Thanksgiving: Disgrace to turkeys, PETA's ad rejected by NBC

[The Straight Story]

Thanksgiving can be the scariest time of year if you're a turkey. More than 45 million of these fascinating birds are killed to disgrace Thanksgiving tables each year.

In hopes of empowering kids everywhere to speak out as their families adorn their Thanksgiving tables with dead birds, PETA offers its Thanskgiving ad, 'Grace.' In the ad, you hear from one straightforward little girl as she tells it exactly like it is for turkeys who are killed for holiday meals when asked to say grace around her family's dinner table.

Despite the fact that it contains nothing graphic, NBC has rejected the ad, which was submitted to air during the iconic Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

http://www.peta.org/FeatureGrace.asp

[Better Today]

1. I hate ads wherein they try to suggest that a child is wise enough to preach to adults.

[SidDithers]

8. +1...nt

Sid

[mitchum]

21. "The only information that an adult should solicit from a child is...

Is there room in the toe?" Florence King

[JonQ]

22. There's a good chance that for the folks at PETA

their children *are* the ones doing the heavy thinking in the family.

[HuckleB]

79. +1

[Political Heretic]

159. I couldn't agree more.

[VMI Dem]

2. I will add ham to the Thanksgiving menu.

In honor of PETA.

[Renew Deal]

3. lol

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

5. And oyster dressing and maybe a small meatloaf

:)

[Hekate]

9. Sea kittens, too

Holy cow

[KatyMan]

7. That's a classy move..

:D

[The Straight Story]

10. I like to smoke my turkey, or smoke with it

:evilgrin:

[Renew Deal]

16. lol

:rofl:

[KatyMan]

143. Depends on what the turkey is smoking

I willingly and luckily quit smoking tobacco, but certain other things I unwillingly quit, and wouldn't mind a reunion... :D

[YOY]

4. Oh a PETA thread...that'll lighten up the 'cheerleaders' versus 'haters' mood here.

:popcorn:

Gotta K&R it for visability!

[Ignis]

35. Don't be such a cheerleader for haters, hater!

:P

I'll kick off the ball: "<Insert Group Here> sucks!"

[YOY]

62. Oh come on T. I get called both here on a daily basis. I'm getting schizophrenic.

And todays group is: Albanian midget necrophiliac leather fetishists against Sudanese on Sudanese violence suck!!!

[dysfunctional press]

6. "Thanksgiving can be the scariest time of year if you're a turkey..."

are turkeys now somehow aware of thanksgiving and when it falls on the calendar...? :shrug:

[JonQ]

25. Domesticated turkeys don't really seem aware of much

They're just barely one step above the pumpkin pie when it comes to intelligence.

[katkat]

124. domestic/wild turkeys

Ben Franklin:

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

"With all this Injustice, he is never in good Case but like those among Men who live by Sharping & Robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank Coward: The little King Bird not bigger than a Sparrow attacks him boldly and drives him out of the District. He is therefore by no means a proper Emblem for the brave and honest Cincinnati of America who have driven all the King birds from our Country . . .

"I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America . . . He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on."

[Zhade]

147. Sounds exactly like this country, actually.

NT!

[JonQ]

154. That's why I specified domestic

rather than wild, which most people eat.

[Zomby Woof]

11. Bonus Popcorn Time!

A PETA thread the day before Thanksgiving! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Flames and tears are comin'! :cry:

[YOY]

14. Totally!

Give this one a K&R so we can keep the fun alive!

[Renew Deal]

17. It's going to be classy

I mean classic! :rofl:

[lpbk2713]

55. You betcha.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. Pass some

the butter and the rest of the goodies are over ---------->

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[kctim]

12. Its a freakin bird

and a dumb one at that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Actually wild turkeys are not that dumb

:-)

Just a note.

Now domestic ones... ah nothing like watching gobblers with open beak at the sky while it rains.

[Warren DeMontague]

144. Not only that, but they make killer bourbon.

[EOTE]

155. Made from only the wildest of turkeys.

Aged for at least 18 months in fine oak barrels, with extra gizzards added the final 3 months for that extra nuttiness you won't find in any ordinary old whiskey. That's the way my father did it and that's the way I do it. The right way. The American Way. Please enjoy responsibly.

[Warren DeMontague]

156. Yes. "Please enjoy responsibly"... that's my favorite part.

[tonysam]

13. PETA can kiss my omnivorous ass

It's nothing but an extremist organization which believes domesticated animals should not exist.

[superduperfarleft]

18. Oversimplification. n/t

[Ignis]

38. Untrue. PETA is not a strictly abolitionist organization.

PETA, like the HSUS and other AR groups, also works for animal welfare.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good hating.

Edit: Too, many, commas.

[Raineyb]

150. +1. I can't stand the sanctimonious jerks.

I'll eat my turkey and relish it.

[superduperfarleft]

15. PETA does this every year.

They make an ad they know won't get approved, it predictably gets rejected, then they get all the free publicity they originally wanted.

It got boring several years ago.

[grahamhgreen]

19. In the meantime, Obama will pardon the Thanksgiving turkey - AND FRY THE TROOPS!

[roughsatori]

160. It is sad that people are more upset about people who don't eat turkey than by our 2 senseless wars.

Pathetic.

[Johonny]

20. 45 million of these fascinating birds

I wonder how many would exist if we didn't raise them just to eat on Thanksgiving. Just sayin'.

[JonQ]

24. Substantially less

the best survival strategy any animal can employ is to be useful to humanity and possible to raise in captivity.

Also, I think they're stretching it to call these animals "fascinating".

[yawnmaster]

28. definitely a stretch. Fascinating compared to what? a chicken?

but perhaps some are easily fascinated?

[JonQ]

30. These are the people who think:

This:


Is equivalent to this:


So their judgment is suspect. Possibly due to protein deficiency.

[flvegan]

31. You think so?

The protein deficiency part, that is? Really?

[JonQ]

37. Nah, that was a joke

Although for some of the more extreme vegans dietary deficiencies are a major issue. It seems we were designed to eat meat some of the time.

[flvegan]

40. We extreme vegans thank you for your concern.

[JonQ]

44. I wasn't concerned

merely pointing that out. People can do whatever they want with their own bodies, no skin off my nose.

Although I do get annoyed when they try to push their beliefs in my face, like through commercials. Otherwise I don't care what people eat.

[LeftyMom]

68. How many vegans do you interact with on the average day?

Today I've gone to three exclusively vegan shops, spent the morning with several long term adult vegans of my acquaintance and of course my vegan kid was around, and mysteriously enough I haven't seen anybody who wasn't the picture of health. :shrug:

[superduperfarleft]

70. Give him a break, he's in Texas.

Any man who isn't pushing the 300 lb. mark and sporting a giant belt buckle, and any woman who isn't doused in makeup and has hair that's three-feet tall, they call that "malnourished."

[LeftyMom]

76. I'm just wondering how many vegans he meets at the Piggly Wiggly or Jim Bob's BBQ

or wherever it is he spends his spare time. You know, since he's an expert on vegans. :rofl:

[JonQ]

99. It is hard to be a vegan in Texas

What with us knowing about BBQ and spices and all.

I suppose in other places where the food is crap anyway it's easier to live off cardboard because, eh, what's the difference?

[superduperfarleft]

127. Like India? n/t

[JonQ]

131. You think indians are all vegan?

Sure. Tandoori chicken, saag chicken, lamb vindaloo, various spiced meatballs and pastries filled with meat.

Bad vegans, stop eating all that meat! Of course they are also big on the dairy side as well, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Of course the extent that they don't eat meat was largely a relic of being very densely populated. Producing animals requires more space and feed so often times it is cheaper to just eat grains, eventually they developed a religious basis for an economic reality (like the whole "don't eat your draft animals" became "cattle are sacred").

So I suppose if texas were much poorer, and had about 800 million more people we would probably eat less meat as well, but not abstain completely, much like the Indians.

[superduperfarleft]

133. Jesus fucking christ, this is like talking to a five-year-old.

I was commenting on your (trollish) assumption that vegan food tasting like cardboard, not claiming that Indians were vegan. :eyes:

[JonQ]

136. For the most part it does

Especially when they try to copy non-vegan food.

There are some foods that are just fine vegan/vegetarian. But when they foray in to turkey dinners, well then it gets terrible. Don't try to pretend tofu is meat. Treat it as tofu and it's fine, treat it as a delicious steak and you are setting yourself up for failure.

[JonQ]

98. Not very many

why do you ask?

[LeftyMom]

100. I was curious to know why you think vegans are unusually prone to dietary deficiencies.

I suspected you didn't have regular contact with any vegans, as if you did you would certainly know better.

[JonQ]

108. You must have missed the part where I said that was a joke

Although cutting all meat and dairy out of your diet does remove some of the best sources of dietary fatty and amino acids. They can be found elsewhere but it is very difficult. So accidentally malnourishing yourself on a restricted diet is easier than doing so on a more rounded and diverse diet.

[superduperfarleft]

32. And there are also people who think that Texas is even a remotely habitable state.

So to each their own, I guess.

[JonQ]

36. Must have touched a nerve

If someone is so sensitive about what they eat it's probably a sign deeper emotional issues.

Oh, and right now it's 64 degrees, perfectly clear skies with just a hint of a breeze.

Perfect.

[superduperfarleft]

49. I could care less what some Texan thinks of me.

I just figured that if you were going to be a dick, I'd take the opportunity to be one right back.

[JonQ]

51. Which states do you care

what the people from there think of you?

And I wasn't being a dick, I was being honest. Which makes PETA look bad. I would suggest that the problem them is with PETA, not me for pointing out their absurdities.

[superduperfarleft]

64. There's plenty wrong with PETA.

But making a dig at people who don't eat meat was completely unnecessary and cheapened any attempt at a point you were trying to make.

[JonQ]

101. Not that I did that or anything

and you seem to be oversensitive about your dietary choices.

And the "dig" was in response to them making a TV making a "dig" on people who do eat meat. I notice you have selective outrage on this issue.

Vegans bitching about what others eat = awesome.
Those other people responding and making fun back = offensive and rude.

Gotcha.

[katkat]

126. JonQ

Not to mention the little matter of omnis trashing the environment.

[Zhade]

148. Yeah, because sanctimonious asshole vegans don't do that too.

NT!

[Zomby Woof]

81. And belittling someone's dietary choices helps how?

You say "it's no skin off my nose" which choices others make for their diets, yet if that were so, you wouldn't take the trouble to belittle and mock vegans or vegetarians with pictures comparing Tofurkey to Turkey, and claiming vegans suffer from protein deficiencies and other absurdities.

Whether someone is "sensitive" or not, that doesn't absolve you of your complicity in stirring up shit by trying to prod and provoke the said "sensitive" people into a debate. "Deeper emotional issues". Like projection, perhaps?

You've picked a lot of skin off your nose in this thread. If you truly lived up to that cliché, you wouldn't have posted anything derogatory, mocking, emotionally stunted, and intellectually dead on arrival.

As an omnivore myself, I say live and let live. If I feel someone - vegan, vegetarian, or otherwise - is preaching to me, I can address them on an individual basis without libeling an entire group of people. Certainly, preaching back with the argumentative equivalent of "nanny nanny boo-boo" isn't a rebuttal. It's just butt-headed.

Just a matter of time before someone weighs in with "I am having TWO turkeys tomorrow, and FIVE juicy steaks tonight!" That's not an argument in defense of omnivorous choices, it's the taunt of the childish and uncreative.

I have seen plenty of boorish behavior coming from all sides of this issue, but when someone calls you on your bullshit, don't feign innocence. Go sell stupid someplace else.

Edit: typos and redundancies removed.

[flvegan]

90. Wow.

:applause:

[Zomby Woof]

92. I shouldn't have put down my popcorn

It always leads to trouble... :hide:

[flvegan]

93. !

:rofl:

[Zomby Woof]

94. Allow Me To Appeal To Your Reasonableness And Rationality

It's:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[flvegan]

95. Drat!

I keep forgetting the required number of :rofl: smileys and the caps.

Won't happen again.

:rofl:

[JonQ]

103. You didn't read the post did you?

This was all in response to a bunch of vegetarians making an ad attempting to guilt people in to not eating meat.

So my comment was in response to people sticking their nose in to my business (or at least attempting to).

I did not, for instance, start an original thread about how awful I think vegans are. I responded instead to a newstory about douchy vegans by mocking them.

See the difference?

[Ignis]

43. "These people" -- what a giveaway

You know how "those people" are. :eyes: Some people say those people are all the same!

Also, don't let real nutritional info get in the way of a good hating, but:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=231x13102

[JonQ]

46. I said:

"these are the people" rather than "these people" as you claim. Do you have a learning disability?

[Ignis]

53. "Do you have a learning disability?"

Yes, I can't seem to learn some people just enjoy acting like assholes to other DUers.

Don't forget to make fun of diabetics for their kooky diets, too! It's a real belly-laugh, hyuck hyuck hyuck.

Why can't everyone just be normal, and eat what normal people eat, right?

[JonQ]

56. I asked so that

I wouldn't feel bad later for ridiculing you if it turns out you can't help being the way you are. But since it's a choice . . .

"Why can't everyone just be normal, and eat what normal people eat, right?"

Or eat whatever you want, and simply not feel the need to be all holierthanthou about it, and try to push it in to other peoples faces and make them feel guilty for not acting as you do? You know, the type of behavior this article was about and that I was responding to.

So to recap: being a vegan = I don't care.
being a vegan and insisting I also be one, or else you'll label me as evil = I do care, a little.

[HuckleB]

105. Just go with "Don't give a rat's arse at all."

That's what I try to do. I'm not very good at it, though.

[HuckleB]

104. How is that worse than what you did to the poster in question?

You rewrote the statement so you could attack.

To me, that seems like an asshole kind of thing to do.

[HuckleB]

102. You're criticism of that post is very disingenuous.

You put words in the proverbial mouth of the poster, so you could go off on that poster.

I've had this done to me too often the past couple days.

Please refrain from such tactics.

[Harry Monroe]

114. What the hell is that in the top photo?

Looks like a huge turd! Is that supposed to be food or something?

[JonQ]

120. Tofurky

it's just as good as the real thing and guilt-free!

[superduperfarleft]

121. Actually, tofurkey is quite good.

It's not just a glob of tofu painted brown, it's got sort of a grain-meat texture. I much prefer Field Roast, though.

[JonQ]

122. You should ask yourself

if scientists (yes that thing was made in a lab) are going to such extraordinary lengths to reproduce the taste, texture and smell of the real thing and they are barely close (if you're starving, drunk and blindfolded you might mistake it for some kind of bird) why not just go with the real thing?

[superduperfarleft]

125. It doesn't taste or feel anything like the "real thing." Why should it have to?

Eastern cultures have eaten grain meats for hundreds of years, and just because my meals don't consist of a big slab of meat and a couple of wilted vegetable sides, that doesn't mean I'm not eating "real food." You should get out more.

As for the lab comment, you're again showing your ignorance. My wife makes tofu and seitan in our own kitchen on pretty much a weekly basis.

[JonQ]

129. So you're saying tofurky

was not created to imitate real turkey?

I, and the creators of tofurky will have to disagree, from their website:
Made from a revolutionary tofu-wheat protein blend, our famous Tofurky® Roast is known for its incredible, turkey-like texture and flavor. Stuffed with wild rice and whole wheat bread crumb stuffing, this roast carves and cuts just like turkey but without the bones.

So what were you saying again?

Eating veggies isn't the issue. Attempting to grind, process, and distort veggies until they are meat so you can pretend you are getting the real thing strikes me as . . . well odd. There are plenty of dishes that don't have meat as a main ingredient or at all, that requires no pretending. It strikes me as a recovering alcoholic going to the bar, ordering a virgin margarita and pretending it has alcohol in it. I guess if that's what you need to do, but it just seems sad to me.

[superduperfarleft]

132. I'm starting to think you're just trolling now.

I could care less what the makers of tofurkey say, trust me, it tastes nothing like it, the texture is nothing like it, and it doesn't "cut" anything like it.

And I've already explained that grain meats are not anymore processed or "distorted" than a loaf of bread, and you're ascribing motivations for eating them that aren't necessarily universal. Basically, you're deliberately misinterpreting what I said. I guess if that's what you need to do, but it just seems sad to me or . . . well odd.

[JonQ]

137. So in response to my posting a picture

of a tofurkey, and making repeated references to how awful tofurkey is, you've coming to the conclusion that I am discussing something completely different than tofurkey?

"I could care less what the makers of tofurkey say, trust me, it tastes nothing like it, the texture is nothing like it, and it doesn't "cut" anything like it."

My point exactly. The makers have stated it is intended to reproduce real turkey, you and I agree that it tastes nothing like real turkey. And somehow you see this as refuting my point that it was created to mimic real turkey and did a bad job of it.

Calling me a troll is more than a little projection on your part.


I have to ask, do you have a point with all this or are you just being argumentative? Because so far you've done nothing but verify everything I've said.

[superduperfarleft]

138. Sure. You win. Bye. n/t

[JonQ]

139. Thank you, you were wrong to try to argue this one

I'm glad you saw that.

Now have a happy thanksgiving!

[Zhade]

149. "Eastern cultures have eaten grain meats for hundreds of years"

Really? What are some of them? I'm honestly curious.

[superduperfarleft]

153. Sure you are. n/t

[JonQ]

23. Fine, you win PETA, I will switch from the noble turkey

to tortured baby seal (marinated in it's own tears) this year.

Happy now?

[yawnmaster]

26. None of the turkeys that I eat are suffering in any way. eom

[Ignis]

45. Well, hopefully they're dead first. (nt)

[yawnmaster]

58. exactly. eom

[berni_mccoy]

27. The ad is inappropriate in it's attempt to play children against their parents.

[Ignis]

47. Unlike every toy commercial ever? (nt)

[HuckleB]

80. One is about creating a want, the other is about sowing ugliness on a family holiday.

Sorry, but PETA is full of it.

[Zhade]

151. It's far more inappropriate in how it LIES. Turkeys don't "fear" Thanksgiving.

They can't -- they're not even cognizant of the future (or anything else)!

[Blue For You]

29. Poor turkeys can't get a break.

[flvegan]

33. Terrorists trying to take my turkey dinner AND my dog away!

:shakesfist:

:rofl:

Just thought I'd get it over with.

[superduperfarleft]

34. Yeah, but have you seen that website called petakillsanimals?

ZOMG PETA totally kills animals!!!

[flvegan]

39. I heard on DU that PETA was blackops for the meat industry.

Or was that psychops. I don't know. Some ops thing actually working against animal rights or welfare.

Right wing shills, Ingrid and her crew.

[JonQ]

52. They do

PETA run shelters have one of the highest kill rates in the country.

[Ignis]

54. Without quoting Rick Berman, WHY is that, exactly? (nt)

[JonQ]

57. Mostly the expenses due to keeping them alive

I have no complaints with euthanizing animals.

But it is hypocritical for a group that believes animals=humans to do so. Unless they likewise advocate euthanizing people who get too expensive or sick without their consent.

[superduperfarleft]

66. For starters, PETA doesn't run shelters.

You'll get no argument from me on the hypocrisy of PETA's stance on euthanasia, but you're missing quite a bit of context in your attempt to quote the Center for Consumer Freedom. You've heard of shelters of last resort? PETA, oftentimes, is the shelter of last last resort. There's naturally going to be a much higher kill rate when no-kill shelters turn hordes of animals away, and PETA is often sought out solely because a situation is so bad that no one else will deal with (for instance, wrecks on the highway involving pigs on the way to slaughter).

And despite what Penn & Teller would have you believe (two other favorites of your crowd), there's no giant freezer full of dead cats and dogs in PETA's HQ, either.

[JonQ]

106. I know they often get animals that are badly off

but if they think animals are people then they would be obligated to care for them.

"And despite what Penn & Teller would have you believe (two other favorites of your crowd), there's no giant freezer full of dead cats and dogs in PETA's HQ, either."

Do you deny that they kill large numbers of animals? Yes or no please.

[superduperfarleft]

123. Yes, of course I don't deny that they have large numbers of animals euthanized.

I was trying to explain that there's a bit more of a gray area than just "ZOMG PETA KILLS ANIMALZ!!!"

And I also don't deny their hypocrisy on the issue. But as is typical of the incurious on this site, trying to explain something automatically means I must be BFFs with Ingrid. :eyes:

[JonQ]

135. So my statement

that they have one of the highest kill rates out there, is wrong how? You've essentially argued in a large circle back to the starting point, verifying my original argument. In a roundabout way you have argued that PETA A) kills more animals than other groups and B) is hypocritical for doing so.

So I have to ask, other than attention, what is your goal here (besides proving me right)?

"But as is typical of the incurious on this site, trying to explain something automatically means I must be BFFs with Ingrid. :eyes:"

You mean kinda like if you say PETA is ever wrong on any issue you are automatically BFFs with big meat producing corporations? I'll take your outrage more seriously when I see you denounce that same tact from the other side (that hasn't been used against you actually, you are employing a strawman).

[flvegan]

67. Absolutely clueless. n/t

[JonQ]

107. To say that you would need to point out how I was wrong

and provide evidence that PETA never euthanizes animals.

Good luck with that.

[flvegan]

112. How many words did you intend to put in my mouth?

You, oh desperate one, claimed that PETA puts animals down due to expenses, which, like I suggested means that you are completely clueless about it.

PETA does euthanize animals and has never claimed that they don't. As another DUer above suggested, PETA operates as a "shelter" of absolute last resort, taking in animals that would otherwise be put down by a bullet or some other cruel means. Rather than do that, they provide a humane end. Having served on the BOD of a shelter that had that unwelcome task, I've spent a lot of time around that. As someone that runs his own animal rescue, I've had to do that myself. And if that means that some douchebag on the internet feels free to call me a hypocrite, that's okay. Because I'm not the douchebag.

Good luck with that.

[JonQ]

119. So you don't deny they euthanize animals

and in large numbers.

And they do it because they animals they recieve are in such poor shape that it would be very difficult (read expensive) to keep them alive.

So I was right, and you are just being childish and argumentative.


Got it.

[Zomby Woof]

96. Or to quote Chris Berman

He!... Could!... Go! ... All! ... The ... Way!!

[Greyhound]

41. If only Ben Franklin had got his way on this.

Eating Turkeys wold be a crime as they would be our national bird.

[Harry Monroe]

115. And then would we be eating eagles at Thanksgiving?

[Sheepshank]

42. PETA-mophrodites

do nothing all day long, but look for qualified substitutes for animal protiens in their diet. I prefer the short cut method tried and true. I go for sea kittens or any one of a number of quacking, gobbling, waddling, mooing, clucking variety of protein.

BTW...how this vegan diet thing all mesh with the studies that tomatoes scream when they are plucked from the vine and scream while being sliced?

[Ignis]

48. Welcome to DU. You're a fine addition.

Nah, I'm just kidding.

[superduperfarleft]

50. Wow, so much dumb in one post. Congrats. n/t

[Sheepshank]

59. must be a tomatoe eater in denial n/t

[superduperfarleft]

65. Lulz. "Tomatoe."

Dan Quayle, is that you?

[Sheepshank]

61. never mind n/t

[dysfunctional press]

60. it's okay- tomatoes don't have a face.

their pain is irrelevant.

[kixat2550]

63. God, I fucking hate PETA. Idiots

[HuckleB]

83. +1

[anonymous171]

69. Better than ham. Pigs are far more intelligent and self-aware. nt

[superduperfarleft]

71. You know what's even less intelligent? Terri Schiavo.

After all, if we're rating who can be members of the moral community based simply on "intelligence," we should've saved the turkeys and deep-fried ol' Terri.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. By that logic, most of the republican party should be on the menu.

You want a Boehner burger? Yuk.

[superduperfarleft]

74. Too much spray tan probably leeched into the meat. n/t

[anonymous171]

73. Not just intelligence, Self-awareness should also be a factor.

Also Humans by virtue of their humanity always have moral rights, no matter their intelligence.

[superduperfarleft]

75. "By virtue of their humanity..."

What, did you get that out of the Bible? Sounds like something my grandmother would say.

[anonymous171]

77. I'm a speciesist.

Humans are superior to animals, and so should receive higher consideration and better rights because of that.

[superduperfarleft]

78. At least you admit it.

Doesn't make it any more rational than a racist, a sexist, or somebody who hates ginger kids, but at least you're honest.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. I'll admit it, too. And maybe in a complete, navel-gazing vacuum, it isn't any "more rational"

And perhaps the adopting of a strict 'un-speciesist' postion, like the person in another thread who told me that it might be "difficult, but moral consistency requires that we let sick children die rather than sacrifice the lives of lab rats to save them" is more "rational"....

Hmmm. Maybe so, but this speciesist thinks it's the rational position of a flaming asshole who spends way too much time living in a fucking bubble.

[superduperfarleft]

84. So you agree with me that it's irrational, then you call me a flaming asshole.

(in bolded text, don't worry, I noticed)

And yet someone upthread said that I might have emotional issues. Hookay...

[Warren DeMontague]

86. No, I will happily call anyone who thinks sick kids should die instead of lab rats that.

Happily.

Edit: As for "rational", rationality doesn't enter into it. Your argument could just as well be used by anti-choicers.

You want to say that not treating a chicken like a human being is the same thing as not treating a human being the same as a human being. Rational is in the eye of the beholder, here.

[superduperfarleft]

87. Noted.

edit: meh I'm bored with this. I like having discussions with people that I may disagree with, but don't come off as flaming assholes the minute they reply to me. Go bother someone else.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Did you read the post you were responding to?

I value the life of human children; sick, healthy, all of 'em- WAY higher than the life of a lab rat. Would I let a lab rat die to save a sick child? Yes. Would I let 100? Yes. 1,000? Yes. 10, 20, 100,000? Yep.

That's the moral question, smart guy. Now, explain to me why it's more "rational" to say "heavens, think of the lab rats" and let kids die.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. And it doesn't make it any less rational than anti-choice nuts who want to give sperms rights. nt

[JonQ]

140. I would say if anything

a fetus should have more rights than an animal. At least it has human DNA, and is exactly as self-aware and sentiment as most of the animals out there.

On the right they argue for the fetus being human and they look like fools.

On the left they argue for jellyfish being human and they look like fools.

[JonQ]

109. It seems like anyone who didn't view humans as superior

and believed that one human life was equal to one animal (any animal, can't be picky) would immediately be forced to kill himself out of guilt.

Even a strict vegan requires the deaths of thousands of animals every year to survive (farming kills a great number of rodents, insect pests and displaces wildlife). If my life required the deaths of thousand of humans to continue I would kill myself, for their sake.

So people who claim that human life = animal life either A) are evil bastards because they don't care how many "people" die to keep them alive, or B) lying.

[JanMichael]

88. What a wonderful "free press" we have here in Amerika!

By the way Guy James had a successful radio program on the air in SW Florida and was booted because he wasn't a conservative! To hell with the callers and ratings.

Free press my ass.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. Larry Flynt can't run porn ads, either.

Just sayin'.

[JanMichael]

97. If they made actual movies now I'd care.

They don't though so I don't.

Reference Boogie Nights...

[JonQ]

110. Press =! commercial air time

For instance, I have yet to receive any commercial time for my beliefs.

Free press also doesn't mean you are entitled to a forum at someone elses expense.

[JanMichael]

111. Free Press should mean equal access and exposure.

For ALL major important and impacting events and policies. Such as the Fairness Doctrine, which was destroyed by Reagan but when in place gave some debate to almost any issue. Although not wide enough for me.

It was set up to include even arrogant self centered idiots who couldn't see the forest from themselves.

And I should add as an atheist and socialist there's very very little advertising allowed for the issues I believe in or don't believe in.

Its all MONEY MONEY MONEY. Sure that's fun when repeated in a pop song but does shit for those without.

And I should finish with a disclaimer that while I push for the poor and un (under) employed, and those stupid animals, I am with good job and benefits.

[dem629]

130. Then it wouldn't be free.

If you're going to have the government dictate what goes on the air and what doesn't, there's no such thing as a free press.

Some countries do that. I like the way we do it.

[JonQ]

141. Sure thing, just a few questions

who decides what is "major important and impacting events and policies"?

Because you know, that could be used politically dontcha think?

And who is going to pay for it?

And what if you are denied by the new government run media, any air time. What is your recourse?

[TicketyBoo]

128. Do you watch Olbermann?

Have you heard him talk about free speech?

The same goes for freedom of the press. The press is protected from government intervention. Private companies can employ those of their choice, and do so.

It wasn't the government that shut down Guy James.

[Kaleva]

113. PETA's strategy advisor is probably some young child with an attitude.

What else could explain PETA's antics?

[Harry Monroe]

116. Hey PETA!! Shut the fuck up and pass me that drumstick!!

Oh yeah, I'm deep frying my turkey this year!! Gotta love it!!

[TicketyBoo]

134. The turkey is in the oven…

…and it smells scrumpdillyicious!

[usregimechange]

142. But they taste good.

Thought someone should list a counterpoint.

[Zhade]

145. Fucking liars -- you have to be able to think of the future to feel apprehension.

I'm enjoying my turkey as I read this. Fuck PETA and its sickophants (intentional sic)!

[TicketyBoo]

146. Mine tasted just as good

as it smelled, and I am now about to relax in a tryptophan-induced nap.

[mamaleah]

152. Ahhh PETA trying to use kids just like whackjob anti-choicers do.

Nothing more disgusting than seeing some poor 7 year old outside of PP. However, PETA joined the ranks of the anti-choicers by 1) targeting kids and 2)attempting to use kids to sell their message.

Stay classy, PETA.

[Warren DeMontague]

157. PETA's also got that black and white, false moral equivalency thing DOWN, just like anti-choicers.

Remember,

these




are EXACTLT THE SAME AS these







just like this:




is EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS this:

[Ikonoklast]

158. Pardon me, kind sir, is this the way to the PETA thread?

Thank you ever so much.