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Why Aren't the Democrats Framing the Debate?

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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:21 AM
Original message
Why Aren't the Democrats Framing the Debate?
Edited on Mon Nov-23-09 07:30 AM by louis c
Here's my take. The facts are on our side and we're losing the debate in the public forum. Please let me detail a few of the issues that concern me.

On health care: every time a Republican office holder or critic of the public option says, "we can do better by letting the private insurance companies compete in the market place, including over state lines" why don't we reply "then you're in favor of repealing the anti-trust exemption on the insurance industry?"

On the economy: Why aren't the actual words of George W. Bush and Hank Paulson used to emphasize what a disaster we were looking at in the middle of September in 2008. That Capitalism was on the brink of collapse. How Democrats aided the then President to save this country, at our own political peril, because of the disastrous economic policies the Republicans had implemented. Instead of having pieces of shit asking "well, when does this economy become Obama's?" We should reply "I don't know, when did the economy in the thirties become FDR's". In other words, the Republicans own this disaster until we get them out of it


It was just 8 months ago, March of 2009 to be exact, that many ditto-heads and Fox News watchers were telling us that Obama was a disaster and cited as proof that the "stock market had dropped 2,000 points since he was elected". Remember that? Putting aside the fact that most of that drop was before he was Inaugurated, none of those assholes now point to the fact that the market has gained 50% since then. They wanted to blame Obama when he wasn't in office for the drop, but give him no credit for the increase when he is. This in not insignificant. Many working class Americans rely on their 401K's, and this increase will eventually increase people's confidence. We always fail to make them eat their words.

On the deficit: While the Republicans controlled the government, they got us into an ill advised war in Iraq. During their tenure, they called the war spending an "emergency" and used this accounting gimmick to keep that massive spending outside the budget, and therefore outside the deficit numbers. Obama has correctly included those numbers in the budget. Now we let those Republican assholes act like that extra spending is on our watch, and amounts to an increase. When am I going to hear this mentioned in main stream media? And why aren't Democrats singing this tune every time the deficit is used by the other side?

On unemployment: Those no good pieces of shit that ran this country into the ground for 8 years gave unemployment benefits for just 26 weeks to those who lost their jobs. Unemployment rates are dictated by those folks on those rolls. Now, a compassionate Democratic President and Congress, in the tradition of the FDR years, have extended benefits to as much as 96 weeks, meaning that no one has been dropped off the rolls since we took over. As a result, the rate will continue to increase, even though fewer Americans are losing their jobs now then under Bush. For example, the job loss during the last quarter of the Bush administration was 750,000 a month, now it is under 200,00 a month, yet the rate increases because we will not throw jobless workers on the street.

Why is a tax cut a tax cut when they do it, but spending when we do it? When those Republican Assholes cut taxes for the wealthy, they trumpeted their cause as letting American keep more of their own money. After all, you know how to spend your money better than Washington. Assholes. Now, one third of Obama's and the Democrat's stimulus package contains tax cuts for middle Americans, and the Republicans continue to refer to it as spending. For the first time since the Republicans repealed it in the eighties, the first $2,400 of unemployment benefits is not taxed. Everyone on unemployment got a $25 a week increase, and the aforementioned unemployment extensions. Every worker saw a cut in his payroll tax, about $18 a week for someone making $40K a year. There was a one time Social Security payment of $250 per person. A tax credit for first time home buyers. a tax credit to improve energy efficiency in your home. This is spending? giving money to the rich is OK, but helping out our middle class isn't?


Why aren't we framing the debate?

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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Infighting seems to be the word of the day for the dems.
Wasting time debating each other instead of letting the pubs have it with the truth. You made some very good points, thanks.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Dems always do this, Republicans know it and rely on it.
We can argue all we want, but we MUST get out and vote in 2010...argue again after.

mark
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INdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. We have two corporate political parties now.
Since the real Democrats have all but disappeared Democratic voters could stay home...
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Bullshit. We MUST get out the Democratic left to vote - don't give up on the process-
that meerly allows the corporations to win even more without any struggle at all.

Republicans KNOW many Democrats feel voting is useless, even stupid, and they RELY on us having low turnouts...one reason they were shocked at Obama's victory.

Argue and complain all you want, but VOTE!!!!!



mark
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I agree with you..(NT)
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-24-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Also all those kids who came out in droves for Obama.
We need to get them to vote in the mid-term. Supposedly they're a very civic-minded generation, so maybe they will. At any rate, do what you can to get them back in the booth.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. You need the media on your side to be able to frame the debate
and, other than a few people on MSNBC, we don't really have the media on our side.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why can't the Democrats being interviewed make these points?
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You mean Dems like Lieberman, Landriau, Lincoln, Nelson?
The ones that get on the air regularly?
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. I've seen others.
Like Reid, Reed, boxer and Frank.

The points i made are easy for the viewer to understand. Yet, our guys always get to analytical to the point of losing the viewer.
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly. You can watch CSpan and see strong words. But, if the media refuses
to air what they say, it frames the debate in public.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Your statement is certainly true ...... but it seems to me there are ways to counter that, too.
When one is a member of the party in power, one can use access - or the denial thereof - to control the message and the media, Obama not including Fox is a good example. What if the only place to see Democrats - and in particular, Democratic LEADERS - were on media platforms that didn't distort the message. Go on Maddow's show but not on Scarborough's, for example.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Exactly
Whatever Dems say does not get covered. Then DUers go on about how the Dems are doing nothing. Always letting the M$M yank their chain.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-24-09 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I just don't hear these obvious points made in public.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. are you stupid?
do you not realize the 2 party system is a scam? do you not understand that big biz owns and controls government and media? what part of this do you not get?
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Well, if that's all true
I might as well get off this site and join some fantasy football league.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. Health Insurance Corporations frame the debate for both sides
Bernie Sanders and Teddy Kennedy have framed the debate all it needs to be framed..

Corporations provide scripts for republicans and democrats to read. Take marching orders..
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. Poor leadership...
Sorry, I know it's not the popular opinion on this forum, but it's true.

The fact is that because of the "centrists" and "moderates" (and there's quotes around those because thare not either of those things except in the eyes of the beltway media) we are perceived as not being unified.

This is allowed to happen because these conserva-dems see more benefit and attention and fundraising and media appearances by being anti-dem positions and framing themselves as moderate and conservative.

There is nothing but benefit for them to do this because our democratic leadership presents no downside. No ramifications. No punishment. No removal of committe chairs, nothing. Not even the veiled threat of any of these things.

So rather than doing what should be done with a supermajority, a minority within our party is allowed to frame the debate, command the attention, and call the shots.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yes. Republicans have it ORGANIZED.
Edited on Mon Nov-23-09 09:05 AM by FormerDittoHead
Democrats run the party as they would have the country run, but they don't get it that it's an ADVERSARIAL SYSTEM.

Now take the Republicans.

First off, they have these 'think tanks' which, disguised as educational institutions, only put out right wing, cut taxes for the rich information.

Then they have financed money-losing newspapers such as the Weekly Standard and the Washington Times.

These were completely financed by the rich and pay for any number of people to write books, make appearances on talking head shows, etc.

The dialog and ideology that comes from the above is well coordinated and does not conflict. Any disagreements are quickly scrubbed.

Then the Republicans have structured their party from the top down. There are no "RINO's". Maybe sometimes we'll flip one of them because if they didn't vote our way they'd get voted out next election. But look at how they vote versus how WE vote, and that completes the picture.

There's no way our COUNTRY could run that way, but our PARTY *COULD* run that way, or at least borrow some of those things.

on edit:

Too bad for the Republicans it's all based upon lies.
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. One reason is that the media won't allow Dems to frame the debate.
And another reason is that Dems are so into truthiness, they dn't know how to frame their positions to "mislead" the public to the truth.
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's because the Dems don't really like radical change in favor of ordinary Americans
Edited on Mon Nov-23-09 08:13 AM by Threedifferentones
They like making money, just like repubs. They take money from many of the same sources as repubs. And, they like to jerk progressives' chains around when they need our support, and then lament how the repubs always force them to be centrist when it's time for action.

In that sense, I am beginning to feel like a member of the religious right, being yanked out to every election by agents of republicans who only pretend to give a shit about my causes.

The two party system feels more like one party every day...

If Dems framed the debate as you suggest, more Americans would probably understand that 1% or so of this country is fucking us over. Unfortunately, that 1% controls and accounts for the congressional Dems just as it does Repubs.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. We have 54 votes in the senate for health care
Right wing Dems make up the other 6 votes. Our voice is there, but we need popular support to get over the hump.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because they might actually have to walk their talk if they did. nt
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. the capitalists collaborate in mysterious ways.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-23-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. because we never do .. we wait to see what right wingers are sayin' and then we
play defense..:(

of course right wingers are given endless amounts of airtime to blather on and on, and when a dem is allowed on the air, it's only to rebut what's been said..and to do it while being interrupted every 7 seconds by the 2 or 3 right wingers who are always there to counter any argument.

It's why even when we have a majority, we are still being dragged around like a prize bull being led around a show ring by an 8 yr old..
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-24-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. That's like asking why I'm not solving algebraic equations.
Because I'm just plain terrible at it.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-24-09 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
28. Do they ever? If so, I missed it.
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