leg broken by someone. The bullying causes psychological injury (hurt feelings, loss of self esteem, depression or "complex post-traumatic syndrome") rather than physical injury. The bullying can be sustained over a very long period of time. The public's recommendation is often to just "move on" or to forget about the bullying, but the sense of injustice and injury can be as strong as if some broke your leg intentionally. It is no trivial matter. For example, every year in the UK at least 20 school children commit suicide because of bullying. Countless other school children are damaged psychologically by bullying. Bullying is a major cause of truancy.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Wouldn't it be considered assault if it were outside of school?

I don't see why you should be able to beat someone up without legal ramifications just because you do it at school.

[eridani]

23. Right. Rule #1--

--if you'd get fired for doing something to a co-worker, no student has the right to do the same thing to another student.

[Faux pas]

33. I don't understand it either. Violence should be nipped in the

bud in early childhood. If it isn't, the parents should be punished right along with their out of control children.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Bullying is a serious problem

But most kids who are bullied don't kill other people or themselves. Again, I'm not saying that to downplay the problem.

I think the thing that Cho and Terry had in common is that they had nobody who cared about them.

[donheld]

22. What becomes of the broken hearted?

:cry:

[wicket]

26. Amen

:cry:

[wicket]

25. RIP Terry

Thanks for sharing this personal story. That poor kid :cry:

[noonwitch]

27. I had a friend in HS who killed himself, but he didn't take a bunch of people with him

He was teased and mistreated by other kids, had been rejected by a girl he had a crush on and so forth. His father was disappointed in him because he was musically talented and not athletically gifted.

He chose to kill himself, not the people who had been cruel to him, whether it was his parents or other kids at school.

He had tried once to kill himself by stealing a car and crashing it out on a rural road just south of town. He almost died, but was saved by the paramedics at the scene. A few months later, he took his dad's handgun and shot himself in the head.

I don't blame guns, I blame his parents for keeping a gun in an unlocked drawer, knowing that their kid was suicidal. They also opted to send him to their minister instead of a shrink for ongoing counseling-he needed both. The way the parents treated him prior to his first attempt in the car was awful. He and his little sister stayed with us while the parents were in Hawaii-he stayed with us for a week after the parents came back, because when his parents came to get them, he wouldn't leave.

I felt guilty about his death for years-I was a couple of years older than him and felt like I should have been able to do more for him. I also had babysat for he and his sister when they were younger.

[nicknameless]

28. The biggest online resource re: bullying

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x715933

[Blue Diadem]

29. I truly hope there is a heaven, especially for the tortured souls like

Terry. Those who are born and never have a chance due to life circumstance, illness, what others heap upon them.

RIP Terry.

[treestar]

30. What I don't understand is the bullies.

Does it make them feel better about themselves? Do their parents condone it? Why do they have to hurt other people to feel good about themselves?

[mdmc]

32. yes to all

the bullies are also parents sometimes...

[Pacifist Patriot]

34. Not really. Sometimes. Reasons vary, but...

I'm going to guess that in general any elevating feelings are temporary. That's why bullying is a repetitive behavior. High, let down, high, let down, etc. I think bullies have to have an incredibly low self-esteem. Any elevation in esteem is false and temporary. Hence the behavior is repeated, much like a drug high.

Who knows. Low self-esteem could be heredity. Not literally in the genes, but behaviorally.

I really don't know. It's certainly a social phenomenon that deserves study and response.